Kinzinger: "We have to recognize" possibility of a civil war

[BlueWavePsych]

Source: Axios

Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) said Thursday that "we have to recognize" the possibility of a civil war, adding, "I don't think it's too far of a bridge to think that's a possibility."

Kinzinger's comments come after the Republican National Committee censured Kinzinger and Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) for serving on the House Jan. 6 select committee.

"It's going to be armed groups against armed groups, targeted assassination and violence. That's what a 21st and 20th century Civil War is."

"A once great party, a party that stood for something, stood for principles, whether you agree with those principles or not, is now a party that stands for loyalty to one man, that was clear in the RNC censure, and that's what makes me sad more than anything," he said.


Read more: https://www.axios.com/adam-kinzinger-censures-republicans-a5e698ce-7372-44ed-8175-6ed1368c4a3b.html

---

Interestingly, stumbled upon a recent Canadian discussion on this very topic.



https://www.tvo.org/video/is-the-us-on-the-verge-of-civil-war

Transcript: https://www.tvo.org/transcript/2680931/is-the-us-on-the-verge-of-civil-war

[kimbutgar]

1. There was a book called ectopedia about how the US splintered into several countries

The western and eastern states were states that believed in science. And the middle was a wasteland of idiots in a Wild West shooting each other.

[whopis01]

44. Ecotopia - I remember that book

It was interesting. Though I remember something weird about "bird-suits" from it - lol

[marie999]

2. It won't be states against states. Each state is too diverse.

[COL Mustard]

39. There would be parts of Virginia that would want to break away from Northern VA

Where I live. Also, LA, SF and similar areas have nothing at all in common with people in places like Fresno or Bakersfield. It would be ugly.

[SouthernDem4ever]

46. ok we can put parts of the berlin wall up there

I am sure that would make Putin happy

[marie999]

50. Anything that makes the US vulnerable would make Putin happy.

I don't mean he would attack the US, but it could weaken NATO. I don't think he would attack Ukraine or anyone else, but some NATO countries and Ukraine might find it better for them to make nice with Russia. China I don't think would be happy if it caused them to have trade problems. North Korea would be thrilled. So would some countries in the Middle East.

[RevBrotherThomas]

88. Agreed.

This country will be fractured into 20-100 square mile fiefdoms, each with their own chief.

End of Empire isn't pretty.

[marie999]

91. Because of climate change, we will probably end up there anyway.

A vision of The Postman 1997 with Kevin Costner just hit me.

[CrispyQ]

3. Colorado doesn't deserve to be lumped in with all those red states, IMO.

We were one of the first states to legalize weed, medical & recreational. Our voting system is top notch. New Mexico's pretty blue, too. Please, don't write off the entire middle of the country!

[ArizonaLib]

15. Most municipalities are awesome, friendly places to visit or live

My daughter just yesterday sent in her commitment letter to play lacrosse in Durango. Boulder is like heaven (I don't know where else they still enforce criminal prosecution for use of racial slurs). I have had mixed experiences in Denver. I don't have anything good to say about Colorado Springs except if one is traveling to the southern part of Denver, I prefer to fly into Colorado Springs (Denver International is too close to the Kansas state line). Most small towns in Colorado retain the charm they had before the big boxes.

During the 2nd gulf war, I heard someone say that because the US seems prone to invade countries with oil, we should liberate Texas, then invade it. Conversely, I say we should liberate Texas, then when they figure out a state tax base, we invade them, tax the crap out of them and shut down their oil industry.

[lambchopp59]

90. There aren't many exceptions to the rural/urban divide

Relatively recent tour of Colorado revealed the same damn thing practically everywhere: quaint, rustic small towns polluted by "Trump" banners full of expletives, libs "unwelcome" messages, "This is Trump country" proclamations. It's no different than some rural towns here in deep blue California.
Concur, Colorado Springs being that odd exception, the Xtian cabal having long usurped what could have remained a "woke" city. I got a kick out of a "Focus on your own damn Family" bumpersticker I spotted on my way through.
That "FOTF" freeway exit looks like a gate to a prison compound. A mind prison, sure wouldn't want to be the odd guy kid out there...
TFG opened up festering, purulent wounds throughout this nation that will take generations and a return to common sense reality to heal.

