A judge asked a mother if she got the covid vaccine. She said no, and he revoked custody of her son.

[reACTIONary]

Source: Washington Post

When Rebecca Firlit joined a virtual court hearing with her ex-husband earlier this month...“One of the first things (the judge) asked me … was whether or not I was vaccinated,”

She was not, she said, explaining that she has had “adverse reactions to vaccines in the past”... Cook County Judge James Shapiro then made what the parents’ attorneys called an unprecedented decision — he said the mother could not see her 11-year-old son until she got the vaccine.....

Judges in other states have granted lesser sentences to defendants who opt to get the vaccine, or mandated the vaccine as a condition of release from prison for some inmates. A judge in the 19th Judicial District Court in East Baton Rouge offered some defendants the option of getting the vaccine instead of completing community service hours.

Two judges in Ohio have also ordered that some people receive the vaccine as a condition of their probation. Similarly, two Georgia judges are reducing sentences for some offenders who get the vaccine. In New York, judges in the Bronx and Manhattan have ordered defendants to get the vaccine as part of their rehabilitation and as a condition for seeking bail, respectively.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/30/chicago-vaccine-custody-rebecca-firlit/

[DanieRains]

1. Unvaccinated Unfit Parent

In a hundred ways for a thousand reasons.

[erronis]

2. Now she can have an "adverse reaction" to the ruling --- sob, sob.

I hope her stupid decision goes into the court record as future judgements are determined.

[TomWilm]

3. This will be red meat feeding the anti-vaxxers ...

... and I do not see the necessity for the judge to rule like this. This though I am myself fully vaccinated, and fights the BS of anti-vaxxers on a daily basis.

[Blues Heron]

5. She could infect her own child

You get that right? Its called bad parenting 101

[TomWilm]

26. ... and the logic then would be to remove kids from anti-vaxx families.

[Blues Heron]

27. good idea

they're not fit to be parents

[RVN VET71]

29. Great idea but

you have drooling morons screaming at school board meetings over mask mandates, for Pete’s sake. There are just so many unstable and homicidal jackasses in this country that if the state were to try to separate children from their stupid, ignorant, childish parents there’d be freaking armed insurrections worse and more spread out than January 6th.

Thanks to the stubborn, horrible ignorance of an uncomfortably large percentage of our fellow citizens, the children in those homes have to be left to die. Ironically, when they die, their parents will blame it on the refugees from Central America, the Squad, and, of course, POTUS.

Before Delta took hold in the U.S., children were largely unaffected by Covid-19.

Now they are getting sick, getting hospitalized, even dying. And you know the Right Wing can and will say that until Biden and the Dems took control, children weren’t getting sick, etc., etc. And Q-anon will claim that children are getting sick and dying because the communist child eating Liberals simply widened the range of kill targets of the disease Dr. Fauci created with the Chinese. Why? Because it will make us sheeple more prone to get the vax and have our kids take the vax so we’ll all be under Bill Gates mind control nano-chips.

But, of course, we now have the new “super-delta” virus coming in from South Africa -- and listen carefully to how this extrapolates -- South Africa, a country that never exported deadly disease when whites were in control. So the new strain of covid is also proof that BLM is behind an effort to wipe out whiteness.

Add to that craziness the taking of children from their parents and things would get messy, indeed.

[TomWilm]

31. Just like another judge then will have the right to remove YOUR children ...

... since you are endangering them with teachings about the rightfulness of abortion, an illegal practice outlawed by a coming ruling in the Supreme Court. And so on ...

[PSPS]

38. Very poor whataboutism. Please try again.

One's opinion on abortion won't infect or kill me or my grandparents with Covid.

[TomWilm]

46. Nope, but it could kill unborn children in your family. Whataboutthat.

- Butler County (Ohio) judge orders West Chester Hospital to treat COVID-19 patient with Ivermectin.

[RobinA]

34. Horrible

Kids are better off risking COVID than in the foster care system.

[reACTIONary]

35. The child is in the custody of their father...

... not foster care.

[ramen]

9. It already is. I read faux to see what manufactured outrage they are drumming up,

and their take on this is exactly what you fear. Bonus points if you can last 45 seconds reading the comments section.

