NY Top Court Says Lap Dance Isn't Art, Is Taxable
Source: NY Times
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) A sharply divided court in New York says lap dances don't promote culture in a community the way ballet or other artistic endeavors do, and so shouldn't get a tax break.
The state's top court split 4 to 3. Dissenting justices conclude there's no distinction in state law between "highbrow dance and lowbrow dance," so the case raises "significant constitutional problems."
Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/10/23/us/ap-us-lap-dance-taxes.html?hp&_r=0
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)HankyDub
(246 posts)TrogL
(32,828 posts)My boyfriend would kill me.
Trillo
(9,154 posts)I'd go look it up and spend half the day trying to figure it out, but I've got other things to do.
TrogL
(32,828 posts)If you pay her to stay long enough, orgasm may result.
No, haven't been there, done that.
ret5hd
(22,502 posts)If this was something rich people gave poor people, there would be a tax break for it.
HankyDub
(246 posts)Presumably rich people don't give lap dances because no one performing a lap dance performs it because it expresses their creativity.
Whoops, you just admitted that lap dancing is a purely commercial enterprise done to sexually titillate the customer. No one performs lap dances just for the love of the artform.
Only poor people do lots of jobs, are those all to be declared "art" as well?
Thus, lad dancing is just like any other work and the revenues derived should certainly be taxed.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)and this is a silly post. Ballet is for everyone. Of course at the higher levels it takes years and years of training and daily classes ( unlike lap dancers).
Oh, and it cost less to go to a ballet than it does to a strip club.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)A small set of empowered, wealthy people get to decide what "culture" is and who gets to define it.
We can make silly jokes about the fringe of the sex trade without looking at the deeper issues. But that is a very slippery slope. Just because some one does (or makes) art badly or without training that does not disqualify them from being artists.
Because if that mindset is adopted wholesale we miss out on future Impressionists who, in the past, were laughed at in the earliest exhibitions of their work.
Future Martha Grahams would also be off the table. Is that really dance? A bunch of people writhing about the stage all over each other? How is that not pornographic?
Regardless of costs, regardless of social acceptability, to define the making of art from a governmental stance is to invite the destruction of creativity.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)Martha Graham's work is/was based on rigorous training.
I'm sorry but there is such a thing as high art, and if this Okie can appreciate it, then it is available to all.
Lap dancing is never going to be considered art no matter how much lipstick you put on it.
Wealthy people are not the only people who attend cultural events. Look, my sister is a famous choreographer in NYC.
Her name was not built by the wealthy, but by dance lovers of every strata.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)Then neither are any of these people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_autodidacts
Wait.. that's not true.. if they fit YOUR definition of High Art, then they are artists... if they don't fit YOUR definition of High Art then they aren't
Do you see the problem here?
Tell me YOUR definition of "High Art". Tell me how I can suss out which artist practice this elite form and where the cut off is.
My guess is it'll end up sounding like Justice Potter Stewart's definition of obscenity: I'll know it when I see it.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)lap dancing is not art. It never will be because compared to real dance, it takes very little skill and training.
Call me a snob, but I know the dedication, pain and sacrifice it takes to be in the dance world.
I'm done.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)You can ignore anything I say. That does not invalidate my point.
Your sister, the famous choreographer is not one of the people deciding this case. She has very little power in how the government or the courts decide to define "art".
And this is the core of my point. What if... what if that same court decides that ballet is not an art form because... reason X? What if they decide modern dance is not art?
It won't matter what your sister does or how much training or years of experience she has, her work will be considered invalid. A bunch of people who don't "know the dedication, pain and sacrifice it takes to be in the dance world" are deciding who gets to make art and who doesn't, who is truly an artist and who isn't.
And frankly that should scare the crap out of you.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)other is not. It is based on a personal judgement call centered around the individual prejudices of the judges.
Just pray that they never decide something you like isn't sufficiently cultural to be accepted.
HankyDub
(246 posts)All this hyperventilating about lap dancing.
Lap dancing is a purely commercial enterprise. It's perfectly reasonable to tax strip clubs and their patrons for participating in it. Putting lap dancing on par with ballet is a wild stretch. The persons who participate in this "artform" are doing it solely for the money, not for their artistic passion.
If we were talking about making strip clubs or lap dancing illegal, I wouldn't support that. We are talking about taxing a legitimate commercial enterprise.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)it's about the dangerous trend of defining acceptable art and unacceptable art.
