Russia says US submarine violated its waters in far east

[Ghost Dog]

Source: Jerusalem Post

... The submarine was spotted near the Kuril islands early on Saturday as Russia was conducting naval exercises with its Pacific Fleet and it was ordered to surface immediately, the Russian ministry was quoted as saying.

It said the order was ignored by the US submarine's crew, leading the crew of Russia's Marshal Shaposhnikov frigate to use unspecified "corresponding means" to make the vessel leave...


Read more: https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-696268

---

According to Tass:

... According to the ministry, a Virginia-class submarine belonging to the US Navy was detected on February 12, 2022 at 10.40 (Moscow Time).

Under the guiding documents on protection of the Russian state border in the underwater environment, the crew of the Pacific Fleet’s frigate Marshal Shaposhnikov used appropriate means. The US submarine started a self-propelled simulator to split the target image on radar and acoustic control means into two parts and retreated from Russian territorial waters at a maximum speed, the ministry said...

[roamer65]

1. Fuck off, Putin.

[orangecrush]

32. +1

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. Says he who is jonesing to violate Ukraine's territory.

[blue-wave]

20. for the second time

[greatauntoftriplets]

22. Exactly.

Pot, meet kettle.

[davsand]

3. A couple observations about this.

First off, it was reported by Russia. They are not exactly noted for propaganda free news. NOT sayin it didn't happen, but I tend to view anything from them with a pretty jaded eye.

Second, those subs ARE noted for being almost impossible to find if they don't want to be. If this all went down as the Russian media is reporting, I have to wonder if this was some "dick waving" going on. Maybe this was a way to let Putin know just how close we can get to them if we want to.

Just sayin.


Laura

[Irish_Dem]

5. I thought the same thing.

[pandr32]

19. Absolutely

[blue-wave]

21. Or is it a test

of reaction if Russia plans on rolling out a false flag.

[paleotn]

23. Russians stating the obvious as though it's some kind of great coup

It's not a Russian "lake." The US Silent Service visits the Black Sea often. Particularly now. They detected nothing probably, but anyone with half a brain knows we're there.

On edit. Russia's Pacific coast. Not the Black Sea. We go there a lot too. Have for ages.

[Sapient Donkey]

26. This didn't happen in the Black Sea

I think it's a little north of Japan.

[paleotn]

27. US submarines know those waters almost as well as the Russians.

[Sapient Donkey]

28. I have little doubt about that.

[Calista241]

4. I'd be surprised if they actually detected a Virginia, much less detected one in their own waters.

[DENVERPOPS]

24. Perhaps the Russians stupidly revealed some new sonar

technology of theirs that we didn't know about, and that is capable of now detecting our newest subs.

If so, they stupidly just revealed something we needed to know and that they really didn't mean to reveal ??????????

Also revealed, was one of our subs defense techniques that the Russians now know about??????

[PoliticAverse]

6. The Bedford Incident

[Marcuse]

37. "If he fires one, I'll fire one." "FIRE ONE!"

[Sherman A1]

7. And so it begins.....

[BlueIdaho]

8. Maybe we should talk about Russian subs for a while...

Just how many costal incursions of Soviet subs and spy ships have we seen in America’s territorial waters in the last few years? Four? Six?

[Ghost Dog]

31. I have searched but I find zero references to incursions

into US territorial waters by Russian submarines nor spy ships in recent years.

[The Jungle 1]

9. This is how false flag wars are started!

[Sherman A1]

14. Precisely

That is exactly hot it happens.

[JudyM]

10. Here's an UPDATE

Link to tweet

War games.

[keithbvadu2]

17. Trump would tell.

He told how many were off the Korean areas.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=trump+submarines+near+korea

The Pentagon Can't Believe Trump Told Another President About Nuclear Subs Near North Korea

“We never talk about subs!”

China and Russia knew how many to look for.

[JudyM]

30. Right!

His actions aren’t far enough into the oblivion of history, unf.

[nvme]

11. ISN'T IT COINCIDENTAL?

We mention false flag, the Russians are piling on the Ukraine and suddenly our subs are mysteriously in Russian waters.

[William769]

12. To me, Russia is just like TFG, everything out of your mouth is a lie.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. ...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

16. Kelly lived over here in Collingswood for a bit.

Still waiting on that sequel.

