Majority of Florida condo board quit in 2019 as squabbling residents dragged out plans for repairs

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Source: Washington Post

The president of the board of the Florida condominium that collapsed last week resigned in 2019, partly in frustration over what she saw as the sluggish response to an engineer’s report that identified major structural damage the previous year.

Anette Goldstein was among five members of the seven-member board to resign in two weeks that fall, according to minutes from an Oct. 3 meeting, at a time when the condo association in Surfside was consumed by contentious debate about the multimillion-dollar repairs.

“We work for months to go in one direction and at the very last minute objections are raised that should have been discussed and resolved right in the beginning,” Goldstein wrote in a September 2019 resignation letter. “This pattern has repeated itself over and over, ego battles, undermining the roles of fellow board members, circulation of gossip and mistruths. I am not presenting a very pretty picture of the functioning of our board and many before us, but it describes a board that works very hard but cannot for the reasons above accomplish the goals we set out to accomplish.”



Debate over the cost and scope of the work, along with turnover on the volunteer board, dragged out preparations for the repairs for three years, according to previously unpublished correspondence, condo board minutes and other records kept by the homeowners association.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/majority-of-florida-condo-board-quit-in-2019-as-squabbling-residents-dragged-out-plans-for-repairs/2021/06/30/43592282-d98e-11eb-ae62-2d07d7df83bd_story.html

[Sneederbunk]

1. This will make a great book.

[Hekate]

2. Oh dear...

Worst case scenario raises its head

[Hoyt]

3. Don't doubt it, lots of condo associations fail when a large assessment is needed.

Not to mention folks wanting their brother-in-law to get air conditioning, cleaning, security, etc., contracts. Oh, and there is always at least one A-hole on the Board. And those wanting to increase number of rental units, and tons more disputes.

[Warpy]

5. This is why building inspectors nned to be able to force structural repairs

People see those repairs in quite a different light when there is a threat to condemn the building if they're not done quickly.

It also looks like at least some of the owners were absentee, since so many people were there on vacation, doing long term rentals, or otherwise just temporary tenants in the off season.

It looks like massive salt water intrusion was a major problem, and water always wins.

[Midnight Writer]

6. This is why I would not but a condo or multiplex or a house with an HOA.

[totodeinhere]

8. Yes. n/t

[totodeinhere]

9. Yes. n/t

[Hoyt]

19. We have a HOA for separate houses on small lots, but I do not foresee

any chance of a significant assessment. Admittedly, if we let huge weeds grow in small yard, paint our house in fluorescent colors, etc., we might get told to do something. Otherwise, I don’t feel at risk.

But a high rise building has lots of expensive upkeep. A townhouse is not as big a concern.

Gotta tell you, I wouldn’t hesitate if I could AFFORD a decent place with an ocean or stunning mountain view and terrace , but no more than 4 stories up.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. That's why I would never live in any building larger than 6 units.

Our six unit condo had an association budget of $18000 for insurance and maintenance. Everything was done on consensus of all the unit owners. We didn’t govern by board even though that was the way it was set up. We were completely self managed.

Big building mean massive budgets. Scaffolding, cranes and helicopters are expensive.

And now everyone in Miami is going to be getting hit with big bills because the city and the associations and engineers will be covering their asses.


A window fell out of the CNA building in Chicago and killed a woman. The city mandated inspections and hundreds of building ended up with scaffolding and netting on their facades. One of my employees got hit with a $40k assessment right after she moved in. It was a good time to be a tuck pointer.

Same thing when we had happen when a Chicago porch collapsed killing, iirc, 13 people. It had recently been inspected by the city. Thousands of porches got tagged by the inspectors. All architect plans had to be approved. The required load ratings went from 40 pounds/square foot to 100 pounds. It was a good time to be a porch builder.

[HUAJIAO]

41. I live in one of a group of town houses with an in house HOA

and a hired property management company.
I am on the Board of Directors of the HOA.

We do not have any of the problems I have read about associated with HOA's. Our only real issue is getting the owners to take part in decisions. :&gt

While this is just one HOA among many out there, well, at least there is one that works well....

[HUAJIAO]

42. There are no assholes on the HOA board of which I am a member.

Of course there may those who think I am the asshole, but I hope not.

