US to supply Ukraine with cluster bombs for first time

[Jose Garcia]

Source: Financial Times

The US will supply Ukraine with cluster munitions for the first time after President Joe Biden approved the move as part of a new military aid package, US officials familiar with the decision said on Friday. 

The move to send cluster munitions, which are banned by many countries, comes as Washington and western allies try to boost Ukraine’s counteroffensive and help its forces regain occupied Russian territory. The package is set to be announced ahead of next week’s Nato summit in Lithuania.

Both Russia and Ukraine have already been using the munitions in the conflict after retaining Soviet-era stockpiles, but Moscow has used them to especially devastating effect, including against civilian targets. The Ukrainian military has deployed them mainly to clear Russian defences.

The US weapons will be the first time Kyiv has received cluster munitions from a western partner. The White House and the Pentagon declined to comment.


Read more: https://www.ft.com/content/f4955a0b-52fd-4f1b-8d69-bb0d4367c1aa

[Snackshack]

1. It is devastating how.

we have spent so much time and resources ending life...

I don't know what this is or why. I have no memories of the past 13.8 billion years, it appears they were productive years. Then around 55 yrs ago I got pulled out of the void and put into this body. When you really start to think about all that had to take place for that to happen to spend this time doing nothing but trying to kill others is a terrible waste of a unique gift.

[Bayard]

2. Awwww.... nuts

[Kennah]

3. War is hell

[paleotn]

13. "You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it"

William Tecumseh Sherman. His point was the best you can do for all involved is bring enough force to bear to end it as quickly as possible. A prolonged, "humane" war costs more lives in the long run.

[johndenny251]

4. ok

Kyiv says it will use contentious munitions mainly to clear Russian defensive lines

[blue-wave]

24. Yes, they need these munitions

to clear the 3 lines of deeply dug-in Russian trench lines. The Ukrainians have to breach 3 trench lines and countless mine fields all the while attempting to dodge Russian phosphorus bombs and Russian cluster bombs that have a 30-40% "dud" rate. Our dud rate is 2.5% MAX. Let the Ukrainians clear the trenches and win.

[BlueWavePsych]

5. ClusterF*ck them ruskies

[hueymahl]

25. Peace, not war

[link:

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[roamer65]

36. No to appeasement of Putler.

[IronLionZion]

6. The US killed a lot of children in Iraq with those weapons

they're pretty nasty when dropped in civilian areas and then some time later a kid stumbles upon some unexploded ordinance and it explodes.

I would hope this is the last war that uses them.

[Brother Buzz]

7. Something to consider

I assume the Ukrainian army will only be using them in the battlefields, the same battlefields that the Russians have planted with an untold number of anti personnel mines; after the smoke clears, the entire place will be scoured to remove them. Plus, to my knowledge, there are no children even close to the battlefield.

[IronLionZion]

9. I hope so

and I hope this is all over soon

[Xolodno]

14. Battlefields can also be farms and bombed out cities.

And it costs a fortune to clear them out, the area will be a no mans land for years if not a decade. And there is still no guarantee you will get them all, so a farmer or some kids playing could still stumble on them. With mines, they mark the GPS coordinates for the areas you placed them, so you don't go blowing your self up should the tide of battle change. With cluster munitions, you can't do that, well at least not very well.

But wait, there's more! Areas you hit can kill your own soldiers as they don't know where these things landed either. Nail some Russian troops in a forest, bombed out town, etc. go in to take it when they retreat and boom. I believe its one of the reasons they stopped using them in Iraq and Afghanistan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/magazine/cluster-munitions-history.html

For service members outside the bomb-disposal community, finding information on how to identify unexploded submunitions and details about the particular risks they pose has become a tedious scavenger hunt, if they even know to look for that information in the first place.

