New emergency bid to appeal, block huge Nevada lithium mine

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By SCOTT SONNER 9 minutes ago

RENO, Nev. (AP) — Conservationists are seeking an emergency court order to block construction of a Nevada lithium mine after a U.S. judge directed a federal agency to revisit part of its approval of the plans but allowed construction to go forward in the meantime.

Four environmental groups want U.S. District Judge Miranda Du in Reno to temporarily halt any work at a subsidiary of Lithium Americas’ mine near the Oregon border until they can appeal her ruling earlier this month to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

They filed on Tuesday a formal notice of their intent to appeal to the San Francisco-based circuit court and an emergency motion for injunction in Reno pending the appeal.

“This mine should not be allowed to destroy public land unless and until the Ninth Circuit has determined whether it was legally approved,” Talasi Brooks, a lawyer for the Western Watersheds Project, said Tuesday.



Read more: https://apnews.com/article/politics-nevada-san-francisco-reno-business-38b63984e241611ef13f9b2dff4c8f97

[Throck]

1. Don't ship it on the railroad, that's for sure.

[Wolf Frankula]

2. Let's buy it from China

where it can be mined by slave labor.

Wolf

[The Mouth]

3. Needed to be said

All we have done for the last 20-30 years has been to outsource our pollution.

[OAITW r.2.0]

4. I get that mining is ecologically problematic and I'm sure lithium ore will be bad,

But if you want to have cars running on batteries instead of gas, you have to accept the consequences. And I don't think we want to be beholden to China for this material.

[jimfields33]

5. There's nothing perfect in this world

Perhaps someday a car will be made from something other than battery or gas. Until then, we need to have the safest and ecological product. The consensus seems to be electric cars which take batteries.

[OAITW r.2.0]

7. It's also an opportunity to make sure this mining operation is done

with impact mitigation strategies before the first extraction begins.

[Effete Snob]

21. Just out of curiosity

Where do you charge your car?

I live in a townhouse condo development and I couldn’t even tell you where the nearest charger is.

There are no garages, you can’t install a charger outside, and you can’t run a cable either.

My circumstances are not unusual so I’m wondering if you have a charger in your garage or if you have an outside charger.

In your town, do apartment complexes have one for each space, or does everyone happily share the ones available?

Do people with two cars need two car garages now?

[OAITW r.2.0]

25. Well. if I had an electric car, I would charge it directly from the solar panels on my garage.

It would cost me < $1000.00 to add a charger in the garage.

[Effete Snob]

27. Ah, you have a garage

Good thing to have.

My community will not allow chargers, so we certainly aren’t going to be beholden to China for lithium.

[OAITW r.2.0]

29. That's the rural lifestyle for you.

When I want to get something, I need to go 15 miles to Walmart or 40 miles to Bangor or Waterville. No mass transportation exists for me or 35% of the US population. But I do support a lot more spending for city/suburban transit.

[inthewind21]

55. So

You can't use a battery tender on your car? Or motorcycle or any electric lawn equipment? Charging a car isn;t any different. There are home charges available for purchase.

https://www.amazon.com/ShockFlo-110-240V-Portable-Electric-Compatible/dp/B0BF4PLT6H/ref=sxin_17_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.948775b6-578a-48f0-9c1a-0b9de33753ab%3Aamzn1.sym.948775b6-578a-48f0-9c1a-0b9de33753ab&crid=3OJDOE92RERWT&cv_ct_cx=electric%2Bzebra%2BshadesEV+car+charger&keywords=electric%2Bzebra%2BshadesEV+car+charger&pd_rd_i=B0BF4PLT6H&pd_rd_r=7bf7488d-ad70-4c59-ac3e-e2a768411e8a&pd_rd_w=uQGyF&pd_rd_wg=kWNQI&pf_rd_p=948775b6-578a-48f0-9c1a-0b9de33753ab&pf_rd_r=SXQYP7X614XZ51DTT4ER&qid=1677527045&sprefix=electric%2Bzebra%2Bshadesev+car+charger%2Caps%2C159&sr=1-3-a73d1c8c-2fd2-4f19-aa41-2df022bcb241-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.08f69ac3-fd3d-4b88-bca2-8997e41410bb&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRTRGWUZUUTRNSk80JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjYxMzEzMjM2RlZaUFVXRDk1WSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDc0NDA0NDNCRUNVMjk0QllCJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3Bfc2VhcmNoX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

[Effete Snob]

57. This may come as a surprise to you

But a significant portion of the population does not own a home, and instead rents one. Likewise, a significant portion of people who do own homes, own condos, townhouses or other properties that do not come with a private garage in which they can install electrical appliances, and they certainly cannot install them in the parking lot or street outside of their home.