[XanaDUer2]

4. read the whole

Letter. Sounded horrible. Petty. And here we are with dead people, some of them kids.

[Raven]

7. "self-management" says it all. n/t

[melm00se]

10. Self management

is not a bogeyman.

COAs and HOAs are commonly managed by the builder until certain milestones are met and then the residents have the ability to take over the management association's management.

I have been involved in several and not all of the residents wanted to take up the burden of association control.

Additionally, not every association is contaminated with toxic personalities...in my experience it has been about 50/50 or jerk to normal people.

[Nasruddin]

11. 50-50?

If that's so ... that's REALLY bad!

[EYESORE 9001]

15. Which half were you in?

That’s a joke, BTW.

Truthfully, that sounds like a thankless job.

[Hoyt]

20. And the Board is made up of condo owners, not some corporate folks

with no interest other than making profit and keeping the contract.

[George II]

25. Sorry, that's not the way any managers I was associated with.

[Hoyt]

26. If the condo association chooses to contract with a "management" company,

do you believe the management company— without the express consent of the Board — would send out an assessment letter for $50,000?

Don’t think so, about all they’d do is draft a letter for Board approval and, if approved, mail out the letter and instructions for payment. They might also field all the complaints?

[George II]

24. By "self management" do you mean managed by owners and NOT a property manager?

Once the developer turns the association over to the residents, any association I've seen immediately hired a property management company. Regardless of the diversity of experience of the residents, there's not enough among the residents to manage all the aspects of a condominium.

As for the toxicity, all it takes is one or two of them to get elected to the board and there's big trouble, right down to making it impossible to get anything done.

It was far from luxury, but for 13 years I owned and lived in a unit in a 282 unit apartment conversion. After a year I was elected Vice President, then President for the next 11 years.

We had a Treasurer who was impossible to work with. She acted like every penny was coming out of her own pocket. Normally that is good, but she scrutinized every bill before it was paid. One month our maintenance guy's phone bill was a lot higher than what it was other months. She wanted a full accounting and explanation why. After a 30 minute discussion with the manager, finally I asked, "how much are we talking about?" Turns out the normal bill was $40, that month it was $60! He explained that he made a number of calls to buy a $500 piece of equipment, and he SAVED us more than $100. That's how bad she was. He quit after the way she treated him and eventually she resigned.

Man, this is bringing back nightmares!

[Hoyt]

27. But the management company doesn't make the decision for a $50,000

assessment of the condo owners unilaterally. They might make a recommendation to the Board, but no management company is going to unilaterally levy a $50 K assessment.

[yardwork]

47. I was treasurer and then president of a small condo association.

We didn't have a management company. That costs money. Several of our owners weren't willing to pay for the termite bond or decent insurance or essential maintenance. They definitely weren't willing to pay for a manager. So the board members - all volunteers, with our own full-time jobs and family responsibilities - managed the association.

I can relate to every word of this board president's resignation letter. I ended up selling and getting out. It was a nightmare. Too bad, because I loved my unit and the location.

[Chainfire]

12. Miami-Dade county can revoke the occupancy licensing of a dangerous building

You can bet that M-D is scrambling now to coverup their errors that contributed to the deaths. It is just human nature to try to avoid expensive repairs coming out of your pocket. The big problem is that the homeowners didn't have the knowledge to access the danger, Miami-Dade did.

[Hoyt]

22. I wonder how many localities have officials with the guts to condemn

a building in this situation when it could impact thousands of residents. Also wonder how long administrative appeals would delay actual condemnation. Not saying they shouldn’t have the guts, but few do.

[TheBlackAdder]

23. In FL, are strucutal engineers mandated to report these things to the state & county?

.

They should have pulled that CO immediately.

Nothing will get the HOA and residents onboard faster than being kicked out of your units.

.

[yardwork]

49. Instead, the city official told them everything was fine!

The city's liability in this is huge.

[Chainfire]

50. The big question is, "Why would he have done that?"

Hopefully it will come to light.

[Totally Tunsie]

13. I wonder...

if Ms. Goldstein was still a resident there, or if she took the reports seriously enough to get out while she could. Hopefully, the latter.

