Poll watchers could bring "chaos" in Ohio and elsewhere, national expert says

[Firebirds01]

Source: The Columbus Dispatch

Forget all that concern about provisional ballots, improperly denied absentee ballot applications and the like.

What is really the biggest wild card for next week’s presidential election in Ohio and elsewhere?

Citizen poll watchers.

So says Doug Chapin of the University of Minnesota, a widely acclaimed expert in how elections are conducted.

“I think the biggest thing to watch next Tuesday is the impact of citizen poll watchers, including but not limited to those affiliated with Houston-based True the Vote,” he said yesterday on his Election Academy blog.

True the Vote and its affiliated Ohio organization, the Voter Integrity Project, have signed up as observers at polling places Tuesday in various precincts across the state.

Read more: http://dispatchpolitics.dispatch.com/content/blogs/the-daily-briefing/2012/11/1-november-2012---poll-chaos.html

---

True the Vote is a Tea Party group whose goal is to diminish voter turnout in minority and poor areas. If you dont know who they are, you need to google them ASAP.

They will try and turn Ohio red by focusing on certain neighborhoods in contested areas.

[GoneOffShore]

1. Really hope they show up in Philadelphia.

There will be "conversations".

[frylock]

12. give them a little brotherly love

[msanthrope]

37. We are ready. nt

[Liberalynn]

2. If they start something

people should call the Police on them immediately and press charges for harrasment.

[The Wizard]

27. Charge them with assault

just say you were shoved and insist that they be cuffed and taken to the station for processing. This will keep them busy for a while.

[JimDandy]

73. Why are you encouraging us to lie and give false statements to the police? Just

keep a ferocious eye on them and if they actually interfer with the voting process in ANY way (sometimes just directing a comment to a voter is interference) tell the election judges to do their duty and call it in AND call it in yourself. Proactive protection of our elections will take care of them. But this means our side MUST put poll watchers at every polling location. It's a ground game to the end now people!

[Dont call me Shirley]

79. They are there specifically to interfere with the voting process.

[Bandit]

82. All they have to do is say they believe someone is not legitimate and that person can not vote

They don't have to say a single thing to anyone but a real election official and that official has to act on their request....If they say they believe you are not who you say you are then if you are allowed to vote at all it will be with a questioned ballot and everyone knows how often those are counted....

[Webster Green]

3. Are there no laws in Ohio to prevent anyone from disrupting the voting process?

I'm an election inspector (in charge of the precinct), in CA. Observers are not allowed to interfere with voters, take pictures, or disrupt the process in any way.

I would ask them to leave, and if they didn't, I would simply call the sheriff, then my field officer, to inform him that I had just called the law.

[Firebirds01]

11. Yeah

you can challenge someone but it has to be for a legit reason. You cant just go "hey he is black let me see his name on the roster because I want to find a way to challenge him." You pull that stuff, you get politely asked to leave. These groups have been looking for ways to challenge people pre-election with methods like claiming "too many people are registered at that residence" or "they only provided their middle initial and not their middle name." However, there is no way to see that stuff if you show up at the polls to "monitor it" only the poll workers have that info.

I think its more to intimidate the poor into thinking they might get arrested for something, get worried, and leave the voting line.

[Ms. Toad]

55. Actually - in Ohio "you" can't challenge anyone

at the polling place on election day. The only permitted challenges at the polling place are by election officials. ORC 3505.20 & 3513.19

Challenges by registered voters had to be filed at least 20 days before the election. http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/Upload/elections/directives/2012/Dir2012-30.pdf

[leveymg]

17. They can't even get into the polls without a Dem or GOP inside poll watcher form

The election officers will throw them out if they make an inappropriate fuss inside.

And, if someone hassles voters waiting in line outside -- no one has to answer any questions or talk to these goons -- just call the cops.

[Ms. Toad]

63. Unless the line is longer than 100 feet out the door

(in Ohio), they can't even work the line.

[leveymg]

77. I suspect the "expert" referenced in the OP never did any election protection work.

[Ms. Toad]

86. That would be my guess, as well.

I started reading the article, and ... lets just say much of it does not match with any reality I have encountered.

[monmouth]

18. I'm very concerned with those "patches" put into those tabulators. n/t

[Maeve]

25. The ONLY people allowed to challenge a voter are the precinct election officials

And then only if the person is not a resident of the county or state, not a citizen or not of legal voting age. Our laws are similar to yours in CA; yes, we can call the sheriff if needed, as well.

