Pence to fight subpoena from special counsel investigating Trump on separation of powers grounds

[BumRushDaShow]

Last edited Tue Feb 14, 2023, 10:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: CNN Politics

CNN — Former Vice President Mike Pence is expected to fight a recent subpoena from the special counsel investigating former President Donald Trump’s post-2020 election activities based on the grounds that he was president of the Senate at the time and therefore shielded from the order, sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

Pence is expected to address the subpoena and his response to it during a trip to Iowa on Wednesday, according to a source familiar with his plans. His decision to fight the subpoena comes as the former vice president is mulling a 2024 presidential bid.

Pence has been subpoenaed by Jack Smith, the special counsel investigating Trump and his role in January 6, 2021, a source familiar with the matter told CNN. Smith’s office is seeking documents and testimony, the source said. Investigators want the former vice president to testify about his interactions with Trump leading up to the 2020 election and the day of the attack on the US Capitol.

The subpoena marks an important milestone in the Justice Department’s two-year criminal investigation, now led by the special counsel, into the efforts by Trump and allies to impede the transfer of power after he lost the 2020 election. Pence is an important witness who has detailed in a memoir some of his interactions with Trump in the weeks after the election, a move that likely opens the door for the Justice Department to override at least some of Trump’s claims of executive privilege.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/14/politics/mike-pence-subpoena-special-counsel/index.html

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Short article at post time and then updated.

"Separation of powers" doesn't negate "checks and balances".

[Freethinker65]

1. Protecting Trump over the Country will be Pence's Presidential campaign slogan

[BumRushDaShow]

3. I think it will be more like

"Protecting Thineself over the Country".

[Walleye]

2. OK. We need to get up a Senate committee and question him in public

Then will he claim to be part of the executive branch? This is so fucking lame

[2naSalit]

10. +1

[PatSeg]

32. Oh yes, I'm sure he would

Apparently as a former vice president, he has some special status making him immune to everything. How very republican-esque of him; republicans believe laws and rules apply to other people, but not themselves.

[BidenRocks]

79. I want to hear

Dick Cheney call Bullshit!

[PatSeg]

82. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

"Hey Mikey, even Darth Vader says you're full of it!"

[MiHale]

4. Trump's condom...eom

[Aviation Pro]

24. Bloated Tick's used condom

And used shit paper.

[bucolic_frolic]

5. President of the Senate and Vice President of the US at the same time

Mikey's splitting hairs. He knows this subpoena is a career-ending millstone unless he can dodge it. The truth he would tell may even deviate from his book. He's hung out to dry in my opinion. It won't end well even if he manages to avoid testifying. He will be remembered badly as weak, devious, and part of the corruption.

[Ray Bruns]

21. Neither trump or pence will be remembered at all. Especially pence.

[PatSeg]

34. Pence has always been forgettable

Always living in the shadows of other people. Bland, dull, colorless, and painfully boring.

[Delmette2.0]

31. Did Pence ever have to do anything as President of the Senate?

Other than swear someone into office.

Any tied votes?

Daily reports to review?

Decisions to make on proposed bills?

[Joinfortmill]

6. Wow, very difficult to wrap your head around this.

[Jarqui]

7. Like most Republicans, he wants support from Trump's base

He has to be perceived as fighting the good fight for Trump and the party.
His aspirations for 2024 are probably fatal among the MAGAts from his decision to not go along with Trump's insurrection.
He's probably just playing the game Mother told him to play.

[BumRushDaShow]

8. That "base" constructed gallows

and were yelling "Hang Mike Pence!!!11!!1!!1! Hang Mike Pence!!!11!!1!!1! Hang Mike Pence!!!11!!1!!1!".

He actually has his own christo-fascist base that he would probably try to tap into which includes the RW evangelicals and others.

