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Fri Oct 15, 2021, 11:47 PM

Key to Biden's Climate Agenda Likely to Be Cut Because of Manchin Opposition

Source: nytimes



The West Virginia Democrat told the White House he is firmly against a clean electricity program that is the muscle behind the president’s plan to battle climate change.


Oct. 15, 2021

WASHINGTON — The most powerful part of President Biden’s climate agenda — a program to rapidly replace the nation’s coal- and gas-fired power plants with wind, solar and nuclear energy — will likely be dropped from the massive budget bill pending in Congress, according to congressional staffers and lobbyists familiar with the matter.

Senator Joe Manchin III, the Democrat from coal-rich West Virginia whose vote is crucial to passage of the bill, has told the White House that he strongly opposes the clean electricity program, according to three of those people. As a result, White House staffers are now rewriting the legislation without that climate provision, and are trying to cobble together a mix of other policies that could also cut emissions.

A White House spokesman, Vedant Patel, declined to comment on the specifics of the bill, saying, “the White House is laser focused on advancing the president’s climate goals and positioning the United States to meet its emission targets in a way that grows domestic industries and good jobs.”

A spokeswoman for Mr. Manchin, Sam Runyon, wrote in an email, “Senator Manchin has clearly expressed his concerns about using taxpayer dollars to pay private companies to do things they’re already doing. He continues to support efforts to combat climate change while protecting American energy independence and ensuring our energy reliability.”


West Virginia’s other senator, Republican Shelley Moore Capito, said she was “vehemently opposed” to the clean electricity program because it is “designed to ultimately eliminate coal and natural gas from our electricity mix, and would be absolutely devastating for my state.”

The $150 billion clean electricity program was the muscle behind Mr. Biden’s ambitious climate agenda. It would reward utilities that switched from burning fossil fuels to renewable energy sources, and penalize those that do not.............................................

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/15/climate/biden-clean-energy-manchin.html




Oh crap!!! crap; crap.




?s=20

Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, has told the White House he opposes the clean electricity program, several officials and lobbyists said.Credit...T.J. Kirkpatrick for The New York Times
Coral Davenport






?s=20

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Reply Key to Biden's Climate Agenda Likely to Be Cut Because of Manchin Opposition (Original post)
riversedge Oct 15 OP
PoliticAverse Oct 16 #1
DENVERPOPS Oct 16 #41
FailureToCommunicate Oct 16 #49
napi21 Oct 16 #2
certainot Oct 16 #21
sop Oct 16 #3
riversedge Oct 16 #4
Magoo48 Oct 17 #50
wcmagumba Oct 16 #5
azureblue Oct 16 #34
24601 Oct 17 #56
vercetti2021 Oct 16 #6
aggiesal Oct 16 #7
The Fifty Stateman Oct 16 #8
Salviati Oct 16 #13
azureblue Oct 16 #35
Moebym Oct 16 #9
Justice matters. Oct 16 #12
Rhiannon12866 Oct 16 #10
Trueblue1968 Oct 16 #11
Moebym Oct 16 #14
Jon King Oct 16 #15
jimfields33 Oct 16 #19
SKKY Oct 16 #16
BumRushDaShow Oct 16 #17
luv2fly Oct 16 #18
Lonestarblue Oct 16 #20
OldBaldy1701E Oct 16 #27
LymphocyteLover Oct 16 #31
OldBaldy1701E Oct 17 #52
EndlessWire Oct 16 #44
OldBaldy1701E Oct 17 #51
LymphocyteLover Oct 17 #57
Deminpenn Oct 16 #22
Beastly Boy Oct 16 #23
LymphocyteLover Oct 16 #24
malthaussen Oct 16 #26
Beastly Boy Oct 16 #29
LymphocyteLover Oct 16 #32
Beastly Boy Oct 16 #36
LymphocyteLover Oct 16 #42
Beastly Boy Oct 16 #46
LymphocyteLover Oct 16 #48
malthaussen Oct 16 #39
Beastly Boy Oct 16 #40
LymphocyteLover Oct 16 #43
Beastly Boy Oct 16 #47
malthaussen Oct 17 #54
Botany Oct 16 #25
Orrex Oct 16 #28
LymphocyteLover Oct 16 #30
uncle ray Oct 16 #33
Bayard Oct 16 #37
Post removed Oct 16 #38
EndlessWire Oct 16 #45
orangecrush Oct 17 #53
jimmyzvoice Oct 17 #55

Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:10 AM

1. The guy literally makes money from coal. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 03:49 PM

41. No kidding

He has been collecting 500K in salary or dividends every year from the dirtiest "dirty coal" industry in his state......
Further proving the link between Donors and the Voting on issues.

It is ludicrous, totally ridiculous and infuriating that one or two people can hold the entire country hostage on every major issue........
Especially issues that may render the earth from the human population.........

My blood pressure soars whenever I hear some old Republican say: "No problem, I am gonna be out of here before that happens."
They must not have children or grandchildren, or simply don't care about anyone except themselves. Period......

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #41)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 07:04 PM

49. Okay, so couldn't someone just pay him off with

that much cash, and get him out of the way of blocking things that might save the f-ing planet!?!

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:15 AM

2. I didn't think of it until tonight but I now realize why JM has been fighting this bill for so long.

e's the Senator from W Va. which is the heart of coal country. The climate funding in this bill woulkd go a lon g way toward eliminating our dependence on COAL, and lots of JM's supporters are coal miners. I don't know if there was or could be something to retrain thopse miners when their jobs are eliminated, but if there was something it was never mentioned in public that I know of.

Although JM never said what he was holding out for, I'm convinced climate was his biggest objection.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 06:54 AM

21. manchin, GOP are committing political suicide. his supporters are dittoheads and limbaugh is dead

in 2009 putin used limbaugh and a russian hack to create 'climategate' to derail obama at copenhagen

much of that same "climategate was proof global warming is a hoax" denial still powers the GOP and the part of manchin constituency he is using now to enable his doing putin's work.

analysts missed the seismic event that was libaugh death and now manchin and the GOP are walking off a cliff - limbaugh guided central GOP messaging, excusing, and intimidation on 1500 radio stations from his 600 stations and now it's all broken up.

manchins leverage is fake, biden should be reminding him trumpism and the GOP he threatens to join rot with limbaugh.

bidenn should tell him he's committing pollitical and reputational suicide and it will happen fast when the gulf stream stops and europe's temps drop 5 or 10 degrees

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:15 AM

3. Of course, Manchin only represents the interests of his state's extractive energy industries.

He doesn't care about the rest of the country, or even the people in his state. We no longer live in a representative democracy. Corporate special interests control most of our elected officials at every level.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:20 AM

4. "Please, design a system where one compromised individual can derail the hopes of a generation."....

I am feeling this also. Rather hopeless right now.


Please, design a system where one compromised individual can derail the hopes of a generation.

?s=20

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Response to riversedge (Reply #4)

Sun Oct 17, 2021, 06:57 AM

50. Yes, the system is sick and dying.

Greed, corruption, and deceit are feasting like carrion on road kill, and it’s all because the “system”, at this point in time, is a broken down and manipulated joke.

The 1% party on, blinded by their disease while the world is petrified in place by the systems we believe are our own.

Why do we endlessly fiddle, concede, and shuffle backwards, hat in hand while the fires rage at all of our backs.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:31 AM

5. Some analyst on MSNBC estimated there are about 10,000 people employed...

by the coal industry in WV, that plus related jobs/suppliers and other would be more. This is a lot of jobs but WV has an 18 and older population of about 1.5 million. Those folks can be retrained and get other jobs. As others have pointed out JM doesn't care about those people, he cares about the oligarchs who own the coal and energy companies (including himself).

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Response to wcmagumba (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 09:28 AM

34. how to change his mind

Investigate his daughter's drug company, for abusive inflating of drug prices. Manchin will get the message.