[meeshrox]

39. Yes, and here in Florida

it is a misdemeanor to falsely challenge a voter. They have to sign an affidavit and all. I'm volunteering for the Obama campaign at the polls. But, because I'm not a lawyer I'll be outside helping the more qualified volunteers that are inside.

Observers and poll watchers are not allowed to interfere or even speak to a voter, everything has to happen through the SOE-designated person in charge on site. Each state is different, though.

[hockeynut57]

4. i'll be voting in ohio on tuesday

and i truly hope some of the RW idiots try to hassle me. i'm normally a peaceful, non-confrontational type of guy, but lately i've been itching for a fight

[cui bono]

13. Well make sure you don't get arrested until AFTER you vote!

[hockeynut57]

21. already considered, with bail money set aside so i can still drive voters to the polls nt

[uwbadgerdem]

36. A hockey player...

so you know how to handle yourself. Yup, pull the ol's sweater over the head and go to town...

[hockeynut57]

45. and i'm from the "hood"!! nt

[Maeve]

26. Tell your poll workers if you are hassled in the least

They are responsible for protecting the vote and the voters. You have your rights; you don't need to get arrested!

[lumpy]

5. By now we have to realize that this is one of the most crucial elections in our

history. There are active groups, including the GOP who has been successfully taken over by these groups, who would change the very nature of our government.

[randome]

6. Camera phones. Camera phones everywhere.

Poll watchers should not take the chance that their actions will be misinterpreted.

[SaveAmerica]

16. We had to turn phones off when entering to vote in NC

[randome]

20. I didn't think about that. I guess the privacy of voting trumps all else.

[OldHippieChick]

30. So, turn off the phone and bring a camera!!

[SaveAmerica]

85. In NC you have to get permission of chief judge of the precinct and voter

before taking a picture.

I was going to take a picture of a man and his little boy who was standing beside him while he voted, it was just so cute. Then I thought about it and realized it wouldn't be a good idea; I could accidentally get his or another ballot in the picture. It didn't feel right so I didn't take the picture. I asked then if I could take a picture of my kid who was voting for the first time and was told no, and that I had to turn off my phone while in the voting area.

Now that I'm looking at the law (because of this discussion) I see that I should have asked whoever was the chief judge to take the picture.

Maybe we should have people looking at the laws of each state before Tuesday?

NC:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_163/GS_163-166.3.html



§ 163‑166.3. Limited access to the voting enclosure.

(a) Persons Who May Enter Voting Enclosure. – During the time allowed for voting in the voting place, only the following persons may enter the voting enclosure:

(1) An election official.

(2) An observer appointed pursuant to G.S. 163‑45.

(2a) A runner appointed pursuant to G.S. 163‑45, but only to the extent necessary to announce that runner's presence and to receive the voter list as provided in G.S. 163‑45.

(3) A person seeking to vote in that voting place on that day but only while in the process of voting or seeking to vote.

(4) A voter in that precinct while entering or explaining a challenge pursuant to G.S. 163‑87 or G.S. 163‑88.

(5) A person authorized under G.S. 163‑166.8 to assist a voter but, except as provided in subdivision (6) of this section, only while assisting that voter.

(6) Minor children of the voter under the age of 18, or minor children under the age of 18 in the care of the voter, but only while accompanying the voter and while under the control of the voter.

(7) Persons conducting or participating in a simulated election within the voting place or voting enclosure, if that simulated election is approved by the county board of elections.

(8) Any other person determined by election officials to have an urgent need to enter the voting enclosure but only to the extent necessary to address that need.

(b) Photographing Voters Prohibited. – No person shall photograph, videotape, or otherwise record the image of any voter within the voting enclosure, except with the permission of both the voter and the chief judge of the precinct. If the voter is a candidate, only the permission of the voter is required. This subsection shall also apply to one‑stop sites under G.S. 163‑227.2. This subsection does not apply to cameras used as a regular part of the security of the facility that is a voting place or one‑stop site.

(c) Photographing Voted Ballot Prohibited. – No person shall photograph, videotape, or otherwise record the image of a voted official ballot for any purpose not otherwise permitted under law. (2001‑460, s. 3; 2005‑428, s. 1(b); 2007‑391, s. 23; 2008‑187, s. 33(a).)

[Bernardo de La Paz]

68. Not all voter intimidation will start or occur or finish inside the polling station. Have cameras.nt

[wordpix]

91. videocams are best

[Comrade_McKenzie]

7. They should be preemptively rounded up. nt

[SCVDem]

8. Who watches the watchers?

Just tell them to get lost and if they don't, scream "ASSAULT"!

I wonder how many will get decked?