[MyOwnPeace]

38. He's SO damned stupid.........

There is NO way he can win this fight no matter what way it goes! If he agrees to honor the subpoena the MAGAts will never forgive or forget (yeah, the 'contractors!'). If he 'fights' it, he's gonna' lose anyhow, just showing that he has NO clue nor any intention to do what he SHOULD do for his country.

Just a milk-dud loser. He should just go back to catching flies.........

[SouthernDem4ever]

50. He's just gaming the system like trump

frivolous delays is all they know how to do.

[ananda]

9. All this, even though Trump tried to have him killed.

He is a real a mess of a person to go along with that.

[Jarqui]

13. He's a Republican

He (or Mother) wants power.
He (or Mother) doesn't care how he gets it.

[Eyeball_Kid]

33. Trump tried to walk over Pence's carcass on his way to re-election.

And Trump's worshippers want to back Pence's drive for president???

[2naSalit]

11. Ha ha! Good luck with that, flyboy!

[tavernier]

12. What a tap dancing fool.

[The Magistrate]

14. Points For Creativity, Sir, But Still No Cigar

Hard to see it carrying the day, even with the current debasement of the courts. There's an odd ring to asserting Executive privilege against the Executive itself....

[PatSeg]

35. It certainly does sound like

a lot of convoluted doubletalk, doesn't it? I guess it doesn't really have to make any sense, as long as it sounds official.

[emulatorloo]

70. Republican logic. Courts have been ruling against Trump's fake claims of "Privilege," doubt

Pence is going to do well with this lame ass excuse.

[czarjak]

15. In the name of Jesus too. Ask him.

[bullimiami]

16. What seperation. It's the executive branch investigating the executive branch.

[MissMillie]

40. that was my exact thought (n/t)

.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

17. Pence is set to argue that his former role as president of the Senate protects him from Subpoena

The speech and debate clause did not protect Lindsey Graham in the Georgia subpoena case.

Link to tweet

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/14/pence-subpoena-trump-election-00082637

Pence is set to argue that his former role as president of the Senate — therefore a member of the legislative branch — shields him from certain Justice Department demands.

Pence allies say he is covered by the constitutional provision that protects congressional officials from legal proceedings related to their work — language known as the “speech or debate” clause. The clause, Pence allies say, legally binds federal prosecutors from compelling Pence to testify about the central components of Smith’s investigation. If Pence testifies, they say, it could jeopardize the separation of powers that the Constitution seeks to safeguard.

“He thinks that the ‘speech or debate’ clause is a core protection for Article I, for the legislature,” said one of the two people familiar with Pence’s thinking, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss his legal strategy. “He feels it really goes to the heart of some separation of powers issues. He feels duty-bound to maintain that protection, even if it means litigating it.”

Pence’s planned argument comes after an FBI search that followed his attorney’s voluntary report of classified material in his possession last month — drawing him into a thicket of document-handling drama that’s also ensnared Trump and President Joe Biden. While Pence aides say he’s taking this position to defend a separation of powers principle, it will allow him to avoid being seen as cooperating with a probe that is politically damaging to Trump, who remains the leading figure in the Republican Party.

[Cha]

63. TY! Pence is a dirty little treasonous coward..

Link to tweet

[Igel]

68. That's the first thing that came to mind.

Otherwise why point out he was also a legislator. Sort of.

[sinkingfeeling]

18. Bulls**t.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

19. This 1973 legal opinion is interesting

Link to tweet

[BumRushDaShow]

20. ...

[Cha]

64. I'm wondering if Jack Smith would

Last edited Tue Feb 14, 2023, 07:27 PM - Edit history (1)

have even subpoenaed Pence If he though he could weasel out of it?

[emulatorloo]

71. Smith is not playing games. Pence doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

[Cha]

74. I just reread my post and it

said "indicted" when I meant "subpoenaed" .. getting ahead of myself!

So TY for bringing my attention back to it.. I'm going to edit now.

And, yeah.. I don't imagine Jack Smith is playing.. it's Pence who's fucking around.

