DOJ can resume criminal probe of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago, appeals court says
Source: CNN
CNN A federal appeals court is allowing the Justice Department to continue looking at documents marked as classified that were seized from former President Donald Trumps Mar-a-Lago home and resort. The emergency intervention upends a trial judges order over those documents that blocked federal investigators work on the documents, and is a strong rebuke of the Trump teams attempt to suggest without evidence that materials were somehow declassified.
A special masters review of that subset of about 100 records, which wouldve allowed Trumps legal team to see them, is now partially stopped. The special master, Judge Raymond Dearie, is able to continue his work reviewing the rest of the material seized from Mar-a-Lago, to make sure records belonging to Trump or that he may be able to claim are confidential arent used by investigators. It is self-evident that the public has a strong interest in ensuring that the storage of the classified records did not result in exceptionally grave damage to the national security, the three-judge panel from the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals stated.
Ascertaining that necessarily involves reviewing the documents, determining who had access to them and when, and deciding which (if any) sources or methods are compromised. Throughout the litigation, Trumps lawyers have raised vague questions about whether the materials are in fact classified. But they have not straightforwardly asserted in court that the former President declassified them, even as Trump himself has claimed outside of court that he did.
Court rebukes Trump on declassified claims
Wednesday night, the appeals court panel called Trumps legal team out. Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President, the court wrote. But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. And before the special master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents.
Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/appeals-court-mar-a-lago-criminal-classified-documents/index.html
Article being updated.
Previous update -
A special master's review of that subset of about 100 records, which would've allowed Trump's legal team to see them, is now partially stopped. The special master, Judge Raymond Dearie, is able to continue his work reviewing the rest of the material seized from Mar-a-Lago, to make sure records belonging to Trump or that he may be able to claim are confidential aren't used by investigators.
"It is self-evident that the public has a strong interest in ensuring that the storage of the classified records did not result in 'exceptionally grave damage to the national security,'" the three-judge panel from the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals stated. "Ascertaining that necessarily involves reviewing the documents, determining who had access to them and when, and deciding which (if any) sources or methods are compromised."
This story is breaking and will be updated.
Original article -
The emergency intervention upends a trial judge's order over those documents that blocked federal investigators' work on the documents.
This story is breaking and will be updated.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)This is very good!
COL Mustard
(8,223 posts)I bet they're having an absolute cow complaining about Judge Dearie. But I won't go over there and look.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)COL Mustard
(8,223 posts)They've been unhinged since before the election, and I'm sure it's gotten worse and worse.
Brother Buzz
(39,900 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,869 posts)Link to tweet
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/appeals-court-mar-a-lago-criminal-classified-documents/index.html
The emergency intervention upends a trial judge's order over those documents that blocked federal investigators' work on the documents.
This story is breaking and will be updated.
Here is a link to the opinion
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-625b-da48-a3e3-e2ff83050000
Cha
(319,080 posts)skylucy
(4,024 posts)wcmagumba
(6,179 posts)Lasher
(29,577 posts)This from Politico:
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/21/donald-trump-special-master-00058176
3Hotdogs
(15,368 posts)My penthouse for a 55 gallon drum of ketchup !
Cha
(319,080 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(23,240 posts)
3Hotdogs
(15,368 posts)not getting paid.
Traildogbob
(13,018 posts)This made my day. Jr gonna go through some coke tonight. Who gonna clean up the ketchup at Mardi Lardo tonight. Stroke you fat orange Jesus. Stroke until Melania has to wipe your ass until you die. Of course we know it will be Jr and Eric wiping the ass. After James is done, ya aint gonna have any money to pay for ass wiping. All hell rain down on the whole damn family. And dont leave out The Kushners. Let the witch hunts continue. Gonna get you damn witches. (No disrespect to good witches) just the criminal ones the right keep whining about.
prodigitalson
(3,193 posts)central scrutinizer
(12,654 posts)0 for 60 in the election fraud suits. Several more recent losses. Many of his henchmen going down. Even the victory of getting Loose Cannon to appoint the special master turned out badly. Of course, getting away with his con for fifty plus years is on the plus side of his ledger.
SheltieLover
(80,481 posts)onetexan
(13,913 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,869 posts)This makes me smile. Judge Cannon's opinion was dreck and the briefs filed by TFG and the Texas AG were so bad that these filings were funny
Link to tweet
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/21/donald-trump-special-master-00058176
The panel ruled that Cannon erred when she prevented federal prosecutors from using the 100 documents marked as classified recovered from Trumps estate as part of a criminal inquiry.
