Tesla recall: "Full Self-Driving" software runs stop signs

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By TOM KRISHER

DETROIT (AP) — Tesla is recalling nearly 54,000 cars and SUVs because their “Full Self-Driving” software lets them roll through stop signs without coming to a complete halt.

Documents posted Tuesday by U.S. safety regulators say that Tesla will disable the feature with an over-the-internet software update. The “rolling stop” feature allows vehicles to go through intersections with all-way stop signs at up to 5.6 miles per hour.

The docments say Tesla agreed to the recall after two meetings with officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Tesla knows of no crashes or injuries caused by feature.

The recall covers Model S sedans and X SUVs from 2016 through 2022, as well as 2017 to 2022 Model 3 sedans and 2020 through 2022 Model Y SUVs.



FILE - A 2021 Model 3 sedan sits in a near-empty lot at a Tesla dealership in Littleton, Colo. June 27, 2021. Tesla is recalling nearly 54,000 vehicles because their “Full Self-Driving” software lets them roll through stop signs without coming to a complete halt. Documents posted Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2022, by U.S. safety regulators say that Tesla will disable the feature with an over-the-internet software update. (AP Photo/David Zalubowski, File)


Read more: https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-software-e23d252ac5164cb0e7af776625b15180

[hlthe2b]

1. If you are hit by a self-driving car is the owner or Tesla responsible?

Do insurance companies cover just as any other vehicle?

[bucolic_frolic]

3. Maybe insurers go after Tesla?

After dinging your rates for the accident? Maybe it varies state by state? Would they even tell us?

[SheltieLover]

5. Driver is always responsible

They are required to be in control of the vehicle, regardless of software.

[uncle ray]

6. the rolling stop feature is selected by the user.

FSD lets you select from several driving styles, including drive like Elon Musk(asshole mode). since this is a deliberate choice, the owner should bear the bulk of the responsibility.

[kirby]

25. There should not be a feature that is illegal

It is illegal is all 50 states to not fully stop at a stop sign (in a car/truck). Providing a self driving mode that allows breaking the law seems like it would also put responsibility on the manufacturer.

[uncle ray]

27. manufacturers also build cars that go 200 mph.

i, and many many others would never consider buying a self driving car if it always came to a complete stop, never sped and waited at four way stops for eternity waiting for other drivers to move. i expect that in self driving mode, if there are other cars present at a stop sign, the car will make the appropriate choice to stop completely, and not roll through when someone else has the right of way. a properly developed self driving car, driving on roads with other self driving cars, should not need to come to a complete stop all the time, that is a relic of human controlled cars. we need to look in each direction twice, a self driving car is looking in all directions at all times evaluating risks. the tech, however, is not there yet.

that said, obligatory fuck Elon Musk.

[LiberatedUSA]

17. Didn't a driver just get up for manslaughter or something...

…of that nature for their car’s failed self driving feature? I could swear there was a thread of that nature not long ago.

[Kablooie]

29. You are responsible. Tesla makes that very clear when you agree to use the software.

I use it myself as I mentioned in a post down below.

[hlthe2b]

31. Your insurance company had no problem insuring you on a car equipped with this software?

[Kablooie]

32. I have Tesla insurance.

I’ve always had AAA insurance before but it was much more expensive for a Tesla so I switched.
Tesla apparently has more faith in their own cars because it was less than half the AAA cost and cheaper than any other companies.

I haven't heard of anyone with the software having insurance issues though.

[Emile]

2. and the self-driving feature is a ten thousand dollar option.

[3Hotdogs]

4. Well I guess I ain't gotta worry about that.

[70sEraVet]

7. Last week I was issued a warning because a cop saw me roll through a stop sign

without coming to a complete stop. My wife gave me quite a bit of grief over it, complaining that I ALWAYS roll through stop signs.
This morning I proudly told her that Tesla makes a car especially for me!

[Emile]

11. You are lucky he gave you a warning. It's a a reckless driving citation, big

fine with a lot of points. I got one in Michigan once.

[Marthe48]

14. Heard it was called a boulevard stop

It isn't legal in Ohio, supposedly, full stop. Not enforced, or this county wouldn't need money from the roads and highways dept.

[marie999]

8. Isn't not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign illegal?

[dalton99a]

9. Evidently the sweatshop owner doesn't have money to test the shitty software

Besides, real libertarians don't stop for cars or pedestrians

[LudwigPastorius]

19. Exactly.

Do you think Howard Roark stopped at stop signs?

[wyn borkins]

10. Purported 'Self-Driving' Functionality

(IMHO) Should be removed from our reality

Or some folk will leave for an underground reality

[thesquanderer]

12. It took TWO meetings to get Tesla to stop their cars from doing something illegal?

Not to mention that, if a person of color were pulled over for rolling through a stop sign, s/he could get killed. Some cops don't like seeing PoC driving fancy cars in the first place. At least it was a "feature" you had to turn on. Should have come with an extra warning, "for white drivers only."