[BumRushDaShow]

18. I remember when they were filming it and there was all this excitement

I guess the pandemic killed the scheduled release.

It's apparently now going to release May 27 this year -

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

15. I call BS on them even being able to find a Virginia Class

let alone this incident actually happening.

[paleotn]

25. Probably not. They're simply stating the obvious....

Of course US submarines are operating in the Black Sea right now. Probably on their doorstep. A primary objective since the damn things were invented is to operate in the other guy's territorial waters undetected. Right up to their back door if necessary.

[SKKY]

29. This didn't happen.

[cab67]

33. actually....

...I would guess that it did, but independently of any Russian claims to have detected the sub.

We've been keeping our subs close to (if not within) Russian waters since the 1950's. So I would be shocked if we did NOT have any subs there now.

That being said, I highly doubt the Russians actually detected one. They're probably making a false claim that carries plausibility because our subs are almost certainly there.

(They've been operating their subs close to, if not within, American waters throughout the same period.)

[SKKY]

41. It didn't. Russia is looking for a pretext to act. Given the hightened tensions...

...our subs wouldn't get too close. They don't have to. Anything they can and/or would do can be done from way, way further out. Getting that close would be an unnecessary risk.

[cab67]

58. by "it did,"

I don't mean the Russians detected an American sub. You're right - that's an effort to build pretext.

I meant that the US almost certainly has subs almost in, if not actually in, Russian Pacific waters. That's probably why Russia made up this particular story; even if they didn't encounter a sub, no one questions that the subs are there.

[cab67]

34. reminds me of one of the best episodes of Nova ever made -

THe whole thing is on Youtube, but for some reason I can't seem to copy the entire URL for that.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/subsecrets/

[dlk]

35. Aren't the Russians touchy, given their gross violation of Ukraine's sovereignty

Like all bullies, they can dish it out but can’t take it.

[Baitball Blogger]

36. .

[AntiFascist]

38. Russia's far east may not be that secure at the moment n/t

[marie999]

39. Why not?

[AntiFascist]

40. With military resources concentrated in Eastern Europe, this could be an opportunity for China...

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/threat-china.htm

-snip

Russia has plenty to be wary of: tens of millions of Chinese live across the border from a Russian region that is virtually devoid of people and home to an astounding wealth of natural resources. Most of the population is packed into the tiny sliver of land on the Pacific coast known as Primorye, a sliver that blocks China from having access to the Sea of Japan.

... the Russian Far East is thinly populated, has little infrastructure, and a small Russian military contingent. With the Russian army restructured to rapidly respond to small-scale wars, Russia would have to rely on its nuclear deterrent to prevent a Chinese attack.

-snip

[Texaswitchy]

42. Stupid for Putin to playing with NATO and not see China as an enemy.

The border with China is rather long.

[marie999]

43. They need each other for now. Russia, China, and North Korea are just going to see what they can do

without causing a major war.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

44. I suspect that the Russian/Chinese "alliance"

is much like the Hitler/Stalin "alliance", neither one trusts each other and will turn on one another given the right opportunity.

[Texaswitchy]

45. Exactly.

Look how Hitler turned on Russia in WW2.

How much territory could China take.

Putin is just greedy.

Also pissed off with President Biden in the White House.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

46. I remember a little story from my military days,

it went something like this:

Russia declared war on China,
on the first day, the Russian Army captured 1 million Chinese,
on the second day, they captured 5 million more Chinese,
on the third day, they captured 10 million more Chinese, and,
on the fourth day, the Russians surrendered..

[Texaswitchy]

47. Good one.

Like Hitler taking on Russia.

That was a stupid move.

That long supply line.



China would eat Russia alive.

Just with their population alone.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

48. +100.

Another one went like this:
Russia threatens to wipe out 500 million Chinese in a nuclear strike,
the Chinese president says "proceed, we have 500 million more".

You're right, the Chinese would overwhelm the Russian Army in a conventional war.

[Texaswitchy]

49. Yes.

Putin should have a massive army on the Chinese border.

Not pissing off the west.

[Texaswitchy]

50. I had a neighbor who was German war bride after WW2.

The only member of her family to survive the war.

Her two older brothers died fighting the Russian Army on the eastern front.