[Trump] has not even attempted to show that he has a need to know the information contained in the classified documents, the panel ruled in a 29-page decision. Nor has he established that the current administration has waived that requirement for these documents.
Two of the three judges on the panel, Andrew Brasher and Britt Grant, were appointed to the court by Trump. The third, Robin Rosenbaum, was appointed by President Barack Obama. In the unanimous decision, the judges declared it self-evident that the public interest favored allowing the Justice Department to determine whether any of the records were improperly disclosed, risking national security damage.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Open and shut.
Lasher
(29,577 posts)Nobody likes to suffer such public humiliation. Maybe Cannon will learn from this.
RedSpartan
(1,766 posts)made up the three judge panel.
Makes the decision all the more sweet.
Corgigal
(9,298 posts)plus a happy tune. Stomp a foot.
mcar
(46,058 posts)Ms. Toad
(38,642 posts)padah513
(2,710 posts)I expect him to give a rant on his platform tonight the likes of which the world has never seen!!!
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)Aghast
(12 posts)Eat sh*t and die, Cannon!
calimary
(90,021 posts)One of my best friends just called me to share "A Moment of Gloat!
I've had to comfort myself for several years with this schmuck who keeps getting away with everything - that "nothing lasts forever!" And those three words have been my mantra - that I've repeated to myself to help keep the faith! "Seriously, CAN this last forever?" And she's been growling about the same thing. Well, we had a high-five moment on the phone just now.
MOST satisfying!
More, please!!!
Ms. Toad
(38,642 posts)calimary
(90,021 posts)I hope they work fast, and see everything they need to see before the schmucks appeal and try to get it stopped.
Tommymac
(7,334 posts)Jarqui
(10,909 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,869 posts)I love good legal draftmanship and this opinion is well done. The opinion in effect rebukes Judge Loose Cannon and shows that she does not understand the law.
Here is a link to the opinion. https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-625b-da48-a3e3-e2ff83050000
The three-judge panel destroys some Judge Loose Cannon's claims. For example, the court held that TFG has no right to the 100 secret classified document. These documents are owned by the Federal government and not TFG
or for, or . . . under the control of the United States Government.
Id. § 1.1. And they include information the unauthorized disclosure [of which] could reasonably be expected to cause identifiable
or describable damage to the national security. Id. § 1.4. For this
reason, a person may have access to classified information only if,
among other requirements, he has a need-to-know the information. Id. § 4.1(a)(3). This requirement pertains equally to former Presidents, unless the current administration, in its discretion,
chooses to waive that requirement. Id. § 4.4(3).
The declassification argument is a red herring in that declassification has no effect on who owns these documents
that any of these records were declassified. And before the special
master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents. See Doc. No. 97 at 23., Sept. 19,
2022, letter from James M. Trusty, et al., to Special Master Raymond J. Dearie, at 23. In any event, at least for these purposes,
the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying
an official document would not change its content or render it personal. So even if we assumed that Plaintiff did declassify some or
all of the documents, that would not explain why he has a personal
interest in them.
This factorthe Plaintiffs personal interest (or lack thereof)
in the documentsalso weighs against exercising jurisdiction.
The panel rejects Loose Cannon's claim that TFG is special and this opinion treats TFG the same as ordinary citizen.
court is the threat of future prosecution and the serious, often indelible stigma associated therewith. Doc. No. 64 at 10. No doubt
the threat of prosecution can weigh heavily on the mind of someone under investigation. But without diminishing the seriousness
of that burden, if the mere threat of prosecution were allowed to
constitute irreparable harm . . . every potential defendant could
point to the same harm and invoke the equitable powers of the district court. United States v. Search of Law Office, Residence, and
Storage Unit Alan Brown, 341 F.3d 404, 415 (5th Cir. 2003) (quotation omitted). If this concern were sufficient to constitute irreparable harm, courts exercise of [their] equitable jurisdiction would
not be extraordinary, but instead quite ordinary. Id........
Second, we find unpersuasive Plaintiffs insistence that he
would be harmed by a criminal investigation. Bearing the discomfiture and cost of a prosecution for crime even by an innocent person is one of the painful obligations of citizenship. Cobbledick v.
United States, 309 U.S. 323, 325 (1940)
I had fun geeking out are reading this opinion.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)constitute irreparable harm . . . every potential defendant could
point to the same harm and invoke the equitable powers of the district court.
has basically been the argument of every legal pundit, along with the quip about every defendant also demanding a "Special Master" for their cases!
