Haberman book: Flushed papers found clogging Trump WH toilet

[riversedge]

Source: axios



13 mins ago - Politics & Policy Mike Allen

While President Trump was in office, staff in the White House residence periodically discovered wads of printed paper clogging a toilet — and believed the president had flushed pieces of paper, Maggie Haberman scoops in her forthcoming book, "Confidence Man."

Why it matters: The revelation by Haberman, whose coverage as a New York Times White House correspondent was followed obsessively by Trump, adds a vivid new dimension to his lapses in preserving government documents. Axios was provided an exclusive first look at some of her reporting.

Haberman reports Trump has told people that since leaving office, he has remained in contact with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un — whose "love letters," as Trump once called them, were among documents the National Archives retrieved from Mar-a-Lago.

Zoom out: The news of White House toilet-flushing comes as the National Archives has reportedly asked the Biden Justice Department to examine Trump's handling of White House records, amid the congressional investigation into the Jan. 6 assault on the Capitol.
..........................
Archives officials found possible classified material in the returned boxes, The New York Times learned.



Read more: https://www.axios.com/maggie-haberman-book-trump-papers-2d59d593-8b89-4edd-8623-8ef709af524f.html

---

We will never know what documents went down the WH toilets--except Trump poop

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=07cBUXzCcW1Bfxan9EGpTg

[gab13by13]

1. 2 things here,

we need to stop calling correspondence with enemy foreign leaders, love letters. They are important letters that impact our nation's national security and the incoming president deserves to see these documents.

Secondly, if I understand the situation, the National Archives asked DOJ to take over the investigation and DOJ told the National Archives to investigate the matter itself. That's the way I read what is being reported. maybe Garland again wants to defend the office of the president the way he is defending it against E.Jeanne Carroll, the woman who is accusing Trump of rape and slander.

[hamsterjill]

2. So, can't the DOJ subpoena

The “staff in the White House residence”?

[Scrivener7]

5. "Patience grasshopper. It's not a Law and Order episode!"

[hamsterjill]

9. And I'm no grasshopper either!!! LOL

I know. I know. The DOJ is working behind the scenes and the arrests are imminent. I’m just a horrible, UnAmerican, anti-Democrat jackass for expecting that get done now. Trump won’t have any influence over the midterms!!! Hell, McConnell has even crossed him. Hell, Trump will probably just turn himself in and admit everything and throw himself at the mercy of the court, right???

I know you know what I’m doing here. Peace.

[Scrivener7]

10. And peace back to you.

[BumRushDaShow]

37. In order to move forward to "bring charges"

they have to empanel a federal grand jury (because DOJ is not a police department with cops who were "in the room" to catch the perps in the act and thus could write up a report of those criminal acts as "witnesses" to the alleged crime(s) being committed).

Then they present what evidence they have to that jury (e.g., witness statements, photographs and/or video/audio recordings obtained, correspondence exchanged between individuals like emails, texts, printed memos/letters, etc), and then the jury will need to agree about what can be "charged", resulting indictments. Once the indictments go out, then stuff happens (arraignment) that leads to pleas, which would then result in either a trial (if the defendant pleads "not guilty" ) or other types of agreements/judgements without a need for a trial. Sometimes the grand jury doesn't find enough to bring about any charges and they decline to indict.

I think in the cases with the Jan. 6 insurrectionists, they could probably use the same D.C. grand jury but in this case, it would need a brand new group.

Here is what the process is (just found it and it is informative how they wrote it up) - starting here - https://www.justice.gov/usao/justice-101/investigation and then leading to the meat here - https://www.justice.gov/usao/justice-101/charging

[gab13by13]

6. I repeat,

it sounds to me like DOJ is telling the National Archives, You investigate the matter. The Nation Archives does have a unit that does investigations and I believe it has subpoena power.

[hamsterjill]

11. Didn't the National Archives just yesterday

Reach out to the DOJ to investigate as the appropriate course? So I don’t think it’s the National Archives can subpoena. Am I wrong???

[gab13by13]

16. I saw it on Rachel

the National Archives has its own investigative unit, I imagine it can subpoena. Read what the Times is reporting. The National Archives reached out to DOJ and DOJ told them to have its IG investigate the matter. I am just trying to use reading comprehension here, and it sounds to me like DOJ told the Archives to do the investigation.