So, no, I have not had to touch a piece of "lawn equipment" in over 20 years, among other things, having long ago sold a home with a large yard for, among other reasons, the very reason that I was done spending my weekends being a grass farmer. That was an occupation I do not miss. I am financially well off, but I don't have an interest in doing yardwork, so along with my neighbors and co-owners we pay people whose job that is. We have people from exotic lands abroad come to take care of our grass and trees. I totally get that a lot of people enjoy a second job as a grass farmer, and they aren't interested in using their weekends to spend time with children or spouses, but I find my own occupation and my family to be a lot more interesting than figuring out how to do battle with a dandelion.

I have no idea how the device you linked is at all useful to me. Am I supposed to run a cable outside, across the sidewalk, and into the parking lot of the complex?

I gather that in your future, everyone will have a garage - and on top of that, they will park their car in it. Is that correct?

But, no, running an electric cable across the lawn and sidewalk to the parking area would not only be a trip hazard, but I am certain that my neighbors, who are much snobbier than I, would get the vapors. Along with not having second jobs as grass farmers, we are also not part time auto mechanics or car washers along the private street to which the townhouses front.

[jimfields33]

28. If I had an electric car, I'd put it in garage. Two car garage would be plenty

of space. As far as townhomes, I believe they will be built like they are at Wawa where they are outside and perhaps each home gets one.

[Effete Snob]

30. Ha

You haven’t spoken with my condo committee lately.

Do you currently park both your cars in the garage?

[jimfields33]

32. No. One is outside. The other inside. Yes two car garage is fine with

nothing in it. Literally. Lol. I live in an HOA and as far as I know, they haven’t even begun thinking about electric car rules. They will probably wait until 2030.

[Caribbeans]

20. That day has been here for a few years

But few seem to know about it

The consensus seems to be electric cars which take batteries.

Usually by those invested in battery tech. Hydrogen cars ARE Electric cars - without the 1,300 pound Li-Ion battery pack.

Every single battery made today will die one day and need replacement - batteries degrade not only because of use but because of time. Recycling of Li-Ion batteries in 2023 is not cost effective yet.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

22. Far more energy is WASTED producing hydrogen vs electricity for one thing

Also the distribution system is wholly lacking.

Also the containers for the hydrogen in the vehicle are far from weightless.

Hydrogen may have uses for certain applications (perhaps semis), but it sucks for passenger cars for so many reasons.

[NickB79]

33. Gotta build an entirely new pipeline network to transport it

Seeing as existing gas pipelines can't handle hydrogen, unlike what the natural gas industry tried to claim for years.

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/industrial/evidence-does-not-support-view-that-existing-gas-network-can-safely-handle-blend-of-hydrogen-and-methane-says-us-government/2-1-1394325

Blending hydrogen into the gas network could affect the molecular structure of plastic gas pipes and has the potential to nearly double the volume of leakage, a literature review from the US government scientists has indicated.

Researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) in Colorado found that there are large gaps in data around the effects of hydrogen blends in gas infrastructure such as underground storage and pipelines — even when using polyethylene plastic pipes, which have long been touted by the gas industry as a safe way to transport hydrogen or blends of up to 20% hydrogen and 80% fossil gas.

[Effete Snob]

8. "But if you want to have cars running on batteries instead of gas"

You meant to say "If you want to have sprawling suburbs which are designed to necessitate car dependence".




I had a graphic that also included "self-driving cars" but have misplaced that one.

[tinrobot]

10. You can't see it in the picture, but the one on the right has far less asthma

Study links adoption of electric vehicles with less air pollution and improved health

Researchers from the Keck School of Medicine of USC conducted one of the first-ever studies showing that electric cars are associated with real-world reductions in both air pollution and respiratory problems.


https://keck.usc.edu/study-links-adoption-of-electric-vehicles-with-less-air-pollution-and-improved-health/

[Effete Snob]

12. That's great

I'm sure there are all sorts of differences which will be apparent to both the haves and the have-nots as car ownership becomes more of an economic trap than it already is.