[IronLionZion]

16. After they get worms from gorging on raw red meat

they can use horse dewormer to destroy their insides

[janterry]

4. Some people have life threatening reactions to vaccinations

I do have one friend who is unable to get vaccinated for anything - as are her children. Her family has had two members die from vaccinations (ordinary vaccinations). She is strongly in favor of vaccines (in general) because herd immunity has provided her with some protections.

Covid is very frightening to them. But there is nothing they can do but stay as safe as they can.

This is very rare - but there ARE people who have very negative adverse reactions.

[cstanleytech]

7. That an issue of "x that is used to make the vaccine will kill me" or "because x died I am afraid"?

[janterry]

10. I don't know

Her family is not allowed to have vaccines because of their history of adverse reactions. Her husband, otoh, is allowed. Her side of the family is the one that has had these catastrophic events.

[cstanleytech]

12. She should look into seeing if she can get tested for an allergy then as getting vaccinated is

safe for the vast majority of people so it more than likely is an issue of being afraid.

[janterry]

21. I don't know all the details

It's been a protocol for her and her kids forever (she's been very pro-vax as a result, since she knows that she relies on herd immunity for her own safety. Some of the vaccine hesitancy - predating covid, of course, had really worried her ). But I'm sure she's looked into it. Perhaps something has shifted in the past few years (I have not asked).

[Farmer-Rick]

37. Yeah, my Mower guy said the same thing

He said he is allergic to it and his Mom is too. She died from Covid a month after the vaccine came out. He said the vaccine could kill them.

Something abut how they make the vaccine that the entire family is allergic to. Not sure what ingredient it is. But I asked him if he could get a special vaccine made or a different manufacturer. He just shrugged. I don't think he looked into it. Because he never wears a mask and he worked through the pandemic the whole time. If he was worried abut it, I think he would of at least worn a mask when he talked to me. I always did until I got vaccinated.

I'm just not sure what he said was true. But his mother did die from Covid. He was really upset when it happened. She was 89 years old.

[janterry]

43. This predated all of this. She had two close family members die

from a vaccine reaction.

Obviously it was frightening - I don't know if she has additional options as of late. I do know this was a very big deal when she decided to have kids - even whether to have kids because of that was one of the discussions she had w/her husband

she's always been super worried for their safety.

[Farmer-Rick]

48. Yeah, sounds like there are individuals who are allergic to something common to most vaccines

Not sure what it is.

My arm swelled up and turned purple once after getting a combined tetanus and flu shot in that arm. It doubled in size where the injection went in and about 6 inches around my upper arm. But it went down in a couple of weeks and itched like crazy. I still have an indention where the needle went in.

The doctor claimed it was an allergic reaction to eggs. I eat eggs all the time. I raise chickens. There is no way I'm allergic to eggs. But it never happened again.

I think the corpsman who gave me the shot, didn't know what she was doing and may have gotten the needle dirty or contaminated. That Navy clinic was known to be pretty bad. But I didn't think they could screw up a tetanus shot. This was years ago before antivaxxers were a thing.

[Mosby]

58. Eggs or gelatin

See poatv57.

People who have a vaccine allergy can usually still get their recommended vaccinations. Methods for giving vaccinations to people with a vaccine allergy may involve:

Using an alternative form of the vaccine that you are not allergic to

Taking antihistamine or corticosteroid medications before your vaccination to help prevent or decrease an allergic reaction

Getting vaccinated under the supervision of your doctor in the presence of lifesaving medical equipment (for example, at an equipped clinic or hospital)

Testing for immunity to the disease being vaccinated against, and forgoing the vaccination if you already have immunity

[womanofthehills]

62. The allergen in the MRNA vaccines is PEG

Polyethylene glycol. It’s in lots of products - one being some hair dyes

[Major Nikon]

14. Sorry, but this sounds like anti-vaxxer bullshit

It certainly possible for someone to die from a vaccination, although exceedingly rare. The idea that someone might die from one particular type of vaccination means they might die from all vaccinations is complete nonsense and for an entire family it’s even deeper into the realm of merde. Your “friend” is an anti-vaxxer.