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Response to azureblue (Reply #34)

Sun Oct 17, 2021, 10:42 AM

56. If the administration takes this path, what's to stop JM from jumping parties and making McConnell

the majority leader?

He can do it as an an independent and joining the Repub caucus, mirroring Sanders and King.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:33 AM

6. Goddamn it

Fine take it out and then run on this and see if we can win more Senate seats and retain the house and then get a meaningful climate bill in there. There really is no fucking other option

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:37 AM

7. I knew that the (R)'s would try to make Biden look bad, ...

but why should they bother, when they have Manchin to do it for them.

(D)'s won't be able to leverage off (R)'s obstruction strategy, with
Manchin giving them cover.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 01:00 AM

8. Manchin has to cater to the Delusion

 

"Oh yeah! Coal is coming back! Stronger than ever!"

As long as enough West Virginians believe that soma, Manchin is stuck.

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Response to The Fifty Stateman (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 01:46 AM

13. The thing is, they don't.

Manchin is not opposing this because it's unpopular with his constituents. The 3.5 trillion dollar BBB plan has a margin of support of +22 with likely republican voters in WV, +43 with likely voters overall.

60% support the clean energy expansion, only 32% oppose it.

It's not so much that Manchin is stuck with WV, at the moment WV is stuck with Manchin, just like we are.



https://www.filesforprogress.org/memos/build-back-better-wv.pdf

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Response to The Fifty Stateman (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 09:31 AM

35. it's the coal barons

that keep pushing this. They refuse to diversify or retrain, so they are like buggy whip companies. Coal is a dead end business and they know it.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 01:16 AM

9. I'm surprised to find no one here calling for the all or nothing approach.

It's the ACA fight all over again in that one faction would rather see the whole package go down than accept cuts to bring all 50 senators aboard. They'd rather punish the American people with nothing just to get back at recalcitrant conservative Dems than give their fellow Dems and their Dem president something to run on in '22 and beyond, even if it's not as much as they'd have liked.

Well, guess what? If these stubborn warring factions keep up this stalemate and consequently deliver nothing to the American people, the American people will punish us right back by kicking Dems' asses at the polls, at which point we can say goodbye to Biden's entire agenda and any chance for the progressive change Bernie and his faction keep harping about in front of any and all cameras they can find.

I'm tired.

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Response to Moebym (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 01:35 AM

12. "the American people will punish us right back"

Yeah, because the other party will give it to us!

There is no way the American people will instead elect more progressive Dems so Manchin and Sinema would have no power to take life-on-earth hostage because they get money from the planet killers. Sad.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 01:29 AM

10. Twitter reply:

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 01:34 AM

11. can't type what i think about Manchin, I would get in trouble.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 01:48 AM

14. I'm surprised to find no one here calling for the all or nothing approach.

It's the ACA fight all over again in that one faction would rather see the whole package go down than accept cuts to bring all 50 senators aboard. They'd rather punish the American people with nothing just to get back at recalcitrant conservative Dems than give their fellow Dems and their Dem president something to run on in '22 and beyond, even if it's not as much as they'd have liked.

Well, guess what? If these stubborn warring factions keep up this stalemate and consequently deliver nothing to the American people, the American people will punish us right back by kicking Dems' asses at the polls, at which point we can say goodbye to Biden's entire agenda and any chance for the progressive change Bernie and his faction keep harping about.

And then there's the misdirected anger at Schumer and Pelosi for not doing what random strangers on Democratic Internet forums insist they do.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 02:09 AM

15. The Senate and electoral college systems guarantee the end of humanity on earth.

Gives too much power to a minority who believe in the Rapture so could care less about Earth. A Senator representing .5% of the US population can control the fate of the climate. Humans are going to destroy the very planet they live upon....so a tiny state can have coal revenue.

