2 planes aborted landings in San Francisco when a Southwest jet taxied across their runways

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

an hour ago

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Two airliners aborted landings at San Francisco International Airport last week after pilots spotted a Southwest Airlines jet taxiing across runways on which the other planes had been cleared to land.

An air traffic controller told the Southwest pilots they should not have been on the runways during the May 19 incident.

The Federal Aviation Administration said Thursday that the Southwest plane cleared the runways when the other planes passed directly overhead, and the decision to abort the landings was “precautionary.”

“The FAA looked into the events and determined the appropriate steps were taken to ensure safe operations,” the agency said.




Read more: https://apnews.com/article/airplanes-close-call-san-francisco-southwest-ec9df0e1a2ff8038992c4d152d8b2449

[deurbano]

1. Yikes!

[Marthe48]

2. Harrowing

Everybody needs to slow down and make sure the details are laid out and everyone knows what's going on.

[DENVERPOPS]

3. from article

I was not sure if Air Traffic Controllers were at fault, or SWest pilot.

ATC is extremely overworked right now, not the kind of thing that is good for such a high pressure, stressful job. They have a shortage of 30% ATC workers......and people should know that it takes THREE YEARS of training to be an ATC...........

The last time it was this FUBAR was when Reagan canned half of the Air Traffic Controllers in the early 80's......

[Marthe48]

4. Yep

After that union breaking effort, I will never, ever vote for an r again ever, and my opinion of r's is even more negative as time goes on.

[DENVERPOPS]

9. The pilots at the time

all told me they were frightened to death in the years afterwards............Which ever pilot wasn't flying the plane, was not watching the instruments as they normally did, but non stop watching the sky for fear of another aircraft flying into them............
When they were delayed, it was due to newly hired poor quality controllers, and the separation was needed to be increased between planes causing delays. The pilot would tell the passengers, they were delayed due to "ATC". They were ordered to NEVER say "Air Traffic Control" delay because they didn't want the flying public to know WHO was responsible and most passengers didn't have any idea what an "ATC Delay" meant.

One pilot told me that there were countless "near misses" and "aborted landings" that were never reported.......

Within one week after firing all the PATCO union employees, an even bigger nightmare descended across the nation. Most corporations then knew that the NLRB would not be observing any rules and regulations being enforced by Reagan's NLRB regulators........

The Denver Electrical Union was crashed the next week. None of the Electrical Corporations observed union contracts. And all unions across the nation were also destroyed..... A friend who was a journeyman electrician in Denver said they were all "fired" and needed to be "re-hired" if they wanted to accept the new pay schedule.
He was earning 22 and hour and 26% fringe benefits the week before Reagan's PATCO firings, and the next week, if they wanted to go back to work, they were offered 12 an hour and ZERO fringe benefits. It took 15 YEARS for the Journeymen Electricians to get back to the 22 per hour, with less fringe benefits...The profound effect was the massive destruction of the Middle Class..........

Of course Reagan's brain was already going when he was corruptly "installed" as president, and HWBush and his Cronies ran everything for eight years.
The Reagan years, (not really the Reagan administration,) was one corrupt act after another, with countless acts of treason.......
That was when I became politically involved, screaming from the roof tops at what I saw happening, including how HW and cronies had committed TREASON to corruptly install Reagan. Then screaming at every new corrupt and treasonous actsby HW and the Republicans. The so-called "Reagan Democrat" voters told me to get off my soap box and fanaticism.................

[Marthe48]

11. I wasn't aware then

I bought the bs about Jimmy Carter, and voted for reagan the 1st time. Last time ever. My husband was in the steel workers union, and he got laid off for 2 months as soon as the r's took over.

Nothing has gotten better. The same fascists who ran reagan and bush and bush and traitor are still pulling behind the scenes strings, and driving the country right over a cliff. :/

[DENVERPOPS]

13. Bingo

you know what bothered me the most about Jimmy Carter/Reagan presidential election???????

They were always bragging about HW, being a "military hero"..........and how Jimmy Carter was a back woods peanut farmer......

Jimmy Carter's Military History was being qualified as a Nuclear Armed Sub Commander........A position that requires supreme intelligence, and probably more knowledge of the military than any other job in the Military.......

I had the privilege of sitting with Carter for a half hour chat about some of the things he was spearheading since leaving the presidency.
He is one, if not the, finest human beings I have ever met. He is sincere and earnest with everything he says..... I laugh when politicians and voters claim they are religious, as if it compares to the truly religious people like Jimmy Carter..........

And I laugh at how many of the "religious" and "evangelicals" worship Trump and condone his purely immoral behavior.........
go figure..................

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

19. Why do so many of you qualify "religious" and "evangelicals"

With quotes, as if they aren't what they say they are?

When they are?

It's extremely dishonest, and bigoted to boot. You're making it sound like these people are pretending to be christian while actually being not-christian. I guess it's easier to say they're not-christians because only not-christians could be so immoral as to pretend to be a religion they're not, amirite?