[jgmiller]

14. This is common in many HOA's not just condos

I live in a small HOA (191 houses) and am on the board. Thankfully we all work very hard and get along but there are many home owners that just don't want to listen no matter how hard we try.

Our houses all go for well over $1M and we have private streets (no gates) so we have to pay for any street maintenance. Besides basic safety the overall appearance helps keep our property values high. A few years ago we discovered that after 30 years our streets needed to be completely replaced, the original builder did a very poor job and through patching they lasted this long. When we presented the plan to spend $1.2M over 5 years to do this only about 25% of the owners showed up for the meeting. Most were fine with it but a surprising number didn't want to do anything and their argument was "I'm not going to be living here in 10-15 years what do I care what the streets look like then?" Even 4 years after we started we still got confused calls from homeowners that didn't realize they were paying for the replacement with an additional monthly assessment.

[progree]

16. $1.2 million / 191 houses equals $6283 per house. Assessed over 5 years equals $105/month

Doesn't sound that bad. We've had a few of those, but we're expected to pay it all in one or two chunks (I don't know why our HOA can't or doesn't get a loan for these things -- they have to have the money from us by the time the bills from the contractors come due).

[jgmiller]

32. You are right it's not bad but that doesn't stop people from not wanting to pay

[apnu]

43. Selfishness. That whole story is a sad, but common one.

Nobody cares about anything past their current front door. This is why America is turning into a crappy place. This is the poison of Capitalism.

[yardwork]

44. I had similar experiences on the board of a small condo association.

Different people can have very different approaches to maintenance. Some folks - like me - want to keep things in good repair. Others want to go along as cheaply as possible, deferring needed maintenance and contracting with the cheapest possible vendors. Still other owners can't be bothered to help make decisions at all, leaving a ton of work and negotiations to their neighbors volunteering on the board

It was a nightmare for me. I sold at a loss and got out. Best thing I ever did.

My heart goes out to this condo board. I stressed over repairs costing a few thousands. I can't imagine facing $16m in essential repairs. I can't imagine how the survivors feel now. It's so sad.

[csziggy]

48. That's what is short sighted about this kind of thing

Even if you live on a county or city maintained roads in some cases property owners can be assessed for improvements.

Thirty years ago the county decided to pave every road in the county - they had a special tax going for county improvements, had done most of what that was originally planned for a decided they wanted to be out of the dirt road business. So they paved the road in front of our farm.

Normally when the county did that sort of improvement, each property owner would have a special assessment proportionate to the length of frontage, so many of the property owners along the road were happy that their property values would increased without having to pay that. Of course, the county assessed higher property values so everybody's taxes went up - something many had not factored into their decision to approve the improvement. But we each saved a significant amount by signing over some of our frontage in return for having the county's special taxes paying for the road upgrade.

[Turbineguy]

17. Unfortunately, this is a familiar refrain.

Our condo HOA had a board of good, dedicated people who on the whole did a great job. A couple of conspiracy theorist residents drove them out. In their place, an incompetent group of clowns took over.

The conspiracy theorist couple moved out leaving their handiwork in place.

[Hoyt]

28. Yep. There is always at least one contrarian.

[SpankMe]

18. What needs to happen is...

They need to review the minutes and notes from meetings over the prior year and identify those people whose egos and meddling undermined progress on renovations and prosecute them for involuntary manslaughter.

Then, they should be sentenced to sped the rest of their lives with the phrase "I am an asshole" embroidered on their clothes.

[DURHAM D]

21. I am a little confused.

Do they not have a management company?

[ToxMarz]

29. A management company would work for them, not rule over them

If they didn't like what the management company told them they would get rid of them and find one that told them what they wanted to hear.

A condominium/HOA is more like a "marriage" of a group of owners than a them (condo/HOA) vs us (owners). They are collectively (legally) a single corporate entity.

[DURHAM D]

30. You didn't answer the question. And, this make no sense -

"A condominium/HOA is more like a "marriage" of a group of owners than a them (condo/HOA) vs us (owners). They are collectively (legally) a single corporate entity."


Also, a management company works at the direction of the Board and the Board must stay within the dictates of the governing documents.