As for Crick, he returned to the United States after the war. The BLU-97s’ detonation in a ring of soldiers was among the most lethal battlefield incidents for Americans in the Persian Gulf war, and he dwelled on it upon arriving home. Former members of his unit recall that Crick had a history of heavy drinking, and by 1992 his marriage had unraveled, he was facing reprimand from his command for threatening his wife and he was probably going to be denied re-enlistment. In March 1992, dressed in a pressed uniform and polished boots, he shot himself in the basement of his Michigan home. He was 29, silenced by his own hand. His log book from As Salman, the first wartime record of the BLU-97’s lethal flaws, lives on.

[Kennah]

39. US Soldiers and Marines killed a lotta children in Iraq with rifles

[IronLionZion]

41. Depleted uranium ammunition has been a public health disaster

Plenty were killed by missiles and bombs.

[Kennah]

42. Since 1991

[Historic NY]

8. Russia has been targeting civilians since the start.....

they now will experience hell. If the army wants to die for Putin Ukraine can make that accommodation. They have dug themselves into holes in the ground if limited use gets them to surrender so be it.

[roamer65]

10. Fully support our President on this decision.

💯 percent.

[Kaleva]

11. +1

[hueymahl]

26. Peace, not war

[link:

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[womanofthehills]

30. Bad decision -Cluster bombs kill children

“Cluster bombs, dropped by air or fired by artillery, scatter hundreds of bomblets across a wide area which sometimes fail to explode and are difficult to locate and remove, killing and maiming civilians long after conflicts end.

They pose a particular risk to children who can be attracted by their toy-like appearance and bright colors.

In 2015, cluster bombs killed 417 people, more than a third of them children, the Cluster Munition Coalition said, adding that the actual number of casualties was likely to be much higher.” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-arms-clusterbombs-idUSKCN1173YY

[BeyondGeography]

35. Russia steals Ukrainian children

In addition to killing them regularly since Feb. 2022. Did you post in those threads?

[paleotn]

12. From a civilian standpoint, this changes the situation on the ground 0%

Russians have been firing cluster munitions all over the place throughout the war. Secondly, they're damn effective against entrenched infantry and armor.

[former9thward]

17. These will kill civilians long after the Ukraine-Russian war is over.

That is why most nations of the world consider it a war crime and why they voted to outlaw them. The U.S. and Russia did not vote to outlaw them but that does not mean it is not a war crime.

[hueymahl]

27. 100%

[Elessar Zappa]

31. Are you accusing the Biden administration of supporting war crimes?

[TomSlick]

33. You were asked a reasonable. Are you accusing President Biden of a war crime?

Please clarify your position.

[Xolodno]

15. Just an FYI....Ukraine has used cluster munitions before.

From their stockpiles of Soviet Weapons.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions

[purr-rat beauty]

16. unexploded bomblets kill long after the conflict

I am not for this idea

but then again....I am not for war

[mpcamb]

18. Has anyone who has lost limbs to cluster bombs been asked for an opinion?

This is weapon the civilized world has banned.
What the hell are we doing??

[hueymahl]

28. Boggles the mind

So disappointed

[prodigitalson]

43. You mean like Ukrainians?

[dalton99a]

21. Whatever it takes to kill as many invaders as possible

short of chemical and nuclear weapons

[hueymahl]

29. Peace, not war

[link:

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[Jose Garcia]

37. What happens when the other side doesn't want peace?

[sarisataka]

44. I recall a quote

But forget the source and exact words. As I recall it said -

War is inevitable when one side desires it

[sakabatou]

22. I thought we outlawed those.

[jcmaine72]

23. We did.

But apparently it's okay now.

[Jose Garcia]

32. Yes, but the law allows the President to sign a waiver bypassing the restriction

[sakabatou]

34. I see

[NCjack]

38. Putin should be screaming bloody murder about Biden's decision.

Oh, wait -- Russian is using cluster bombs in Ukraine. Maybe a mutual agreement between the two to stop it? Not likely.

[Kennah]

40. Russia is already using cluster munitions with much, much higher dud rates

This will likely decrease the number of unexploded munitions. Artillery doesn't always explode, and the Ukrainians have fired a shit ton of it.