Group can monitor Arizona ballot drop boxes, US judge rules

[aggiesal]

Source: Yahoo News

By: ANITA SNOW
Fri, October 28, 2022 at 12:03 PM

PHOENIX (AP) -- A federal judge Friday refused to bar a group from monitoring outdoor ballot boxes in Arizona's largest county where watchers have shown up armed and in ballistic vests, saying to do so could violate the monitors' constitutional rights.

U.S. District Court Judge Michael Liburdi said the case remained open and that the Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans could try again to make its argument against a group calling itself Clean Elections USA. A second plantiff, Voto Latino, was removed from the case.

Liburdi concluded that "while this case certainly presents serious questions, the Court cannot craft an injunction without violating the First Amendment." The judge is a Trump appointee and a member of the Federalist Society, a conservative legal organization.

...

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-judge-merges-arizona-drop-190349921.html

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The judge is a Trump appointee and a member of the Federalist Society, a conservative legal organization.


This is asinine.
This makes the monitor's rights more important than the Voters Rights.
This brilliant legal mind is saying, the right to harass voters outweighs the voters right to vote without being harassed.
Judges like this are not helping.

So now we have to put the Voter Drop boxes more than 75 ft. from the monitors/watchers.

[NewHendoLib]

1. We. Are. Fucked

[appmanga]

22. The thing people need to realize...

...is many autocracies became so through elections and under the color of law. The fascists here intend to do the same thing.

[AllTooEasy]

23. I waved my straight Dem ballot right at them today

I waved my straight Dem ballot right in front of their faces today, at Gilbert’s Fire Admin Bldg. I twice yelled out “straight Dem ballot right here!” when I arrived, and “nobody is going to intimidate me!” after dropping it in. Some “retired Hell’s Angel looking” chump just glared at me. I glared back. These people are punks. Don’t be afraid of them. That’s what they want. I let them know that this 51 year old Black Man is nobody’s b+€#.

The White men around me looked exasperated. The White women looked proud. I wonder why

[NJCher]

36. I love that

I'd totally do it if I had to see those jerks around my polling place.

[Marthe48]

46. Courage, young man!

I'm glad you asserted yourself, protected your right to vote, and didn't get hurt! It sure shouldn't be like this anywhere.

[NullTuples]

57. Courage in the face of real and irrational danger.

It wouldn't be terrorism if nobody thought one of these days one of the gun-toters might snap and ruin a life.

[electric_blue68]

65. Heh, good for you. And interesting observation.

[Bengus81]

40. We are not "fucked". Only if you let them win........

Just walk up to that box and drop it in.

[ananda]

2. Martial Law

I think it's time for Biden to declare Martial Law
and send the military in to protect voters and
keep elections safe.

[mpcamb]

13. I like it.

Never would have imagined an assent to that in my life
but those lying lowlife scum-of-the-pond excuses
for human life need to be stopped...

by other people who have guns... legitimately.

[ananda]

17. It's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

And not much does anyway!

[GB_RN]

55. You Insult Pond Scum...

It at least serves a purpose on Earth by creating oxygen and absorbing CO2. These clowns on the other hand, are a waste of space, resources and oxygen. If you told them that our water was contaminated with oxygen dihydrogen, they’d believe you…and likely create a crackpot conspiracy to try and explain it. All the while, not realizing that’s just another way to say H2O.

Fucking morons.

And as to this judge basically saying that their rights to intimidate voters outweighs people’s right to vote? Bullshit. That’s NOT free speech.

[onenote]

20. I think that's the stupidest thing I've read today.

I thought the decision was the stupidest but you've topped it.

To say nothing of the fact that I don't think you understand what martial law is and when, under the Constitution, it can be invoked.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

47. That's got to be one of the dumbest things I've read on DU this week.

Thank god we have Joe Biden as the Pres., he would never entertain such an obvious illegal order.

[Igel]

72. Martial law to protect liberty in peace time is not a winning look.

Try this.

Round up 50 people on your side. Send them in individually to drop a ballot (make sure they're registered voters, yada-yada).

If they're harassed, then they file a complaint. If one's harassed, one files a complaint.

