Russia Uses Hypersonic Missiles in Ukraine for First Time

[AntiFascist]

Source: AFP

Russia used its newest Kinzhal hypersonic missiles on Friday to destroy an underground missile and ammunition storage site in western Ukraine close to the border with NATO member Romania, in what analysts said was the first use of such weapons in the world.

snip...

Russian President Vladimir Putin has termed the Kinzhal air-launched missile "an ideal weapon" that flies at 10 times the speed of sound and can overcome air-defense systems.

snip...

Russia leads the hypersonics race, followed by China and the United States, and several other countries are working on the technology.

snip... Russia might be running out of Iskander short-range ballistic missile systems or wanted to raise the stakes by deploying a nuclear-capable hypersonic missile in Ukraine.



Read more: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/19/russia-uses-advanced-hypersonic-missiles-in-ukraine-for-the-first-time-a77000

[COL Mustard]

1. If it works like the rest of their military

I'll sleep just fine tonight.

[AntiFascist]

3. Could be a sign of desperation...

also the psychological and propaganda effect, mentioned in the article, to scare everyone.

[C_U_L8R]

2. How many zillions of Rubles did they just blow on one of those speedy death missiles?

Russia gonna be hyper-broke.

[IronLionZion]

4. hypersonic missiles

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/kinzhal-missile-russia-ukraine-hypersonic-weapon-b2039678.html

Hypersonic missiles are thought to be the next generation of arms as they can travel at exceptionally high speeds, more than five times the speed of sound. Their speed, maneuverability and altitude are thought to make them difficult to track and intercept, rendering them almost unstoppable. Until recently, hypersonic missiles have remained a closely guarded secret however President Vladimir Putin has made no secret of Russia’s investment in the weapons which he insists were only created in response to the US deployment of a strategic missile defense system.

Carried by MiG-31K fighter jets, it can fly at 10 times the speed of sound - 7,672 mph - and can hit a target some 1,250 miles away.

For comparison, the US Tomahawk cruise missile - a subsonic long range missile system - can travel at around 550 mph.

The US, China, UK, France, and others are keeping these weapons quiet but Russia is out there waving their dicks around.

[AntiFascist]

7. NORAD has recently warned the US and Canada about not being able to detect them...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/north-america-vulnerable-to-russian-and-chinese-hypersonic-weapons-norad-commander-1.5825995

North America vulnerable to Russian and Chinese hypersonic weapons: NORAD commander

although:

“It’s the same with any weapon: if we act scared, they will leverage it against us,” he said. “I think they think we are susceptible to coercion, and it is not beyond impossible that they would not fire one at an oil facility in Edmonton to demonstrate their capability, especially if we simultaneously got actively involved in Ukraine and also publicly demonstrated our concern.”

The problem with hypersonics, Boyd adds, is once launched, there’s no way to know if they’re carrying a nuclear warhead.

“The unpredictability, I think, is where Russia is different from China for this specific thing,” he said. “Having these weapons doesn’t necessarily make Russia and China stronger, it actually just makes the whole situation a little bit more unstable.”

Even if the U.S. doesn’t have hypersonic weapons, Spencer-Churchill believes its massive nuclear arsenal remains a robust deterrent to a larger war with Russia.

[IronLionZion]

8. It could be Russia sending a message to NATO

considering the proximity to NATO countries, they could do some damage

[Igel]

34. The response is simple.

Tell Russia that we've streamlined many aspects of the nuclear arming system.

10 missiles are in the alternative regime, and the key is that as soon as a hypersonic missile is detected over NATO space it will be assumed to be a nuclear first strike.

If NATO's wrong--then it's Russia's fault.

Make sure the notice is private and then 24 hours later leaked to every media source with more than 18 subscribers.

And then grow a spine and implement it.

Sometimes the way to avoid a level of actual risk with bullies is to show willingness to assume a level of potential risk. Paradoxes are cool.

[EX500rider]

39. "Even if the U.S. doesn't have hypersonic weapons" We do

Just not flat trajectory, our ICBM warheads hit 13,000–18,000 mph on reentry, twice as fast as the Russian thing.

[reACTIONary]

20. Well, I havent researched it but this does not seem right...

"Carried by MiG-31K fighter jets, it can fly at 10 times the speed of sound..."

To my knowledge, hypersonic are reentry vehicles. They are boosted up to suborbital space, then turn around and fall down. As they enter the atmosphere they use aerodynamic surfaces to maneuver. I don't think they can be launched from a jet.