[onethatcares]

51. instead of "assault"

just say very loudly, "Get your hands off of me" and back up.

then call the police.

[still_one]

9. That is why people who can vote early should

[Tommy_Carcetti]

10. Sad.

When I was a poll watcher for the Democratic Party back in 2004, the only thing I was told to do was to make sure that no voters were being unfairly prevented from voting.

Shows the difference in priorities between liberals and conservatives.

[justiceischeap]

14. Stands to reason the Obama camp will probably employ

poll watchers to watch the poll watchers. It's getting ridiculous. It's almost like we need to figure out how to vote from the privacy of our homes so we aren't harassed.

[Iwasthere]

24. i just voted from my home... called vote by mail... Oregon.. i can take my time and no lines.

My family of 5 proudly all voted Obama, as well as my inlaws and all my friends

[lexw]

28. We always vote by mail. I voted 2 weeks ago.

[wordpix]

92. me, too

[Ms. Toad]

57. Assign observers - yes

The purpose isn't to watch the poll watchers, it is to watch the process to make sure no one is denied the right to vote, or forced to cast a provisional ballot when they are entitled to cast a non-provisional, etc.

The goal is to have at least one in each precinct (or cluster of precincts if they are housed in the same location). I've been volunteering as an observer since 10/2. (And, until last Saturday there were no observers in my county BOE other than me. The R's put in a token appearance on Saturday)

[NorthCarolina]

15. Considering that we are faced with

Newly enacted voter ID laws that are geared towards suppressing the vote,
GOP Voter roll purges,
Electronic Voting Machines (EVM's) that are "operating as intended" for vote flipping, and controlled by the GOP
GOP Poll "Watchers" dispatched to heavily D areas to discourage minority voting,
GOP Governors and election officials in swing states willing and able to change vote tally's (already happening in FL early voting)...

I see a repeat of the 2000 election sans Supreme Court intervention. Democrats should have dealt with voting issues in the first 2 years of Obama's term when they had the chance.

[sdfernando]

43. 24 days

24 days. That is the total amount of time during Obama's 1st two years in office when there was a filibuster proof Congress. 24 days, and not all at once. Almost nothing can get one in that space of time.

[lunasun]

78. Yes and senate Dems should have tried in 2000 to least bring it out in the light more -even if it

was not in control
some of the truth would have been brought out before being struck down at least
and in 2004 more eyes on fraud

[DallasNE]

19. The Solution For This Is For The Election Supervisor At Each Polling Location

To call the police and have them removed the first time they cross the line by engaging anyone waiting to vote. The rules are clear and the activities limited so just enforce the rules.

[Botany]

22. They will not cause any problems at any location where good people .....

..... like me and other trained voter protection people are working.

Because:

Only one person is allowed inside the precinct per party as an observer ....
and if the state GOP credentials these a-holes then they will be neutered
because nobody outside of a poll worker can challenge a voter's right to
vote ...... and those are for a very limited # of cases ..... so if they are
inside the precinct and cause problems they will be asked to leave.

If they come out from Texas or any state outside of Ohio THEY AREN'T
ALLOWED INSIDE A POLLING PRECINCT.

Nobody is allowed to interact w/ a voter with in a 100' of the front door
of the poll.

I can't tell you everything but we have been getting ready for a long time
for this election. This is not in 2004!

BTW We have ways to catch voting fraud (cheating) @ the machine level too.

BTW part 2 ..... a good % of the vote will already be in the bag by election day
because of early voting ..... I worked an 98% African American precinct in 2008
and 60%+ of the voters registered to vote at the precinct had already voted.

[JDPriestly]

42. I assisted in voter protection in Ohio in 2008.

The people allowed to go inside had to be lawyers from Ohio.

Just have enough volunteers outside, some distance from the polls, quietly observing, cameras ready, so that legitimate voters are not frightened or intimidated and there will be no problem.

[Botany]

48. i am one of the few non lawyers who work inside the polls

This will be my 3rd Presidential election and my 5th overall.

Team Obama has real juice when it comes to election protection ....
we don't f*** around.

[Ms. Toad]

65. Not lawyers -

(Although the OFA group recruited heavily among lawyers), you just have to be a registered voter in Ohio (appointed by the county or state party). About 1/3 of my training group were attorneys.

[Ms. Toad]

66. 2 per party -

Both the county and state parties can appoint observers. (Often this is the same person - I'm appointed by both entities, and for practical reasons (i.e. difficulty in recruiting so may people) there probably won't be more than one...although last Saturday the Rs had two...for about 45 minutes, then one for another hour or so... then that one got bored and left so I was the sole observer for the next 4 hours or so.