[paleotn]

15. I really don't think you're going to get that genie back in the bottle anytime soon.

I don't disagree with you, but it's just not going to happen in our lifetimes.

[Effete Snob]

18. Remember the Embarcadero Freeway?

Highway removal projects are growing, and a lot of cities found out that turning parking spaces into cafés generates more revenue than being subsidized individual car storage.

https://www.cnu.org/what-we-do/build-great-places/embarcadero-freeway



Same in Seattle:

The suburbanization of poverty is going to pick up due to the basic Ponzi scheme involved in the massive subsidies underlying car dependent planning.

I guess everyone is going to clear out their garages to park the cars in them in the world of next Tuesday. Because you sure as hell aren’t going to put chargers outside in most suburban neighborhoods - and that goes for single family homes, townhouse condos and apartment complexes. They prohibit chargers outside across the board.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

24. That thing was a travesty ...

But it was torn down due to damage from the 1987 earthquake. Might still be there otherwise.

It was handy for getting to Broadway from the Bay Bridge tho. Put you out right near Tomassos at Kearny and Broadway, and the Palladium (an 18 and over dance club in the 80's I frequented) ... and also the titty bars

I liked it being there when I was 18-21 and went to SF all the time, but I was happy when I was a little older, and that horrible eyesore was gone. The waterfront is 1000X more beautiful without it.

I think Bono cursed it in 1987 during the filming of Rattle & Hum

[Effete Snob]

26. Yes, but

The weird thing is that they got rid of it and survived.

Just as an aside, I’m curious where you charge your car. Does your local HOA/zoning/what-have-you permit you to do it outside on the street or your driveway (if you have one). Or is the idea that everyone who owns a car is going to need a garage?

[tinrobot]

35. There are all sorts of places to charge cars

A garage is nice, but not required.

In California, HOAs can't stand in the way of owners who want to install a charger.

Plenty of people here in Southern California also do great with public charging. Plug in while grocery shopping or whatever.

The solutions already exist. We just need to build more. Biden's $7.5B in NEVI funding will help a lot with that.

[MichMan]

38. How about people that park on the street in front of their house?

Will they have to drive and find a public charger somewhere and plug in there ?

[tinrobot]

40. If they don't have "private" charging, then yes, they would need to use "public" charging.

Plenty of people here in Southern California do it successfully. It's not much different than going to gas stations, which are all "public".

That said, California has more infrastructure than other states. So, we will have to double down on expanding the public networks throughout the US. Biden's infrastructure bill will help a lot, but we'll need to keep going and do more.

[MichMan]

41. That means those will probably be charging at peak times when it is more expensive instead of night

[tinrobot]

43. Usually not. Most public charging is either a flat fee and/or free.

The mall by my house has a few dozen free Volta chargers.

I got three years of free fast charging with my EV, after that, they charge a flat fee per kW.

[Effete Snob]

58. Yes

You will apparently enjoy spending your time at the mall.

[Sgent]

42. The big one of course

is that an electric vehicle will use about 10% of the greenhouse gas emissions, assuming coal electricity generation, as an ICE car. Reduction in localized pollution is also nice for those with heart disease, asthma or COPD. As to other issues, it is fine to address them as long as it doesn't slow the removal of ICE cars from our roads.

[NNadir]

17. I don't want cars running on batteries. Even though I own a hybrid, I feel as guilty as hell...

...about it in some profound ways. I'm actually worse than most people because I know what's involved.

The electric car fantasy is going to prove a world class environmental disaster, which is not to say the petroleum car wasn't one. Clearly it was.

At the end of the day the problem is cars, but if we have to have some self propelled vehicles, there are vastly better ways to have them than having slaves in the DRC dig cobalt so we can all tell ourselves how "green" we are.

I keep insisting that in order to graduate from high school, one should be able to state the laws of thermodynamics. Because we can't, we believe this "batteries will save us" bullshit.

[Sgent]

59. Tesla

no longer uses Cobalt (hasn't for a couple of years), IDK about other manufacturers.

[NNadir]

62. You can believe whatever you want.

Last edited Tue Feb 28, 2023, 12:06 AM - Edit history (2)

That's your choice.