HankyDub
(246 posts)the issue is the distopian slippery slope.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)If the notion that adults are consenting to be naked for the enjoyment of other adults is offensive and should be penalized there are plenty of countries that entirely agree.
I just don't want this country to become one of those.
HankyDub
(246 posts)I didn't characterize lap dancing or strippers in a negative way. More power to 'em.
I'm just saying that they are engaged in a purely commercial enterprise and it is perfectly legitimate to tax their income, just as any other kind of worker. That's not "penalizing" lap dancing, it's just taxation--the same kind I pay on my wages.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)lap dances are solely for the purpose of sexually arousing the one receiving the lap dance in direct exchange for money.
That cant' be said for disciplines like ballet, tap, etc. One pays the entire company, the rental of the venue, the costumes, the choreographer, the orchestra, promotion and the production office which runs the dance company.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)what is running through their minds. I will suggest that they probably don't care whether the viewer is aroused or not as long as they get their money. Do you think they care whether the guy is aroused or not?
So, if a guy with erectile dysfunction gets a lap dance and the guy fails to achieve tumescence does the lap dancer get paid? Yes. Therefore, it has nothing to do with physical arousal.
This brings us to another mind reading exercise. If the above scenario is true, then we have to admit that sexual arousal is also a mental process. If we admit it is a mental process then we can't definitively rule out the idea that some people watching ballet or modern dance find it sexually arousing.
And that brings us back to square one.
You are making value judgements based on your perception of how the world works.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)so whatever...
and I am well within my rights to make and articulate my judgements, s0n. You can use that ignore button if you dont' like it.
HankyDub
(246 posts)lap dancing has nothing to do with physical arousal.
And dogs can talk.
rug
(82,333 posts)eggplant
(4,199 posts)TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)happyslug
(14,779 posts)This memorandum is uncorrected and subject to revision before
publication in the New York Reports.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
No. 157
In the Matter of 677 New Loudon
Corporation, &c.,
Appellant,
v.
State of New York Tax Appeals
Tribunal et al.,
Respondents.
W. Andrew McCullough, for appellant.
Robert M. Goldfarb, for respondents.
CMSG Restaurant Group LLC, amicus curiae.
MEMORANDUM:
The judgment of the Appellate Division should be affirmed, with costs.
Petitioner, the operator of an adult "juice bar" in Latham, New York, contends that the admission charges and private dance performance fees it collects from patrons are exempt from state sales and use taxes. We agree with the Appellate Division
that petitioner failed to meet its burden of proof that a tax exemption applies to those charges.
To begin, New York State collects taxes from a wide variety of entertainment and amusement venues. In particular, the Tax Law imposes a sales tax on "[a]ny admission charge" in excess of ten cents for the use of "any place of amusement in the state" (Tax Law § 1105 [f] [1]). The Legislature expansively defined places of amusement that are subject to this tax to include "any place where any facilities for entertainment, amusement, or sports are provided" (Tax Law § 1101 [d] [10]).
The tax, therefore, applies to a vast array of entertainment including attendances at sporting events, such as baseball, basketball or football games, collegiate athletic events, stock car races, carnivals and fairs, amusement parks, rodeos, zoos, horse shows, arcades, variety shows, magic performances, ice shows, aquatic events, and animal acts (see 20 NYCRR 527.10). Plainly, no specific type of recreation is singled out for taxation.
However, with the evident purpose of promoting cultural and artistic performances in local communities, the Legislature created an exemption that excluded from taxation admission charges for a discrete form of entertainment - "dramatic or musical arts performances" (Tax Law § 1105 [f] [1]). In this case, petitioner claims, and the dissent agrees, that the Legislature intended to give the adult entertainment business a tax break because the exotic stage and couch dances that are featured at the premises qualify as musical arts performances, rather than as more generalized amusement or entertainment activities that fall within the broad sweep of the tax. We disagree.
It is well established that a taxpayer bears the burden of proving any exemption from taxation (see Matter of Grace v New York State Tax Commn., 37 NY2d 193,195[1975]). "Furthermore, in construing a tax exemption statute, the well-settled rule is that 'f ambiguity or uncertainty occurs, all doubt must be resolved
against the exemption'" (Matter of Charter Dev. Co., L.L.C. v City of Buffalo, 6 NY3d 578, 582 [2006]). This is so because "an exemption is not a matter of right, but is allowed only as a matter of legislative grace" (id.). Thus, a determination by the
Tax Appeals Tribunal that a taxpayer does not qualify for a tax exemption should not be disturbed "unless shown to be erroneous, arbitrary or capricious" (id. at 195-196).