[janterry]

20. do you have a medical background?

Vaccinations are contraindicated to her and her children (not her husband) based on family history. She is following medical advice. She has been following this advice long before covid.

I'm not a medical professional. But your statement is shockingly judgmental about someone you don't know.

[Elessar Zappa]

23. There's no such person

who’s allergic to all vaccines. It’s pure hogwash.

[janterry]

33. She has been followed for years by her physician

and her family has taken his advice. Moreover, I know when her children were quite young, they went to consult at a major hospital. She was worried for them and needed a second opinion. They considered this very important and worrisome. They wanted a way around it.

But I'll let her know a random person on the internet thinks they know more.

SMH. Weird place the internet.

[Major Nikon]

51. ... and it just keeps getting deeper

Sadly anti-vaxxers still exist on DU. They just have to be a bit more covert about it.

[womanofthehills]

72. Pfizer's initial website when the Vax came out

Said it was advised that anyone with a previous anaphylactic reaction not get the shot. However, our CDC said no problem that’s why the 15 minute wait. However if you check the anaphylactic reactions reported to VAERS, some people continued to have anaphylactic reactions for 2 days.

[Major Nikon]

50. Do you know your "friend" is actually receiving advice from someone with a medical background?

I've seen enough anti-vaxxer BS to be highly skeptical of these sort of claims.

Pretty much every anti-vaxxer I've ever met claims to not be anti-vaxxer and always has a BS excuse as to why they can't vaccinate which is always predicated on "professional medical advice". More often they are just making it up from some quackery they read online.

I don't know that any part of the story you are relating is true or not. Assuming the part about the "friend" is true, you have no idea whether or not they are actually receiving competent medical advice or not. There's a number of red flags with your friend's story.

1) They can't take any vaccines.
All vaccines are not made from the same components. The idea anyone would be at higher risk for serious vaccine complications from all vaccines is just ridiculous. No competent medical professional is going to tell this to anyone. Even if you want to assume this story isn't completely fabricated at best the "medical background" they are getting this advice from is a quack.

2) Not just one but two family members died from vaccines.
Death from vaccines is exceedingly rare and kinda in the order of winning the lottery statistically speaking. Just because someone dies after taking a vaccine, doesn't mean the vaccine itself was the causal or even contributing factor. So while it's entirely possible you could have multiple family members with inherited serious allergic reactions to certain things, this doesn't mean all family members would have the same inherited allergies. Even twins don't always get the same allergies. So no, this just isn't believable. Not even close.

The idea an entire family can't take any vaccines without serious risk of death would be a medical phenomena even if such a thing were possible.

If you were shocked at my last judgement, you'd better take a seat for this one. Whether or not you are doing so intentionally or not, you are spreading anti-vax bullshit. You really should give some serious thought before repeating your claim that "some people have life threatening reactions to (all) vaccines". As we now know, that sort of rhetoric isn't just silly and wrong, it's toxic and dangerous.

[janterry]

53. Yes she is

you are not in a position to judge someone you don't know.

SMH

[Major Nikon]

54. I called BS on an unbelievable anonymous claim

If it smells like bullshit, I'm calling bullshit. Your claim reeked of it.

[janterry]

55. don't be someone

who can't acknowledge their own limitations.

[Major Nikon]

56. Don't be someone

Who propagates anti-vax bullshit.

If you actually believe an entire family can't take all vaccines your limitation is you need to stop being so naive (assuming you didn't make up the whole story to begin with).

[janterry]

59. this is the internet

you are not being kind, wide-minded or science minded. A science minded person knows about black swans.
I'm very sorry for you, if that helps.

[Major Nikon]

60. Right you are!

This is the internet, and Pro-Tip: if you post BS, you should be prepared for someone to call BS on you.

I'm not sorry for you, if that helps.

[janterry]

66. Pro-tip!

Read Popper

(that is how science works)

[Major Nikon]

67. Kinda funny what your idea of "science" is

An alleged friend who was told by an alleged doctor that an entire family can’t take any vaccine because allegedly two people allegedly died from some undisclosed vaccine.