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,869 posts)Other criminal defendant and criminal defense attorneys are wanting to ask for special masters. If TFG can get a special master, then every defendant is entitled to a special master. I saw that the Oath Keeper asshole asked for a special master and was denied this request.
Link to tweet
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/why-not-me-judges-credulous-mar-a-lago-ruling-leaves-some-attorneys-wanting-more
But Cannons ruling, if ever extended to anyone beyond Trump, would open up new opportunities for defense attorneys or those seeking to challenge executive branch classification decisions.
Lawyers representing clients in national security matters or defending them before white collar prosecutions would now, under Judge Cannons interpretation of the law, be able to sift through evidence that prosecutors gather even before the DOJ decides whether or not to file charges.
Its a massive advantage that, so far, has only ever really been accorded to Trump.
Every defendant would love to have a special master with a search warrant, as it would give you two bites at the apple with suppression of evidence, Harry Sandick, a former Manhattan federal prosecutor now in private practice, told TPM.,,,,,,
Moss also tweeted that my clients fight tooth and nail to properly handle litigation matters involving classified information, and the government (with approval from the courts) routinely hamstring us. Donald Trump hoards TS/SCI documents at his resort and he gets to challenge the records.
Cannons ruling, if applied more broadly, would both completely upend how the law around classifications works and raise bizarre separation of powers disputes.
I appreciate the impulse to say, you know what, Im not convinced that I should completely just blindly trust the executive branch on this, Kel McClanahan, executive director of National Security Counselors, told TPM. That is, in a vacuum, a reasonable impulse. I, myself, have that impulse all the time. And I argue for it, I litigate over it.
McClanahan pointed out that Cannon had based her decision on claims about classification that Trump himself had not made.
The Kel McClanahans of the world will not say that you can overcome national security deference whatever level it might be by vague, hypothetical, potential allegations made by an attorney, he added.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)as a retired fed, I know from experience that "government issue" is a thing!
Until fairly recently (I guess the past 20 or so years when places like Staples and Office Max were selling office supplies on GSA Schedule), even the Skillcraft ballpoint pens were classically customized like this -

My dad worked for the VA for 20 years (before it became the Department of Veterans Affairs, from the mid-50s to mid 70s) and I grew up seeing those pens.
dalton99a
(94,133 posts)MerryBlooms
(12,248 posts)Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)The court went on to say, In any event, at least for these purposes, the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying an official document would not change its content or render it personal.
In other words, Dearie, youre an idiot
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)vs Dearie!
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)Does that mean it does or does go into effect immediately?
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)Right now it is stayed but there is an option to go to the SCOTUS (but he doesn't think the SCOTUS would "reach down" and un-do the stay).
Lasher
(29,577 posts)If memory serves, DOJ appealed the overall Special Master decision, as well as a separate emergency intervention concerning just the classified documents. The overall appeal will take longer, you see.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)but some of the legal pundits mentioned there was the option to request an en banc review of this, and I expect the arguments about whether to do that or not are probably fierce between the "client" (who wants to gum up the works and drag it out) and his attorneys.
Lasher
(29,577 posts)https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/21/donald-trump-special-master-00058176
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)A bunch of the usual MSNBC legal pundits (former US Attorneys, etc) mentioned "possible en banc" last night, although they were still smirking about the beat-down that Cannon got with that ruling!
Weissmann actually clarified by retweeting this last night -
Link to tweet
@AWeissmann_
·
Follow
In the weeds as to what Trump cd do now. But SCOTUS review is a losing proposition. And the Dearie SM proceedings are now largely about irrelevancies. And Dearie will make short work of it.
Steve Vladeck
@steve_vladeck
Eleventh Circuit Rule 35-4 expressly prohibits en banc reconsideration of panel rulings on applications for stays.
In English, if Trump wants to continue to defend Judge Cannon's injunction, his only remaining option is #SCOTUS (where, IMHO, he'll lose):
https://ca11.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/courtdocs/clk/Rules_Bookmark_AUG22.pdf
Image
9:44 PM · Sep 21, 2022

And Katyal had this -
Link to tweet
@neal_katyal
·
Follow
Trump can try to go to the US Supreme Court but it's a loser every day of the week. He just got obliterated by the Court of Appeals. Take a look at this, from the unanimous court (including 2 of 3 who were Trump appointees)
Image
8:09 PM · Sep 21, 2022
Was checking on Bradley Moss who was also on last night with Lawrence O'Donnell and saw this -
Link to tweet
@BradMossEsq
·
Follow
It's two of your former client's appointees, Jenna. They applied the actual law.
