Justice Dept. expands Jan. 6 probe with fresh subpoenas
Last edited Wed Jun 22, 2022, 07:07 PM - Edit history (1)
Source: Washington Post
The Justice Departments investigation of the Jan. 6 attack ratcheted up Wednesday as federal agents dropped subpoenas on people in at least two states, in what appeared to be a widening probe of how political activists supporting President Donald Trump tried to use invalid electors to thwart Joe Bidens 2020 electoral victory. FBI officials confirmed to The Washington Post that agents conducted court authorized law enforcement activity Wednesday morning at two locations one the address of Brad Carver, a Georgia lawyer who allegedly signed a document claiming to be a Trump elector, and another the Virginia home of Thomas Lane, who worked on the Trump campaigns efforts in Arizona and New Mexico.
The FBI officials did not identify the people associated with those addresses, but public records list each of the locations as the home addresses of the men. The precise nature of the information being sought by the Justice Department wasnt immediately clear; however, Arizona and Georgia officials testified Tuesday to a House panel probing the Jan. 6 attacks about attempts by Trump and his inner circle of advisers to try to reverse Bidens electoral college victories in those states.
Officials have previously said that the Justice Department and FBI were examining the issue of false electors, who Trump and others hoped might be approved by state legislators in a last-ditch bid to keep Trump in the White House. Until now, however, those investigative efforts seemed to primarily involve talking to people in Republican circles who knew of the scheme and objected; the subpoenas issued Wednesday suggest the Justice Department is now moving to question at least some of those who allegedly agreed to pursue the effort.
FBI agents delivered a subpoena to Lane Wednesday morning at his home in Virginia, according to a person who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. After leaving the Trump campaign, Lane has worked for the Republican National Committees election efforts in Virginia, this person said. Public records list an address for Lane in south Arlington, and an FBI spokeswoman confirmed agents conducted court-authorized law enforcement activity at that address this morning. Phone messages left for Lane were not immediately returned. Carver, the Georgia lawyer, also did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment.
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/06/22/jan6-fbi-electors-subpoenas/
NYT just had a breaking mentioning a 3rd person and these subpoenas are apparently from a grand jury -
By Alan Feuer and Maggie Haberman
June 22, 2022, 6:31 p.m. ET
The Justice Department stepped up its criminal investigation of a plan by Donald J. Trump and his allies to create so-called fake slates of electors in a bid to keep Mr. Trump in power during the 2020 election, as federal agents delivered grand jury subpoenas on Wednesday to at least three people connected to the plan. One of those who received a subpoena, according to two people familiar with the matter, was Brad Carver, a lawyer and official of the Georgia Republican Party who claimed to be one of Mr. Trumps electors in the state, which was won by Joseph R. Biden Jr.
Another subpoena recipient was Thomas Lane, an official who worked on behalf of Mr. Trumps campaign in Arizona and New Mexico, the people said. A third person, Sean Flynn, a Trump campaign aide in Michigan, also got a subpoena, according to the people familiar with the matter. The issuance of new subpoenas was first reported by The Washington Post. None of the three men could be reached for comment about the subpoenas. The fake elector plan is the focus of one of two known prongs of the Justice Departments broad grand jury investigation of Mr. Trumps multiple and interlocking attempts to subvert the election.
The other has focused on a wide cast of political organizers, White House aides and members of Congress connected in various ways to Mr. Trumps incendiary speech near the White House that directly preceded the storming of the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. This latest round of activity in the Justice Departments inquiry came amid the House select committees high-profile hearings into Mr. Trumps efforts to reverse the outcome of the election. It also comes less than a month after an earlier round of grand jury subpoenas that revealed prosecutors have been seeking information on the role that a group of pro-Trump lawyers played in the fake elector effort.
Those lawyers included Rudolph W. Giuliani, John Eastman, Boris Epshteyn, Jenna Ellis, Kenneth Chesebro, James Troupis and Justin Clark. The subpoenas, issued by a grand jury sitting in Washington, have also sought records and information about other pro-Trump figures like Bernard B. Kerik, the former New York City police commissioner and a longtime ally of Mr. Giuliani. Many of the lawyers named in the subpoenas were also mentioned on Tuesday at the House select committees public hearing exploring Mr. Trumps wide-ranging pressure campaign to persuade state officials to help him stay in office.
(snip)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/22/us/politics/justice-dept-jan-6-subpoenas.html
erronis
(15,170 posts)I know he is experiencing a brain drain because of his dictatorship. Maybe all these repuglicons can move to Moskva (or Siberia) and accelerate brain drain.
But they'll be amply rewarded in cold, hard rubles. (Won't be able to own guns, tho.) Unless they agree to jump in a suicide tank ride towards UKR.
I bet they were promised a dacha near Sochi. A suite in trump's mosvka tower. Bet they are as stoopid as they come.
C Moon
(12,208 posts)MontanaMama
(23,294 posts)May they fall hard and fast.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,544 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,372 posts)see I earwormed people yesterday - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=1675442
But you got me today!
Tadpole Raisin
(972 posts)Will have to get on MeTV I guess. If not Flipper theyll have Petticoat Junction.
Come ride the little train that is rolling down the tracks to the junction
BumRushDaShow
(128,372 posts)or "Green Acres"...
(and no I won't add "Mr. Ed" because just the mention should be enough to trigger the vision )
rkleinberger
(155 posts)Tadpole Raisin
(972 posts)going into Marine Biology because of this show and my love for animals.
But this? Unforgivable. Im glad her trainer changed after her death. How could you look into her eyes as this was happening and not change?
Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #3)
rkleinberger This message was self-deleted by its author.
William769
(55,142 posts)The needle moves.
GoneOffShore
(17,336 posts)H2O Man
(73,506 posts)getagrip_already
(14,605 posts)Hopefully they are looking for something specific on higher ups.
But in reality every one of these bozos has has 18 months to burn evidence.
BumRushDaShow
(128,372 posts)These loons were so sure of the false reality of their psycho world, that they were not only continuing to promote it and litigate it, but some are still at it implementing it.
soldierant
(6,785 posts)I don't think the Archivesaccepted them, but they may still exist.
BumRushDaShow
(128,372 posts)NARA received them, logged them in, scanned them, and cataloged them, and even has a link (due to all the FOI requests) to a page specifically dedicated to them for viewing/downloading - https://www.archives.gov/foia/2020-presidential-election-unofficial-certificates
However since none of the Certificates were actually certified properly by the states that submitted them (i.e., they were fraudulent), they were characterized by NARA as "unofficial" and "not accepted" as an official "state action".
NARA even included scans of the envelopes they came in, for example from this copy (priority mail envelope shown on pg 16) - https://www.archives.gov/files/foia/az-sovereign-coa-amended-full-1.pdf (PDF)
soldierant
(6,785 posts)but I wasn't sure. Thanks. This is delicious.
BumRushDaShow
(128,372 posts)is to... drum roll... archive documents!
But yeah, in this case, the perps followed the requirements for who to send to and actually sent them to Congress and even to designated courts where the vote was held.
NARA had a nice brochure here that described what the state officials were supposed to do, how many copies of what, and who to send them to - https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/state-officials/presidential-election-brochure.pdf (PDF)
So for example from what I posted here - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16822880
(snip)
3. Mid-November through December 14, 2020
Sending Certificates of Ascertainment to NARA:
The Certificates of Ascertainment list the names of the electors
appointed and the number of votes cast for each person.The States prepares no less than SEVEN originals, which are
authenticated by the Governors signature and the State seal,
and TWO certified copies. Alternatively, NINE originals may be
prepared.
One original along with two certified copies (or three originals,
if nine were prepared) must be sent to the Archivist, David S.
Ferriero, c/o Office of the Federal Register (F).
The Governors must submit the Certificates of Ascertainment
as soon as practicable after their States certify election re-
sults.The remaining SIX original Certificates of Ascertainment will
be attached to the Certificates of Vote at the State meetings.
(snip)
Then it talks about "certificates of votes" done by the Electors and how many -
The electors record their votes on SIX Certificates of Vote, which are then paired with the SIX remaining original Certificates of Ascertainment.After signing the Certificates of Vote, the electors seal
and certify the electoral votes in packages containing a
paired original Certificate of Ascertainment and original
Certificate of Vote. They immediately distribute the
paired certificates as follows:One pair of original certificates is sent to the President
of the Senate (Michael R. Pence)Two pairs of original certificates are sent to the Archi-
vist, David S. Ferriero, c/o Office of the Federal Register
(F)
The Archivist holds one pair subject to the order of the
President of the United States Senate in case the elec-
toral votes fail to reach the Senate. The other pair is held
by the Office of the Federal Register for public inspection
for one year.Two pairs of certificates are sent by registered mail to
the Secretary of State of each State, who holds one pair
subject to the order of the President of the United States
Senate in case the electoral votes fail to reach the Sen-
ate.One pair of original certificates is sent to the Chief
Judge of the Federal District Court located where the
electors meet. It is held subject to the order of the Presi-
dent of the United States Senate or the Archivist of the
United States in case the electoral votes fail to reach the
Senate or the Archivist.