In order for petitioner to be entitled to the exclusion or "dramatic or musical arts performances", it was required to prove that the fees constituted admission charges for performances that were dance routines qualifying as choreographed performances. Petitioner failed to meet this burden as it related to the fees collected for the performances in so-called "private rooms"; none of the evidence presented depicted such performances and petitioner's expert's opinion was not based on any personal knowledge or observation of "private" dances that happened at petitioner's club. Thus, the Appellate Division properly concluded that the activities conducted in the private rooms failed to qualify for the exemption.
Further, it was not arbitrary, capricious or an error of law for the Tax Appeals Tribunal to find that petitioner failed to meet the same burden as it pertained to the admission charges for the stage performances. The Tribunal discredited the expert's opinion that the routines qualified as choreographed performances, a determination well within its province (see generally Matter of DiMaria v Ross, 52 NY2d 771 [1980]). The Tribunal articulated a rational basis for discrediting her; it found her testimony was compromised by her opinion that the private performances were the same as the main stage performances despite the fact that she neither observed nor had personal knowledge of what occurred in the private areas.
Clearly, it is not irrational for the Tax Tribunal to decline to extend a tax exemption to every act that declares itself a "dance performance." If ice shows presenting pairs ice dancing performances, with intricately choreographed dance moves precisely arranged to musical compositions, were not viewed by the Legislature as "dance" entitled a tax exemption, surely it was not irrational for the Tax Tribunal to conclude that a club presenting performances by women gyrating on a pole to music,
however artistic or athletic their practiced moves are, was also not a qualifying performance entitled to exempt status. To do so would allow the exemption to swallow the general tax since many other forms of entertainment not specifically listed in the regulation will claim their performances contain tax-exempt rehearsed, planned or choreographed activity.
Because we conclude that the charges and fees were taxable under Tax Law § 1105 (f) (1), we need not consider whether petitioner met its burden that the admission charges were not subject to tax pursuant to section 1105 (f) (3) of the Tax
Law.
Petitioner's remaining constitutional argument is
unavailing.
Matter of 677 New Loudon Corporation, &c. v State of New York Tax Appeals Tribunal et al.
No. 157
SMITH, J.(dissenting):
The ruling of the Tax Appeals Tribunal, which the majority upholds, makes a distinction between highbrow dance and lowbrow dance that is not to be found in the governing statute and raises significant constitutional problems. I therefore
dissent.
The dispositive question is whether the charges the State seeks to tax are paid for admission to a "choreographic . . . performance" (Tax Law § 1101 [d] [5]). I find it clear that the Legislature used "choreographic" in its statutory definition of "[d]ramatic or musical arts admission charge" merely as a synonym for "dance." Strictly speaking, it is true, not all dance is choreographed -- some may be improvised -- but it is absurd to suggest (and I do not read the majority opinion to suggest) that the Legislature meant to tax improvised dance while leaving choreographed dance untaxed. In any event the record shows, without contradiction, that the performances here were largely planned, not improvised.
That the statutory word "choreographic" simply means "dance" is confirmed by a regulation of the Department of Taxation and Finance. The regulation gives this example of "[a]dmissions excluded from tax":
"A theatre in the round has a show which consists exclusively of dance routines. The
admission is exempt since choreography is included within the term musical arts"
(20 NYCRR 527.10 [d] [2]).
The regulation assumes that "choreography" includes all "dance routines" -- it does not matter what kind of dancing is being done.
Thus, the only question in the case is whether the admission charges that the State seeks to tax were paid for dance performances. There is not the slightest doubt that they were. That is proved by the video introduced into evidence before the Tribunal, and the testimony of two witnesses, an executive of petitioner and a dancer, with personal knowledge. The people who paid these admission charges paid to see women dancing. It does not matter if the dance was artistic or crude, boring or erotic.
Under New York's Tax Law, a dance is a dance. The majority, and the Tribunal, have implicitly defined the statutory words "choreographic . . . performance" to mean "highbrow dance" or "dance worthy of a five-syllable adjective." The admission charges for these performances are taxable because the performances are, in the majority's view, not "cultural and artistic" (majority op at 2). The Tribunal took a similar view, finding that the dancers did not put the care into their efforts that high art requires: "We question how much planning goes into attempting a dance seen on You-Tube," the Tribunal remarked. It is undisputed that the dancers worked hard to prepare their acts, and that pole dancing is actually quite difficult, but the Tribunal decided that they were not artists, but mere athletes:
"The degree of difficulty is as relevant to a ranking in gymnastics as it is in dance." The Tribunal seems to have missed the point that "ranking," either of gymnasts or dancers, is not the function of a tax collector.