[emulatorloo]

75. Oh I knew what you meant!

Courts have been ruling left and right against Trump’s bogus claims of “privilege.” I just can’t see Pence succeeding to avoid testifying AT ALL.

[Cha]

78. Oh good lol Pence is a little

lily livered chicken shit..

Link to tweet

[Gore1FL]

22. Separating the powers of the Executive from the Executive branch?

Republicans want power, but don't understand government.

[Aviation Pro]

23. Weasely weasel gotta weasel

What a bunch of weak, fucking men, these motherfuckers are.

[kacekwl]

25. Once again, you don't

fight a subpoena and claim the 5th if you're innocent.

[MyOwnPeace]

42. Hmmmmmmm........

where have I heard THAT before????????

[Ford_Prefect]

26. Not. Gonna. Work. Doing crime while on the job is not protected. Pence knew the coup was planned.

He also knew things which he had no doubt were foreknowledge of intended illegal acts by numerous members of the regime and his own party. Since he told no-one with appropriate authority about this prior to or during the events of Jan. 6th he withheld knowledge of a crime: information which may have led to preventing these events.

The import of this is he had a duty as Vice President to protect and defend the Constitution and the Nation. Doing his job at ANY time he held the office required him specifically to rise above political loyalties and considerations. The defense that he was "only doing his job" on the day is completely inside-out. That his actions while he held the gavel were immune from legal impact dopes not stand.

[Scalded Nun]

27. And this cowardly piece of shit wants to be president of this country?

[CaptainTruth]

28. No way. Just no way!

[malthaussen]

29. So what else is new?

Seems like nobody accepts a subpoena without a fight these days.

-- Mal

[Botany]

30. ATTm Mike Pence

You will never be President.

Trump wanted you murdered so he could declare martial law.

Do the right and just tell the truth.

[housecat]

36. tfg only picked Pence because no one would want a marshmallow as president

[padah513]

62. When they were at some meeting and trump put his water bottle on the floor

Then pence rushed and did the same, that told me everything I needed to know about the guy. What a wimpy, wimpy worm.

[housecat]

66. what a wimpy traitor

[Zilli]

37. This "decent man", this fine christian gentleman

is going to prove just how christian he is and refuse to tell the truth. For a very short time I had the erroneous impression that he was just waiting for a subpoena so that he could tell the truth with the protection of secret grand jury testimony. I was wrong, this christian man should be willing to tell the truth. HE ISN'T ! !

[bluestarone]

39. Question for the smarter ones here.

The SC already made a decision on this, from what i've been told. Now, is this a separate argument for the Supreme Court?

[Fiendish Thingy]

46. He appears not be directly claiming EP, but separation of powers

SCOTUS has already ruled on EP claims from former administrations, but not on this specific claim that DOJ (executive branch) cannot compel testimony from someone in their role in the legislative branch due to separation of powers, speech and debate clause, blah blah blah.

I think it will fail.

[bluestarone]

47. I was wondering. So

THIS gives the SC another reason to DELAY! and they will fucking DELAY!

[Fiendish Thingy]

48. It only took SCOTUS around two months to rule against Trump's EP claims. Nt

[bluestarone]

49. Two months would be fine, BUT

I fear this will turn into 6 to 8 months. (because i feel that Smith is fighting our own court system, that is trying to STALL.) That is just my opinion.

[Fiendish Thingy]

52. We shall see, but I don't think Pence is as significant a witness as the media says

With the exception of one private phone call with Trump, everything Pence would testify about was witnessed by, and already testified about, by his COS, his WH counsel, Cassidy Hutchinson, and other WH staffers. Sure, Eastman took the fifth, but AFAIK, nobody else who was in the room with Pence and Trump has.

Pence’s testimony is likely corroborative icing on the cake (and also a perjury…opportunity).

