Schumer in talks with McConnell as shutdown fears grow: 'We may now have to go first'

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: CNN Politics

Updated 12:38 PM EDT, Fri September 22, 2023


CNN — Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer told CNN that his chamber might have to take matters in its own hands and push through a must-pass bill to fund the government amid deep divisions in the House and a looming shutdown by next weekend.

For weeks, Democratic and Republican senators have been watching the House with growing alarm as Speaker Kevin McCarthy has struggled to cobble together the votes to pass a short-term spending bill along party lines – all as he has resisted calls to cut a deal with Democrats to keep the government open until a longer-term deal can be reached. The initial plan: Let McCarthy get the votes to pass a bill first before the Senate changes it and sends it back to the House for a final round of votes and negotiations.

Now with House GOP leaders still struggling to get the votes ahead of the September 30 deadline, Schumer said he would try to cut a deal with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and send it to the House on the eve of a potential shutdown – all as he signaled he was pushing to include aid to Ukraine as part of the package. “We may now have to go first … given the House,” Schumer told CNN in an interview in his office, moments before he took procedural steps to allow the Senate to take up a continuing resolution, or CR, as soon as next week.

“Leader McConnell and I are talking and we have a great deal of agreement on many parts of this. It’s never easy to get a big bill, a CR bill done, but I am very, very optimistic that McConnell and I can find a way and get a large number of votes both Democratic and Republican in the Senate.” If Schumer’s assessment is correct, that would leave McCarthy with a choice: Either ignore the Senate’s bill altogether or continue to try to pass his own bill in the narrowly divided House where he can only afford to lose four GOP members on any party-line vote.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/22/politics/chuck-schumer-senate-government-funding-tv/index.html

[BootinUp]

1. McCarthy!!!!!!!!!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

2. LOL

[Frasier Balzov]

3. How can the Senate go first?

I thought spending bills need to originate in the House.

[BumRushDaShow]

5. It's a neat trick that they do all the time (I have posted about it often)

They will take a bill that has already been passed by the House and sent to the Senate for consideration (whether it is the intended bill or some other related bill) and then they take their drafted language and once that version passes cloture, will then put up a motion to do an "Amendment as a Substitute" to the whatever House bill they are going to use, and basically wipe most of the House bill and replace it with their draft language in its entirety. Then assuming that passes the Senate, they will send it BACK to the House for consideration.

The House can then:

1.) Debate and vote on it "as is" in an up or down vote
2.) Seek to amend the amendment (requiring debate time and votes for each Amendment) and when done, vote on passage of the amended version to send BACK to the Senate
3.) Finally start getting serious and try to get some kind of "Joint" Conference together between the chambers with members from each working on some version that could pass both chambers, and then present THAT to their respective chambers for debate/vote "as is" (usually they'll try to come up with a Rule for no more Amendments or if they have any, they limit the number) and then the votes commence again.
4.) Ignore it and just let the government shut down while they work on whatever they were working on in all-nighters

[Frasier Balzov]

6. The Parliamentarian lets them get away with that?

Even if subject to regular order and markup?

I guess Chuck and Mitch know how to stretch the contraints.

[BumRushDaShow]

10. What is faulty with it?

They are taking a House bill, amending it (literally the whole thing) and then sending it back to the House.

PDF description of Amendments including what is dubbed a "Substitute Amendment" - https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/96-548

[Frasier Balzov]

15. If germaneness is a requirement for amendments to plainly budgetary measures

how does a bill on some random or trifling matter passed by the House justify the wholesale insertion of or substitution with vast swaths of the U.S. budget and not violate germaneness?

I know, I know. It has successfully been done before must the answer.

Quite a loophole this "invasion of the bill snatchers" loophole must be. Laid down somewhere.

