US intelligence suggests pro-Ukrainian group sabotaged Nord Stream pipelines -NYT

[TheProle]

Source: Reuters

WASHINGTON, March 7 (Reuters) - New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, the New York Times reported on Tuesday.

There was no evidence that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials, the newspaper reported, citing U.S. officials.

Reuters could not independently verify the report, and U.S. officials could not be immediately reached for comment. Representatives for Kyiv and Moscow also could not be immediately reached.

The United States and NATO have called the September 2022 attacks on the gas pipelines "an act of sabotage," while Moscow has blamed the West and has called on the United Nations Security Council to independently investigate. Neither side has provided evidence.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-intelligence-suggests-pro-ukrainian-group-sabotaged-nord-stream-pipelines-nyt-2023-03-07/

[The Magistrate]

1. That's An Odd Headline, Sir

Intelligence reviewed by an agency is not intelligence produced by an agency.

Intelligence suggesting just about any damn thing is offered up for review every day, like cowpats in a pasture.

Not that it much matters: war is war, and the spectacle of an aggressor complaining he's been made to bleed his own blood is ludicrous.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

8. Yep. People read the headline...and are misled.

How would Ukrainians have the knowledge, technology and resources for such a mission…never mind maintain secrecy…without massive help from…we know who!

[The Magistrate]

10. Oh, I Expect They Could Manage It, Sir

Ukraine's armed forces seem to do all right.


Who may give them aid in driving Russia out is a matter of utter indifference to me.



"If Hitler invaded Hell, I should find occasion to speak a good word for the Prince of Darkness in the Commons."

[Alexander Of Assyria]

16. If it was Hitler versus Satan... it's a civil war, I would not aid or encourage either.

[The Magistrate]

17. It Is No Civil War, Dear

And besides, the idea no one should assist one side or another in a civil war is patent nonesense. The triumph of one side in such a conflict may be in the best interests of another state, the triumph of one side in such a conflict may be such an affront to human decency as to require either action against it, or abandonment of any claim to moral character by the government refraining from such action. There is nothing in the situation remotely analogous to, say, a married couple in a public shouting match who turn as one against an intervenor with a resounding 'Mind yer own damn business'. Not even the old customary law of nations forbids or discourages intervention in a civil war.

There are two simple questions in this matter:

One: Would victory for the Kremlin be an affront to human decency?

Two: Is defeat of the Kremlin in the interests of the United States and of the European Union?

Opposition to support for Ukraine, support and apologias and general pifflings about in support of the Kremlin, can only be engaged in by someone who answers one or both of these questions with a resounding No!

[Alexander Of Assyria]

20. You misunderstand. My response was in response to the unattributed quote about hell and Hitler.

[The Magistrate]

21. I Favor Mister Churchill, Sir

And it was his response when questioned over sending aid to Stalin once Barbarossa was commenced.

It's largely forgotten nowadays, but owing to the Hitler-Stalin Pact and the evident value of Soviet resources to Nazi Germany, in the first months subsequent to Hitler's invasion of Poland, both England and France spent a good deal of effort figuring out ways by which they might assail the Soviet Union rather than Nazi Germany. The Baku oil field was one contemplated target, the Arctic ports of Murmansk and Archangel were another: both would renew lines pressed by the Allies in support of the Whites in the Russian Civil War. During which five colonized nations, Poland, Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia, secured independence from Moscow's rule, in all instances with support from western Europe, and one colonized nation, Ukraine, made the attempt and suffered bloody defeat despite support by England and France. Which defeat was followed by a program of extermination. People today in late middle age had grandparents who lived through it.

[The Magistrate]

22. On Second Reading I Take Your Meaning, Sir

Though still I expect I'd take Satan's side in the quarrel.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

23. I would get some popcorn and watch from the box seats! On this I disagree with Churchill.

How dare I, I know!

[The Magistrate]

24. I'm Fond Of The Old Reprobate, Sir

He was at the time the right man in the right place, and he was fit for no other when or where.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

25. No dissent here, but some of the great man's pithy comments were more pithy than serious.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

13. ....

Alexander Of Assyria (4,385 posts)

8. Yep. People read the headline...and are misled.

How would Ukrainians have the knowledge, technology and resources for such a mission…never mind maintain secrecy…without massive help from…we know who!

We do?
Why don't you tell us how "we know who!", although I suspect I already know who you're referring to, and it ain't China or Russia.

[The Magistrate]

18. Indeed, Sir

Hints and mystery oughtn't be quite so plain as day. The nearest to concealment that formulation offers is some question whether it is the CIA or 'da Joos' referenced, or whether these two are conceived to blend into one....

[ImNotGod]

2. It would have to be a sophisticated group, well equipped, well financed and trained and

known to any intelligence agency worth its salt. They must know who it is

[Alexander Of Assyria]

9. They do. It's a mirror image.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

14. Prove it. nt

[LymphocyteLover]

3. all is fair in love and war, if true

certainly this makes sense

[FredGarvin]

4. Ukrainian Submarines

Sure, Jan.

[EX500rider]

5. Ukrainian SEAL Teams working in the Baltic seems unlikely.

If they were that good they already would have attached limpet mines to all Russian Navy vessels in the Black Sea and brought down the Kerch bridge permanently.

[FredGarvin]

6. No shit huh?

The proposition that the Ukrainian frogmen somehow laid explosives 300 feet beneath the sea is just plain silly.

[Maraya1969]

7. Wrong explosion. This was from a year or two ago

[Warpy]

11. Again, they had little motive and doubtful means

The nation with both was Russia, who certainly had the means and their motive was to freeze central Europe this winter. Plus, it's well within the character of the present leadership to cut off their noses to spite their faces. In addition, their posturing and screaming about the evil west being responsible lends credence to their own guilt, as the thing they're best at is lying.

[TexasTowelie]

12. An aide for President Zelenskyy denies any involvement by Ukraine.

https://democraticunderground.com/1017810807

[TomWilm]

15. Here is the full article from The New York Times

The New York Times: "Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say"

Point is that such an attack is not as complicated, as Seymour Hersh and others has stipulated, Even the private Danish submarine could have done it - without anybody detecting it. So, an independent group is most probably the culprit behind this mess. Might be a coalition of diving friends from many countries...

[The Magistrate]

19. 'Possible' And 'Probable', Sir, Are Different Words For A Reason

To quote the redoubtable Mr. Twain:


"The difference between the right word and the wrong one is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug."