Police: Tulsa suspect targeted surgeon he blamed for pain

[demmiblue]

Source: AP

A man who blamed his surgeon for ongoing pain after a recent back surgery bought an AR-style rifle hours before opening fire at a Tulsa medical office, killing the surgeon and three other people before fatally shooting himself, police said Thursday.

Tulsa Police Chief Wendell Franklin says the gunman had recently undergone back surgery and had called a clinic repeatedly complaining of pain.

Franklin says the doctor who performed the surgery, Dr. Preston Phillips, was killed Wednesday, along with another doctor, a receptionist and a patient.

“We also have a letter on the suspect, which made it clear that he came in with the intent to kill Dr. Phillips and anyone who got in his way,” Franklin said. “He blamed Dr. Phillips for the ongoing pain following the surgery.”

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/tulsa-oklahoma-texas-school-shootings-61bba0dcf04e2f8dbc34ec4ee7fd02b0

[Warpy]

1. Pity we live in a world where they couldn't treat his pain

The DEA would rather we pick up a GUN, I guess. GUNS are good. Drugs are bad.

[cstanleytech]

15. DEA has nothing to do with the problem with out of control gun violence.

Now the GOP completely owns it as they imo are the #1 top enabler.

[Warpy]

19. It has a fucking lot to do with this man's pain and we all know it.

If he had his pain treated properly, perhaps he and 3 other people would be alive today.

He had been screaming for help. He couldn't get any.

Maybe he mistakenly thought through the haze of pain that this would get the god damned drug warriors to back off from health care. That's not going to happen any time soon.

People in serious pain are not the enemy of civilization if they are treated properly. Rare ones might become so like this guy, guns being a hell of a lot easier to access than proper medical treatment.

[inthewind21]

22. So

We have gone from mental illness to I had back surgery and I had pain and that is what drove me to murder. Got it.

[Warpy]

23. Ever notice how many posts that begin with "so" turn out to be strawmen?

Funny how that works.

I guess nuance doesn't work for everyone.

[AZProgressive]

29. Mental illness does not drive people to murder

A tiny percentage of gun violence is committed by the mentally ill. In fact they are more likely to be victims of violence than the general population.

The problem is the easy access to guns.

[cstanleytech]

27. "He had been screaming for help. He couldn't get any." Hey I get it completely, I really do.

I had 3 of my cervical discs replaced and I am still dealing with a massive amount of pain at times but while the DEA and FDA both are involved in medical aspect they do not regulate guns.
So ya, the guy should not have had to suffer but neither should he have been able to gun down the doctor and those other people in cold blooded murder and he might not have been able to do that had so many politicians (mostly Republican) not been the NRAs lapdogs.

[Major Nikon]

28. I don't know that and I think very few people are in a position to know it

It’s very possible this could be the case, but it’s also very possible he was in no pain at all and took extreme measures when he could no longer feed his addiction. Either way it’s a failure of US drug policy, but countless people are in both of those situations and somehow manage not to murder innocent people. The only thing that seems fairly certain is he was well aware his actions were wrong and did it anyway. I just don’t see any scenario where this guy wasn’t a complete shitstain on society and doesn’t deserve 100% of the blame for his evil actions.

[IggleDuer]

2. He was asking for more pain meds following surgery.

Most States maintain a database of all narcotic prescriptions- who prescribed them and which pharmacy filled them. If gun dealers are required to check this database, as medical providers do, they would be obligated to refuse a sale, some massacres could be prevented. It’s no perfect, but it could help.

[mopinko]

4. yeah, no.

it should be done, but hippa is a good law.
tho docs could ask about guns and foid cards.

[murielm99]

11. HIPAA

can be misused. We have been trying to get help for my mother, who is 93, mentally ill and possibly descending into dementia.

Adult protective services has blocked us at every turn with HIPAA. No lawyer will take the case. We have been told to let the state handle it. We will.

[mopinko]

13. ugh.

i fought this battle when my bp daughter was 15. i couldnt get them to tell me what her blood med levels were until i made a stink in their waiting room. was going out of town w the hubs, and leaving her w a friend. wasnt leaving til i knew she was medicated.

[murielm99]

14. We are washing our hands of it.

This is in a small rural county in Wisconsin. There is an old boy network there, although it does include old girls. They know each other and have unspoken understandings. We are the civilian outsiders. I live in a rural area too, so I know how it can work. They are not necessarily unprofessional, but they are insular.

If my mother is moved to a psych ward, a nursing home or hospital, or if she dies, her pastor will tell me. This is based on advice and family consensus. We are her heirs, and I am executor of her estate. She is 93.

[mopinko]

16. ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

understand.

[Ms. Toad]

12. None of the articles I have read indicate he was seeking pain meds.

They all indicate he was "complaining of ongoing pain and wanting additional treatment."

There are treatments for pain other than narcotic prescriptions.

As to your specific suggestion, aside from the obvious violation of privacy issues, there are legitimate and responsible uses of opiods. I've been prescribed opiods after each of the last several surgeries I've had. I never use all of any given prescription (so prescription records would suggest I take at least twice as much as I actually take).

AND - I also hoard the remnants of all prescriptions because my spouse has frequent kidney stones. The oppressive laws dealing with opioids make it extremely difficult for people who have legitimate need for opoids. Because all opiods require an in-person visit, when kidney stones hit we have a choice: live in pain until the doctor can see her (typically 2 weeks out), waste hours, medical resources, and $$ by going to the emergency room simply to obtain a prescription for opiods, or illegally transfer opioids from my stash to her.

The issues here are (1) gun control and (2) providing adequate treatment for pain. Addressing those issues can be done without further stigmatizing or adding barriers for those of us who have legitimate need for opioid pain relief.

[chowder66]

3. Maybe they will enact a waiting period now?

[obamanut2012]

5. DR. Phillips was also black

I have no idea if that played any part in this, but a black professional being murdered in Tulsa... ugh.

[Bonx]

7. The shooter Michael Louis is also black

[exboyfil]

6. I know about opiod abuse

but both my dad who died from cancer, and my mom who has an inoperable spine stenosis have been in unnecessary pain. I mean who the f__k really cares if a 65 year old man with terminal cancer takes too many pain pills or an 78 year old woman whose every movement brings pain? Let them get addicted if it stops the pain.

In Florida they almost kicked my mom off her pain pills because she used THC supplement that my aunt gave her. She probably will be dead in the next three years from her COPD if the spine stenosis pain doesn't drive her to check out even earlier.

[imavoter]

10. I've had neck surgery...considered back surgery fyi...

I would wonder how long between
surgery and shooting.
I was in some serious pain afterwords
and another two weeks of narcotics would have
relived my suffering.
Luckily I had muscle relaxers to fill
in the gaps. Sometimes I wish the
doctors could actually feel the patient's
pain.

[Delphinus]

30. I hear you.

I think some doctors need to know what it feels like for the patient - every person processes pain differently and what works for one does not always work for the other.

[BigmanPigman]

24. Same thing happens to many, many people.

Seniors who are in severe, ongoing pain can't get meds due to opiate abuse. Their attitude is, "Who the fuck cares if an 80 year old person is in pain, he is not going to get addicted" and that is their main goal now. What BS!!! This happened to my dad when he was 81. This country is ass backwards in so many ways.

[Delphinus]

31. Amen!

When you are in that much pain, and a senior, you're not going to be doing a job that would put people in peril most likely. I do wish they could give them what they need. My mom had her meds cut for ongoing back pain and scrimped way too much so she wouldn't run out.

[BigmanPigman]

32. It's plain cruel.

[LiberatedUSA]

8. This affects his other patients as well.

All those surgeries have to be postponed until another back surgeon can be scheduled. And all the people he could have helped in the years down the road. A rippling effect.