[longship]

23. I was a poll watcher in KS.

There, poll watchers are forbidden to interfere in any way with the voting process. We could make notes of irregularities, but nothing else. We couldn't even speak to voters. You sit; you watch; and if there are irregularities you left the polling station and immediately report it to the legal team who dealt with it.

Those were our instructions from the party. And yes, there was a team of lawyers on hand, and on call.

[Ford_Prefect]

29. If this was in Mississippi, Alabama or Kentucky

you would have FBI looking into it but not in Lilly white Ohio

[onehandle]

31. I'm a Democratic poll watcher in PA. Teafucks will not stop anyone from voting at my station.

Democrat or Republican.

[ejbr]

32. They just might turn Ohio red

because some people may feel obliged to beat them to a pulp.

[Mc Mike]

33. The same TX repugs who are flipping out about UN observers coming near 'their' TX polling places

exports their nazis to our polling places to 'observe'.

[Maeve]

34. In Ohio, Observers MAY not:

Handle materials
Disrupt or intimidate voters or Precinct Election Officials
Violate the secrecy of the ballot or the privacy of the voter
Use cell phones, digital phones or other devices o\to discuss the election within the polling location
Take photographs or record video within 20 feet of a voter
Interfere with poll workers or slow down the operation of the polling location
Interfere with voters in a way that interferes with or disrupts the election
Serve as enforcers of the laws
Act as advocates for voters in front of the precinct election officials
Engage in any kind of election campaigning

One warning, second time they are to be asked to leave and the situation is to be documented
(from the Franklin Co BOE training manual for general election 2012, emphasis added by me)

[Ms. Toad]

56. Although it isn't in that list -

observers also may not challenge voters (at the polling place on election day) - there is a separate procedure that must be used for challenges by other qualified electors.

(Dem observer for both early voting and on election day)

[Maeve]

74. Yep--posted that further up the thread

You and I are sort of the Ohio tag-team on the polls, Ms. Toad!

[Ms. Toad]

87. I've noticed that -

I hit the ones that caught my attention first, then scrolled through and caught your note upthread.

It's a good thing. That way it is more likely that one of us will be able to address what the law and directives actually say about how things are supposed to work.

ETA - of course neither one of us will be around on election day, so someone else better start learning this stuff. I've been moved from my original location...apparently I took my early observation duty too seriously for the lower priority location they originally assigned me to and they are now fighting over me for three other positions. When the dust settles I guess they'll tell me where to show up - but wherever it is, I don't expect to be on DU between poll open and poll close on election day.

[Maeve]

90. Nice to be wanted!

Good luck to both of us on on jobs Tuesday!

[Posteritatis]

76. That would be disrupting or intimidating voters, no? (nt)

[Ms. Toad]

88. Not really -

There is a process for registered voters to challenge other voters. At one point (and possibly still in some states) that challenge could take place at the polls on election day.

In Ohio, that is still possible in advance of election day. One challenge I heard of was that a list was developed that included Democratic voters who were registered at the same address with a certain number of other registered voters (I don't recall how many - perhaps 6). Registered voters in each precinct then used the formal challenge process to challenge each of the people on the lists.

These challenges (in Ohio, at least) take place in advance of election day - but the challenges themselves aren't treated as disrupting or intimidating voters.

[Texin]

35. I'm just hoping the Obama state/local election people

are telling the folks to come with any and everything they think they might need (especially minority voters) at the poll should they be challenged - whether it's legal in a particular state or not. To wit, drivers license, photo ID, passport, credit card(s) with photo ID, birth certificate, property title, etc. etc.

I'm being facetious, of course, but forewarned is forearmed.

[JDPriestly]

44. Yes. Especially first-time voters.

Be sure you have your ID and something showing that you live at your address -- maybe a bill or something like that. A copy of your lease?

[thelarge]

38. Dorr and Detroit

We be waitin" here in Toledo!

[Botany]

40. update .... they are all bluster

"True The Vote only credentialed 27 observers for Franklin County."

This is from the top too.

also from the top

"We're gonna have someone with eyes on them to make sure nothing is going on under our radar."

[Mr.Bill]

41. As a California poll worker, all I can say is

bring it on, teabaggers!

[irisblue]

46. Thank you for this info.

on Saturday, we four white middle aged women will be voting at the Franklin County, Columbus Ohio early voting center on Morse Rd. ...at lunch time, so we all can celebrate later that afternoon. I'm relishing the idea of being approached, sadly i look like I could be a R.