[BumRushDaShow]

17. They usually find some kind of budgetary bill

For example, the House passed ONE - the National Defense Authorization Act - and sent it over to the Senate. It appears the Senate is doing just that - an "Amendment as a Substitute" for that one right now - https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2670/text

H.R.2670 - National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2024

Text: H.R.2670 — 118th Congress (2023-2024)

Shown Here:
Engrossed Amendment Senate (07/27/2023)


[Congressional Bills 118th Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
[H.R. 2670 Engrossed Amendment Senate (EAS)]




In the Senate of the United States,

July 27, 2023.
Resolved, That the bill from the House of Representatives (H.R.
2670) entitled ``An Act to authorize appropriations for fiscal year
2024 for military activities of the Department of Defense and for
military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of
Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year,
and for other purposes.'', do pass with the following

AMENDMENT:

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF CONTENTS.

(snip pages and pages of their replacement language)

So the above is one way they do it.

You will also see little funding bills that the House might pass as amendments to appropriations bills (where these don't "make the news" ), and those get sent to the Senate for consideration. The Senate may normally yawn and vote to send it to Committee but then that becomes available as a "vehicle" for something else...

Similarly the most common way is through the "Supplemental Appropriations" bills. So they grab one of those and then could add a huge Amendment on that as a rider, and then will send it back to the House to consider!

So many things ended up getting "passed" using the NDAA as a side note. The current minimum wage was added to the NDAA back in 2007 (and that was the last time the federal minimum wage was dealt with).

ETA, the Senate is apparently re-doing their site where they had the Riddick's Rules but I found they have them here (including PDFs) - https://www.riddick.gpo.gov/

(Amendments) https://riddick.gpo.gov/documents/Amendments.pdf
(Amendments between Houses) - https://riddick.gpo.gov/documents/Amendments%20Between%20Houses.pdf

(the Parliamentarian uses this for the Senate)

[Frasier Balzov]

19. I see. So germaneness is simply money to be spent anywhere.

It sounds more plausible now.

Thank you for helping me understand this better.

[BumRushDaShow]

20. You're welcome - CSPAN junkie here

who is a retired fed and watched many many markups and other shenanigans for my agency's appropriations bills for years... Also watched hearings so I knew what my "future workload" would be.

Got caught in the "Gingrich shutdown" of 1995 - 1996 where my agency actually was one of the few that had appropriations so when we went into the office (which was in a multi-department/agency government one), the building was literally empty except for a few other agencies that had been funded.

Similarly got caught in the 2013 "Green Eggs and Ham" shutdown and sat home for 17 days not permitted to even open the lid of my laptop.

Thankfully I retired 2 weeks after the 2017 inauguration of 45 and didn't have to deal with what were several more shutdowns including the longest in history - 35 days - late December 2018 until mid-January 2019.

[erronis]

26. Fascinating history. You have a book coming out soon?

I've worked with many in the federal government over 40 years who have had to deal with these shenanigans.

Most have rolled their eyes at the on-going (r)epuglicon antics but younger staffers really worry about their future stability.

Also interesting on which agencies/etc. are considered so vital as to be able to continue their missions - and which aren't considered as vital.

[BumRushDaShow]

28. I think because of the internet and social media

magnifying the partisanship antics, it's become more of a PITA. I served under 6 Presidents so they came and went and in some cases, that means your "mission" gets yanked around to and fro while you watch the GS-1000s come and go.

They usually prioritize those that deal with "health, safety, security" as "exceptions" to be required to work (without pay) and the rest get furloughed (no attempts to do so or you are an "unauthorized procurement" ), and of that former group, they sort of cherry-pic who is considered "critical".

But the one issue that they rarely talk about is that probably 1/2 of the government workforce are contractors and unless their Primes front them salary, they don't get paid during a shutdown and certainly don't get any back pay like feds have (so far) been able to get (although more and more, the GOP loons want to refuse any back pay for those who were furloughed).

[COL Mustard]

34. I'm a current Fed

I pay attention to parts of the NDAA and Defense Appropriations Acts each year, but I didn't know about that strategy. Thank you for the education!

Like you, I was furloughed in 1995 and that contributed to my decision to go back to school and leave the Government...never intended to return, but here I am all these years later with a few more to go. When the furloughs hit in 2013 and 2018 I was paid out of multi-year appropriations so not subjected to them. Now we're all paid from single-year appropriations so the cheese will be spread to probably most of us. Sigh.