[melm00se]

9. If a doctor prescribes too many

Schedule II narcotics, they run the risk of losing their DEA license and, potentially, their medical license.

Also, do you really want to encourage additional piercings of doctor-patient privilege? Remember, that was one of the key underpinnings of Roe v. Wade.

[slightlv]

17. gods, I have a dog in this fight.

I have inoperable spinal stenosis. I have fibromyalgia. I'm 67 yrs old. And I live in KS, where I doubt MJ of any form will EVER be legal. You wouldn't believe the indignity I have to go through to get my pain meds. And, each monthly script comprises enough pills to last for two weeks... if I take them AS THEY ARE PRESCRIBED. Never mind that, as they are prescribed doesn't begin to touch the pain levels I hit each day. But that's all the government and the insurance will agree to give me "for my own good." Never mind what my doctor of 30 years and I think are right.

You want to know what dangerous addiction is? It'll take me 10 years of titration to get off the Effexor I take for Anxiety/Depression without killing myself first. Now THAT's some heavy duty addiction. There are a hell of a lot of the drugs we use every day that have side effects that could kill us if we stop taking them immediately... or even just "quickly." But no one ever talks about those drugs. They only talk about the effects of the "opioids." But like I said, it's a hot button issue with me. I have a dog in this fight. Which is not to say I excuse what this guy did. Or even that I understand WHY he did it. But I understand the pressure that pushed him. I could never kill, no matter what. And I've felt some pretty bad pain. I've felt pain and depression about that pain that's had me pooled on the floor in a puddle crying my eyes out which someone would just shoot ME to put me out of my misery. But I could never shoot anyone else. I could never kill anything - period. So, even tho I have a dog in this fight, and I understand the desperation of pain, I can't understand the next step he took because it's a step too far for me to take.

[RussBLib]

18. wow, an actual motive

I'm sure most here would agree that the shooter went "too far", but intense pain is a killer.

It says a lot about this country that we recoil in horror when someone gets opioids. Unrelenting pain has ended many lives. As another poster says, why should anyone care if a 67 or 77-yr old needs more options for pain relief, just so they can function somewhat normally? To deny them is unnecessary cruelness.

A lot of the opioid overdoses in this country can be traced back to a doctor cutting off a patients opioid supply because the govt or the insurance company insists. Then they turn to black market pain killers like heroin or fentanyl, and boom! Overdose.

Where is the mercy?

[Aristus]

20. There's always more to the situation that the layman knowns, or bothers to try understanding.

Opioid medications can cause respiratory depression, which makes prescribing them for patients with COPD and other obstructive lung conditions tricky. Remember, first we medical providers must do no harm.

Also, opioids can cause severe constipation. Any patient with a gastrointestinal issue that puts them at risk for bowel perforation is going to have a hard time with opioids.

And despite what's being said above, patients in hospice, or are otherwise dying of cancer or some other terminal illness are rarely denied comfort treatment in the form of opioids. The provider would face a huge lawsuit for failing to make a dying patient comfortable.

That's the stress that comes with being a medical provider: when we fix patients' problems, we're angels. When we tell patients why we can't medically, ethically give them what they want, we're assholes.

[RussBLib]

21. that's a tough spot

especially with all the loony conspiracy theories out there these days. I feel for ya. I was on a path towards becoming a psychotherapist until I realized I didn't like hearing people whine about small stuff. Good thing I changed careers!

And I was on opioids for about 13 years due to pinched nerves in both feet, before everybody went nuts and drastically reduced the amount of opioids that could be prescribed. Good thing I was in the process of weaning myself off of them and didnt require anything stronger. Removal of the nerves eliminated the worst stabbing pains, but the opioids helped me function when I needed them most.

[Ziggysmom]

25. Article states the shooter had his back surgery May 19th. Only a little over 2 weeks ago.

Most certainly you're going to have pain the first few weeks after most major surgery. This guy must have had other major issues going on. Of course there was no waiting period or restrictions of any kind impeding his purchase of the weapons.........