[PatrickforB]

16. No doubt. We'll be emigrating to the United States if that is the case...

But how about we stop being 'too nice' ladies and gentlemen and roll over these cretins? We need to play some hardball and use the T word - these people are TRAITORS, plain and simple.

[colorado_ufo]

27. That was my immediate feeling!

Color us "tan!" We tolerate just about everyone, even Republicans.

[Cha]

59. Exactly.. Colorado has a Dem Gov

.. oh and I see they have one Fascist fuck for Senator, Cory Garder.

[Delmette2.0]

76. And don't give them the Air Force missiles in Montana and North Dakota.

I guess if we keep Colorado we get NORAD.

[qazplm135]

4. I just don't see it

most civil wars involve regional geographic separation.

Our separation is urban rural to some extent. Yeah, the South is a thing, but then again you have Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, Charlotte, etc places with a large "blue" populations.

Even Texas has Austin, El Paso, Houston, San Antonio and Dallas as large blue populations.

How's a civil war work in that scenario?

And that map doesn't work.

Colorado and NM would be much more prone to join that blue bit than the green bit.
MI and WI are more prone to join Green than Orange. NC is on the edge might not want to join either. Same with Nevada.

Alaska would be as prone to do their own thing as Texas.

But ultimately I certainly think violence is pretty much guaranteed, but actual civil war, is hard to imagine working in the current paradigm.

[Irish_Dem]

9. It could be city by city like the current truck protest with guns.

Like the house to house urban fighting in WWII.

[qazplm135]

31. I don't think so

I just think that requires a lot more sustained animosity than we have. A willingness to shit in your own bed kind of thing.

[Irish_Dem]

38. The animosity is here

The GOP has killed almost a million people in the US with political rhetoric. That is animosity.

[qazplm135]

41. not remotely to that level

Again let's use Texas since I live here.

Are Texans really going to destroy their own state capital in Austin?
Are they going to destroy their largest port and an economic engine in Houston?
Are they going to destroy a major financial and airline hub in Dallas?
Are they going to destroy "Military City" in San Antonio?

No, they aren't.

We aren't remotely close to the kind of hatred and animosity needed for people to effectively say I'm burning my own house down because it has some "bugs" in it.

[Missn-Hitch]

65. Wow.

Just to your first question? Yes. And - I bet they are willing to storm the state capitol and smear their s**t all over the place.

It's VERY possible. They will burn it all down to rebuild it.

They hate us more than we hate them. And I hate them....a lot.

Cheers!

[qazplm135]

67. no they aren't

if they were, they'd have done it already.

If all of those places were in one area, then you could see calls to split into two areas, and if that didn't work, possible civil war.

But we aren't. Our blue places have red, our red places have blue.

Even within those places there are blue and red places.

It would not be civil war, it would be anarchy.

Now, is an increase in violence a real possibility? Of Course. But that's not civil war.

[Missn-Hitch]

73. Ah! I see where you are coming from. Kinzinger should not have said "civil war".

Rather "political violence" or "anarchy" is a real possibility.

Cheers!

[cannabis_flower]

83. Otoh

I could see thugs from Sugarland, Kingwood or The Woodlands coming into Houston and going into very blue areas and harassing anyone they find with Democratic stickers on their cars or going into blue areas and burning down houses.

[PortTack]

22. ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

[COL Mustard]

42. One thing I understand

Is that Texas supposedly has the right to devolve into 5 states, if they so choose. That would be interesting!

[qazplm135]

43. not true

it's a myth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_divisionism

Proponents argue that the language created a right but the Constitution is pretty clear all states have to be approved by Congress, it doesn't devolve that right to states themselves.

I will edit to say if they did, don't know how they could do it without at least three of the five states being pretty blue given the geographical distance between the various blue pockets.

One state is guaranteed to be dominated by EP.
I don't see how you don't have one that isn't dominated by Austin/SA.

Then you'd have Dallas and Houston.

I suppose you could create a mega blue state with Houston/SA/Austin. Another solid blue with EP. A third purple state with Dallas and then two mega red states with Lubbock and then sort of middle Texas that isn't Austin or Dallas.