The fact you can’t let it go after getting bullshit called on you is very telling, btw. You obviously have a lot invested in selling your BS story, but unfortunately for you nobody is buying what you are selling.

[marie999]

69. You are calling people you do not know liars.

Bye

[Major Nikon]

70. Not all of us are so naive

Believe it or not, despite all we have been through, anti-vax BS still lives here.

[Violet_Crumble]

73. That would be because people they don't know are liars...

Not sure what yr problem is with that. People we don't know lie all the time. In this case the claim being made in this thread sounds like a bit of anti-vax bullshit. However, YMMV...

[lambchopp59]

15. Premedication protocols are available

I'm one of the multiple chemical sensitivity group, I was hospitalized twice after flu vaccines years ago, but here's what I discovered: it wasn't the vaccine, it was the heavy preservative when these were commonly drawn from multi-dose vials. Once I started seeking the low-preservative, single dose vaccines, nothing but very mild reactions easily countered by Benadryl.
Not suggesting this is the case universally by any stretch: for just about any substance there is, there are people allergic or sensitive to it.
It becomes a risk vs. benefit assessment that in the case of flu vaccines was more optional: I kept Tamiflu on hand, it has a 5 year shelf life. An allergy profile when I had good insurance coverage proved revealing about this.
Delta COVID is altogether another matter, the vaccine can be given at clinics near hospital ED, like the one I did, reassuring that I could get adverse reaction quickly intervened.
For individuals to firmly decide for themselves they'll risk COVID over a what-if scenario is a grisly gamble. There are options.

[RVN VET71]

30. I've a feeling -- and cold be wrong -- that had the woman presented the court

with medical documentation showing her inability to take any vaccine, the judge would have found a less severe way to keep the child safe AND permit some custody rights to the mother.

[MurrayDelph]

32. I have bad reactions to flu vaccines

but I am up-to-date on all of my others (and looking forward to my J&J booster), so I piggyback on other's herd immunity where flu is concerned, but do my part with other diseases.

(And please don't ask if I've tried the "new and improved flu shot; now with Retsin."; it's akin to the times before my alcohol intolerance was defined where the option is to try something in the hope it doesn't make me feel like I'm going to die).

[PSPS]

39. "there is nothing they can do but stay as safe as they can"

In such a case, the child would be safer with the father too. He's not punishing the mother. He's protecting the child.

[MichMan]

49. According to the logic of this judge, her children should be taken from her & visitation prohibited

[Jose Garcia]

52. She would still be a threat to her son's health and safety regardless of her reason

for being unvaccinated.

[womanofthehills]

63. So, her 11 yr old son goes to school with probably 500 unvaxxed kids

But he can’t see his mom. Since the CDC has been tracking numbers of kids deaths from Covid, under 400 kids from 5 to 18 have died. How does this make sense esp now that the vaxxed can carry high numbers of virus too.

When you guys were 11, how would you feel not being able to see your mom. There is a big psychological component here too.

[cstanleytech]

6. What does she mean by adverse? That she got a little sick? So what. If it was due to a

known severe potential for an allergic reaction to something in the vaccine that would be an entirely different issue but otherwise she needs the shot not just for her own safety but that of her son.

[Dream Girl]

13. Her arm gets sore.

[dreamland]

8. So the judge asked the parent whether she was willing to die for her son

Essentially that is what it comes down to, for these idiots. Getting a vaccine is equivalent to putting poison in their bodies. A better parent will be willing to sacrifice all for their child.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. My son's daughter's mother is refusing him visitation of

her since we had her vaccinated during the summer. She is 15 and wanted to be vaccinated. She spent the summer here by court order.
He'd go back to court, but they'd rule against him since it's Arksnsas that determined custody.
Her mother and half-sister refuse the vaccine.

[FakeNoose]

17. I heard that getting vaccinated makes you smarter

Funny how that happens!

[3Hotdogs]

18. New week, the judge gets presented with the counterfeit Rona vax certificate - Yours,

for $29.95, plus shipping and handling (don't forget the handling.)

[Loki Liesmith]

19. Not a fan of this

There are some enforcement mechanisms I won’t support. This is one

[ruet]

28. DU Likes Authoritarians When They Make Proclimations In Our Favor.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215799002

Judges have too much power and neither of these two are medical doctors.

