Justice Coney Barrett questions if adoption laws could eliminate the 'burden' of parenthood for abor

[Polybius]

Source: Business Insider

Justice Coney Barrett questions if adoption laws could eliminate the 'burden' of parenthood for abortion seekers

Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett raised questions about the impact of safe haven laws during Supreme Court arguments about a Mississippi abortion law; the outcome of which could overturn Roe V. Wade.

The case, Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization — which focuses on a 2018 Mississippi law — threatens abortion rights established during the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling.

The Mississippi law bans abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy, despite the Roe ruling which bars states from banning abortions prior to the 24-week mark — near the viability stage of pregnancy when a fetus is commonly able to sustain itself outside of the uterus.

"I have a question about safe haven laws. You can terminate parental rights by relinquishing a child after giving birth. The cases emphasized the burden of parenting. But women don't have to parent if they don't want to! Why don't safe haven laws take care of that?" asked Barrett, who has seven kids, two of whom are adopted.

Read more: https://www.businessinsider.com/amy-coney-barrett-asks-safe-haven-laws-solutions-unwanted-motherhood-2021-12

[elleng]

1. One might think that, a woman with 7 children, would understand something more

about the challenges of parenting. (Sorry that neither of her female colleagues on the Court have children.)

'In 1999, Barrett married fellow Notre Dame Law School graduate Jesse M. Barrett, a partner at SouthBank Legal – LaDue Curran & Kuehn LLC, in South Bend, Indiana,[211] and a law professor at Notre Dame Law School.[212] Previously, Jesse Barrett had worked as an Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Indiana for 13 years.[213] The couple lives in South Bend and has seven children, two of whom were adopted from Haiti, one in 2005 and one after the 2010 Haiti earthquake.[33][214] Their youngest biological child has Down syndrome.[215]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Coney_Barrett

Something peculiar?

'Barrett is a practicing Catholic.[216] Since birth, she has been a member of the Christian parachurch community People of Praise,[217] an ecumenical covenant community founded in South Bend. Associated with the Catholic charismatic renewal movement but not formally affiliated with the Catholic Church,[218][219][220] about 90% of its approximately 1,700 members are Catholic.[218][220] In People of Praise, Barrett has served as a laypastoral women's leader known as a "handmaiden".[221][222'

[SunSeeker]

4. She's rich and has nannies.

She has no idea what poor, or even middle class women go through. Or rape victims go through. Or what it's like to carry a nonviable fetus to term against your will. And she was lucky with her pregnancies, they did not cause her medical complications, and she had a sedentary job that she could do while pregnant. And she had good health insurance. She has no idea what pregnancy means to the average woman or teen.

[quaint]

35. +++

[Historic NY]

39. With thousands of children here in the US she adopted from Haiti

Ask yourself why are they more deserving than here. I have relatives Catholics that adopted from Siberia from an orphanage a kid with various fetal alcohol problems etc. A network of Catholics promoting foreign adoptions. They finally found out after 24yrs that all that money spent on payoffs to the network and Siberian officials, along with various treatment here have proven costly. They have not permitted the child to reside with them anymore. Even a priest uncle has abandoned him.

[haele]

68. That's because it's harder to adopt from secular adoption services

And adopting children from foreign services is not only cheaper, there's less of a chance the birth parents or kin might come looking for the baby later on, especially if the foreign agency they adopted from was basically selling kids put into their care by working parents or "social services" when there was no other option to leaving the kids home alone for a period of time. If the family couldn't pay for the kids care, these organizations just sell them to whomever pays the asking price.
This used to happen in the US. Families would buy "orphans" from the big cities to be raised as farm help or servants, all the while parading those kids around as some sort of "good deed". I don't know if that in some communities, it still occurs, bit it wouldn't surprise me one bit

She and her husband bought those kids, for whatever reason. I'm not saying what it is, but I'm wondering why this well to do family didn't adopt locally or from the US, where there are just as many deserving kids who really need a stable, loving family.

Haele

[Captain Zero]

74. Putin unloaded a lot of FAS and other unhealthy kids on us.

When the Soviet Union broke up. Should have been our first clue.
Can't say how I know that.