[Marthe48]

13. Tesla self-drive: Human or machine?

Because the humans around here don't know what the hell STOP means. Or red lights. :/

[turbinetree]

15. Fly Me to the Moon...

[bhikkhu]

16. It's not just "self-driving", and not just Tesla that's the problem

At least to my way of thinking. I've been a mechanic for 35 years so have driven thousands of every kind of vehicle. My one pet peeve, which only gets more serious and ingrained, is vehicles that do things you didn't tell them to do, or that won't do things you do tell them to do.

Examples are some of the old Chryslers when they first came out with electric door locks, There was a feature where they would automatically lock all the doors, which led to countless keys locked in vehicles. That's the main reason now that there is a fixed rule in every shop I've worked in - if the windows are up, the keys aren't in the vehicle. The first thing I do every time I pull a vehicle in the shop is roll down the driver's window.

Another example is headlights that don't go out when you turn off the car, and sometimes even when you deliberately turn the headlight switch to off. Every day I work on cars where I wish I could just turn the headlights off, and I waste time watching to see if the timer works, or if it's going to run the battery dead.

More serious nowadays are vehicles that automatically apply the electric e-brake, for a variety of reasons. They cause unexpected problems, and I never know for sure what the programming is looking at to avoid problems. Most allow you to put them in maintenance mode with a scanner, but even that - we have a Subaru in the shop now that's undriveable because the brakes won't come out of maintenance mode, for unknown reasons.

And then proximity sensors that apply the regular brakes automatically, another giant pain in the ass. Maneuvering vehicles in the shop and lot is always close quarters, now we have to deal with the brakes applying themselves unexpectedly.

I think there should be a big switch or one easy to access option that turns all that off, and lets you operate a vehicle simply by telling it what to do, rather than the other way around. A competent driver should have that option.

[SheltieLover]

21. Had a Caravan Minivan do this with door locks in 2018

Passenger could not get out of vehicle. It was 154 F in the vehicle when I came out of the doctor!

Could easily have been fatal.

Another reason I will never own a car that does not have components physically connected to controls (ie, no drive by wire for me!).

[Kablooie]

30. Teslas have a "maintenance" mode.

It's enabled by the Tesla techs and adjusts all the options to make the car easier to work on.

[LudwigPastorius]

18. Will Elon offer a "Robber Baron" mode?

...that swerves to hit orphans, widows, immigrants, and other drains on society?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

20. But Elon Musk is a genius

Just ask him he'll tell you.

[beaglelover]

22. Glad I didn't pay the $10K to add this feature to my Model 3. I like driving and would never trust

a computer to drive my car 100% of the time. Some people who buy this feature imagine their car will become a self driving taxi and make them money down the road. Who the hell would want strangers sitting in their cars all the time. Yuck!

[MurrayDelph]

23. I guess they forgot to take it

out of "riding a bicycle" mode


.

[Zorro]

24. Not sure if "recall" is the appropriate term

Looks like this "recall" will be a software update pushed out over-the-air to disable that functionality.

It's similar to what Tesla did several years ago to limit Autopilot capability by requiring the driver to jiggle the steering wheel every 30 seconds or so to verify they're paying attention to the road.

[LiberalLovinLug]

26. Its nice to have that rolling stop feature....I still have it, and use it!

No, I don't have an electric car.

That is one thing that is not great about a self driving car. There's no nuance. If there are no other cars at a 4 way stop for instance, I find nothing wrong with slowing right down, but not stopping completely. Just long enough to know there is no danger in continuing. It saves on gas, on the engine, on the brakes, and even saves time.

And there are probably a lot of these kinds of human decisions we make with our driving every day. Maybe even moving to allow someone in, even if its not logical to do from a computers point of view, and countless situations where the computer shows it doesn't have human empathy.

[Kablooie]

28. I use Tesla's "Full Self Driving" software.

I've had it for several months now. To get it, I allowed the car to monitor my driving behavior for 2 weeks to get access to the FSD software. I had to get a safety score of 100 which was displayed in the Tesla app.

"Recall" is a little misleading. Tesla updates the FSD software every 2 weeks over the internet and each time the car's behavior is slightly modified and improved. This will just be another update and removes the "California stop" feature which slows the car down to crawl as it passes a stop line instead of stopping completely if there are no other cars around. It's the way I normally drive, (I live in California). This is referred to as a "recall" because regulators wanted the change instead of Tesla independently deciding to make the change.

The software is pretty amazing. It actually does drive the car and makes driving decisions as it goes. It monitors where I'm looking and I have to put a little tension on the steering wheel every few seconds so the car knows I am paying attention. If you stop paying attention it turns off the FSD software with a violation alert. If you get 3 violations you lose access to the software.

I have to take over occasionally, mostly because it can be too cautious about making turns and cars behind me get impatient. Very occasionally I take over because a car swerves over close to me and I become uncomfortable with how close the Tesla lets the car get before swerving or braking itself. As soon as you turn the steering wheel you are in charge and the FSD turns off.

It's not perfect but every two weeks it get better and can handle complex situations with more confidence. Just recently it learned to move aside appropriately if you are driving on a very narrow street with an approaching car.