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Response to Jon King (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 06:18 AM

19. The bill needs 50 votes. There's 100 senators

1/2 plus VP is majority. 49 votes is actually the minority if Manchin were to not vote for it.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 03:24 AM

16. It seems like there is a lot we could get done on clean energy...

...without necessarily killing coal and natural gas. I mean, they're both on the decline. Perhaps work on electric cars, solar expansion, etc, and let coal die out slowly? Not sure we have any other option if we want Manchin's support.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 05:42 AM

17. I grew up in a state (PA)

where we learned about the coal produced here in school and were told that it was supposedly the "more desirable" anthracite. My high school had actually been constructed in the late '50s as a replacement for the original piece of junk building (that my mother went to when the high school was there in the '40s and that I later went to in early '70s for middle school and junior high), where the "new" building was made to use coal for heat to support PA coal and had a coal chute. At some point it was replaced.

Then looking it up I found this from one of the agencies that monitors this - https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=69&t=2

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

Which states produce the most coal?

In 2020, about 535.4 million short tons of coal were produced in 23 states. Five states produced a total of about 380.1 million short tons, or about 71% of total U.S. coal production. The five largest coal-producing states with production in million short tons and their percentage shares of total U.S. coal production in 2020 were:

Wyoming—218.6—40.8%
West Virginia—67.2—12.6%
Pennsylvania—36.3—6.8%
Illinois—31.6—5.9%
North Dakota—26.4—4.9%


(snip)


I had no idea. Wyoming????????????? I don't think I ever really recall that state being referenced much except maybe from pics of strip mining. At least here on the east coast, it's always been framed as "Appalachian coal mining".

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 05:43 AM

18. Hug your kids and grandkids

The world being left for them will be largely uninhabitable.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 06:24 AM

20. The world needs the US to lead on climate issues because we are a big polluter.

So is china because of their reliance on coal. But if we fail to do anything significant, the world will look at us and think they don’t need to do anything about green energy either.

Those coal jobs in West Virginia can be replaced with safer jobs for workers manufacturing solar panels, wind turbine blades and systems, and batteries as well as training people to become solar panel installers and technicians installing and maintaining wind turbines. I would think the hills of West Virginia would be good places to install wind turbines.

Of course, none of those jobs would keep money coming in for Manchin from coal production. His response is truly dispiriting.

I heard someone on NPR yesterday from Louisiana saying that Biden needs to declare a climate emergency, and that would give him some power to go around Congress. I didn’t get the man’s name, but he was talking about how devastating it has been to the Louisiana people and its economy to have five major storms—Katrina plus four more. If Trump could take billions from the military budget and use it for a stupid wall, why couldn’t Biden do the same but use it for the electricity program that Manchin refuses to support?

And we all know that if Republicans take control of either house of Congress after 2022, not only is Biden’s agenda dead but nothing will be done on the climate crisis for years since it might cost the Koch industries a tiny percentage of their billions.

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Response to Lonestarblue (Reply #20)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 08:52 AM

27. With all due respect, the first part of the title scares me to no end.

I sincerely hope the world does not need us to lead them on anything. That is just rampant American ego talking. The only thing the world needs to do is watch what is happening here so that they don't make the same mistakes.

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Response to OldBaldy1701E (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 09:03 AM

31. the fact is the world DOES need the US to lead. And morally we should.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #31)

Sun Oct 17, 2021, 07:45 AM

52. Like I said, frightening. (n/t)

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Response to OldBaldy1701E (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 04:47 PM

44. Like it or not

we pitiful Americans ARE looked at for leadership. We've had none for the last 4 years, and you could see the other countries start to decay. Now we have a really good leader, and we expect--no, we demand--that he step up and fix as many problems as he can. This climate business is serious sh*t. We MUST do something to meet the challenge. Countries must stick together and do something coordinated to help the survival of all.

