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Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:15 PM

New Reconstruction Points to Animal Origins for Covid-19

Source: The Wall Street Journal.

WORLD ASIA CHINA

New Reconstruction Points to Animal Origins for Covid-19

An evolutionary biologist reviewed data and reports on first known cases to show most were clustered around Wuhan’s seafood market

By Betsy McKay
https://twitter.com/betswrites
betsy.mckay@wsj.com
Updated Nov. 18, 2021 2:31 pm ET

A scientist known for investigating viral origins has reconstructed the first known weeks of the Covid-19 pandemic, adding to a growing body of evidence that the virus behind it jumped from infected animals to humans rather than emerging from laboratory research.

In a paper published Thursday in the academic journal Science, Michael Worobey concludes a wholesale seafood market in Wuhan, China, where live mammals were sold is very likely to be the site of the origin of the pandemic.

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Read more: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-reconstruction-points-to-animal-origins-for-covid-19-11637262041



A scientist known for investigating viral origins concluded that Covid-19 likely jumped to humans from animals, with early transmission at a Wuhan market where live raccoon dogs were sold


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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply New Reconstruction Points to Animal Origins for Covid-19 (Original post)
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 25 OP
Bayard Nov 25 #1
jmowreader Nov 26 #7
Larissa Nov 25 #2
Igel Nov 25 #3
Omaha Steve Nov 25 #4
pansypoo53219 Nov 25 #5
WHITT Nov 26 #6
LisaL Nov 26 #8
WHITT Nov 26 #10
LisaL Nov 26 #13
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 26 #14
WHITT Nov 26 #15
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 26 #17
WHITT Nov 26 #21
Rural_Progressive Nov 26 #9
WHITT Nov 26 #11
LisaL Nov 26 #12
WHITT Nov 26 #16
Rural_Progressive Nov 26 #19
Rural_Progressive Nov 26 #18
WHITT Nov 26 #20

Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 06:53 PM

1. Paywall

Do they EAT this dogs? I can't imagine!

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Response to Bayard (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 02:47 PM

7. They had stopped eating them...

…until the placeholder between the Obama and Biden Administrations decided to start a trade war with China. With no US pork available, they went back to eating small animals.

Without the need to eat small animals, the coronavirus would not have made the jump to humans. And without Trump allowing 40,000 people to fly to the US from China in the early days before we had testing, the virus could have been contained.

Therefore, the pandemic is 100 percent Trump’s fault.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 07:52 PM

2. Journalist goes undercover at "wet markets", where the Coronavirus started

From CNN Australia March 8, 2020

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 09:40 PM

3. The problem is it's circumstantial.

It relies on the cases attested elsewhere as having been transmitted from the market by means of asymptomatic carriers. Certainly possible.

On the other hand, it's possible that a superspreader worked in that part of the market, or happened to be there and spent a lot of time there at the right time. Meaning that the virus walked into the market--perhaps in somebody symptomatic, perhaps in an asymptomatic carrier.

What they need is some evidence showing that the virus was somehow adapted specifically to this particular critter. I haven't see n that claim yet.

I'm trying to say that I recall one family that was infected (early evidence for human-to-human transmission) had more than one person connected to the market. But I don't know that I recall that being confirmed or if it was a bit of missed-information, something claimed given some rumor but dismissed as false a few days later. Fog of war and all that.

It also goes against a few things. It resets the timeline for the "first known case" later than two other proposed "first known cases," if I recall correctly. One first case was in mid-November, the other on/about Dec. 1. Hadn't heard that the early first identified cases were debunked.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 10:17 PM

4. Kick


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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Thu Nov 25, 2021, 11:08 PM

5. they mapped the 1st deaths. closer to the animal market. therefore the animal market. duh

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 01:28 PM

6. The WSJ Drags Out The Dead Horse

to beat on it some more.