[Pakid]

47. The first one to bother me get his head up his ass

[Third Doctor]

49. This is easy.

Knock them the fuck out.

[geardaddy]

50. Look at this disgusting comment.

"ANDREW PORTER (ANDYP)
What out for the van loads of Somailis and illegals. The Dems already have gotten the cemetary vote."

So, Somalis who are US citizens can't vote? Andrew, you're a turd.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. Knuckledragger AndyP (Andrew Porter) cannot spell, or think straight. nt

[goclark]

52. I'm African American

Sounds like it is way past time for our community to get some extra people out there from the NAACP etc.

They should have some back up people in the lines that look like Mike Tyson at his best.

I'm calling the NAACP right now.

[railsback]

53. Well, I hope Ohio and elsewhere

have harassers lined up to harass the harassers. I'll pitch in for some bail money.

[argiel1234]

54. kicking

[flamingdem]

58. Please see this post for phone numbers and tweetable info about Election Protection

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251197937

[brooklynite]

59. Unless the rules are different elsewhere...

...you can't be a pollwatcher without approval of a specific campaign or Party, and to be authorized, you have to be an in-State resident. True the vote can stand outside and harrass people, but they don't have any legal authority.

[Ms. Toad]

62. They vary by state -

In Ohio you have to be registered to vote in Ohio (not just a resident), and you have to be appointed by an entity with appointing powers (in my case, OFA coordinated with the state and county Dem. party to get me credentialed). The credentialing form is filed with the Secretary of State - and I have to carry a copy of a different form with me. If I don't have it (or the credentialing form didn't get forwarded from the SOS to the proper BOE, I am not permitted to "loiter" inside the 100 foot markers.

[progressivebydesign]

60. They can't win unless they cheat, steal, bully, and suppress. So bring EVERYTHING to the polls

If you're going to be voting at the polls, err on the side of ridiculousness. Bring ID, bring a utility bill, bring your voter registration card. Know your laws, as many have changed in the past few years, and bring what you think you might need. If you got an absentee ballot but decide to vote in person, make sure TODAY how your State/County handles that, as many are different (many require the envelope and ballot,) etc. Avoid having to cast a "provisional" ballot, as people here have said they don't get counted in the election, in most cases.

Today is the day to take care of this stuff and to be sure you're good to go. That gives you a few business days to clear things up.

As far as the reTHUGlican poll watchers. Know your rights, and bring the number for the various poll abuse hotlnes with you, written down in case you need it.

But it sounds like this is mostly a huge bluff, as they don't have a ton of people signed up to do this... typical teabagger BS, paid for by the Koch Brothers .

[Politicub]

61. Voter intimidation at the polls. Is this really America circa 2012 or 1912?

I'm so sick of the tea party. Can't wait until they're consigned to the dustbin of history.

[louis-t]

64. It could get really ugly.

Hopefully, the local election officials will not put up with this crap. People should know they can call the police if they are being harrassed. I hope this bunch of thugs falls flat on their faces and rumnuts loses big.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

67. Go in at least pairs, one with video cam phone or stills. Upload to the web as you go so that it

Go in at least pairs, one with video cam phone or stills. Upload to the web as you go so that it can't be confiscated or erased.

In any confrontation, have one person discreetly hang in the background, videoing.

[Madmiddle]

70. They're stealing the election in Florida already!!!!

[hedgehog]

71. I can't find a link, but when we had a special race up here for Congress,

and the Tea Party took a big interest, some out-of-state poll watchers (from Texas?) got into big trouble when they tried to barge into the election site. New York has a strict rule banning campaigning inside the election site.

[Madmiddle]

72. They're stealing the elction in Florida.

[underthematrix]

80. don't think so. ANON is on their ass like a flea on a dog

and then there's the DOJ.

[Canuckistanian]

75. People should volunteer to record them on video

Then, if ANY harassment tactics are used, there's PROOF.

[AsahinaKimi]

81. Its simple... The Republicans will try to steal this election

by any means possible and we have to be vigilant and expect the unexpected.

[Anthony McCarthy]

83. We need a federal law

We need a federal law that it's a major felony to try to prevent a legitimate voter from voting and having their vote counted. I'd suggest a permanent loss of the ability to vote as well as a prison term. Covering federal judges and Supreme Court members as well. Loss of a judgeship should be automatic.

[Firebirds01]

84. federal elections

should be handled by the federal government...not by states full of people who hate whatever demographic is the current target.


State and local elections can be handled by the state. But fed should be different.

[blkmusclmachine]

89. Screw the vote