I'll be honest, I am not 100% sure that it is the human race, and only the human race, that is causing the climate shift. I think that we might be in the midst of a natural cycle. But, to me that doesn't mean that we should trash the planet and do nothing to help ourselves. ALL alternate technology should be explored. Here at DU, we are not allowed to talk against any Democrat. I think Manchin should be an exception. I am damned tired of hearing him stand in the way of good ideas just for his own personal good.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #44)

Sun Oct 17, 2021, 07:44 AM

51. Well, when you rig the game in your favor, people kind of have to look to you for guidance

To navigate the imposed structures. I agree that things need to be done about what is happening to our world. I personally think that we need to start thinking more about surviving what is happening that trying to alter the planet, which is beyond our capabilities at the moment. Of course, every single concession to big business shows that there is not quite the fervor that we need from our governments, but that is another story.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #44)

Sun Oct 17, 2021, 01:05 PM

57. well there may be other factors there seems no doubt that carbon pollution from human activity

is the main driver, or a huge part of it and it's certainly the part we have the most influence over.

Burning fossil fuels for energy is just so primitive and dirty and we can do better.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 06:59 AM

22. It's interesting that Manchin actually acknowleges that

business and industry are moving away from coal.

“Senator Manchin has clearly expressed his concerns about using taxpayer dollars to pay private companies to do things they’re already doing. He continues to support efforts to combat climate change while protecting American energy independence and ensuring our energy reliability.”


To me it would be easy enough to put a mandate in the bill and remove the subsidy since the senator is worried about "taxpayer dollares".

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 07:31 AM

23. Why is no one mentioning the other 50 Senators who are in opposition to Biden's climate agenda?

While we are all fixated on Manchin, the real problem is the 50 Republican senators who are determined to sink Biden's agenda in its entirety. But don't look there - give all the attention to Manchin! A cheap magician's slight of hand.

There used to be a hint of bipartisanship in the Senate on matter of national significance. Not anymore.

Manchin is just one senator. There are 50 more who are completely escaping any scrutiny or criticism. Mission accomplished, Mr. Minority Leader! It's all a Democrat's fault!

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #23)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 07:50 AM

24. Exactly! I was going to say-- it's easy to dump on Manchin. But not ONE fucking Republican

-- not ONE!!! cares about life on earth. It's so fucking sick and completely maddening.

They are all in a death cult. Fucking evil monsters.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #23)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 08:22 AM

26. Uh, Mr Manchin's statement does just that.

From the wording, his office apparently finds those "52 other senators" to have reasonable objections.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 08:59 AM

29. So, it takes Manchin's office to state the obvious. And we are still fixated on Manchin.

It appears to me that, for fairness' sake, the 50 Republican senators who are doing their best to derail Biden's agenda should be getting at least 50 times the criticism that Manchin gets. If DU is any indication, the direct opposite is the case. Manchin gets at least 50 times the criticism of the combined total of the other 50 Republican senators, which for all practical purposes amounts to the aforementioned senators, all of them Republicans, getting away with derailing Biden's agenda with virtually no criticism, while Manchin, a Democrat, gets the lion's share of it.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #29)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 09:06 AM

32. yes but in theory Manchin *should* be on our side and be willing to do this

Everyone knows Republicans suck.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 09:45 AM

36. Manchin is on "his" side. Just like AOC is on "her" side.

Manchin just happens to be in a better position to move the agenda to his side at the expense of Biden’s agenda. In this respect, as much as I hate beating a dead horse, he sucks as much as the Republicans suck, although probably less so. This has been established long ago and repeated ad nauseum ever since without any apparent effect.

My point is that regardless of how conclusively one’s suckery is established, it doesn’t entitle one to escape criticism, especially not at the expense of a single less culpable target of choice being universally dumped on.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #36)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 04:44 PM

42. I can't argue with that, but it's pretty awful how completely immune he seems to be from

public opinion

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #42)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 04:58 PM

46. He is certainly taking advantage of his position as a dealbreaker to the fullest.

He probably never expected to be in this position, but now that he is, he is squeezing every drop out of his power trip. He is, after all, a politician.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #46)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 06:54 PM

48. A politician when he should be a public servant

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #29)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 10:58 AM

39. Mr Manchin is considered an ally.

Or maybe "hoped to be an ally" is more appropriate. It is reasonable to excoriate those who are expected to help, more than those who are not. The Republicans are just being Republicans. Mr Manchin's actions have the flavor of betrayal. That the hope is unreasonable does not make the sting any less.

