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Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:25 PM

Gun applicants in NY will have to list social media accounts

Source: Associated Press

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — As missed warning signs pile up in investigations of mass killings, New York state is rolling out a novel strategy to screen applicants for gun permits. People seeking to carry concealed handguns will be required to hand over lists of their social media accounts for a review of their “character and conduct.”

It’s an approach applauded by many Democrats and national gun control advocacy groups, but some experts have raised questions about how the law will be enforced and address free speech concerns.

Some of the local officials who will be tasked with reviewing the social media content also are asking whether they’ll have the resources and, in some cases, whether the law is even constitutional.

Sheriffs haven’t received additional money or staffing to handle a new application process, said Peter Kehoe, the executive director of the New York Sheriffs’ Association. The law, he asserted, infringes on Second Amendment rights, and while applicants must list their social media accounts, he doesn’t think local officials will necessarily look at them.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/technology-new-york-social-media-gun-politics-bd1fba804dfa2adb347c74bb6e52d2b0



I hate guns but can't see this holding up in any court.

32 replies, 2091 views

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gun applicants in NY will have to list social media accounts (Original post)
Polybius Jul 8 OP
calguy Jul 8 #1
ruet Jul 8 #14
Brainfodder Jul 10 #31
jimfields33 Jul 8 #2
PoliticAverse Jul 8 #6
jimfields33 Jul 8 #18
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 8 #20
jimfields33 Jul 8 #24
manicdem Jul 8 #27
mopinko Jul 10 #30
Calista241 Jul 8 #3
live love laugh Jul 8 #4
PoliticAverse Jul 8 #5
melm00se Jul 8 #7
Lil Liberal Laura Jul 8 #8
Polybius Jul 8 #9
appmanga Jul 8 #10
sl8 Jul 8 #11
Polybius Jul 8 #12
ruet Jul 8 #13
thatdemguy Jul 8 #15
ruet Jul 8 #16
sarisataka Jul 8 #19
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 8 #21
MarineCombatEngineer Jul 8 #23
Kaleva Jul 8 #17
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 8 #22
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 8 #25
NYC Liberal Jul 8 #26
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 9 #28
ripcord Jul 9 #29
radicalleft Jul 11 #32

Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:28 PM

1. Good idea but what's to stop them from not listing radical sites?

Can every site be searched to see whether or not every single applicant is or has ever been a registered user?
I doubt it.

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Response to calguy (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:32 PM

14. If You Can Instantaneously Think of A Method to Thwart This Law;...

it's probably NOT a good idea.

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Response to ruet (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 10, 2022, 03:41 PM

31. Not even that, how could they find this D.U. account with no real info attached other than via ISP?

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:31 PM

2. I can see this expanding to college admissions, jobs, loans, apartment rentals

Are we sure this is what we want?

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:47 PM

6. What's your Social Credit Score citizen? n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 04:46 PM

18. I heard something about that. I have no idea.

I guess it depends on who does the scoring. Lol.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:21 PM

20. You mean like this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216892140

Public universities in Florida will be required to survey both faculty and students on their political beliefs and viewpoints, with the institutions at risk of losing their funding if the responses are not satisfactory to the state's Republican-led legislature.

The unprecedented project, which was tucked into a law signed Tuesday by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, is part of a long-running, nationwide right-wing push to promote "intellectual diversity" on campuses — though worries over a lack of details on the survey's privacy protections, and questions over what the results may ultimately be used for, hover over the venture.

Based on the bill's language, survey responses will not necessarily be anonymous — sparking worries among many professors and other university staff that they may be targeted, held back in their careers or even fired for their beliefs.

According to the bill's sponsor, state Sen. Ray Rodrigues, faculty will not be promoted or fired based on their responses, but, as The Tampa Bay Times reported Tuesday, the bill itself does not back up those claims.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 08:45 PM

24. Exactly.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 10:46 PM

27. China already does it

I'm afraid this will lead to your social score.

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Response to jimfields33 (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 10, 2022, 07:37 AM

30. that already happens.

 

i lost a tenant cuz i had a rant on my fb page about grief i was getting from neighbors. it was the fact that i illustrated the post w a pic of the goddess kali that made it go south. lol.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:32 PM

3. Every kid i know has like 12 Snapchat accounts, and 5 different Tik Tok and Instagram accounts.

that's going to be crazy hard to monitor.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:43 PM

4. They can start different accounts any time.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:45 PM

5. I knew New York would find a way to limit permits to the rich, powerful and celebrities again. n/t

Last edited Fri Jul 8, 2022, 02:37 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 01:51 PM

7. "character and conduct"

Depending upon where in NY:

White = obviously someone of good character and conduct.
Brown = not possible to be someone of good character and conduct.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 02:00 PM

8. TYRANNY!!!!!

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:08 PM

9. What if you don't have a social media account?

Then no gun for you?