[ToxMarz]

33. I don't know if they have a management company, it doesn't matter

The Board can only instruct a management company to do what the homeowners have collectively agreed to. And almost all the Board resigned because the homeowners (collectively) would not agree to what they wanted/needed to do. What difference would a management company make in that situation.

[yardwork]

45. I've been wondering that.

It's possible that this condo association was spending so much money every year trying to keep up with minimal repairs on their poorly-constructed building, they didn't want to spend money on a management company.

[hunter]

31. Another beautiful day in libertarian paradise.

Ayn Rand said it would be like this.

[Hugin]

37. +1

You said it so I didn't have to.

A Tragedy of the Commons in the 21st century.

[Delarage]

39. Yes!

Which is why I always frame "regulations" as PROTECTIONS when I encounter any anti-government regulation type people. There are some serious dumbasses out there.

[Hugin]

40. I may take that up as a practice.

Excellent idea!

(and so true)

[sop]

51. Galt's Gulch Condominiums?

[DallasNE]

34. This Sounds All Too Typical

Here the frustrated Board President blames the owners for sabotaging the work of the Board with last minute objections. That sounds like a transparency issue where the Board provided incomplete data to get preliminary appr oval then hit the owners with a surprise and the owners push back.

They had Property Management function so where did they fit in the picture. What does there Master Deed say regarding who does what? These condo associations are islands in the City Many are not well managed and there is no outside supervision of the work they perform.

Typically with aging structures you will begin to face extensive repairs and typically the Board will not fund reserves and perform scheduled maintenance, instead waiting for things to fail and then deal with the replacement and collateral damage from the failure. Depending on the cost it could mean a special assessment. Many owners don't have the money for the $5,000 special assessment and that only makes the solution more difficult to deal with.

In this case why didn't the Board set up a reserve fund in 2017 when they were confronted with the problem. They hired the engineer to make the assessment and then did nothing. That is not the owners fault. They are not the ones that just kicked the can down the road. The 2018 report quantified how much money was needed to the reserve probably needed a boost at that time. So 5 of the 7 Board members resigned, though 1 came back shortly thereafter. Politics seemed pretty thick here so this was a disaster waiting to happen. And the urgency was apparent. They couldn't pump the water out fast enough to keep up. RED FLAG. Was there something they could have done short term to shore things up while longer range repairs are made. We know what doing nothing resulted in.

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around. And this is not all that uncommon in Associations. A good investigative reporter should look into older Associations and see how they are faring with the deferred maintenance situation? Especially these 40 year old condos. And especially as it relates to reserve funding specific to deferred maintenance issues. It would probably be pretty alarming.

[yardwork]

46. Having served on the board of a condo association, I disagree with you.

It sounds like the board is made up of owners, probably volunteers. It's likely that any special assessment would have to be voted on and approved by all the owners. Many of the owners probably didn't want to or couldn't afford to pay the assessment, and it sounds like nobody - including the city! - understood how dire the situation was.

[DallasNE]

54. State Law Varies As Do Master Deed's

In Nebraska the Board is granted a lot of power. They, not the owners, would approve contracts and set budgets, including whether to create a special assessment, fund a reserve, get a loan or some blend - even whether to proceed with repairs The owners only say is the annual election for Board members where the owners may not have a full set of facts to work from. Selling your unit is the other option available. Without knowing Florida law or seeing the Master Deed it can't be determined if this Board has the broad powers granted in states like Nebraska.

Lack of specific expertise by Board members is a handicap. That is why they have to hire engineers to perform the analysis. This means the specs in the request for proposal needs to be thorough so they fully understand how grave a situation it really is. Here they had water pumps running 24 hours a day and still couldn't keep up at times. What was the source of that water. Was it fresh pool water or salt water? Salt water would be much more serious than fresh water and would impact the conclusion of the engineering study.

[yardwork]

55. All good questions... I guess it will be years before this is resolved.

[3Hotdogs]

36. Then there's other examples of what goes wrong when property is not maintained. Florida -

So, about 30 years ago, my uncle retired and bought into a golf community near Panama City. We drove to see him about years ago. The streets were filled with potholes. Then he took us to see the golf course. 18 holes were reduced to 3 because money was not allocated to maintain the other 15 holes. And then the signs at the entrance to the remaining 3 holes.