Still that's probably a net negative for republicans so five states is never going to happen even if it could.

[Javaman]

92. I read somewhere that if we were to have another civil war, it wouldn't be anything

like the one in the 1800's. there would be no boundaries and would more be like the various civil wars we see in 3rd world countries.

factional violence: such as; skirmish battles, random bombings, a very limited situations of large set piece battles.

that's the kind of form it would take but the old saying goes, "the mission of the underdog is not to win, but it's not to lose" but given the self-righteousness of the rightwing/qanon/fascists; they will want to win and that will be their eventual undoing.

in the mean time, innocent people will die.

[wcmagumba]

5. More likely to be guerrilla type warfare as in Northern Ireland over the years...unfortunately...nt

[Efilroft Sul]

6. Or the former Yugoslavia.

[roamer65]

54. +100000

[Evolve Dammit]

7. the "map" is someone's whimsical creation. Kinzinger's statement is worth discussing however.

[hlthe2b]

8. Nah...CO and NM would go with WA, OR, CA & HI

[PatrickforB]

18. You bet. I don't want anything to do with the right wing-nuts. n/t

[global1]

10. If A Civil War Breaks Out - Militia Against Militia - Can The....

National Guard be activated to stop it?

[ArizonaLib]

17. Yes - JFK federalized the Alabama guard to enforce Brown v Board of Ed

In one federal order, the soldiers were required to turn from protecting the school from the students to protecting the students

[marie999]

51. But can the National Guard be trusted?

[Missn-Hitch]

74. I'm still searching for a left wing militia. My wife and I belong to one but

there are only two members.

[The Jungle 1]

11. Our Marine Corp kitchen staff will put them in bags and serve lunch on time

That is the lesson of 1/6.
Want to stop them? Shut off the beer.
Do you know what one Apache can do to their Beer Mister from over the horizon.
Pop up, blow up, pop down
I guess drones will be all we need.
Here we are blowing up more fascist, again. When will they learn.

[Deep State Witch]

29. Except How Many Service Members

Will throw in their lot with the insurrectionists, if given the chance? How many in the rest of the Federal Government will?

[The Jungle 1]

78. Does not matter how many.

They take off their our uniform and move through the rest of their life as treasonous scum.
The mistake we made at Appomattox was not hanging lee. His friend davis should have also been hung. There should have been punishment and there was none. We are still paying for that mistake.

[bucolic_frolic]

12. Rural militias confronting city and suburban populace unprepared and not seeking conflict

Civilization on the line.

[Dan]

14. I think the rural militias could come into the cities and like Custer

Would not come out!

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

28. They have zero reason to come to the cities

All they need to do is cut power lines, water lines, and highway access to a city in the middle of the winter or summer and just sit. Imagine Atlanta with no electricity, water, and limited food in the middle of August. Or Chicago in the middle of January. They can just starve the cities. Pick off anyone trying to come to repair the damage and sabotage other spots down the line. Gov resources would be split trying to keep the city under control and supplied, fixing the damage, and tracking down whoever did it. They pull something like that in a few cities and it would be a mess. Hell, it would be a mess with just one city.

[Dan]

61. I was responding to post #12.

[Justice matters.]

80. Those are all criminal acts. SWAT teams would intervene.

There still is a Constitution and a US Criminal Code in place.

Stop giving these criminals bad ideas.

[The Jungle 1]

79. It would be interesting

The thought of a militia walking around South Philadelphia is a fun and interesting fantasy.
The men of Philly already chased one group of fascist nazi maggots out of town. They did not come back. Those cowards ran out of town. They covered their cowardly retreat with smoke bombs. Google it. I believe those cowards called themselves the patroit front, as they ran away.
Apparently they had big water stains on the front of their pants.