That's why this use of quotes around terms and flinging around "fake" and "not real/true" accusations are as toxic as they are bigoted and stupid. So very bloody stupid. We not-christians are sick of being blamed for the awful things christians do all on their own--and that they learned from the religion, not from us.

Maybe other people don't notice the hate and bigotry spewing when this blame-shift happens, but I do.

And I don't let it go unremarked. Not now. Not ever.

[Major Nikon]

6. My initial impression is that it's pilot error

This could be completely wrong, but it sounds as if the SWA jet was taxiing across a second runway. A controller will only clear you to cross one runway at a time. So my guess is the clearance was to cross one runway and the pilot was crossing a 2nd parallel runway without clearance.

[DENVERPOPS]

10. Have you watched the series on the Smithsonian channel

named "Air Disasters"???????????

Most crashes are proven by the NTSB to either be pilot error, (often due to under-training of pilots), or Airlines cutting corners on maintenance.

Some are the Manufacturer's cutting corners and crashes caused by the companies manufacturing design screw ups.

(Most recently, the Boeing 727-800 was justifiably grounded around the world for Boeing cutting corners for profits..........)

[Major Nikon]

12. I work as a professional pilot

So I'm studying NTSB reports and soaking in other information about things that went wrong to try and learn from it.

Flying in and out of a busy airport requires a lot of vigilance, including ground operations. It's very easy to get your priorities out of arrangement. Not all pilots know ATC will never clear you to cross more than one runway and part of that problem is it wasn't that long ago when they would. So it's important to know what has changed so you can expect the next clearance you'll get and be prepared for it. ATC also requires you to read back all runway hold short instructions, so the analysis of this one will be interesting.

[DENVERPOPS]

20. I am sure that pilot

got a transmission from ATC: "Possible Pilot Deviation, stand by to take down a phone number".......runway incursion......

[Major Nikon]

22. Possibly, but there's no way it gets forwarded to FSDO for action

I'm sure it didn't take ATC management very long to figure out what really happened.

[GreenWave]

5. So the abortion saved lives eh?

Paying attention GQP?

[COL Mustard]

7. That sounds like a "whoopsie" to me.

Could have been a lot worse, should not have happened.

[Cherokee100]

8. I bet

I bet it was the 'computers fault' (sarcasm), not the pilots.. I worked in ATC, many years ago in the military, it all comes down to the pilots.

[Major Nikon]

14. Here's the audio and recreation

The SWA flight received clearance to cross 28L and line up and wait on 28R. They were slow to cross 28L (not a pilot deviation, but bad form). While crossing they received takeoff clearance, but the transmission was blocked and they communicated that to ATC. Since they were still on the runway, the Alaska Air flight had to abort landing.

There's really two things going on here. Once is the SWA flight was slow to taxi across 28L, and at a busy airport you just can't do that, but there isn't much they can hold against you if you do. In their defense the runways at SFO are close together so you really can't go all that fast since you need to make an immediate turn onto the other runway and you can't do that at full taxi speed. So they could have gone a bit faster, but I don't think it would have made any difference to the outcome had they done so.

The much bigger problems are how the controller handled all of this. She should have never allowed the SWA flight to start taxing with another aircraft so close to landing on 28L. That was almost certain to not work even if they had taxied faster. They have to be completely clear of the runway until the tail of the aircraft is past the opposite hold short line before the other aircraft can land. There was almost no way to pull that off.

Next, the Alaska Air flight landing was never going to work. There's always a short delay from when takeoff clearance is received and the takeoff roll commences because the final takeoff checklist has to be completed. That's why they will often give you the "line up and wait" clearance. This allows any aircraft crossing or otherwise on the takeoff runway to completely clear and gives the flight crew time to complete their takeoff checks. That way they can launch immediately when cleared to make room for the next aircraft.

I'm going to revise my previous initial impression and say this was 100% controller error and a pretty bad one at that.

[tonekat]

18. I appreciate the detailed description

From your pilot's point of view. Lots of moving parts that need to be paid attention to.

[Snooper9]

15. SouthWest is the Swift Trucking Company of the skies

LOL

[Wonder Why]

16. "Two to one, they make it accross before the other planes land."

"Nah, we're underpaid. I can't afford those odds".

[Mark.b2]

21. I stopped flying them after a couple times...

I know a few folks that love them, but they all fly infrequently and only for pleasure. I hate the the cattle-call boarding process they used and the mostly unassigned seating.

Give me my status, group boarding, occasional upgrades, and free alcohol anyday!

[Rocknation]

17. My flight landed without incident and was taxiing, but the pilot had to slam on the brakes

Last edited Mon Jun 12, 2023, 11:38 AM - Edit history (4)

and explain to us that there was already a plane in the gate to which we had been directed.


Rocknation

[Oneironaut]

23. "I'm gonna give you a number to call" - A pilot's worst nightmare.

This was probably a misheard ATC instruction. It sadly happens, but, luckily it didn’t cause an accident.

Edit: Major Nikons post above provides context. Ignore my comment above. 😀