I mean the apartheid guy wants you to believe he's got sourcing under control, according to this article from a bourgeois hype squad, Electrek, Tesla explains its approach to sourcing lithium, nickel, and cobalt directly from mines in impressive detail (The Electrek article featuring a shot of Musk is dated May 9, 2022, not "a couple of years" ago.

Unlike other elements, cobalt, which is monoisotopic - Co-59 is the only stable isotope - is more or less impossible to trace, but Elon, when he's not smoking dope, cheering for white supremacists, and whatever other reprehensible crap he hands out, has cobalt under control, or, um, um, um, even though he has it under control, doesn't use it.

I may be old but I'm not senile.

I tend not to believe the bullshit the Tesla marketing department puts out.

One thing I'll say for the Tesla people, is they're really, really, really, really good at selling hype and delusion.

I mean this guy, Musk an asshole who puts small solar cells on his chargers, and wants everyone to believe his stupid car is solar powered.

It isn't.

As a scientist, who happens to come across all kinds of battery bull in the primary scientific literature, the one thing I do know whatever the source of the metals, whether cobalt, manganese, or nickel from Putin's mines at Norlisk, which I discussed here, is that electric cars are not "green," unless electricity is "green."

Guess what?

Electricity, a thermodynamically degraded form of energy, isn't green.

The fraction of electricity being generated by burning dangerous fossil fuels and dumping the waste directly into the planetary atmosphere, is rising, not falling. Batteries, in general, are a thermodynamic shell game, and all the cheering here and elsewhere for Musk and his fucking battery operated car for the bourgeoisie won't change that fact.

Added to that we are not going to mine our way out of climate change by playing the energy equivalent of Three Card Monte; everything we're doing, including hyping electric cars, is making things worse, not better.

The longer we lie to ourselves, or buy other people's happy lies, the more we are stealing from future generations.

[oldsoftie]

31. Which is why the total electric car route is a fantasy.

And making us more & more beholden to China
The best way to go with todays tech is reverse hybrid; electric primary with a small gas motor for recharging. No range anxiety, no charging waits. No lines. Batteries last longer
Nobody thinks about just what it would be like if EVERY car was total electric. What a mess.

[womanofthehills]

47. Actually, Latin America has the world's largest amt of lithium

Latin America is the region of the world with the largest amount of lithium. Its so-called Lithium Triangle will inevitably become the nexus for the coveted mineral, which is often referred to as “white gold.” The Lithium Triangle is a lithium-rich region in the Andean southwest corner of South America, spanning the borders of Argentina, Bolivia, and Chile and forming a geographic triangle of lithium resources underneath their salt flats. Approximately 58 percent of the world’s lithium resources are found in these three countries, according to the 2021 USGS Mineral Commodity Summary. https://www.csis.org/analysis/south-americas-lithium-triangle-opportunities-biden-administration

[ChazII]

51. +1 n/t

[aggiesal]

6. Disclosure: The company mining is Lithium America I purchased their stock ...

about 2 years ago and I've made about $3,000 so far.
If the stock reaches the projected price, I could walk away with close to $100,000.

I'm not writing to brag about it or to endorse. 2 Years ago, I read an article that said, invest is anything that will be used in electric cars.
I chose batteries. You could invest in Lidar if you want or sensors, doesn't matter.

Now, my reason for writing is this, environmentalists don't want cars to use gas/oil because it's bad for the environment.
Then they complain about how we access the materials to create cars that don't use gas/oil.
Honestly I don't know what they want.

If someone could explain it to me, I'd love to hear it.

[Effete Snob]

9. The explanation is pretty simple

https://michaelschneider.medium.com/if-you-want-to-save-the-world-dont-do-it-by-buying-an-electric-car-335ed6035a66

We need a future with fewer cars (electric or not) and much more public transit and bike usage. We need a complete rethink of how we use our public space, and better infrastructure so people can take short trips without using a car.

[aggiesal]

11. I agree, but the jobs are not near the housing to use bikes ...

Definitely need a better public transit system.
I lived in Europe, Berlin specifically and I used public transit often.
No where near the issues we see in our public transit system.

Singapore's public transit system is efficient and immaculate.

[Effete Snob]

13. Gosh I wonder how that happened

Last edited Tue Feb 21, 2023, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

There were a lot of deliberate decisions involved along the way.

