Biden says he thinks he has authority to use 14th Amendment on debt ceiling

[Galraedia]

Source: The Hill

President Biden on Sunday said he believes he has the authority to use the 14th Amendment to unilaterally address the debt ceiling, but he acknowledged potential legal challenges could still lead the nation to default if he went that route.

“I’m looking at the 14th Amendment as to whether or not we have the authority — I think we have the authority,” Biden told reporters at a press conference in Hiroshima, Japan. “The question is, could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed, and as a consequence past the date in question and still default on the debt. That is a question that I think is unresolved.”

Biden added that all four congressional leaders said in a recent White House meeting that they agreed the nation would not default, signaling that he hoped talk of the 14th Amendment would ultimately not be necessary.

“So I’m assuming that we mean what we say and we’ll figure out a way to not have to default,” Biden said.

Read more: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4014068-biden-says-he-thinks-he-has-authority-to-use-14th-amendment-on-debt-ceiling/

[JohnSJ]

1. The republicans want a default. Do the discharge petition, and if that fails then the 14th amendmen

It is really tiresome this republican default hostage bullsh@t

[liberalmediaaddict]

6. Agree 100%

The MAGA sedition caucus is never going to agree to a debt ceiling bill.

They'll drag this out forever.

[JohnSJ]

10. Exactly

[Roy Rolling]

40. Joe has decades of experience

He spent years in Congress, he knows how to handle them.

[sprinkleeninow]

11. ...

✔ 💯%

[agingdem]

37. in the meantime, Joe calms the markets, reassures our allies, and

sends Kevin a not so subtle message..Fuck you and the MAGA horse you rode in on..

[Lovie777]

2. I think President Biden knows what he is doing..................

[Midnight Writer]

5. I do, too. A brushback pitch the day before he "negotiates" with McCarthy.

Biden is bending over backward to appear reasonable, while letting the Republicans kick and scream and throw petty tantrums.

Every unreasonable proposal made by McCarthy and the MAGA caucus stands in sharp contrast to the normalcy and stability of Biden's leadership.

The best solution is a clean bill and legislative approval. But if that is not possible (and it may not be), then make sure the blame rests squarely at the feet of the childish Republicans.

[Pacifist Patriot]

3. Calling on any DU constitutional scholars. Sincere question here from a non-lawyer/legal scholar.

I saw someone comment on another website that court challenges would take forever so we'd be right back where we started at a stale mate as the case(s) wend there way up to the Supreme Court.

I'm vaguely familiar (not nearly enough) with the concept of judicial review.

Is this something that would fast track with the Supreme Court and get decided relatively quickly or is there a lot of stuff I'm completely ignorant about (and probably shouldn't be) that would require a lawsuit to eventually settle?

Goodness I hate that I'm so blind here.

[Novara]

9. I don't know the legal ramifications but I do know the Rs will challenge anything Biden does

If he invokes the 14th, I am guessing he will immediately be sued. Then it may be up to a judge to place an injunction - or not. Since it's never been done before, there is no precedent. A judge may agree with Biden and keep us from default. Or a judge may say he doesn't have the authority to invoke the 14th and we're in default. Then the whole thing will play out in the courts. In the meantime, will federal employees get paid? Will social security recipients get their checks? Will the stock market crash? What happens to business conducted with other countries in the meantime?

To me, "the validity of the public debt ... shall not be questioned" seems to give him Constitutional protection. But we have so many corrupt judges, it's a crap-shoot. Judges (like Kacsmaryk) are making shit up as they co along.

It's a good question.

[melm00se]

15. It is not as simple saying President Biden has "Constitutional protection"

the 14th Amendment states "the validity of the public debt ... shall not be questioned". Which IS pretty clear but, meanwhile, Article I § 8 and 9 states that Congress is the branch of the government to make laws, pay debts and borrow money.

Ideologies and personalities aside:

- Which is the superior claim?
- Would President Biden be "borrowing money" if he invokes this particular clause within the 14th Amendment? Does this make him taking a power that the Executive Branch does not have?
- Can the Executive Branch grab a power which, constitutionally, is not theirs? (If this allowed to happen, the precedent has now been set and what happens the next time a president, say a Republican, crosses and grabs another power from a separate branch of the government?).

[PAMod]

17. Congress already passed the spending in question,

As well as the taxation.

So, the question is - is any subsequent accrued debt implied?

[melm00se]

18. If there must be a vote

to raise the debt ceiling (legislation and a debt instrument) then this falls under the powers of the Legislative Branch.

[PAMod]

48. Perhaps the law requiring such a vote is unconstitutional .

Sure would be nice to find out.

Maybe now is the time.

[IbogaProject]

30. The legislative power isn't absolute

The budgetary process follows a process, Congress & The Senate pass legislation the the President decides whether to sign. I would argue as long as they merely print dollars or mint some high value reserve coinage to meet these current obligation the Executive could argue against much of anyone even having standing to argue. The DC Circuit Court may not be willing to issue an injunction even if they would hear a challenge. It comes down to whether the SC would issue an injunction to prevent those moves continuing. The power to mint Platinum coinage of any denomination for any reason was given to the Secretary of The Treasury by Congress in 1997. So it looks like we can invoke that and use the 14th admendment as a backstop. Next up will be the budget showdown for the one more pre 2024 election budget.
Here is an article which includes an interview with the mint-the-coin idea creator. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/22711346/trillion-dollar-coin-mintthecoin-debt-ceiling-beowulf

[bluestarone]

28. These traitors will surely pick their favorite judge and appeals court (5th circut, i'm sure)

Our loaded SC will have to decide, a free America or Russian America. (just like the abortion medicine problem)

[IbogaProject]

32. I think the DC Circuit is the only Venue for this

Unless the Supreme Court has some kind of Origional Juristriction over this. A lot of the cases involving challenges to executive power come under the DC Federal Circuit Court.

[mopinko]

16. not a scholar, but

if tfg can get scotus to rule in a matter of days on his stupid election cases, they can rule on this as an emergency.

[ancianita]

20. This case would be fast tracked by SCOTUS on its shadow docket, IF SCOTUS were even

willing to hear the case if it were bumped up from the Appellate, which I don't think it would.

Not a lawyer, but I'll give it a shot based on what I've learned over time.

1. Top constitutional lawyer, Laurence Tribe, says that constitutionally NO ENTITIES HAVE COURT STANDING AGAINST THE PRESIDENT.

But for the sake of weird chance, Biden's concern about a lawsuit comes true, and rethugs file suit in court as soon he does his DUTY and invokes Section 4 of the 14th.

2. Even if a conservative court (there aren't any in DC) does not dismiss their suit on constitutional grounds, which it won't, Biden's DOJ still has all the documented evidence -- obtained from congressional meetings and negotiations -- to prove that rethugs' positions added up to "questioning" (per the 14th) of the very debt they incurred, which "shall not be questioned."


Right there the resolved question ends trumpcult political games. The appellate court's ruling now stands as precedent against any future congressional bullshit refusals to pay future debt.
Rethugs may try new tacks, but the 14th's "shall not be questioned" section overrides any new tricks, as well. And no court will take any further suits.

3. Which is why Biden could officially say in Hiroshima today, that rethugs have backtracked and literally said they will not default.

[Pacifist Patriot]

27. Thank you!

[Novara]

42. If it is litigated, we've seen precedent does not matter to this SCOTUS

They do not toss out clear violations of law and they ignore long-standing precedent and indeed are slathering to make their own backwards precedents.

And if we get this far and Biden does invoke the 14th (I do think it will come to this), the Rs in Congress will impeach him for exceeding his authority or some other such bullshit. Nevermind that he DOES have the Constitutional high ground here. Nevermind that Congress appropriated the money via legislation and now they are reneging. Nevermind that THEY are questioning the public debt (which THEY appropriated). They will impeach him over this. At least they will try.

Janet Yellen is right - this will be a Constitutional crisis But not simply having to go the route of the 14th amendment, but because of what the Rs will do when it happens.

[ancianita]

44. Okay, yes, we've seen that.

These are fair points about SCOTUS and rethug conservatives, politically.
Re impeachment, though, for a House to begin impeachment investigations will lead to another nothingburger. At best. However.

No Congress can impeach a president for following due process and doing his constitutional duty. Duty is the word constitutional scholar Laurence Tribe said is the core legality behind "SHALL NOT be questioned." Tribe also stated that no entity has court standing against a president who follows Section 4 of the 14th.

If they try they'll fail. I bet it won't pass the House; that one or more rethugs won't vote for it.

[Novara]

45. Sure they'll fail. But they will try anyway.

I'm not so sure that every single R won't toe the line and vote to impeach him even though they know impeachment will fail. I don't think moderate Rs exist anymore. Further, I think the idea of being able to say Biden has been impeached - even if he isn't convicted - in 2024 is too tempting. After all, we did it to their guy.

We're more than two years in and they're itching to find something they can impeach him on, just to get back at Dems. This would give them their chance. They won't pass it up.

I have learned to never, ever have faith that there's a reasonable republican anywhere who will do the right thing. Imagining they exist is contrary to what we've seen since 2016. Counting on the possibility is pure folly.

[ancianita]

46. Sure they'll try anyway. But they'll fail.

They do what their own/donors demand they do -- grind their agenda out.

[LonePirate]

4. Then use it. Dispense with these demoralizing and pointless negotiations. Put an end to this mess.

[Grins]

8. Yes! Use it! Pull the damn trigger!

Let’s see if Republicans dare to challenge it in court so the country defaults. The action would shine a Klieg light on Republican perfidy, and give Biden and Democrats a Thor’s Hammer to pound Republicans into next year and beyond.

Imagine going before the court and arguing after reading the 14th Amendment:

“I know a few of you are Scalia “Constitutional Originalists,” now let’s see if you really are…!”

The other point that could be brought up is conservative’s belief that a U.S. president is an all-powerful “unitary executive” and can do anything he damn well pleases in running the government. Let’s test their belief in that!

[area51]

25. +1 n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

7. I want him to just do it

Had lunch with two girlfriends today - 50's never married - no kids.