"Beware: Alligators and rattlesnakes.
Play at your own risk."

Fuck that.

[Deminpenn]

38. Condo/HoA board service is a thankless job

My experience in the small (18 units) condo was that the board annually sent letters to the owners asking for other owners to serve on the board. There were rarely takers. Luckily our board got along with each other and had been together for years. During my ownership time, we had a couple special assessments to put on a new roof and fix the small decks although initially the board wanted to replace all the decks at 4k each. Ultimately they settled on a repair bringing the decks up to code.

[sop]

52. Waterfront condominiums in Miami-Dade are rapidly becoming unaffordable for the average

person. All the new towers being put up on the beach, from Government Cut at the tip of South Beach all the way up along Collins Ave. to Aventura and the Broward County line, replacing all the hundreds of older, crumbling buildings like Champlain South, are "exclusive, luxury residences" catering only to wealthy beautiful people, where even the smallest units sell for millions of dollars.

Units in the swanky new condo right next to Champlain South are selling for tens of millions of dollars. Gone are the days of your grandfather's South Florida, where the average retiree or middle class worker could afford living in these waterfront buildings. And owners of existing units in these older condos, purchased twenty or thirty years ago for a reasonable sum, will no longer be able to pay the maintenance fees and reconstruction costs required to remain in their dream homes.

The county will now be forced to increase inspections and mandate expensive repairs. Many residents won't be able to afford the reconstruction these buildings require. Developers will come in, make offers to buy the valuable waterfront land, tear down the old structures and put up new luxury mega-towers. That's been the trend in South Florida real estate for the last twenty years, and this collapse will only accelerate the process.

[yardwork]

56. Those luxury mega-towers will be underwater in 50 years or less.

Of course, that's never stopped developers from making a buck, especially in south Florida.

There are high rise buildings all up and down the east coast and along the Gulf. All will be increasingly impacted by sea level rise. The dreams are going to die hard and it's going to cost us all a lot.

[ripcord]

53. I can't imagine dealing with something like that

We have a neighborhood association but it deals only with the upkeep on our private road and since there are only 6 homes things are pretty simple, we all throw in a small monthly payment and have the road resurfaced every 10 years.

[VarryOn]

59. I quit going to my neighborhood HOA meetings...

90% of us were happy to get along, pay what we needed, abide by the rules. 10% would die on every mole hill. After a 3 hour meeting discussing the various natural tones of fence colors, I said to hell with them. I no longer live in a subdivision.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

57. Condo association accused Surfside of 'holding up' major repairs three days before collapse, emails

show

MIAMI — The association of owners of the Champlain Towers South condominium knew their building needed repairs — a lot of them and soon — and by May they were trying in earnest to get town approval for their major renovation plans, according to emails between the association and town officials obtained by The Miami Herald.

The town building department wasn’t always responsive.

Emails show building department officials were silent for more than a month after the condo association submitted plans in May to the town asking for approval of a temporary parking plan in order move forward. The delay prompted Scott Stewart, the condo building manager, to accuse the town of “holding us up” as the association sought to accelerate the tower’s overhaul, which included repairs to a concrete slab under the pool deck and planters that experts are now pointing to as an initial point of failure that preceded the building collapse.

On June 23, the director of the Surfside building department, James McGuinness, finally responded with a list of logistics questions. It was just 14 hours before the tower collapsed. No one had a chance to reply.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/condo-association-accused-surfside-of-holding-up-major-repairs-three-days-before-collapse-emails-show/ar-AALIer2

[tavernier]

58. My husband was a licensed condominium manager.

Unless things have drastically changed since he retired (and soon after passed away), all condominium properties over a certain size and or monetary value are mandated by law to have a licensed manager. Property management companies hold that license, or individual property managers, but if the condominium association chooses to self manage, they are still obligated to have a board owner hold a license. “President” of the board means squat legally, because when it it comes down to the person who is legally liable for advising the board on the law, it is the licensed manager. Of course they may choose to ignore their advice, but in situations where safety is a critical issue, the licensed manager has an obligation to report dangerous or life threatening situations to the state board.

But maybe things have changed.