Jenna Ellis 🍊🦅
@JennaEllisEsq
The 11th Circuit is full of it. 💩
7:58 PM · Sep 21, 2022
Drum
(10,678 posts)wnylib
(26,017 posts)of the materials to check for personal items belonging to Trump?
If some of those items indicate a different type of crime, can't DOJ use them as evidence to investigate?
Or can Trump claim that they are personal items not covered by the search warrant?
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)but the only things that might be "personal" would be attorney-client stuff and all those magazines, newspaper clippings & photos, etc.
Plus if there were any gifts from heads of state given while he was President that were in those boxes, ALL of those belong to the federal government and are maintained by the WH Curator (and in some cases the Smithsonian at some point). They are "gifts" given to "The Office of the President", NOT to the person who is President. So all of that stuff needs to be kept by DOJ and transferred to the Archivists and Curators, etc.
wnylib
(26,017 posts)Imagine personal notes about J6 or the Ukrainian extortion call. Personal or government?
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)may have asked for that type of material as they were looking for stuff that was subject to the Presidential Records Act and if they found anything in the boxes taken from the search where that law applied, that would be something they keep.
When I was in the lab, we kept a "diary" of our work for the day, which was kept in a bound green book that looked like these (there were big ones and small ones) -



When we filled them up, we preserved them and periodically our admin staff would come around and collect them (with all kinds of other documents based on the Records Schedule), would box them, label the boxes, and transport them to the big National Archives Warehouse here in Philly for storage.
So THAT is how documents that are preserved are dealt with. That stuff belongs to the federal government and is preserved depending on the agency's Records Control Schedule - in some cases destroyed 1 year or 5 years or 20 years later, and in other cases, the material is preserved permanently. Other material could be destroyed (shredded, magnetized, etc). And I expect for the Office of the Presidency, most of that stuff is to be preserved "permanently" (something that I think happened after Nixon with passage of that Presidential Records Act).
Novara
(6,115 posts)This is standard in even non-governmental operations, but even more so in government. I worked for a company under contract with the Navy and learned all about record preservation there. And this was a private company.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)and with private industry, particularly for those doing manufacturing, that "information" is often used for patent applications.
And depending on how they write the government contracts, in many cases it explicitly states that "the government owns" that work product. I have mentioned that in threads about NASA's various spaceflights. I.e., "NASA" is not "building" those rockets but is working in collaboration with multiple contractors to design and assemble those craft, where those contracts give "ownership" to "the government" and NASA can slap its name on the side (and that includes that poor Artemis Project rocket that is apparently delayed until next week at the earliest).
Lasher
(29,577 posts)Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(69,854 posts)Link to tweet
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)in a unanimous, per curiam decision, the judges roundly and publicly, excoriated her, from top to bottom, for her idiotic ruling and nonsensical justifications!
Jarqui
(10,909 posts)BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)including staffers taking actual WH artifacts (e.g., Lincoln bust and the criminal taking a framed photo of 45 with XI), as they left!


EndlessWire
(8,103 posts)I wonder if Cannon has done her subservience and is out of gas on Trump's behalf. She now has to deal with the whining. Or, wining, to get through the days and nights of regret. Everything the Orange Turd touches, dies.
I was especially pleased that they noted that Trump's lawyers refused to provide to Dearie the details of how Trump allegedly declassified any documents. How did they discover that? Are they doing extracurricular reading, or did Dearie transmit the weak letter that Trump sent to him re his timeline to them? Or, did someone else? This was pretty swift.
Cobbledick?? Who has a name like "Cobbledick?"
I also loved the clear explanations and careful detailing of their reasoning. They also pointed out the contradictory and vague reasoning of the District Court's ruling. She got tromped.
And, they also noted that there might be missing documents to search out.
I feel so much better today! Two wins, back to back. Tell me, if Trump is kicked out of New York, does poor Ivana get dug up for removal from his former golf course? What loving child allows his/her mother to be buried in a pauper's grave like that?? I'll bet, since she got cremated, that she's not even in that grave. What is?
MerryBlooms
(12,248 posts)Martin68
(27,749 posts)Trump's options to delay the investigation further are very limited. I strongly doubt the SCOTUS would back him up.