[C Moon]

13. People have been warning civil war since I can remember. And it's ALWAYS when the Dems win.

[Traildogbob]

19. Where are the

Battlegrounds gonna be? Whole Foods parking lot? Wally World? NASCAR tracks are a good place to bomb. Who will shoot who. Red hats are a gimme. Masked people? States will go bankrupt as will the national economy. Retirements gone. Social Security gone. Medicare and Medicare gone. Jobs dead. Food and medicines not available. When Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas get flattened with massive hurricanes, who ya gonna call. Personally, I will defend myself. May die trying but will take a chuck out of their KKKlan before going down. The billionaires will lose their asses when sports are done, what black Athletes gonna perform for these fools? No cash flow, billionaires lose their asses. And “They” will be major targets from both sides, just for fun and target practice. Covid and other diseases will wipe out all those MAGA populations. Wall construction jobs may be a boom.
The asshole at the insurrection screaming about pulling people in the streets, and cutting off heads. Pure Taliban and ISIS. Why did so many Americans die and get crippled to stop that movement in the Middle East, or the NAZIS in WW2.
All these assholes need to be taken out. Period. Start at the top.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

40. I agree with you

If its a billionaire funding it,a sociopath,narcissist or nazi of any sort, if they start killing innocent people or shutting down cities they all need to be taken out. Goodnight.

[kairos12]

20. that green I've seen labeled before

Dumbfuckistan. And I live there.

[elleng]

21. 'armed groups against armed groups, targeted assassination and violence.'

[mahina]

23. Who benefits? Arms dealers, fossil fuel interest distracting our attention

From climate, Russia, China, Iran,

[BootinUp]

24. I don't think this kind of talk

From an elected official is very helpful.

[erronis]

25. Interesting discussions. Doesn't matter much if the USofA is rendered defenseless

to foreign aggression. A few choice cruise missile strikes to force suing for peace.

Or to homegrown sabotage where our national guard and US-stationed forces are unable to figure out who is in charge.

[Lonestarblue]

26. The possible conflict I see will happen later this year.

If Republicans do not win enough House seats to gain the majority, which elections will they target to throw out enough cotes to win, and how will we know what they’re doing? Supposedly, both Democrats and Republicans should be elections monitors, but some counties in Georgia have already thrown all Democrats off the county elections board.

We cannot rely on polls to identify races that may have been tampered with because they have proven to be highly inaccurate in recent elections (unless Republicans like Lindsey Graham were already cheating). Republican desperately want the Senate majority back so McConnell can go out in a blaze of glory and completely shut down the Biden agenda for two years, at which point his reelection may be unlikely.

And then the real conflict happens in 2024 when Republicans reinstall Trump. I believe Trump will run again unless dementia has finally gotten too bad to hide. He believes he can pardon himself as president and can at least stall all prosecutions against him, probably even state prosecutions with a DOJ again working to protect him. So what do we do as Democrats if we believe Republicans have cheated to give Trump a win. Democrats file lawsuits, and who knows what this Republican Supreme Court would do. I suspect they would follow their own Bush-Gore precedent and stop all vote recounts and just appoint Trump as president. Then what?

[Mr. Ected]

30. Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin's lips curl into a smile

As he watches his devious, diabolical plot unfold.

[NurseJackie]

36. ...

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

32. Gotta love the maps that show the split right along the already existing state borders

That would never happen. Look at the county by county election map and that would be closer but it still wouldn't be accurate. Any possible scenario sees fighting neighborhood by neighborhood. The frontline would be everywhere. Asymmetric warfare doesn't follow neat lines on a map.

[NurseJackie]

33. This is so kooky.

[peppertree]

34. I'd say that's exaggerated - though a wave of RW terrorism is certainly possible

If not taken seriously now, it might grow to resemble what happened in Argentina, Italy, and (to a lesser extent) Germany in the 1970s.

God forbid.

[Roc2020]

35. More violence yes. Civil War...no

Not as long as the U.S $ is the currency of record. Money Talks. Right now there are unknown special forces on alert for such a scenario that would ruthlessly crush any such attempt.

[peppertree]

37. +1

We might (God forbid) see a wave of RW terrorist activity - not unlike what happened in Argentina, Italy, and Germany in the 1970s.

That would be definitely be bad enough to say the least - but "civil war"?

No. Even if some Repug mouth-breathers would like nothing more.

[JohnSJ]

45. We are already in a Civil War, and it will get worse unless the DOJ holds those responsible for

January 6th

[mysteryowl]

47. I completely agree!

We have a cold civil war going on right now, which includes actual violence.