[Hekate]

86. Romania's "orphans" had a lot of psychological issues with abandonment and inability to attach, too

[Texin]

43. She's from a wealthy family.

And "rich people aren't like you and me", as said by Nick Caraway in Gatsby. The point she failed to grasp is the fact that pregnancy and birth creates an economic burden on people. There're medical expenses and the cost of having a baby in the hospital. And there isn't one hospital I've heard of since the 90s that didn't require a maternity patient to pay upfront for having a baby in hospital before the baby is even due to be born! That means the poor and those women who have no family support system are going to carrying pregnancies without medical oversight and god only knows where they'll go into labor.

Oh, I guess the mother can go the local charity hospital and try to get into one of their labor rooms. The county taxpayers can foot the bill. No big deal.

[Farmer-Rick]

57. And who pays the bill when a woman's pregnancy goes deadly wrong?

A poor woman who doesn't want a child, is forced to carry this unwanted fetus to term. Then she gets placenta previa, preclampsia or has an ectopic pregnancy, any of which will kill her and the unwanted fetus.

Guess who will pay? Not the government who demands the woman carry that unwanted fetus to term. If the government forces pregnancies on women the government should pay for all medical issues concerning the unwanted fetus and the unwilling mother.

And who pays for the funerals if the unwilling mother dies from carrying an unwanted fetus?

[Texin]

67. That would be the hospital district and county taxpayers. You and I.

[Farmer-Rick]

80. Yup

Creating forced pregnancy laws makes us all responsible for those women who would die from those forced pregnancies.

[IzzaNuDay]

2. She's tone deaf!

She thinks just because she adopted 2 kids from Haiti means everyone can afford to adopt a child. Has she paid any attention to the number of foster children?

[certainot]

3. dumbshit authoritarian asshole. she has such little love she thinks it's okay that

a rape victim should be forced to hand a fetus to strangers

[Texin]

44. She's an asshole for even suggesting that a rape victim be FORCED to birth a rape baby.

[TomDaisy]

5. she is an idiot

[monkeyman1]

6. And this is a god damn S.C. JUDGE - give me a damn break !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Solly Mack]

7. Like the burden - yes, burden - of carrying a fetus for 10 months is nothing.

If you don't want to be pregnant, then forced pregnancy is a burden - physically, emotionally, financially.

If you don't want to carry the offspring of your rapist, then forced pregnancy is a burden and then some.

But women don't have to parent if they don't want to!

Too right. She can choose to have an abortion.

Fucking religious wackadoodle.

[LT Barclay]

8. Remember, she clerked for Scalia. So her mind is already made up, so she is just looking for ways

to twist reality to support her established conclusion.
She'll probably do this on her way out of the courtroom after the decision (see at 1:24, I couldn't find a clip of that bastard doing it).

[Corgigal]

9. Must still live in the 1950s.

Women today don’t need a child to prove they are a woman. I have two daughters, they don’t want any kids. I understand that.

[H2O Man]

10. The Stepford Justice.

[jaxexpat]

23. The one who thinks it's just a matter of spit on a finger to tame the odd, unruly tress.

Special place in heck waiting for this one.

[Joinfortmill]

27. 👍

[Hekate]

87. Well spotted

[bringthePaine]

11. irrelevant! postulates remedial legislation not in evidence, thus clearly not

germane to any iteration of issue of law before the court! (but that could just be the weed talkin'...the defense rests...)

[pfitz59]

12. Its all about raping a woman all over again

forcing a woman to bear her rapists demon spawn. The RW swine hate women, and want them kept solely for breeding

[BigmanPigman]

13. How many Catholics are on the SCOTUS?

It seems like a very high amount and not a true representation of the population. 1 in 4 women have had an abortion.

The SCOTUS is corrupted. "Not partisan" my ass. A few months ago that was the line the SCOTUS was trying to push in the press when we all know they are extremely partisan. What BS! What ever happened to separation of church and state?