[EX500rider]

46. Not to mention the land in that photo for the mine...

....looks like standard SW scrub land of which there is no shortage.

[womanofthehills]

48. It takes mega water and contaminates it

Scrub land is usually where there is not much water. So where will they get the water and who will suffer when they take their water?

[EX500rider]

49. I assume they have a source for what they need to mine there or they wouldn't build a mine nt

[Sgent]

60. This mine actually mines it

it doesn't use water extraction.

[womanofthehills]

63. But it does use water & they are fighting over water rights

In remote Nevada valley, race for more lithium comes down to water https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/in-remote-nevada-valley-a-race-for-more-lithium-comes-down-to-waterefbfbc

[jeffreyi]

19. Good.

This mine is crap. Essential sage grouse habitat, for one thing. Sage grouse are on the brink. We don't even recycle the Lithium that's out there already. Let's do that before extinctifying yet another species.

[mopinko]

37. this 👆

mine the landfills from the 80’s on. not sure when peak li battery consumption happened, but i’m pretty sure i threw away enough batteries to power a pick up truck, if not a semi.
how hard can it be?

mine the coal ash pits, too. low concentration, but in a slurry that should be a piece of cake to extract. maybe not worth the cost, but we need to do something w them.

[Sgent]

44. 100% recycling tommorrow

wouldn't come close to meeting our needs. Lithium usage is increasing exponentially. On the more lithium adopted the lower the chances of a Valdez or Deepwater Horizen which also effected endangered species.

[EX500rider]

50. I doubt a few acres of SW scrub switching to mining will make them extinct

Geographical distribution of the Sage Grouse:

[jeffreyi]

52. Their numbers have declined 80% since 1985.

https://wildlife.org/usgs-report-details-greater-sage-grouse-decline/#:~:text=Greater%20sage%2Dgrouse%20populations%20have,nearly%2040%25%20decline%20since%202002.

https://www.eenews.net/articles/sage-grouse-struggle-as-blm-and-states-search-for-answers/#:~:text=Sage%20grouse%20populations%20are%20dropping,bird%20depends%20upon%20for%20survival.

And the Thacker Pass mine area is not "sw scrub", it's diverse northern Big Sagebrush steppe, home not only for sage grouse, but myriad other creatures and plants and human culture as well. And it's not small. It's 18,000 acres. The largest shareholder in the mining company is Gangfeng Lithium, China. You can bet they don't give a rat's ass about our natural resources, or groundwater, or anything of that nature. This mining process is open pit, permanent destruction. And please tell me how these carbon belching operations save the planet from climate meltdown. Recycle the lithium that's clogging landfills as we speak. There are alternatives to lithium batteries out there, may they be developed soon. And the 1872 Mining Law/stupid land giveaway needs profound reform as well.

[EX500rider]

53. And what's more likely to make them go extinct

Losing that particular spot of habitat or global warming?
Building internal combustion cars also has emissions.
But once they're built electric cars will have less.

[jeffreyi]

54. Yep.

Destroy a village to "save" it. That worked out well. And electric cars will not stop global warming. A drastic reduction in consumption of all kinds, worldwide, but especially the rich nations, might help. I am not optimistic.

[inthewind21]

56. Um

There's no "village" in the middle of that dessert.

[The Jungle 1]

23. Follow the money. The oil companies are paying for this fight.

No doubt in my mind. I say this with no support for my claim.

[tinrobot]

34. I have the same suspicions.

[Crowman2009]

36. This is why we need more public transit and less spread out communities.

Otherwise it's just more raping of the land in one form or another.

[MichMan]

39. Not everyone lives in a densely populated city.

What are those in rural areas expected to do for mass transit?

I live 20 miles away from a city. As a 65 year old, will I need to ride a bicycle to go grocery shopping or to an appointment when it is 20 degrees outside? How will I transport all the groceries back home?

Or will it be like the days before Henry Ford put the common man on wheels? People spent their entire lifetimes within 15 miles from where they were born.

[Crowman2009]

45. I know that, and also I think that even if driving is one's only option in rural areas...

...they shouldn't have to drive that far to purchase basic neccessities. Due to the Wal-martization of american business people have to drive farther to the point where they have to drive an hour away to get groceries or have a prescription filled. Plus reducing urban traffic will keep needed supplies to rural ares from being blocked or delayed on the freeway.