[IronLionZion]

29. Hypersonic weapons travel at between 5 and 25 times the speed of sound

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_weapon

Hypersonic weapons are missiles and projectiles which travel at between 5 and 25 times the speed of sound – about 1 to 5 miles per second (1.6 to 8 kilometres per second).[1]

Below such speeds, weapons would be characterized as subsonic or supersonic, while above such speeds, the molecules of the atmosphere disassociate into a plasma which makes control and communication difficult. Directed-energy weapons such as lasers may operate at higher speeds but are considered a different class of weaponry.

There are currently three main types of hypersonic weapon:[1]

boost-glide missiles which descend through the atmosphere at high speeds after an initial launch phase – a hypersonic glide vehicle
aircraft and missiles which use air-breathing engines such as scramjets to reach high speeds
guns which fire hypervelocity projectiles. These may be developments of traditional artillery or novel technologies such as railguns.

[machoneman]

37. Accuracy is far more important than speed. Very expensive for sure and they have few I'm sure.

Sounds like desperation and the Ukes are not fooled. Russia must be running low on missiles (artillery is far cheaper per round) and that's why they asked for China's help....to acquire more missiles as they are running low.

[COL Mustard]

45. You wave it around too often

You might get it cut off!

[MineralMan]

5. That could also be an actual use test of the system.

It's difficult to test such weapons in real-world situations. Russia may have just conducted such a test on a hereto-untested system.

If so, I don't expect much use of it in Ukraine.

[reACTIONary]

22. I think you are correct...

... they have propagandized that the Kinzhal is operational, but I read that it is still under test and development. The same article claimed that this is a standard Russian practice. Can't remember where I read that.

[Eyeball_Kid]

46. Shouldn't there be a few questions?

Like, if the missile is launched from a jet, what is its range, and does it carry enough fuel to meet expectations? How can the fuel it has boost the speed so much? How can the missile communicate with air or ground units to maintain its flight path at that speed, (air molecules get highly disturbed from speed that high and create all kinds of havoc). At such a high speed, locking in on a target has to be a monumental high tech task. Even a small error can send the missile way off target with no ability to correct course. Some speculation exists that the hypersonic speed is gained upon re-entry, or on the downward trajectory.

With all of Putin's bluster about a hypersonic missile, we do notice that the US is quiet about it, and about its ability to deal with a missile with those properties. Why is that? We can variously suspect that the US has some secret weapons of its own and is keeping mum about them. Why engage in a boasting war?

BTW, there are alternate explanations about what the missile actually struck. Russia says that it hit an underground armory, but other sources claim that the missile struck farm equipment above ground. It will take a while to unravel the true story.

[MineralMan]

47. Yes, of course, but we on DU will not get the answers.

No doubt that others will.

[Sancho]

6. They are running out of cruise missiles...

[llashram]

9. this is

a dangerous escalation. Ukrainians killed by this weapon didn't even hear it killing them. No time to take cover.

[AntiFascist]

10. They just covered this on MSNBC...

it is thought that Russia may only have as little as 2 or 3 of these, so it is more of a publicity stunt. I guess we'll see.

[reACTIONary]

24. I read somewhere....

...... they have propagandized that the Kinzhal is operational, but that it is still under test and development. The same article claimed that this is a standard Russian practice. Can't remember where I read that.

[AntiFascist]

27. See this update...

I'm sure it needs to be validated, but here it is:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44840/we-have-questions-about-russias-claimed-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile-use-in-ukraine

This also answers our question as to the UAV's presence above the target area. The anti-air threat is nothing in Ukraine's east as it is in the west. This also calls into question, even more, why a missile of Kinzhal's nature would be used on a target close to Russian territory and on what appears to be a farm's barn or large chicken coup.

With all this in mind, it is very unlikely we are seeing a Kinzhal missile being used in the video. Whether or not one was used at all, we cannot answer that. Maybe there was another target somewhere, but this was not it.

[reACTIONary]

28. Thanks! nt

[llashram]

41. thank you

like his buddy, using a lie to terrorize some people.

[L. Coyote]

11. Zelenskyy addressing citizens of Switzerland today:

Link to tweet

[Lovie777]

12. Damn . ..

He's got a hell of a writing team.

[Evolve Dammit]

13. Time will tell how many they have or how depleted they are. Hope it's the latter. NK also has tested

[reACTIONary]

25. Not NK, the PRC...

... China lunched one that few around the world and then impacted on Chinese territory. NK is still trying to get a reliable ICBM. Their latest malfunctioned on launch.