"I was intimidated by the people" isn't harassment. I work in a high school. 3700 students and 300 staff are not intimidated by the police that patrol the school. Perhaps 100 are. They're not harassed, they've just been trained (by society/family or by life's events) to fear cops. (Most of my students that were in terror of cops had no actual run-ins with them, nor had their families; but they were conditioned by family and social media to blindly think that every cop wanted to kill them.... Seriously, I've seen panic attacks from the sound of a walkie-talkie ... carried by an administrative assistant!)

[Beachnutt]

3. Another group should monitor the group

monitoring the box, A group of men about 6'5" 250 lbs..

[bucolic_frolic]

7. +1 that is the answer

watch the watchers

[KentuckyWoman]

26. Yep. Circle um with vans and winnebagos

Make sure they can exit if they want but can't see what's going on at the drop box or who is coming and going.

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

4. It's just a matter of time until

a confrontation occurs and one of these gunnuts starts shooting at someone.

I agree with the first post- we are fucked.

[Hekate]

5. I can hardly wait till they tell the KKK they cn start burning crosses on people's front lawns again

[groundloop]

10. Good point. By their argument cross burning is just an innocent way to express their views.

[KentuckyWoman]

27. Sadly, I don't think you are far off.

I hope this turns back before that point comes.

[Fullduplexxx]

6. On January 17, 2019, President Donald Trump (R) nominated Liburdi

[Mr.Bill]

8. Sadly, I predict

there will be gunfire at a polling place somewhere in the country, probably several places.

[bronxiteforever]

9. I thought Liberty Valence was the bad guy

Especially when he was Intimidating voters. Guess I was wrong. He is the hero in present day America.

[argyl]

66. Off point, but this is one of my very favorite movies.

Although Jimmy Stewart was a little long in the tooth to play a tenderfoot Easterner fresh out of law school, to say the least.

[bronxiteforever]

68. Me as well. Love your Molly pic!

[canuckledragger]

11. But who monitors the fascists as they try to intimidate voters?

Something tells me this crooked judge would protect the violent MAGAts.

[gab13by13]

12. Stupidity on display, by the judge.

The freaking drop boxes have 24/7 video surveillance already.

[hadEnuf]

19. Not stupidity. He's doing what Trump and the MAGATS put him in there to do:

Pervert the law and tear down the American form of government.

There are a lot more Trojan Horses out there like this fascist pig judge too.

[dalton99a]

14. Just as predicted

[paleotn]

15. Sieg heil, judge.

Nazi fuck.

[keithbvadu2]

16. Put cameras on the armed 'watchers', especially their cars arriving and going. License plates covere

Put cameras on the armed 'watchers', especially their cars arriving and going. License plates covered up on city streets?

Give shields to voters to hide the view of them putting in their ballots.

A temporary shield that sticks out on the driver side rear window.

Run multiple cars multiple times with the shield when the traffic is empty. Do NOT put anything in the box but shield that fact.

[appmanga]

21. In many states...

it's illegal to cover a car's license plate. Arizona is one of those states. From Arizona statute 28-2354:

D. Unless authorized by the department, a person shall not apply a covering or any substance to the license plate or use an electronic device or electrochromatic film that obscures from any angle the numbers, characters, year validating tabs or name of the jurisdiction issuing the plate.

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/02354.htm

This law, ironically, was signed by a crackpot Conservative governor: Doug Ducey:

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/new-arizona-law-bans-obscuring-license-plate-covers-designed-to-beat-photo-radar-9202576

[Igel]

73. And why do you have that law?

Because in many jurisdictions cameras are used for both speeders, red-light runners, and toll cheats.

Mask your plates, and you can speed, run red lights, and cheat tolls.

Since those are typically laws passed democratically by a legislature and signed into law by a democratically elected governor, to mask your plates is to thwart democracy. You can't say, "I respect democracy, but not the legislature and executive and the voters and process that elected them!"

[BlueIdaho]

18. If it's legal to monitor drop boxes

It must also be legal to monitor the monitors. Follow them home if necessary - but keeps accurate logs on all who attempt to intimidate voters.