The majority implies that since the Legislature did not exclude from the entertainment tax other lowbrow forms of entertainment, such as baseball games and animal acts (see majority op at 2), it would not have wanted to exclude pole dancing; but the issue is not what the Legislature would have wanted to do, but what it did. If the Legislature wanted to tax all "choreographic . . . performances" except pole dancing, it could (assuming there are no constitutional problems) have said so, but the Tribunal has no authority to write that exception into the statute. And if, as the majority claims, a Department regulation purports to extend the tax to ice shows with "intricately choreographed dance moves" (majority op at 4), that is a problem with the regulation. It does not change the statute.
Since I view the only question -- an extremely easy question -- to be whether these women were dancing or not, I find the expert testimony in this case entirely irrelevant. It was perhaps a mistake for petitioner to call an expert, in an attempt to impress the Tribunal with the cultural value of the entertainment that its juice bar provides. I find the majority's and the Tribunal's discussions of the expert's testimony unfair - - indeed, the Tribunal's discussion (which says the testimony came in through "a continuous stream of leading questions"
Like the majority and the Tribunal, I find this particular form of dance unedifying -- indeed, I am stuffy enough to find it distasteful. Perhaps for similar reasons, I do not read Hustler magazine; I would rather read the New Yorker. I would be appalled, however, if the State were to exact from Hustler a tax that the New Yorker did not have to pay, on the ground that what appears in Hustler is insufficiently "cultural and artistic." That sort of discrimination on the basis of content would surely be unconstitutional (see Arkansas Writers' Project, Inc. v Ragland, 481 US 221, 229-230 [1987]). It is not clear to me why the discrimination that the majority approves in this case stands on any firmer constitutional footing.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Judgment affirmed, with costs, in a memorandum. Judges Ciparick, Graffeo, Pigott and Jones concur. Judge Smith dissents in an opinion in which Chief Judge Lippman and Judge Read concur. Decided October 23, 2012
groundloop
(13,846 posts)And the last paragraph is extremely pertinent, I believe, in that revenue collected from patrons to see one form of dance entertainment is exempt from sales tax whereas revenue collected from patrons to see another form of dance is not exempt.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Football, Hockey, Basketball, Baseball, boxing, Wrestling, etc are two sets of people who are interacting with each other in a unrehearsed "dance". If you define "Dance" as something physical people do as their interact together on a stage.
If you go to a Football, Hockey, Basketball, or baseball game, you have to pay tax on the food and drink you buy to watch the team members interact. If you go to a Boxing match or a Wrestling tournament you are watching two or more people interact (in the case of "Professional" Wrestling it is clearly pre-planed just like a ballet). The problem is when it comes to professional sports (Including Wrestling) the food and drink are clearly taxable. The tax code provides a narrow exception when it comes to dances on a stage. The Court held that the lap dance providers failed to show how they are more like a Ballet then Wrestling and that being the case the Tax Tribunal was correct in denying them the exemption from the sales tax on Food and Drink.
The dissent are more concerned about various US Supreme Court Decisions holding that one can not pass a rule against a legal business just because you dislike it (i.e. one can not zone out exotic dance clubs while permitting restaurants in the same area). The problem with that line of cases is that the ban was General not an exception to a general ban. Here we have a General rule, Drinks and food will be subject to the Sales Tax but then that general rule has an exception, that exception being for Dances. What is a dance under the Rule? What the Court has permitted, that is Ballets and other STAGE or rehearsed productions. What has NOT been covered by the Exceptions? Wrestling and other sporting events, even when it is pre-rehearsed and performed on a "Stage".
Sorry, this is enough of a narrow exception to a general rule for the Federal Courts to accept. Does it ban lap dances, no, it only requires that any drink or food sold be subject to a sales tax, the same sales tax any other activity has to pay, except for the narrow exceptions of Dances. The tax Tribunal ruled that lap dances are NOT dances as that term is used in the exception to the General rule that taxes must be paid.
thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)lapfog_1
(31,904 posts)ballet that was worthless and without artistic merit
and lap dances that were sublime and the highest form of "art".
femrap
(13,418 posts)a buff man in a very short tutu going commando....I'd like to see him dance around a pole and shake his buttocks. I want to see him dance like Patrick Swayze and John Travolta used to dance.