[VarryOn]

61. I had the same thought...

He could have asked : Do you drink alcohol? Did you go to church on Sunday? Are you on antidepressants? Do you cuss? Any myriad of questions related to reasonable choices that any adult should have. She’s foolish for not having gotten vaccinated, but the judge’s taking away some of a parent’s rights for not having done so is dangerous precedent.

It doesn’t say, but I’m guessing the father is vaccinated. What if he hadn’t be vaccinated? Would the kid end up in foster care?

I don’t agree with how a lot of people raise their kids. Not my biz, though.

[wnylib]

22. For the skeptics, there really are

people who can't take some vaccines due to allergies to components of the vaccines. I am one of those people. I strongly believe in the value of vaccines and have had every one that I am able to have.

I was wary of the mRNA vaccines when I heard about negative reactions to them. But since there were epi pens at the vaccine site and a 15 minute waiting period, I got my 2 Moderna shots.

However, if I had a minor child in my care and could not get vaccinated against a pandemic viral disease, I would voluntarily allow someone I approved of to take custody of the child for the child's protection.

[flying_wahini]

24. She probably had a reaction to the old vaccines that had horse serum in it....

DPT and Tetanus and others were made from horses blood serum. TB tests, too.
I have reaction to them as well.

I always have a reaction but it is a tiny one. Looked more like mosquito bite.

Not a good reason to skip the vaccines.

[sarisataka]

25. There is a woman in our office

Who has a serious vaccine allergy. She desperately wants to get the covid vaccine but her doctor is saying the risk of neurological damage is much greater than the risk of covid. So we wear masks to protect her and do not advocate having her child taken away.

[PSPS]

40. "a serious vaccine allergy"

One doesn't have a "vaccine allergy." They may have an allergy to one of the components or ingredients used in the vaccination. The mRNA vaccines share very little with, say, a flu vaccine as far as its components or ingredients. What she's telling you about "her doctor saying" is probably not true.

[sarisataka]

42. Sorry for not using proper terminology

I'm just an average person without advanced medical education so sometimes those terms confuse me.

Yes it is an allergy to certain vaccine components.

Our kids were in school together so I have known her for over ten years. I have long known that she has health issues which prevent her from getting most vaccines, way before the world heard of covid. She wears masks religiously and both her husband and son are vaccinated. Frankly they are a bigger threat to her than the other way around.

[Steelrolled]

68. It's too bad that you have to defend her that way in DU.

There is so much black-and-while thinking and knee-jerk reactions here.

[DeeNice]

36. The judge overstepped.

She acted on the advice of her physician. She's one of the reasons everyone else needs to be vaccinated, right? Let's not shame her and punish her for her medical issues.

[PSPS]

41. I don't think so. The child will be safer with the vaccinated parent. It's that simple.

[reACTIONary]

44. In custody cases it is ...

... the responsibility of the judge to act in the best interest of the child. Doing so should not be construed as punishment. The kid is too young to be vaxed, so the mother is a potential danger that can be diminished by keeping custody with the father. She can still communicate with the child via video conference. That's not ideal, but it is better than endangering the kid.

[womanofthehills]

64. Judge reversed his decision - boy can be with his mom

[reACTIONary]

65. Thanks for the update! nt.

[iwannaknow]

71. Agree

100%

[LiberalFighter]

45. Nothing explaing what type of adverse reaction she receives from vaccines.

Most people probably receive some type of adverse reaction. It doesn't mean that the reaction was severe or a danger.

And she claims that her doctor advised her not to. I hope judges receive confirmation of such claim and maybe why he didn't consider it.

[truthisfreedom]

47. We can't lose sight of what we know about the vaccines

What they definitely do is increase the likelihood of survival and significantly reduce the likelihood of hospitalization.

They don’t stop the delta variant and they don’t keep anyone from being infectious, so by getting the vaccine she does not protect her child from getting sick. The child needs to be vaccinated, if that’s possible.

[Mosby]

57. I looked up vaccine allergy

https://www.everydayhealth.com/allergies/vaccine-allergy.aspx