[elleng]

15. Lots, and 2 Jewish members.

As to Coney-B:

'Barrett is a practicing Catholic.[216] Since birth, she has been a member of the Christian parachurch community People of Praise,[217] an ecumenical covenant community founded in South Bend. Associated with the Catholic charismatic renewal movement but not formally affiliated with the Catholic Church,[218][219][220] about 90% of its approximately 1,700 members are Catholic.[218][220] In People of Praise, Barrett has served as a laypastoral women's leader known as a "handmaiden".[221][222'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Coney_Barrett

I don't understand this AT ALL, but maybe because I'm agnostic and have never 'practiced' any religion tho 'practice' my Jewish culture.

[BigmanPigman]

17. Is the Federalist Society mainly Catholic?

That is one way there may be an abundance of them on the SCOTUS.

I was brought to Catholic Church and CCD and was confirmed. When I was 10 my parents (my dad was never religious and neither was my mom but she had been a Catholic) gave me a choice of continuing or not. I chose NOT! Priests used to come to our house asking for $$$. Whatever you gave, or didn't give, was printed in a little booklet and passed out at church. It was such BS that even an ignorant 10 year old could see through the sham. Not much of a decision for me, I knew they were greedy hypocrites before I could even spell the word.

On a lighter note, I take great joy in the hor'duerves I serve to my family when we have an Easter Dinner. I bought real communion wafers since they were the only thing I liked about church. I serve them in place of chips to dip into lox spread. My whole family enjoys laughing with me at our former religion and the snacks are tasty too.

As I got older I met many ex-Catholics. I never met any practicing Catholics that I know of. I have an old friend from childhood who is a fanatic and single issue voter. I have little respect for her and only send Xmas and birthday cards.

[elleng]

18. Dunno, haven't studied demographics of Federalist society.

[BigmanPigman]

19. Leonard Leo, head of the Federaist Society since 1989

is a heavy duty Catholic. He is the key person who made the SCOTUS as they are today.

"Enter the Federalist Society, a group of leading legal minds on the right who set about drafting a list of judges that they could inform friendly politicians they wanted to see promoted. The evangelicals could also lobby their captive politicians."

"Conservative Catholics fitted the bill. To say the tactic worked is understating it. Every one of Trump’s appointments to the Supreme Court were recommended by the Federalist Society."

"Indeed, once again, in the Coney Barrett case, the Federalist Society gave its seal of approval to Coney Barrett."

"Federalist Society leader Leonard Leo even took a leave of absence to personally oversee the process. Coney Barrett was the result, as were previous Trump justices, Brett Kavanagh and Neil Gorsuch. "

"The Federalist Society had completed a very clever strategy that amounted to a coup, and they got exactly what they were looking for. Their choices could change America forever."

"The court was once the bastion of white WASPs and all male. It is extraordinary to note that all current justices are either Catholics or Jews with the exception of Gorsuch, raised a Catholic but who later converted to Protestantism."

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/catholic-coup-supreme-court

[elleng]

20. 'a very clever strategy' along with repug party.

We've been stuck withOUT 'clever strategy' forever.

[bdamomma]

76. Hey Bigman

I remember Senator Whitehouse mentioning Leonard Leo's name. The Senator went through the "dark money" organizational thing. These bastards ruined the SC.

[BigmanPigman]

81. The GQP is very methodical and plan for the long run.

[jaxexpat]

24. I had a friend who's Catholic. She and I had a debate about a phrase she said was in the bible.

"Okay", she said, and went to get her bible to prove her posit. Back she comes pointing to a passage in her book. I looked at the cover and was surprised that it was a book entitled "traditional catholic ritual and teaching" or something like that. She actually had no concept of the canonized bible at all except as something only priests could understand, amazed and unbelieving that I'd actually read it. She maintained that her pet phrase must be in there but that I'd missed it. (The pet phrase had some expansion on Mary's thoughts about her pregnancy. On reflection it seems that catholicism may be terminally obsessed with pre-natal affairs.)

[shrike3]

54. Depends on the Catholic. Martin Sheen is pro choice and vocal about it.

Biden is pro-choice. As am I.