Particularly in a Democratic venue, where it is assumed that the GOP are beyond redemption, any criticism of them is a waste of effort. When someone ostensibly of the same party jumps ship, it is more to be deplored.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #39)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 12:42 PM

40. A well reasoned response, were Manchin's stance unknown to Dems.

We’ve had months of Manchin standing his ground, so talk of betrayal, which suggests surprise towards sudden and unexpected change of allegiance, is hardly applicable today.

I would also suggest that expectations of help from Manchin were unrealistically high to begin with. He is an ally, and he is still expected to help to a degree which suits HIM( as opposed to the republicans who are not expected to help at all), but he is, his ideological animosity towards progressives notwithstanding, hardly an unmitigated villain whose agenda is to sabotage Biden’s presidency.

Yet, Manchin’s treachery is extensively cited, despite of fifty other more evident reasons, as THE reason for undermining Biden’s agenda. Just because Republican senators are expected to be scumbags, doesn’t make them immune from being responsible.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #40)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 04:47 PM

43. Nonetheless, this is no ordinary legislation & the stakes for all of our future could not be higher

So it's particularly aggravating.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #40)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 05:02 PM

47. Aggravating for sure.

But he is not the exclusive cause for my aggravation, and not the biggest one.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Reply #47)

Sun Oct 17, 2021, 10:14 AM

54. If Mr Manchin were a dependable ally...

... then we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's why his intransigence is provoking. I agree, though, his stance is nothing sudden. What I find interesting is his official release implicitly aligning himself with the GOP, as if the "52 other Senators" had reasoned arguments for opposing the legislation, rather than just acting as always to block anything the Democrats want to do. It suggests that his reasons are not substantive, either.

-- Mal

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 08:05 AM

25. Coal is all but dead or dying as an energy source in America

The utility companies have spent billions of $s switching their power plants from coal to
gas and they are not going back. Even the coal miners in W.V. know that the days of
coal are #ed and many former coal miners there and in the surrounding states have been
working on natural gas production and the conversions of the electric power plants from
coal to gas. BTW I had conversations about this very topic with people who had worked
coal and or had family that had or are now working coal in Prince, WV in the fall of 2019.

The fossil fuel businesses and trade associations nationwide (not just W.V.) are spending
billions of to stop the "clean energy" part of President Biden's infrastructure plan and
Manchin is their man. We might have to pass the infrastructure plan without the green
energy parts and then elect more Ds in 2022 after which the green energy parts can
be put back into action.



Those few buildings on the far side of the New River is beautiful downtown Prince, WV.


BTW the new clean energy jobs and projects are also being stopped by all those republican
senators including OH's Rob Portman who as a young man took the Rio Grande from Colorado
to the Gulf of Mexico and still turned out to be a dick.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 08:55 AM

28. Per the TOS, I wouldn't dream of bashing a Democrat

But I heard about this one guy, Moe Janchin, who’s a complete fucking asshole.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 09:06 AM

33. nobody even wants joe's coal.

even conservative colorado springs has decommissioned one coal plant this year, and the other is set to be decommissioned in less than ten years...in favor of renewables.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 09:52 AM

37. Climate is the most important issue in this bill

Without addressing it, the rest will not mean much long-term.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sat Oct 16, 2021, 04:57 PM

45. I remember during Hillary's campaign

that she told the coal miners that they could be retrained to work in newer technologies. The bytes were from those who said they had been coal miners for generations and they declined to change. Really short sighted and selfish. And stupid. Life is all about change. Change and move forward. Attitude counts.

I hope that his constituents examine his positions and reject him next time around. We may not have the time, however. Can we treat JM as a wannabe Rethug? We are all breaking the TOS, but it is hard to talk about the news without coming down on the wrong side because of this guy and his totally obstructionist voting.

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Response to riversedge (Original post)

Sun Oct 17, 2021, 10:26 AM

55. Senator Manchin is a DINO

We should start calling Manchin a DINO, "Democrat In Name Only"

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