[area51]

24. This is outrageous.

[stopdiggin]

25. Can't say as I'm terribly surprised

by this ruling. And I'm thinking that a lot of people in the legal community aren't either. Also don't think this has a whole lot to do with jurisdiction (other than the open carry provision, which in fact also applies to a lot of places) - nor the judge. The plain fact is that the defendants are essentially just standing around in public places. It's pretty hard to argue that their mere presence - is illegal. And I think that same reasoning would come down in a lot of courts, regardless of who made the appointment.

[Conjuay]

41. loitering

is legal?
Cops always give people shit about loitering.

Loitering with intent to create a disturbance.

Or loitering while disturbed.

[stopdiggin]

43. that's weak, man.

and 'cops giving sh*t' - that's even weaker
(if we're talking about what's legal, and not bullying)

[MarineCombatEngineer]

53. Loitering is if you're there with no purpose,

these MAGAt's were there for a purpose, however stupid it is.

[brooklynite]

59. standing in public is absolutely legal.

If you were standing on a corner having a discussion with a friend, and a cop told you to break it up and move along, would you consider that fair?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

48. This ruling doesn't surprise me either,

I had a feeling that it would all hinge on whether or not it would infringe on their 1A right, I think it's stupid, but..................

[stopdiggin]

52. just can't see

where merely being in the vicinity - can be construed as 'interference' or intimidation. Now if these people were actual surrounding the drop box - taping it shut, actively thwarting people trying to approach - then that might be a different case. But none of that is going on (as least so far as we've learned to this point). The most egregious thing we've heard so far - is filming - and that is 100% legal.

Frankly, I don't think the judge really had a lot of choice. And a ruling going in another direction would probably be reversed or placed on hold very quickly. We might not like what's going on - but I don't think the legal issues here are that cloudy.

[ificandream]

28. When did TV judge Pirro start hearing cases in Arizona?

Monitors' rights? What about the voters' rights, lamebrain judge?

[niyad]

32. an appointee of the F'n, murdering, orange TRAITOR**.

[tonekat]

29. A friend in AZ

Has thought about riding his bike up to them with a backpack full of envelopes to troll them. "Hi guys, nice day!"

They'll just keep doing this until fascism takes over. No one's fighting back.

The Dems have integrity.

The morons have more guns and fantasize about using them.

I do get texts from multiple dem candidates every day asking for more money. Sorry, that discretionary budget has been depleted.

It doesn't inspire confidence.

[Ford_Prefect]

30. This has serious potential to go very bad, along with intimidating voters.

[Smackdown2019]

31. Whats to monitor?

Dont get it.

I do get the imitation factor, but what are they to monitor and who do they report to?

I say let point out that there are men with armor wear at ballot boxes. Are they breaking into them? Are they trying to steal ballots? Are they trying to hit on other men?

Easy response, "move out of my way" if they dont, obstruction of ones constitutional right to vote.

[niyad]

33. And who is paying them?

[Judi Lynn]

34. Earlier article on Trump judge:Mike Liburdi, former Ducey lawyer, confirmed by Senate as U.S. judge

Mike Liburdi, former Ducey lawyer, confirmed by Senate as U.S. judge
Jeannette Hinkle
The Republic | azcentral.com




The Senate on Tuesday voted to confirm Mike Liburdi of Scottsdale to serve as a U.S. District Court judge for Arizona.

Both Sen. Martha McSally, R-Ariz., and Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, D-Ariz., voted to confirm Liburdi, a conservative attorney who worked as Gov. Doug Ducey's general counsel during the governor's first term.

. . .

Sinema said in a written statement that she evaluates every nominee "based on whether he or she is professionally qualified, believes in the role of an independent judiciary, and can be trusted to faithfully interpret and uphold the rule of law."

"After knowing him for many years, meeting with him, and carefully considering his nomination, I believe Mike Liburdi meets those high standards," Sinema said.

. . .

Liburdi was the first in a group of 19 Trump judicial nominees to be confirmed by the Senate this week, Tobias said.

. . .