Wuhan MAY well have been the initial location of the outbreak WITHIN CHINA, but China WAS NOT the "origin of the pandemic", as cases were documented much earlier in Europe, not to mention the strain that infected New York originated in Europe, not China.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 04:30 PM

8. Earliest documented case in Europe was in January of 2020.

NT

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Response to LisaL (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 05:36 PM

10. Where Ya Been?

Cases documented in Italy in September 2019, and evidence of cases in Spain even before that. Earliest cases in China were later.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 05:44 PM

13. What cases?

NT

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Response to WHITT (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 05:45 PM

14. Can you cite a source for that? All I've come up with so far is

maybe, maybe not.

For instance:

How early was the coronavirus really circulating in Italy?

By Yasemin Saplakoglu November 18, 2020

A new study suggests as early as September of last year, but some experts are skeptical.

The new coronavirus may have been circulating in Italy since September 2019, months before the first official case was detected in the country, according to a new study from Italy. But public health experts say that more analysis is needed for that timeline to be confirmed.

The World Health Organization's China office first picked up the scent of a mysterious cluster of pneumonia cases in the city of Wuhan from local media statements on Dec. 31 and rang the alarm bells at the start of the new year, according to the WHO's timeline. Scientists later traced the first known case of COVID-19 in Wuhan back to Nov. 17, 2019, Live Science previously reported.

But the actual pandemic timeline — from the moment the virus hopped from animals to humans to when it first crossed international borders — remains murky. Italy, one of the worst-hit countries in Europe during the first wave of the virus, recorded its first local case on Feb. 20 in Lombardy, a region in northern Italy. That case suggested that the virus had been circulating in Italy since January of this year, according to the new study published on Nov. 11 in the Tumori Journal.

{snip}

"I would be very cautious," about these findings, said Dr. George Rutherford, professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco, who was also not a part of the study. The results "have to be confirmed with different antibody tests," that look for the prevalence of antibodies that target other parts of the coronavirus.

{snip}

Something more recent would help.

Thanks.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 08:26 PM

15. I Love

the "some experts are skeptical" shit.

These are the same clowns that are trying to sell the stand-on-your-head-and-rub-your-tummy conspiracy that the virus was created in/escaped from a lab, without a scintilla of evidence, yet they are "skeptical" of actual scientific evidence.

Here's the original cite:

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-timing/researchers-find-coronavirus-was-circulating-in-italy-earlier-than-thought-idUSKBN27W1J2

and the Italian scientists published a round two, addressing and debunking the fake criticisms and skepticism, which is also posted here somewhere.



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Response to WHITT (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 08:52 PM

17. Can you find round two? It would help. Thanks.

and the Italian scientists published a round two, addressing and debunking the fake criticisms and skepticism, which is also posted here somewhere.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 11:24 PM

21. It's Old News

That was a year ago. You're a little late.



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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 05:30 PM

9. Long, short, and middle of this issue

We will never know. The CCP has destroyed all the information and material needed to figure anything out about the origin and etiology of this strain of virus.

End.Of.Story

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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 05:37 PM

11. Moot

Cases in Europe well before China.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 05:43 PM

12. Apparently you know more than a scientist publishing in Science.

NT

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Response to LisaL (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 08:28 PM

16. I'm Afraid Not

Apparently you haven't been paying attention, as this was all laid out in a number of previous threads.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 09:08 PM

19. Sure don't but thanks to my background and my wife's work

we know folks who do know a whole lot about this whole mess.

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Response to WHITT (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 09:07 PM

18. Cases in Europe before 2012?

Because there is line of evidence suggesting this whole thing started in a copper mine in Yunnan province back then.

Like I said, with the coverup the CCP instigated there will never be a clear line of evidence that will pinpoint how this whole sh*tshow actually started.

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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 26, 2021, 11:21 PM

20. Nope

Because there is line of evidence suggesting this whole thing started in a copper mine in Yunnan province back then.

No there isn't.


Like I said, with the coverup the CCP instigated there will never be a clear line of evidence that will pinpoint how this whole sh*tshow actually started.

The U.S. wouldn't be cooperating with a bogus investigation that started at another time and in another country, I don't get why some folks expect China to do so. You can't coverup something that never happened.

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