[Scrivener7]

26. The Washington Post doesn't mention Garland passing it, but they are stressing that the case would

be unlikely to result in charges.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/09/trump-archives-justice-department/

So the investigation's benefits might mostly be to recover the documents. AND gifts. It sounds like lots of gifts never made it to the Archive either.

[gab13by13]

28. I don't understand this,

there are 4 or 5 statutes that have significant jail time. It isn't just about not preserving documents, it's about hiding documents to obstruct an investigation. I just do not get it. Plus the fact that it now appears that Trump stole classified documents, that has got to be a crime? Those documents from North Korea are a matter of national security that president Biden needed to have access to.

[Scrivener7]

29. Yes. But like with so many other things, no other President was ever so blatant in

violating those laws, so there aren't real consequences. At least that's what I got from the article. But, also from the article, I get the impression that they are working to create consequences for the future. That doesn't help us now, but for so many of these mores he has trampled, nothing is being done to prevent the next - smarter - guy from doing it worse. At least this may be tightened up.

[Lonestarblue]

39. How is this law not applicable?

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

(a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

[Farmer-Rick]

42. Seems to me the Law is there

But the will to enforce the law is lacking.

Just read the interpretations of what "levying war" against the United States means. It's a perfect description of what Trump did on 6 Jan....and that is in the Constitution.

The majority of the 600 filthy rich oligarchs in the US don't want to punish the monsters they have so carefully created. Until they release their deadly grasp on our government, no one will be held to account. Why did no one go to jail when some of the same filthy rich families tried to get rid of Roosevelt in a failed coup.

We in the US don't ever punish the oligarchs, no matter what stupid crap they do. Trump's own father, during WWII, was a Nazi and nothing ever happened to him.

[BumRushDaShow]

41. As a retired fed

none of the "civilian regulatory agencies" can "charge" or act on their own like the "criminal" / "law enforcement" agencies. All of the agencies have some kind of "office of general counsel" or whatever they may name them where they include a cadre of lawyers who are there in an advisory capacity, to review any "evidence" presented by the investigative staff in those agencies that will then get handed over to DOJ to take care of, and/or to assist their employees with representation in court (when needed).

Here is a primer from DOJ itself - https://www.justice.gov/usao/justice-101/investigation -

Investigation

In the Federal Government, there are agencies that employ criminal investigators to collect and provide information to the United States Attorneys in the respective district.

FingerprintYou may already know some of the agencies, such as:

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)

Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)

United States Secret Service (USSS)

Homeland Security Investigations (DHS/HSI)

The investigators at these agencies investigate the crime and obtain evidence, and help prosecutors understand the details of the case. The prosecutor may work with just one agency but, many times, several investigating agencies are involved.

Per the above, the information that is "collected" for the U.S. Attorneys by the above-named agencies (depending on subject matter) would often come from the regulatory agencies.

I remember for years working with DOJ designees for stuff I was assigned where (at least back in the day but I expect even today) they had their own template for writing up dockets, and we would format our USC violations and descriptions, etc. to fit into their template.

[Rhiannon12866]

46. Here:

Records Retrieved From Trump By National Archives May Include Classified Material: Reports - Velshi
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017711499

As the National Archives turns to the Department of Justice to investigation Donald Trump's mishandling of presidential records, Ilona Cohen, former associate White House counsel during the Obama administration, talks about the importance of the Presidential Records Act and the extent to which the preservation of documents is emphasized to White House staff. Aired on 02/09/2022.

[Scrivener7]

12. Maybe that would be preferable?

[gab13by13]

17. Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

I saw this on Rachel, she reported that the National Archives has a very robust investigative unit. What do you understand the way the Times reported the story? It sounds to me like DOJ declined the case and told the Archives to investigate. Maybe Garland wants to defend the office of the president again, 3rd time's the charm.

[Scrivener7]

22. But even if that is the case, the DOJ still has to bring the case, right?

I didn't see the Times story.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

27. I think DOJ told the Inspector General to review

And then the Inspector General can refer to DOJ-I think LOL

[gab13by13]

30. Yes, I looked it up,

The Archives IG will investigate and then refer to DOJ for prosecution.
https://www.archives.gov/oig/investigations.html

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

3. No wonder Trump needed to flush his toilet 30 times.

[FM123]

34. Exactly!

Half of the crazy things he says really does have to do with his crazy self....

