Israel levels West Bank home of Palestinian-American suspect

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli forces on Thursday demolished the family home of a Palestinian-American man accused of being involved in a deadly attack on Israelis in the West Bank in May.

Associated Press video footage showed Israeli army troops leveling the two-story home of Muntasser Shalaby in the village of Turmus Ayya with controlled explosions.

Israel says Shalaby carried out a May 2 drive-by shooting in the Israeli-occupied West Bank that killed Israeli student Yehuda Guetta and wounded two others. He was arrested days after the attack. His wife, Sanaa Shalaby, told the AP they were estranged for several years and that he spent most of his time in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where he had married three other women in unofficial Islamic ceremonies. The entire family has U.S. citizenship.

The Israeli Supreme Court upheld the demolition order in a decision last month. Sanaa and her three children had been living in the home.



FILE - In this June 3, 2021 file photo, Sanaa Shalaby, estranged wife of Muntasser Shalaby, who Israeli security forces accuse of carrying out a May 2 shooting that killed an Israeli and wounded two others in the occupied West Bank, walks in her home in the West Bank village of Turmus Ayya. On Wednesday, June 23, 2021, Israel’s Supreme Court upheld the decision to destroy the Shalaby family home. It rejected a petition by Sanaa Shalaby, who lives in the home with three of their children and says she knew nothing about the attack. The case drew attention to Israel’s policy of demolishing the family homes of attackers after they have been killed or arrested. (AP Photo/Majdi Mohammed, File)


Read more: https://apnews.com/article/west-bank-middle-east-israel-592b2c05bcb37c3af20ca14f2ff1ad6b

[Lonestarblue]

1. And Israelis wonder why the Palestinians hate them.

Israel claims to be a democracy, but where in democratic law does it allow for the homes of innocent women and children to be destroyed? Are the family homes of Israelis who murder Palestinians—or even other Israelis—destroyed? I suspect not.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Revenge instead of justice.

[ExciteBike66]

3. I can't think of a better way to make "terrorists" than to impoverish innocent people...

I mean, even if they suspect that the wife knew about the attack, what about the kids?

We should not be funding this...

[FBaggins]

7. There's a much better way to make terrorists

(no need for the scare quotes... that's what he was).

Simple - let them know that becoming a "martyr" (quotes are appropriate this time) results in a lifetime income for your family... and triple that amount or higher if you are instead arrested and imprisoned for the crime.

[Beastly Boy]

9. Apparently, Mr. Shalaby didn't give a shit about his kids when he became a terrorist. Or his home.

Or his wife. Or the people he killed and wounded Or any other innocent people. You may find Israel's response unjust (evidently, the Israeli Supreme Court does not, and they studied the case in detail), but it is a RESPONSE to terrorism. Let's take our blinders off.

And we are not funding this. Iran is funding this.

[Ziggysmom]

4. It isnt right, but he shot three 19 year olds in a drive by, one died. I feel more sympathy for

the kids families than for this ugly mansion coming down.
Similarly, most states in America let police take and keep your stuff without convicting you of any crime. By using civil forfeiture, police can seize someone's property without proving the person was guilty of a crime; they just need probable cause the property was being used as part of criminal activity. The US is not much better than Israel in this respect.

[FBaggins]

6. I'm sure that the murders he committed were posted here somewhere

No?

[Jedi Guy]

12. A search of the guy's name reveals this as the only DU thread involving him.

Oh wait... that was a rhetorical question, wasn't it? Oops.

[seta1950]

8. Is that

Democratic?, I think not

[Turbineguy]

10. Terrorism must pay pretty well

That's a pretty snazzy crib.

[FBaggins]

11. Definitely not standard for others in the Palestinian community in the West Bank

He's apparently a US citizen with a small business here. I'd imagine even a moderately "middle class" income here can fund a pretty lavish lifestyle there.

Of course... terrorism does pay well there too.

[Happy Hoosier]

13. No trial? No due process?

So, yeah, when folks get all defensive of Israel, this is the kind of thing I bring up.

[Beastly Boy]

18. Yes trial. Yes due process. All the way up to Israel's Supreme Court.

Israel’s Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld the decision to destroy the family home of a detained Palestinian accused of a deadly shooting. It rejected a petition by his estranged wife, who lives in the house with their children and says she knew nothing about the attack.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-af00e090befa07324a34912f88d53aeb

You shouldn't have brought it up.

[Happy Hoosier]

19. I don't see ANY mention of a conviction.

They accused him. Is that all it takes? It seems so.

That's a problem, IMO.

[Beastly Boy]

21. Oh please. Look harder.

Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's office responded today to criticism from Washington concerning last night's demolition of convicted Palestinian assailant Muntasser Shalaby's home in the West Bank.