Men could be sexual objects as well.
There used to be clubs that had male strippers...but they were filled w/ salt peter.
I deem this to be 'art.'
Too bad Mr. Americas are freaks on roids.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...and wear toe shoes?
femrap
(13,418 posts)women have to lap dance to make a decent wage. But are they? In some states, the owners of the strip joint treat the women as independent contractors who have to share tips w/ bartenders/waitresses.
And to have to dance for some ugly, dumb ass, dude.....how depressing is that?
I've driven by a strip joint in Columbus, OH....it's right across the street from McDonald's. The women are out back feeding their kids sitting in strollers.
I detest our culture.
And the gov't is fighting over taxing...just who are they taxing...the women dancers or the owners of the joints??
I remember Raygun when he made wait staff declare 8% of the meal's total value as tax. I don't know if it has risen or not. Yep...go tax those RICH waitresses. Fooking repugnants.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)quite a few famous ones died penniless while the wealthy were able to buy their art for pennies then turn around and profit off of it (often in the millions of dollars).
I wouldn't condemn the art industry in general for this imbalance.
femrap
(13,418 posts)life of poverty that some artists have to bear.
I just don't see women strippers as 'artists.' It's a job where they might be able to make more money than flipping burgers or working at Target. I think it's very sad that women have to do that to make some money.
And her years as a stripper end as she ages. I heard that pregnant women are now the hot commodity at the strip joints.
I hope if there is incarnation, I get to go to an enlightened planet next time around.
Iggo
(49,927 posts)It's not art. Okay. But did they say what it is?
I hesitate to use the term "slippery slope" around juvenile gigglers like myself, but did they define what type of commerce a lap dance is, and therefore why it should be taxed?
Sivafae
(480 posts)But if it is actually dancing, instead of grinding on men's hard "laps" then absolutely it is art. And to be quite honest, some of the hardest art there is, improvisational.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Here's the challenge: come up with a universally accepted definition that isn't based on personal opinions or changing standards.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)can you display it in front of children? Can you put it in a kindergarten classroom? Can it run on Disney channel? Can it be hung on the walls of a church? Will moms get in their minivans and drive their children to go see it and will they sit there and view it, too?
Now some will say that Michaelangelo's David or Bottacelli's Venus would be considered porn under these guidelines, but guess what? Only in this country. People around the world have brought their children in to see these two masterpieces for centuries.. and the art galleries do not forbid children from entering the museum.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)

(whom I loathe, btw)
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)So it is 100% subjective.
Bare breasts mean nothing in some culture.
In others they are pornographic.
In others it depends on the context.
Which is correct?
A woman showing her ankles is pornography to some. In certain cultures having sex in front of your kids is considered no big deal (not a lot of privacy in tribal situations).
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)that it's very clear we're not talking about cultures that live in 3rd world/developing countries, out amongst the trees and live in huge communities who all hunt, fish, gather together.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Ok . . . which one?
I would imagine you can find radically different cultures within the US. A closed off Amish community has their standards. So do the people have San Francisco.
Which ones are right and set the standard for everyone else?
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)it is completely non sequitur.
I refuse to argue something as stupid as that with you. Welcome to my ignore list.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)probably the best solution considering your awkward position on the subject of rigorously enforcing arbitrary community standards for sexuality.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Besides, since when does art have to be highbrow to be art?
Vomiting on canvas is art. Pissing in a jar with a religious symbol in it is art. But not stripping?
/ballet could be considered porn by some people (like those who think women should be covered head to toe). Why do we not consider their standards?
They_Live
(3,373 posts)has Art been considered "tax exempt"??? I don't understand the basis of the argument. If I pay admission to an Art museum, isn't tax charged there?
olddad56
(5,732 posts)truthisfreedom
(23,532 posts)In which case they can tax it any which way they find convenient.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)Historic NY
(40,037 posts)in the old days clubs were slightly more classey a little bump and grind. The girls well they weren't completely bare ass it was a little more entertaining. Today many places in the state have clubs that are just juice bars no liquor. They bring in girls from the streets...yes they come to make a few buck and tips their only talent isn't exactly their dancing. A lots of locales my way fight to keep them out. A neighboring town has a promoter is building a multi-story club....thats folks over there are not happy about. I don't see anything cultural in these places, in the old days it was titilating. You went for a show. I think there is a bit more dynamics going on with the ruling. Its not so much the tax as it is a "follow the money scenario". There is an undercurrent to these places.