The DOJ has to get going on it. We need justice now.

[JohnSJ]

48. yes

[mysteryowl]

49. The groupings are not correct, IMO.

Wisconsin and Michigan are not what they used to be.

[58Sunliner]

52. Talk is cheap mofo. Maybe he means republicans against the kkk, ws, trumpkins... Please proceed.

If republicans think mouthing Russian talking points is going to gin up the base, the reality of civil war has not hit home yet. Not very responsible. Of course he thinks he will be above the fray.

[Metaphorical]

53. The map is garbage

Last edited Thu Feb 10, 2022, 07:39 PM - Edit history (1)

WA and OR would never join CA.

I find it disturbing but not surprising how, about halfway through the piece, the conservative commentator immediately says "It's the liberal's fault! Everything wrong is because of the absolute control of government by the left." No attempt at analysis, no introspection, not even an awareness of reality, just attack.

I think the unanswered question to me is what do the deep money pockets want. I don't believe that they are motivated purely by ideology - they want a large, mostly unregulated part of the United States where they can act with impunity. I find it significant that most of the legislation at the state level that has been focused on actions that are intended to "drown the government in a bathtub", which is ultimately the end game of ALEC.

[roamer65]

55. The new borders would generally not be state boundaries.

For instance, northern Ohio is more left leaning than southern Ohio.

Toledo and Cleveland make it so.

The closer you get to KY in Ohio, the worse it gets.

[Warpy]

56. Whoever drew that stupid map doesn't know squat, especially about the west

Far east Texas belongs with Dixie. The moron corridor extends north from west Texas, through the Dakotas, over the top through Mand Wyoming and down into Utah. NM and CO are blue and getting bluer and AZ is starting to trend that way, so we'll be lumpd in with CA and the PNW, which means they'll lose that catchy title.

I still don't see civil war breaking out, most right wingers couldn't organize a good sneeze. A tiny minority will succeed at pissing everybody else off with the occasional bombing or shooting spree. 99.9% will be content to continue making nasty posts of Fakebook and cramk phone calls.

I'm sure there are typos iun this, it's been a hell of a day.

[Fiendish Thingy]

57. There will never be another civil war within the US

Nuclear powers don’t have civil wars.

Military coup? Possibly

Extended series of insurrections and skirmishes, like in Ireland? Sure.

But neither of those is a civil war, where opposing factions battle over territory and establish separate governments, as the confederacy did.

The right wing extremists aren’t trying to start a war, they are looking to take power from within, hence all the voter suppression laws.

I do like that map though, too bad it could never become a reality (if you think dissolving the Soviet Union was complicated, imagine trying to create that map- who assumes the national debt? Who controls the nukes? Who pays social security benefits to someone who worked in California all their life, but retired to Texas?)

[Cha]

58. Of Course.. Prepare For the

Worst.

[FreepFryer]

60. Putin's Favorite Wank Fantasy (Nt)

[Skittles]

62. LOL

those fucking cowards would be squashed like the cockroaches they are

[vercetti2021]

63. It wouldn't be a long one

Think most of those overweight militiamen could keep up? Lmao

[Gore1FL]

64. I don't see regional breakups. "Civil war" is going to be ramped up right-wing terrorism.

How that is met by the nation as a whole, I don't know.

This isn't a rebellion of Lee, Longstreet, and Jackson, etc. This is a rebellion of Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, and Stewart Rhodes, etc.

[PatrickforB]

66. It appears I have made a mistake in calling Kinzinger a traitor.

Last edited Fri Feb 11, 2022, 12:32 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm due to be calling my Rep and Senators, and you've saved me some embarassment

Kinzinger is not a traitor, nor is Cheney. Their policies are odious, but they are not traitors. The truth is, I had thoughtlessly lumped Kinzinger in with people like Lauren Boebert, Paul Gosar, Mo Brooks and others. Those people ARE treasonous. But Kinzinger is not.

I do stand corrected!

[radicalleft]

69. What did he say that is not

entirely possible? How does what he said rise to the level of treason?