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:13 PM

10. Likely unconstitutional.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:17 PM

11. From the legislation:

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s51001
PDF of bill text: https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/S51001

[...]

the applicant
8 shall meet in person with the licensing officer for an interview and
9 shall, in addition to any other information or forms required by the
10 license application submit to the licensing officer the following infor-
11 mation: (i) names and contact information for the applicant's
12 current spouse, or domestic partner, any other adults residing in the
13 applicant's home, including any adult children of the applicant, and
14 whether or not there are minors residing, full time or part time, in the
15 applicant's home; (ii) names and contact information of no less than
16 four character references who can attest to the applicant's good
17 moral character and that such applicant has not engaged in any acts, or
18 made any statements that suggest they are likely to engage in conduct
19 that would result in harm to themselves or others; (iii) certification
20 of completion of the training required in subdivision nineteen of this
21 section; (iv) a list of former and current social media accounts of
22 the applicant from the past three years to confirm the information
23 regarding the applicants character and conduct as required in subpara-
24 graph (ii) of this paragraph; and (v) such other information required by
25 the licensing officer that is reasonably necessary and related to the
26 review of the licensing application.

[...]

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Response to sl8 (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:25 PM

12. Insane that it passed 43-20

I understand wanting to do something, but I wouldn't vote for anything that I thought was unconstitutional, even if I supported it.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:26 PM

13. Smacks of Desperation. -NT-

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:33 PM

15. If you dont list them accurately and they find out

They deny the application, and someone floated the idea that it could be perjury like lying on the form that has to be filled out to buy a gun.

I think they should have to hand over the passwords, so they can look at things like messages.

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Response to thatdemguy (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:37 PM

16. "I think they should have to hand over the passwords, so they can look at things like messages."

Wow, Xi Jinping would absolutely love you. ...anything else you might want to give your rights for?

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Response to thatdemguy (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 05:13 PM

19. If you have nothing to hide... right?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:28 PM

21. "We'll only violate the civil rights of the bad guys, right?"

IIRC, Enemy of the State - Carla Dean, Esq.


Maybe they can just ask the NSA.

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Response to thatdemguy (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:30 PM

23. Wow!!!

Authoritarian much?
What other civil rights would you like to violate?



Sure you're on the right website?

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 03:44 PM

17. How many mass shooters need a concealed gun permit in order to carry out their plan?

Zero?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 07:30 PM

22. It doesn't have to makes sense, it's just a law.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 09:20 PM

25. I just want to point out...

...the SF-86 "QUESTIONNAIRE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY POSITIONS" does not ask for user names or passwords or any other information on any social media account. It does say this:
"I Understand that, for these purposes, publicly available social media information includes any electronic social media information that has been published or broadcast for public consumption, is available on request to the public, is accessible on-line to the public, is available to the public by subscription or purchase, or is otherwise lawfully accessible to the public. I further understand that this authorization does not require me to provide passwords; log into a private account; or take any action that would disclose non-publicly available social media information."

So the information that New York State wants is beyond what DoD/DIS wants in order to process someone for a secret clearance.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #25)

Fri Jul 8, 2022, 09:50 PM

26. The bill doesn't require anyone to provide passwords.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #26)

Sat Jul 9, 2022, 09:49 AM

28. Agreed. I understand that.

To be concise and completely clear, the NYS law requires an applicant to identify their social media accounts. The DoD/DIS application does not. I'm certain that more relevant and in depth information is examined for TS/SSBI than for a standard secret clearance.

My points regarding the NYS law are:
- the demand for this info seems more like hyperbole than anything
- that section probably won't make it past the courts
- it really seems like overreach (IMO Constitutionally offensive)

All of the 56 US states and territories participate with the NICS program. IMO, jurisdictions doing the most thorough job are those with full Point-Of-Contact status. These 13 states maintain an agency which runs state and local checks and contacts the federal database then reports to the FFL. These are: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon,
Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Utah, and Virginia. The NICS system is used for firearm purchases. There are 27 "shall issue" states including Nevada, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, and Virginia. [ https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics-participation-map.pdf ]

IMNSHO New York State and some others want to remain as "may issue" states because a possible perception is that the government somehow maintains more CONTROL. In my not sorry if it's offensive opinion, that entire mindset is a huge lie. The only real control is self-control. School shooters and drive-by gang killers won't be lining up for a CCW in any state. The whole term "gun-control" is a lie. It conveys or at the very least implies to the public that some level of real control is possible.

A CCW allows someone who has fulfilled state determined requirements including a BGC, education and training to have a gun for self-defense away from his residence.

One poster has identified (admitted) that there are at least 575 cases of a defensive gun use by civilians. Other sources put the actual number somewhere between tens of thousands to maybe a million. Many pro-control folks have expressed the sentiment that if a law "saves only one life" it's a good thing.

About half of the US states have no license or permit requirement at all for carry in public meaning that, if you own a gun, are a resident and have a pulse, you can carry. Vermont has been such a state for over 200 years.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2022, 09:59 AM

29. New York is going to screw us over

SCOTUS voided the show cause part of concealed carry laws because it was subjective, so now New York is going to add the different subjective requirement of character and conduct that will get another gun case in front of this Court. Who could have possibly thought this was a good idea to give them another chance to remove more restrictions on guns for something that will without a doubt be struck down?

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Response to ripcord (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 11, 2022, 10:39 AM

32. That's exactly what will happen.

This SC will simply say screw it and usher in Constitutional Carry across the land!

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