I'm married- no kids.

We are near the finish line. Our retirement accounts are all we have to rely on when we are older.

The anxiety is paralyzing.

[KS Toronado]

12. President Biden

Don't give them one thing they want to cut Government spending!

[IbogaProject]

33. Pick some of the previous Tax Cuts

Joe should refuse anything but repealing the 2017 cuts, maybe even more previous Tax Cuts the top 2% abuse. Throw the ball to the GOP "The GOP don't want to honor those tax cuts, they want middle and poor America to pay for it".

[Gaugamela]

13. As a stopgap Biden should instruct the treasury to secretly mint a couple trillion-dollar

coins and hold them in reserve. If the 14th amendment angle gets hung up in the courts, he can produce the coins and go on live TV to explain the situation to the country. The Republicans will try to spin it against him, but I think it would make great content for campaign commercials. Just keep hitting over and over how the republicans tried to destroy jobs, the dollar and the economy and the full faith and credit of the United States just to win an election, and how Biden won the day. He would come out looking like FDR, as long as they do the PR blitz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion-dollar_coin

[IbogaProject]

34. Yes

You have said very clear. It will be mostly a Public Relations battle. Make them look like the whiny uptight weakling bullies they are.

[peppertree]

14. He may have to

You can't negotiate with terrorists - least of all those for whom the whole point, is shooting the hostage.

[Walleye]

19. Don't know why, but I have faith that Joe Biden will not let us miss our Social Security checks

Whatever it takes. He knows that would be catastrophic for tens of millions of people

[Mblaze]

21. I can't imagine

That such an important matter would go the slow appeal route. SCOTUS must do its job.

[honest.abe]

22. Biden clearly points out that even if he did it might take too long to implement.

That's the big question.

[yaesu]

23. That is a much clearer statement about using the 14th, clarity goes along way

when talking about what is and isn't possible.

[keithbvadu2]

24. Declare a national emergency. Trump was all eager to make them.

Declare a national emergency. Trump was all eager to make them.

14th Amendment

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-14/#Section%201

[elocs]

26. "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law...shall not be questioned".

When quoting the 14th Amendment in regards to the debt ceiling, why does nearly everyone leave out the "authorized by law" clause?
I don't think this is the easy-peasy answer to the debt ceiling that so many think it is. And if the 14th Amendment is Biden's ace in the hole he certainly wouldn't use it until he absolutely needs to use it.
The Supreme Court, this Supreme, will have the final word about this for better or worse and we know how much trust we have in the Supreme Court here.

Those who celebrate last, celebrate best so let's not do it until we truly have a reason to celebrate.

[Galraedia]

29. Congress has already authorized by law the money spent and republicans are refusing to pay the debt

The debt ceiling isn't about authorizing by law any new spending, it's about paying back the debt congress had already agreed to spend.

[elocs]

35. Then why is "by law" always left out of the 14th Amendment quotes?

In the end, the Supreme Court will decide this no matter if we like it or not.

[Novara]

47. Yep. I bought a car last year. It would be the same as me ...

... telling the bank that they must reduce my monthly payment, and telling them I won't make any payments until they do so. It's a debt I willingly and legally incurred myself and I had been paying monthly on time until now. But suddenly I'll tell the bank that I won't make any more payments until they renegotiate my monthly payment by cutting how much I have to pay?

And then telling them they have to make up the difference by making poor people pay more on their car payments? To make up for the debt I just decided I wasn't going to pay?

That isn't how any of this works.

[JohnSJ]

31. You are dealing with a party willing to bring down th US government. There is no compromise with

garbage like that

Do the discharge petition vote and if it fall the 14th amendment, and let the chops fall where they will

[Martin68]

36. To all the nay-sayers out there, this is a powerful tactic, if nothing else. If McCarthy et al

believe Biden could act on this, they might be willing to negotiate a better deal to call off their threat to bring down the US economy. If not it could hold off a debt default until the Supreme Court rules on the issue. Is SCOTUS willing to take responsibility for a debt default? if they do, it could be their death knell. The aftermath of a debt default could turn conservatives, independent and everybody but MAGAt hardcores against the GOP and the Court.

[NowsTheTime]

38. Agree, is Supreme Court willing to take responsibility for a debt default based on their decision?

...as much as I do not trust them, I think it would might be difficult for them to rule in this manner.

...but they might try to create some end around action the likes of which I do not have foresight to predict...(perhaps invoking some 14th century precedent...tongue in cheek)

[usonian]

39. K&R

Old (and new) GOP tactic:

• Kick the Coke can down the road
• Let someone else take the blame (for what's on that Coke can?)

??????

[Emile]

41. You don't negotiate with a gun to your head. Hopefully Joe if need be will

use the 14th amendment.

[FBaggins]

43. In politics you do indeed

In fact, it's often the only time that they do.

The debt ceiling for the last few decades has largely been used as that gun to force the two sides to the table.

I take the statement in the OP as less of a claim to what the president's experts actually believe and more as a claim of "I have an even bigger gun if you make me use it!" whether it's actually loaded or not.