[Scrivener7]

4. Well, THIS sent a chill down my spine:

Trump has told people that since leaving office, he has remained in contact with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un

[Walleye]

7. Yep. That's what got my attention. How is this not a major national security breach?

Why has Kim been shooting off all those missiles? I’m pretty sure he’s been in touch with Putin as well

[gab13by13]

8. If he's remained in contact with Kim,

I'm sure he's remained in contact with Putin. What scares me is a question I have that no one wants to answer. Did DOJ tell the National Archives to do the investigation itself? DOJ didn't hesitate to investigate Hillary.

[Scrivener7]

13. Oh, God. You're right about Putin.

Did the DOJ do that? I haven't followed it closely enough to see that. It would not be a surprise though.

[hkp11]

18. If Drumpf is still in touch with Putin...

Then Putin invading Ukraine would be beneficial by putting in pro-Russian Ukraine President. That Ukraine president can then bring up Hunter Biden's involvement in Burisma for 2024 US presidential election to support Drumpf's 2024 re-election campaign. That way Biden will be set in a bad light during the 2024 election.

[gab13by13]

31. Not going to happen,

Putin may invade but Ukraine is going to fight back.

[hkp11]

45. I hope so...

there will be casualties on Ukraine side if Russia decides to invade Ukraine. I hope pressure from Biden/NATO on Russia will have them thinking twice about invading Ukraine.

[PatSeg]

32. If Trump is in touch with foreign dictators

then U.S. intelligence should be aware of that.

[Mr. Sparkle]

14. I can imagine Trump in court, " i ran out of toilet paper, what else was i supposed to use"

"These Russian documents where close by .... "

[pansypoo53219]

15. big fucking no-no. i happen to have a set of presidential papers up to the late 1800's. had a newer

more presidents, but i traded it. darn i lost teddy.

[gab13by13]

19. I have LBJ papers talking about JFK,

I better use this;

[pansypoo53219]

23. i also found a govt memorial book for senator taft when he died. i read JFK's speech + mccarthy's.

then i found bob lafollette's memorial book. huge book collector. also found some teddy roosevelt books.

[Samrob]

20. Looks like we may need a thorough cleansing of the DOJ and some significant codes changed.

All of our Intel was compromised by the Trump administration and its scary to think about. What does Kim and Putin know that they are using against us via allies and adversaries alike? Think about it!

[gab13by13]

21. So did Trump flush White House documents

or was it pages of Haberman's new book?

[KS Toronado]

24. Repugs sure liked the phrase "but her E-mails"

Now we have "But his Toilet"

[PatSeg]

33. Ha, ha, ha!!!

Another day that the memes just write themselves!

[multigraincracker]

25. Proof of his butt server

wiped clean to hide evidence.

[YoshidaYui]

35. Throw the book at his

Ugly ass.

[twodogsbarking]

36. It may take me some time to flush this disgusting story from my mind.

[electric_blue68]

50. I know, right?! BLEEEECH! Sigh.

[MissMillie]

38. INTENT!!!

This isn't forgetfulness.. the papers were not found in some trash barrel, or packed away in some forgotten box.

I get the feeling that TDDFG would have burned the stuff if he hadn't been afraid of setting off the smoke alarms.

This is active, willful destruction of Presidential record.

[gab13by13]

40. Actually, he did burn some of them,

he had a special bag where documents were to be burned.

[Snoopy 7]

43. library?

Will a toilet be the trump presidential library?

[DallasNE]

44. Those Aren't Lapses

The rules are explicit, and they were simply disregarded purposefully. That makes it criminal behavior. And just following orders is no defense. Either you prosecute these people to establish a deterrent, or it will keep happening over and over again.

[llashram]

47. YUCK!!!

can't unsee that especially when the guy's internal rear end mechanisms were severely damaged by his drug use...

[LetMyPeopleVote]

48. Why did Haberman wait to report this?

Link to tweet

[calimary]

49. Makes me wonder how many times plumbers were called to trump tower.

And to Mar-a-Lago. And wherever-the-hell else he’s been in residence.

I suspect we’re learning about a long-practiced small-time-mentality strategy of “get rid of the evidence”.

[Hekate]

51. Deliberately, knowingly, maliciously, contemptuously. A mobster flushing evidence.

Damn that man to hell.

[Tactical Peek]

52. Now we really have to wonder what this could be a damp piece of.

?w=840

[LuckyLib]

53. Photo still makes me smile. But hey! You're right!

It could be a piece of some classified document.