[BigmanPigman]

55. Yup, they are the minority.

[shrike3]

58. Not exactly.

Interesting stuff from Pew.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/20/8-key-findings-about-catholics-and-abortion/

[BigmanPigman]

59. Thanks, I love graphs and charts.

It seems like the Catholics on the SCOTUS are not with the majority of Catholics overall. What is their agenda?

[shrike3]

61. They're with a pocket of conservatives, Catholic and otherwise.

Who want a "Christian" nation. I seem to remember Pompeo talking about it. He's part of that pocket of conservatives.

And here we have a nation where "nones" are the fastest growing group.

I think it should be pointed out that "Nones" are unaffiliated. Atheists and agnostics are a smaller group.

I'm religious, several friends are agnostic, that's never been an issue between us. Decent people just don't have issues with that kind of thing.

Mindbogglingly, isn't it, what's going on?

[BigmanPigman]

64. Bindboggling hypocrisy.

[shrike3]

65. I learned about evolution in Catholic school.

From nuns. This is why I find today's environment so -- mindboggling, as you say.

[BradAllison]

71. I'll take nine Sonia Sotomayors thank you.

This is not about religion, it's who they stand for politically.

[bdamomma]

77. RBG

bless her must be rolling in her grave.

[orleans]

14. just because she has enuf kids to make up a water polo team

doesn't mean we all want to do that

[elleng]

16. 7 kids, 2 adopted from Haiti.

[eShirl]

21. What's going to eliminate the 'burden' of pregnancy? Go back and try again, dear.

[SunSeeker]

22. She is an evil, rich loon. She does not give a shit about the average woman's burdens. nt

[blueinredohio]

25. Some children never get adopted

then have to live their whole life in the foster system, which is overflowing now. I can't imagine if Roe is over turned how many more will be in it.

[Joinfortmill]

26. That's cold and heartless. Giving away a child is NOT

analogous to aborting a fetus.

[NurseJackie]

28. Hey Susan Sarandon... HAPPY NOW? Is this the "REVOLUTION" you wanted?

#FuckYouSusanSarandon



Never forget. Never forgive.

[Raven123]

29. Wow. Seven kids. Wonder how she managed that at home. Couldn't possibly work outside the home

[bucolic_frolic]

30. Thank you Barely Vetted #2, now shut your Fundie piehole

before you condemn countless women to barefoot kitchen duty

[gab13by13]

31. Maybe Coney should also promote contraceptives,

and get her Catholic church to stop preaching against them. If Roe is overturned there will be less access to contraceptives and more babies. I looked this up many years ago so I don't know if it still holds true, the fact that many countries with the strictest abortion laws also have the highest % of abortion.

[Vinca]

32. I suggest Amy Coney Barrett relinquish one of her children and see how it goes.

Having given up a child for adoption when I was a teenager (something I rarely talk about and have never mentioned here before), it's not the quick and easy solution she depicts it to be. The years - decades - of sorrow, regret, wondering "what ifs" and never knowing the end of the story are not easy to live with. The starry-eyed faux Christians need to get over the notion it's a perfect solution. It's not. Women make difficult decisions - whether to abort, bear the child or have the child adopted. It's not easy, but it's their decision. Politicians should not be involved. Judges should not be involved. I can't believe we're at the starting point again and so many women and girls will suffer.

[csziggy]

37. I think they WANT women to feel that guilt - whether or not they give up the child

I am so sorry for what you had to go through and your continuing feelings.

These politicians want women to be inflicted with guilt for their 'sin' - as if men had nothing to do with it. As you say, women make difficult decisions since men can just walk away. They want women to suffer - isn't that what the Catholic Church teaches? That women are the source of original sin, so they MUST suffer.

[slightlv]

47. I agree wholeheartedly

I was going to say it's that old concept of "original sin" rearing it's head again. We're suppose to pay for Eve's "original sin" of taking that bite of the apple from the tree of knowledge, as well as being able to tempt men with Lilith's spells of decadence and evil. There's no way out for women in Xtianity as far as Fundamentalism is concerned. You're damned to hell, period. You're less than the lowest male out there, just by virtue of being female.