[Gore1FL]

70. Seems like he and Cheney are the only two in the house that aren't.

He knows his colleagues. He has seen what the GOP has become. He seems afraid of what they will do. How does his warning of what they are capable of make him a traitor?

[jg10003]

68. A more likely map

I made this map over 5 years ago as a warning. Now I believe it is inevitable.

[Corgigal]

71. Kentucky

will not join with Tennessee. All the areas of Kentucky with any money are blue. So drive a line from Louisville to Lexington, then south about 30 miles. This is where money is. Including horses and bourbon.

I see churches here, but it’s nothing like South Carolina or Tennessee.

I so wish a bunch of brave people would move to Tennessee, and fight for that state. It’s so visually beautiful. The RW will ruin it.

[pbmus]

72. hyperbolic...

Last edited Fri Feb 11, 2022, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)

[NurseJackie]

86. It's beyond hyperbole ... it's nutty.

[Ziggysmom]

75. It's like the history of the Protestant vs. Catholic troubles in Northern Ireland.

Catholics and Protestants lived side by side, but they had very few similar social ties or beliefs. The geographic proximity bred violence instead of friendships or mutual tolerance. The Protestants shut the Catholics out of jobs and political power through discrimination and gerrymandering. A cycle of violence followed and thousands died.

The crazy repubes could start battles, and tfg would likely cheer them on.

[The Grand Illuminist]

82. The way I see it, imo......

The right is trying to break the progressives to the point of forcing their opposition into committing acts of mass atrocity. They are goading and dogging.

[ificandream]

77. I think many Repughs would welcome such a thing.

Sad to even think but ...

[The Grand Illuminist]

81. If or when there is one......

It would be more civilian based than anything.

[rockfordfile]

84. that's the kind of crap Russia would push

[Emile]

85. The Civil War will be in the Republican party.

I think so too.

[Blues Heron]

87. Send snacks!

and wipes!

[ancianita]

89. HE might have to recognize, but WE don't have to accept any such thing.

That people fear the armed threateners, both sides' fear can enbolden the armed and civil war can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.


more info from wikipedia

Polling data has demonstrated that most Americans on both sides of the political divide are worried about the political future of the country and consider democratic norms, such as fair and free elections, at risk.[44][45] Polling has also shown that a slim majority consider the U.S. to be in a cold civil war.[46][47] Meanwhile, Georgetown University’s Institute of Politics and Public Service asked voters to rank political division in America on a 0-100 scale, with 100 representing “on the edge of a civil war.” The mean response was 70.36.[48] Other research indicates that between a third and a half of the country is anticipating a civil war in their lifetime, particularly among young, rural Americans who identify as Republican or conservative.[49][50][51][52][53]...

Discussion of Civil War at Trump Rallies
There has been a handful of recorded instances where Trump supporters either predict or threaten for a second civil war during several of Trump's rallies, particularly after Trump lost the 2020 election.[132][133] "Civil War" trended again on Twitter in 2021 after a video of a Trump supporter predicting civil war at an Iowa rally went viral.[134][135] MSNBC reporter Gary Grumbach added that the supporter's call for civil war was echoed at several Trump rallies as a general consensus.[136]

Conroe, Texas Rally
A Trump rally in Conroe, Texas on Jan. 29, 2022, drew significant attention when Donald Trump openly criticized the United States House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack, which was considering a criminal referral in relation to Trump's connection to the attack, and several investigators who were looking into his conduct during the 2020 election.[137] Trump claimed Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, New York Attorney General Letitia James, prosecutor Alvin Bragg, and Rep. Bennie Thompson (D - Miss.), chairman of the select committee, were racists.[138] Trump stated: "If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going have, in this country, the biggest protest we have ever had in Washington, D.C., in New York, in Atlanta, and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt."[139] Many commentators pointed out that Trump's rhetoric around race was particularly troubling, and interpreted it as an attempt to undermine the criminal investigations.[140][141] Willis, who stated she began to receive racist threats after the Conroe rally, requested security assistance from the FBI field office in Atlanta.[142][143] ....

[ck4829]

93. That's crazy.

Last edited Wed Feb 23, 2022, 01:07 PM - Edit history (1)

By the way, billionaires cause inflation.