[bluestarone]

53. The route that would make me happy is to

Offer Pence FULL IMMUNITY, to FORCE his testimony. (if that's possible)

[Fiendish Thingy]

54. Immunity wouldn't circumvent the Separations argument to compel testimony

But a court ruling would.

Now, if Pence took the fifth, immunity could be considered, but I’d have to wonder, what crime is he afraid he’d be incriminating himself for? He did the right thing!

[bluestarone]

56. One more question.

Could Smith ask SC for speedy ruling?

[Fiendish Thingy]

57. Yes, just as was done a year ago for the EP claims. Nt

Now, whether they would agree to an accelerated hearing, who knows?

[bluestarone]

58. Well if they refuse

THAT would send us a CLEAR message of their involvement, ( well to me it would)

[Fiendish Thingy]

61. Well, a refusal to hear the case at all could be a good thing

Because that would mean that Pence had lost in a lower court, appealed, and SCOTUS refused to hear the appeal, which means the lower court ruling would stand.

But yes, the nuances of scheduling an appeal in front of SCOTUS could tell us something, however, we must remember in all cases in which Trump was a named party that came before SCOTUS, they ruled against Trump, often quickly.

[flying_wahini]

41. Of course Pence is fighting it. He wants the MAGA crowd to know he is being "forced" so they

don’t come after him.
Anyway you slice it his career is over!

[riversedge]

44. @JoyceWhiteVance "They will not succeed."

I do hope she is right.



@JoyceWhiteVance
·
22h
1/The former president’s attorneys are expected to fight to prevent Mike Pence from complying with the special counsel’s subpoena summoning Pence to testify before the grand jury about January 6 and events leading up to it, on executive privilege grounds. They will not succeed.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=KV6sMN-Zg_dZAiZt87aufw

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=KV6sMN-Zg_dZAiZt87aufw

[Cha]

65. TY for Joyce Vance, rivers!

[riversedge]

67. hey there.

[Fiendish Thingy]

45. Clever dodge to avoid EP claim, which SCOTUS already ruled on.

I’m not sure it will work, except perhaps for that small amount of time he was on the floor acting presiding over the senate. All his interactions with Trump and Eastman leading up to January 6 are fair game IMO.

[emulatorloo]

72. Lindsey tried this nonsense to get out of testifying in GA. Didn't work out for him.

.

[Rebl2]

51. What is

he afraid of? Maybe taking the 5th multiple times?

[Bayard]

55. He's afraid there will be calls to hang him again

The playbook doesn't vary much.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

59. Trump set the standard.

[Samrob]

60. Sure looks bad for someone running for office and a purported Christian. nt

[emulatorloo]

76. Agreed, he claims to be very devout. So I don't see how he justifies hiding out.

[panader0]

69. Is this not the same thing that Lindsey Graham tried? It failed then and will fail now.

[emulatorloo]

73. Yes.

[BlueIdaho]

77. So a guy who refuses to testify about his role in the Jan. 6th insurrection

Wants you to trust him as the next President of the United States? Fuck no!

[AverageOldGuy]

80. Mike Pence needs to make up his feeble mind

When Pence refused to abide by the Jan 6 Committee subpoena, he claimed he was protected from the subpoena because of executive privilege because he, as VP, was part of the Executive Branch.

Now that Jack Smith has issued a subpoena, Pence claims he cannot be subpoenaed because he was a member of the Legislative Branch, the Senate.

MAKE UP YOUR FEEBLE MIND, ASSHOLE -- were you Vice-President in the Executive Branch, or, a member of the Senate?

HINT: You were not a member of the Senate. You are not able to use the "I was a member of the Senate" argument. You cannot use Executive Privilege because President Biden has denied the privilege to you. So get your flabby ass in gear and testify. You can take Mother with you to change your diapers.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

81. Andrew Weisman-Interesting thread on Pence legal argument Re Jack Smith subpoena.

This is a good thread on this issue

Link to tweet

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