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2019/07/30/mike-liburdi-former-ducey-lawyer-confirmed-senate-u-s-judge/1868288001/

[ancianita]

42. Yep, another trump judge. Cannon and her boss are smiling.

[sakabatou]

35. According to this judge, voter intimidation is a-ok.

[aggiesal]

37. Hard to believe, isn't it?

[sakabatou]

39. Considering who appointed him, no.

[Grins]

38. How many feet do you have to stay back from an abortion clinic?

And “monitor” WHAT, exactly???

[BradBo]

44. Get out the popcorn folks.

[Marthe48]

45. Such a gd shame

such a blot, such rot.

I hope the idiots trying to intimidate voters finally look at themselves and see how unpatriotic they are, how silly they look, how stupid they are.

But no, that would take empathy, self-reflection, and a highly developed brain.

The only good thing that will come out of it is that they won't catch any mules, and they will end up wishing they had those hours and days back. F**k em, and f**k that p.o.s. guy in a robe pretending to his seat on a bench.

[Genki Hikari]

51. They're incurably stupid

So they can't comprehend how much of anti-American scum they are.

[Genki Hikari]

49. Hear that, New Black Panthers?

It's your First Amendment right to go stand outside of drop boxes while masked, armed and wearing tactical regalia. Oh--and having covered-up license plates.

Time to scope out drop boxes in the traitor r areas--it's your RIGHT!

Let's see how long they get to hang around those drop boxes compared to the traitor yokels.

[Roetdoe]

50. We should send people to watch the Watchers

It's legal to do so.

[kimbutgar]

54. Have your phone charged and your camera ready to record anyone who intimidates you when you're

Trying to vote. Don’t engage just record.

It would freak out these creeps if a bunch of people were recording them.

[Ohioboy]

56. It always seems like there is a double standard when it comes to protest

For example, I remember when George Bush came to my town and people wanted to protest the war in Iraq. Those wishing to protest weren't allowed to protest just anywhere. They were relegated to "free speech zones" far away from any main action that was taking place. Bush never went near the "free speech zone".

When the "Left" protests they are told to keep moving and not block traffic, both pedestrian or vehicular.

When Magats protest, they are allowed to do it with guns while standing on the steps of State Houses. They are not told to keep moving, and they are allowed to block everyone around them.

Just an observation.

[brooklynite]

58. The ruling was probably correct from a legal standpoint.

Poll watchers/observers are allowed to stand no less than 75 feet from the drop box (and presumably from a polling place).

Arizona residents are allowed to open carry guns.

People are also presumably allowed to take photos in public places.

The key to this issue is to show proof of observers threatening or obstructing voters. "we know what they're really doing" isn't generally an acceptable legal argument.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

60. It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

[Kaleva]

69. +1

[Rocknation]

61. Monitor them right the fuck back

We have THAT right, don't we?


Rocknation

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

62. Local Dems

and Progressives ought to form a poll watcher watching group and watch the watchers!
Seriously. These nimrods think they are the only people who care about out nation...

[CitizenZero]

63. Good Idea

We should meet illegal behavior with legal and vigilant observation and recording. Any illegal actions by these armed wing nuts should be recorded and referred to local law enforcement. It is important not to engage with these fascists directly but rather through observation and evidence provided to legitimate law enforcement agents. We must not escalate but rather use the law rightfully against those that might break the law.

[Old Crank]

64. Time to

Time to monitor the monitors. Video the people taking videos from between the box and their cameras. Stand between the gun men and the boxes and video them.

[argyl]

67. Our GOTV may save our country.

I'm living overseas now but I talked to my sister yesterday. She lives in Collin County, Texas, specifically Plano.
It's a very red part of the DFW Metroplex. And she says she sees Beto signs everywhere and has only seen one Abbott sign.
That's most encouraging. Beto's very smart and charismatic and even without holding an office has a national presence among Dems.
Should he win this gubernatorial race he'd be looked upon as a possible Presidential candidate.
Hopefully in 2028 after two successful Democratic Presidencies in a row.

[Kaleva]

70. Has anyone come fwd saying they couldn't use the drop box because of them?

[MadMike47]

71. There are more than 40 U.S. Marshals based in Arizona.

They are under the direction of Attorney General, Merrick Garland. He could order them in to protect voting sites from terrorists. He just needs to give the order.