(snip)
As a retired fed, I know during my career, the agency had established, and regularly updated a "Records Schedule" where our work diaries, my lab worksheets, etc., were gathered up about once a quarter if not still actively being used, boxed, labeled, and transported to the local NARA warehouse here in Philly for "x" number of years of archival storage, depending on what the items were (some were destroyed after say 5 years, others were kept for 20 years and then destroyed, and other things were to be kept permanently).
Justice matters.
(6,915 posts)Methinks the FBI could be wanting to find signed documents to compare signatures.
BumRushDaShow
(128,372 posts)I remember the first place where I saw them uploaded and posted online was on the website of a group called "American Oversight" - https://www.americanoversight.org/american-oversight-obtains-seven-phony-certificates-of-pro-trump-electors
You can see NARA's FOI numbers watermarked on the copies that American Overisght received.
All of those fake "electors" were either sitting elected officials and/or were state RNC leaders/employees or in AZ's case, members of one of those idiotic "Sovereign Citizens" groups.
getagrip_already
(14,605 posts)They are looking for electronic devices. Evidence with a trail.
Having copies of the fraudulent certificates likely isn't what they are after.
In the oldie times, these raids were effective because communication was paper based. Even old phone bills could help build a network and timeline of communication (phone companies didn't keep line item bills for long).
But today, there isn't much the fbi can't grab out of the cloud. Raids are looking for something physical; guns, bombs, tools, and electronic devices which are offline.
That is what they could have disposed of, or at least relocated to a safe place.
Justice matters.
(6,915 posts)FRAUDULENT says it all. They have the names of the FRAUDSTERS.
They Broke The Law. Communications would (and will) be fine if they find them and they will find some or many and those republiQan fraudsters who destroyed evidence, which is another crime can be identified through those that didn't destroy them effectively. There are Tweets, tapes, and reports (they filmed themselves) everywhere online.
Sing, Q-rats! Sing!
Looks like a RICO procedure in the works.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,544 posts)Many of the fake slates videoed themselves committing fraud and then posted to social media.
Most of these folks dont have the funds for defending themselves against federal charges, and dont want to spend 10-20 years in prison, so I think its likely theyll cut a deal and tell all they know about who promoted and assisted with this scheme.
cloudboy07
(351 posts)LudwigPastorius
(9,095 posts)Put the screws to them and roll them up.
These people didnt just decide to do this on their own.
multigraincracker
(32,632 posts)hibbing
(10,094 posts)I'll never ever understand it. Is it really all about power or am I some kind of conspiracy theorist to think tfg has dirt on all of them.
Peace
TurboDem
(213 posts)I was just saying to my partner last night that I can't for the life of me understand where all this loyalty to trump is coming from. Even if an authoritarian government is your ultimate goal, come on, Donald Trump as your leader? You couldn't pick someone that isn't the laughing stock of the world?
LoisB
(7,173 posts)Justice matters.
(6,915 posts)They think he's the return of King David or some other BS like that!!
Oh, and they watch FUX NOISE every day since the mid-90's...
Botany
(70,442 posts)* "Thomas Lane, who worked on the Trump campaigns efforts in Arizona and New Mexico."
KS Toronado
(17,136 posts)efhmc
(14,721 posts)but my activities do not involve breaking the law.
Karadeniz
(22,461 posts)Tadpole Raisin
(972 posts)may in part depend on the lawyers they pick.
If they are foolish enough to hire extreme TFG lawyers they will be advised to stay quiet to their own detriment and guilty verdicts/prison will follow (I can hope).
If they hire lawyers who are really looking out for their interests these investigations could really expand as everyone starts to fess up and try to make deals.
Their retirement funds will be depleted either way. They should have not shown up like their colleagues who must have had someone at home putting their foot down on being a participant to this nonsense. Those people were very lucky!
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)James48
(4,426 posts)18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy
Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
Its a felony for each of the people signing.
Lock them up!
EndlessWire
(6,450 posts)won't testify without a legal subpoena. These guys may have a deal going. They are both attorneys. They should know better.
pfitz59
(10,296 posts)and that some are direct links to TFG.
ancianita
(35,926 posts)Those lawyers included Rudolph W. Giuliani, John Eastman, Boris Epshteyn, Jenna Ellis, Kenneth Chesebro, James Troupis and Justin Clark. The subpoenas, issued by a grand jury sitting in Washington, have also sought records and information about other pro-Trump figures like Bernard B. Kerik,
What a possible RICO choir. I hope they all lose their licenses and never work anywhere near politics again.