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/07/bennett-bristles-under-us-criticism-punitive-house-demolition#ixzz703DTKrKg

Indicted for murder and convicted. Appeal to the Supreme Court denied. Yeah, that's all it takes, but I must say, God didn't smite him with a lightning, so it's a problem, right?

[Happy Hoosier]

22. Okay, my mistake, but do you think this policy is just?

What would you say if government here decided it could demolish your house because someone in it committed a crime?

Collective punishment is usually not permitted under international law.

[Beastly Boy]

30. I am very ambivalent about this policy.

Israel is walking a fine line between collective punishment and justice. By certain measures, it very likely oversteps the conduct permissible under international law. But since we are talking about this case, I don't have the information to determine whether boundaries have been crossed. And since I am talking out of ignorance of the case, I am not about to pronounce the "justice denied" verdict based on my ignorance.

As far as Israel's policy being just, what is justice in the case of a random attack on civilians? Although the policy is unjust, it is certainly more humane than than that of the terrorists. To be fair, the applications of the concept of justice towards Israeli victims of Palestinian terrorists are few and far between in certain circles. For instance, I hear a lot about Israel applying disproportional force towards Hamas, but not at all about Hamas applying disproportional disregard for international law and human life when it comes to Israel.

[Happy Hoosier]

33. Okay, that's an honest, thoughtful response.

Thank you.

My feeling is that Israel’s policies will never permit a peaceful resolution to their problems, and indeed, may be intended to have that effect.

[Mysterian]

14. Where did Israel learn these revenge / reprisal tactics?

Nazi Germany?

[MrModerate]

16. Let's just say that they learned the wrong lessons from the holocaust. n/t

[FBaggins]

17. From the Palestinians of course

Where else?

[Mysterian]

23. But Palestinians are the baddies, right?

Does that mean Israelis are the baddies too?

[FBaggins]

24. In this scenario, yes.

Does that mean Israelis are the baddies too?

Nope.

Incentivizing people to commit terror attacks and trying to incentivize them not to do so... are not morally equivalent actions. Even if both try to use economics to influence behavior.

[Mysterian]

25. So, it's OK to commit terrorism in order to discourage terrorism?

Seems kind of dodgy but if you say so.

[FBaggins]

27. That is in no sense "terrorism"

It's your creative choice of language that is "dodgy".

The legal process was run all the way up through their supreme court. Plenty of people object to asset forfeiture laws, but they are far from "terrorism".

That's as ridiculous as calling a life-without-parol sentence "slavery" after the criminal commits multiple murders.

[Mysterian]

29. Oh, it went through their supreme court so it's OK,

even though it violates the Genva Conventions and international law.

https://icahd.org/2021/04/20/the-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-by-israel-a-fact-sheet/

[Beastly Boy]

31. The second Muntasser Shalaby fired at an Israeli, he forefeited his rights under Geneva Conventions.

IV: GENEVA CONVENTION RELATIVE TO THE PROTECTION OF CIVILIAN PERSONS IN TIME OF WAR OF 12 AUGUST 1949

Article 5:

ART.5.— Where, in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.

Shalaby is definitely not covered by the Geneva Conventions. The question is whether his wife is. I am not a lawyer, but we have the decision of Israel's supreme court: she is not. Since I don't have all the facts that the Israeli Supreme Court had, I am not inclined to jump to any conclusions on this matter.

[FBaggins]

35. Your linked citation doesn't support your claim

It merely makes the claim without citation to an actual law... which is curious since they claim that the action is illegal in the face of the actual law creating the forfeiture scheme - and, of course, you're making the claim in the face of a recent supreme court ruling exactly to the contrary.

[MrModerate]

15. This is one of the many reasons that people hate the Israeli government. They're bullies. n/t

[ripcord]

20. There is a solution to this, don't be a terrorist

They should have sold the home and given the proceeds to the victim's family as compensation.

[Mysterian]

26. Were the family members living in the home terrorists too?

I didn't see that in the article.

[Beastly Boy]

32. Unlikely, but not impossible.

And it wouldn't matter if Muntasser Shalaby is the sole owner of the property. And it makes no difference whether the matter of ownership is not mentioned in the article. It was for the courts to decide, not journalists.

...There is no dispute that Shalaby is a terrorist, is there?

[FBaggins]

34. The other thing you don't see in the article is that she didn't own the home

That's likely intentional. They're going out of their way to tell a story that separates the home from the terrorist (the further the separation, the less reasonable the forced forfeiture appears). But he owned the home and was living there at the time of the attack. She is merely listed as "lives in the home"... which seems like odd phrasing.

[Demovictory9]

28. Collective punishment

[FBaggins]

36. Yes. Murdering people on a street corner just because they're Jewish is collective punishment

Of course... there are worse labels that apply as well.

[VarryOn]

37. I view Palestinians like I do antivaxxers...

They have control of their circumstances.