[Evolve Dammit]

44. I was mistaken then. So much going on. I have battle fatigue and haven't been in battle (yet).....

[reACTIONary]

50. The fog of war. 😉

[Alien Life Form]

14. Let someone attack the Russian homeland.

They are not afraid of attacking in Ukraine and elsewhere.. Lets make them fearful of us for a change..

[AntiFascist]

15. It seems like Ukraine could use more jets covering the Black Sea at least...

since that is where the guided cruise and hypersonic missiles seem to be coming from.

[paleotn]

19. I'd rather that didn't happen. Russia never stopped fearing this......

Ohio class SSBN or "boomer". They're out there. Russia knows they're out there. Russia can't do a damn thing about them. Thus, MAD has kept the peace for 60 years. Lets keep it that way.

[paleotn]

16. Extremely doubtful.

The engineering for mach 5+ weapons is incredibly extreme. With extreme engineering comes extreme cost and all known systems of this type are still in development. It's doubtful Russia has the technology or money to have anything anywhere near deployable at this point. Even if they did, they'd be in very small numbers. Plus, why would they waste a system of such cost on Ukraine? It buys them nothing to waste what's really a strategic system in a conventional war on their border.

Me thinks someone is getting their run of the mill ballistic systems confused with something that's not yet ready for prime time. The following video is a gives a good run down on what's involved with hypersonic weapons. It's a few years old, but the engineering is so insane with hypersonics, it's still a good reference for today. Russian claims to have deployed such weapons are most likely typical Kremlin bullshit.

[AntiFascist]

17. as are North Korean claims, perhaps n/t

[reACTIONary]

26. And the article said it was launched from a fighter jet...

... My understanding is that hypersonic are rentry vehicles. They are boosted to near space, then reenter the atmosphere. They then use aerodynamic surfaces to maneuver.

[AntiFascist]

30. See this article...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/north-america-vulnerable-to-russian-and-chinese-hypersonic-weapons-norad-commander-1.5825995

This U.S. government graphic shows how hypersonic glide vehicles and hypersonic cruise missiles differ from conventional ballistic missiles. (U.S. Government Accountability Office)

[reACTIONary]

32. Thanks! That clarifies the terminology...

... I was thinking about hypersonic glide vehicles, not hypersonic cruise missiles.

hypersonic glide vehicles, which reach orbit with a conventional booster before gliding towards a target

The glide vehicles, also called reentry vehicles, can fly at greater than Mach 25. That can't be done launched from a jet.

The Warzone article was also informative.

[AntiFascist]

18. then there's this...

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44840/we-have-questions-about-russias-claimed-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile-use-in-ukraine

UPDATE: 5:20 PM EST—

We can now say for certain that the strike depicted happened nowhere near the western part of the country and not at some major military weapons storage area. It happened at a heavily bombarded rural area in the far eastern area of Ukraine:

[trof]

21. Stupid

An ICBM, given the distance, would work as well.
This is some kind of bravado.
"WORLD, JUST LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO!".

[AntiFascist]

23. and we do test our Minutemen missiles regularly n/t

[EX500rider]

40. Except twice as fast..13,000-18,000 mph nt

[Zorro]

31. Thanks for the FISINT

[NullTuples]

33. Russia said they used one. Has this actually been confirmed independently?

Not that I don't trust Putin or anything. Oh, wait - that's right. I don't.

[AntiFascist]

35. Good question...I'd like to see actual confirmation n/t

[NullTuples]

42. The media is running with it despite knowing Putin loves propaganda

It's...disheartening, knowing they're just repeating whatever he says without fact checking first.

[AntiFascist]

43. According to Bloomberg, Ukraine did NOT confirm the attack...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-19/ukraine-update-russia-says-used-kinzhal-missile-in-strike

[Eyeball_Kid]

48. It's possible that the US doesn't want to say that it WASN'T a hypersonic missile..

because they may give away their ability to detect and track Russian missiles. Russia can reasonably deduce the US' capability by analyzing the US published data, no matter how "insignificant", on a missile flight path, trajectory, speed, etc. I'm guessing that the US will give nothing away.

[AntiFascist]

49. I would be very surprised if satellites aren't focused on Ukraine at the moment n/t

[LetMyPeopleVote]

36. The hypersonic missile Putin launched? It hit a farm, not a weapons depot.

Link to tweet

[msfiddlestix]

38. This response makes me breath easier... ty /nt