If that sounds familiar, it ought to... cause it's kin straight from another religion "of the Book"... Islam. However, even Islam and Judaism treat women better than Xtianity. But then, I'm talking about those religions in their purest form, not the extremist versions practiced by and for the males of their societies... such as here in the U.S. by our own American Taliban.

[StevieM]

72. My heart is with you, Vinca.

An internet friend of mine who is a first mother has often said "they say time heels all wounds. It does not heal this one."

I hope you were able to reunite with your child at some point. I know that closed records make that difficult for many women who are searching.

[Lonestarblue]

33. It isn't about adoption--it's about a woman's right to make her own medical decisions.

The Handmaiden is way off base here. And if she thinks giving up kids after birth is the answer, she needs to visit group homes for kids awaiting an adoption that never comes because most of them are not perfect adorable white babies with no physical, mental, or emotional problems. Texas has one of the worst foster care systems in the country, with reports of children being regularly raped or beaten by their caretakers.

Either women have autonomy over their bodies for all medical procedures or they have no autonomy for any and are subject to whatever the state wants to do to them. And we know from laws passed by Republicans that they want to punish them and throw them in jail, even for miscarriages.

[JenniferJuniper]

34. Amy Coney Barrett is Serena Joy.

[bdamomma]

78. for sure

and there are many women out there like June. We will fight this.

[DallasNE]

36. Her Questions Are Not Legal Based

They are about process and thus how to comport to her religious views while being condescending.

[Historic NY]

38. Maybe drop them all off at her office.

[bluestarone]

40. ABORTION and religion were the ONLY reasons this IDIOT was voted to the SC!

Complete CHRISTIAN BRAIN! She can see NOTHING ELSE.

[Old Crank]

41. She wants women to be brood mares

If they overturn Roe I guess that means that all pregnancies in Mississippi will now be wards of the state.
The state could be sued to provide the full costs of carrying any and all children to a full term pregnancy.
Then the state takes over the responsibility for any children the women didn't wish to carry.

[area51]

42. Mentioned in another thread

but what these fundies aren't considering, is without universal/free healthcare in this country, women don't have $$$$$ burning a hole in their purses that they can spend on prenatal dr visits, or money to give birth in a hospital.

[TexasBushwhacker]

63. No paid time off for recovery after giving birth either n/t

[hamsterjill]

45. Please forgive me...

But does this bitch not understand that childbirth HURTS like hell and some people choose not to go through with it simply because of that fact?

And those people don't owe an explanation to anybody. I mean, I hear all of these compelling "reasons" why someone might choose to have an abortion. There's no need for there to be a justifiable reason. It's a personal choice. End of story.

[zanana1]

46. Does anyone know when we can expect the SC decision?

[slightlv]

48. Aren't all decisions

heard during the fall/winter decided and then released to the public record after the 2nd Monday in May the following year? I may have that date wrong. If so, I apologize...

[Polybius]

51. Yes, the end of June

Gonna be a while.

[zanana1]

66. Thanks to both of you.

[bdamomma]

79. Yes thanks

I didn't know that. Gives us time to organize.

[RobinA]

49. Isn't This A Legal Case?

Burdens of parenting, desirability of adoption, etc. etc., completely irrelevant.

[Dan]

50. Term limits and expansion of the Court.

[jmowreader]

52. One thing she might want to consider

Adoption isn’t a given.

If you give birth to a child that isn’t the gender the adoptive parents want, isn’t white, has an expensive-to-treat condition, isn’t cute enough, has a rapist for a father, or one of a thousand other reasons why a rich couple might not want to raise it… “honey, you keep it.”

[keithbvadu2]

56. The adoptive parents-to-be should seek and be granted legal custody of the fetus up to and after the

The adoptive parents-to-be should seek and be granted legal custody of the fetus up to and after the birth.

No backing out.

No super duper Christian parents willing to step up to preserve that supposed life to prevent abortion?

So much for the myth of pro-life.