The bodies were never found.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

51. The 2 gravest mistakes, IMO, the Axis made in WWII,

was Hitler invading the Soviet Union and the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor, which could be classified as a defeat for the Japanese, not only did they instantly unite the country, but they missed the Carriers and also missed the oil farm tanks.

[Texaswitchy]

52. A big mistake.

Sure was.


My Father went to work in a shipyard.

My Mother followed making Liberty ships as a welder.

America started mass production of war materials.

We just outproduce the enemy.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

53. ....

We just outproduce the enemy.

Exactly!!!

This is exactly what Adm. Yamamoto had warned about, he basically said that his forces would run wild in the Pacific for the first 6 months, after that, then America would outproduce the Japanese Empire.

He was right, exactly 7 months later, the Imperial Japanese Navy suffered a crushing defeat at Midway Island, losing 4 frontline Carriers, a defeat which they never recovered from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway#:~:text=Battle%20of%20Midway%20military,conflict%20date%204%E2%80%937%20June%201942

[Texaswitchy]

54. My parents saved all their pay stubs.

My parents worked a lot of overtime.

Liberty ships were made very quickly.

More then could be sunk.

The workers at home never got the glory they deserved.

My mother said people would just sleep in their cars or in the dormatories that were set up.

They had cafeterias to feed the workers.

Amazing times.

The home front worked hard.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

55. Your parents are amazing people,

Both my parents, god rest their souls, contributed to the war effort also, my mother worked as a welder while my father was in the Pacific island hopping.

He was adamantly opposed to me enlisting in the Marines to serve in Vietnam, he thought that I should head to Canada, which is something I just could not do.

The Marines made me the productive citizen I am today and I have never regretted my 35 years in the Corps.

War is hell.

[Texaswitchy]

56. My Father did go into the Navy in 1943.

Trained for PBY flying boats.

Suppose to go the Pacific but never got that far.

He did convoy duty in the Gulf and the Atlantic.

Those Nazi subs were everywhere.

[Texaswitchy]

57. One of my brothers was a marine during Vietnam.

Made it home alive.

Messed up but alive.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

59. I did 2 tours in Vietnam

came home from my second tour pretty effed up in the head, luckily I had a very good support system in place with my wife and mine and her family so I managed to work through it, because back then, PTSD help was very scarce and it wasn't considered Marine to seek professional help.

[Texaswitchy]

60. My brother had that also.

Had problems got help.

But both of y'all made it home.

My brother had a friend a marine also, a door Gunner on helicopter.

He lasted one day.

Really.

First time out.

That was about 1967 or 1968.

He went in at 17 I think.

[Ghost Dog]

61. By this logic...

Why doesn't the USA invade Canada?

[AntiFascist]

64. You really need to ask?

We happen to respect Canada's autonomy as a liberal democracy (even under a constitutional monarchy).
Also, the division of American colonies (later becoming states) and Canadian territories has long been settled by treaties that both sides respect.

Having said that, who knows what Trump would try if he were given free reign.

Ancient China did lay claim to part of Siberia in the past, but it probably wasn't suitable for an agrarian society at that time. The Amur annexation by Russia was forced upon the Qing dynasty of China. Also, as we have seen, both Russia and China seem to have little problem disrespecting neighboring nations' claims to autonomy with their expansionist tendencies.

Russia and China may be presenting a strong alliance at the Olympics, but if WW3 should happen to ignite, China could conceivably turn into the strongest aggressor in that region.

[Ghost Dog]

66. Good reasoning.

But I see no signs modern China seeks to expand its frontiers beyond current boundaries.

China does seek to do business everywhere, though.

[AntiFascist]

67. China's business ties with the US may work against any strong alliance with Russia...

and they are no stranger to aggression: there's the Indian border disputes in the Himalayas, aggression towards Taiwan, and of course cracking down on the former British colony of Hong Kong.

[oldsoftie]

62. Be nice for Ukraine could put a few subs to use if they're attacked

If only someone could give them a few.
Lost the only one they had when Russia took Crimea

[AngryOldDem]

63. Putin trying to gin up war....

[mn9driver]

65. This version of the story is extremely unlikely.

The Virginia class is the most advanced stealth attack submarine in the US inventory. The Russians would not have been able to detect it unless the sub wanted to be detected.

And even if they deliberately allowed themselves to be detected, it is pretty safe money to bet that there was another, undetected, sub in the area observing the whole thing.