[StevieM]

73. I know you mean well, but this idea would be a catastrophe.

It would formalize the mentality of treating the expectant mother as the birth mother before the child is born, along with the notion that the prospective adoptive parents are already the mother and father.

Many women change their minds after giving birth and can't bring themselves to part with their children. We should not advocate for any law that would make it any easier than it already is for the adoption industry to facilitate coerced adoptions.

[keithbvadu2]

84. I definitely see your point.

I definitely see your point.

I would like to see them at least financially obligated legally to help support the child.

Such as an obligation to include the child on their healthcare plan.
(Laws might have to be changed... The supposed pro-lifers would want to protect the fetus. Right?)

None of this: 'We lied to keep you from an abortion when we said we would help. Happy motherhood.'

[TexasBushwhacker]

62. And that is a huge issue for someone carrying a fetus

with a deformity or genetic condition. Not only is their child likely to suffer, there's a very good chance they will be institutionalized or passed from one foster home to another.

[Autumn]

53. She better quit her fucking job and adopt every unwanted baby.

She can give them a safe haven instead of putting them in a soulless, loveless system.

Fuck this supreme court.

[Retrograde]

60. OK, Goody Barrett - what are women supposed to do

in the 7 or so months from when they find they're pregnant until they can "deposit" their children at the local fire station? Do they keep going to school and just live with any social stigmas that come up? Continue working even if their jobs require them to be on their feet much of the time or involve physical labor? Maybe you were able to take it easy and kick back during your pregnancies, but not everyone is that lucky. And what happens if there are complications - more likely when the woman doesn't have access to good medical care - who looks after the welfare of the mother, or is she expendable?

In my ideal world, everyone would have access to decent education about sex and reliable contraceptives, and abortion would be a rare thing. But we don't live in ideal worlds, and just because Goody Barrett was OK during her pregnancies doesn't mean every woman is.

[Marthe48]

69. radio ad for Toys for Tots 308 children displaced from homes Wood Cty. WV

The ad was asking for new unwrapped presents so that these less fortunate children could have a nice Christmas. The ad ended with contacgt information for the Wood County WV Dept of Health and Human Services in case anyone wants to foster or adopt these 308 children.


The total population of Wood Cty. WV is under 90,000 people. Population of the state of WV is under 2 million. There are about 7200 children in foster care. Nationwide, there are almost 500,000 children in foster care, and over 100,000 of those kids canbe adopted right now. But they won't be.

Does barrett even know that foster care in the U.S. is already burdened with children removed from homes, or orphaned or for other reasons don't have a family? Does she have a clue that her stupid non-solution will wreak havoc on social programs and the young people who have waited for a home long enough? What a complete idiot she is.

[TexasBushwhacker]

82. And does she understand that disabled children that are abandoned

to the "system" are generally not adopted? They're passed from one foster home to another, often neglected or they're institutionalized.

Tell her to look up Harlequin Ichthyosis, Mermaid Syndrome, Microcephaly, Various trisomies. I dare her. Not all aborted fetuses are perfect and white.

[Marthe48]

83. I had a friend who was aide for a child

Paralyzed from birth, lived her days in a wheel chair equipped with life-sustaining accessories, like oxygen, other things. My friend had to feed her, change her, adjust her in the chair, move her from one spot toanother. I don't know if the child had mental limits. The parents had her enrolled in a local school and workshop that was and is for challenged children. I don't know how my friend did the job, but she did it cheerfully and with great love.

[tonekat]

70. What a low caliber justice!

She doesn't think the whole pregnancy is a considerable burden? Just serve as an incubator then, and only then can you put it up for adoption. What a horrible world Republicans have in their heads. SCOTUS is mostly a partisan rubber stamp now.

[bdamomma]

75. the

Handmaiden speaks what a sick thing she is. No talk about rape or incest from the Supreme Court for the girls who have to endure that kind of trauma. What they have to carry a rapist child to full term???

[Hekate]

85. Aunt Amy likened abortion to terminating parental rights. No you idjit, one is a medical procedure...

… and the other is not.

She’s Aunt Amy the former Handmaiden, the smiling, pretty face of the patriarchy.