What's different, at least for now, is that even the Republicans are saying this one is on them. Don't let them spin it later to be Biden's fault!

[EndlessWire]

25. There is a name for this trick.

I don't remember what it is, but it is done in California. They get everyone to sign off and pass the legislation, then the bill is switched out into an entirely different bill. You go to follow up on a bill number, and it has been amended into something unrecognizable from what you were following.

I think it is important for the average citizen to understand this. I know I was puzzled and shocked.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. Yeah Wikipedia actually mentions that it is part of parliamentary procedures

that have been used by legislatures to do certain types of amendments - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitute_amendment

[yardwork]

33. This is why I love DU.

I have a question. What if the bill attracts the votes of all the Democrats and none of the hard-right Republicans in the House? Are there enough votes to pass it? (In other words, can McCarthy get enough "reasonable" Republican votes to tell the Gaetz crew to pound sand? Or would he not have the votes?)

[COL Mustard]

35. They have a pretty slim majority (or whatever you want to call it)

Getting 5 or 10 (relatively) moderate Republicans who are from potentially competitive districts to vote for it should not be a huge obstacle...at least from my front porch in the DC burbs.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. Answer to your question - of course

Every time the GOP takes control of the House, they basically invoke the "Hastert Rule", where they are going to insist on making sure that they can pass certain legislation with ONLY their votes or it won't be brought up for a vote.

The media refuses to call them out on this "lack of bipartisanship" that they demand that Democrats "must" deploy or they will endlessly trash us with "not reaching across the aisle".

Hastert Rule

So for ANY bill in the House, if every Democrat agrees to it, all it will need is at least 5/6 (varies as there are some vacancies at the moment) or more Republicans to go along and it's a done deal. And they certainly have a caucus (the "Problem Solvers Caucus" ) that has a bunch of "moderate" / "swing" Republicans on it (along with centrist Democrats), that can be part of the 6 (or more).

[yardwork]

41. Interesting! So, theoretically, the Democrats could pass the bill.

The bill needs a simple majority in the Senate and House, correct? So, if the hard-right grenade thrower contingent continues to block passage, the Democrats could pass it with 5-6 moderate Republicans, and to be palatable to the Democrats it probably wouldn't be as draconian as the rank and file Republicans would like?

But McCarthy will likely play brinksmanship, using the Hastert Rule to avoid bringing it to a vote. Which is why the Senate may go first, and then the pressure is really on McCarthy and the flamethrowers. Do they really want to shut down the government. The flamethrowers probably do because they're too stupid and feckless to understand, but I have a gut feeling that McCarthy will not.

So, hilariously, we could come out of this with a better bill than the Republicans would have forced if McCarthy had better control of his caucus?

[BumRushDaShow]

42. A simple majority in the House is fine but not the Senate

The Senate still has that cloture (filibuster) Rule where they need 60 votes to proceed with consideration, which is a higher hurdle to jump over. This is why the Senate has quietly been working in the background to cobble something together that can get 60 votes in the Senate.

And yes, that is where the brinkmanship happens because McCarthy could opt to not schedule it for House consideration.

In a related issue - this was why he opted to start the Impeachment Inquiry "without a vote" as he "promised" because he obviously knew he didn't have enough votes to approve it (some moderate/swing Republicans had already objected ahead of time) and the vote would tank.

[IbogaProject]

43. I saw at least one R, Lawler from NY saying they'd vote for something like this.

It would be just for these bills. There may be another who said they'd do it too.

[BumRushDaShow]

44. I think a couple of the NY Republicans in flipped-to-R congressional seats, had expressed interest

They know they are about to be redrawn right back out of those seats!

[BumRushDaShow]

45. I think a couple of the flipped-to-R NY congressional seat Republicans had expressed interest

They know they are about to be redrawn right back out of those seats!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

38. Thank you! How do you know all this?

I try to pay attention and learn how things work in the government, but it is soooooo complicated & confusing!

[BumRushDaShow]

40. Retired fed who is a CSPAN junky

(you watch enough hearings and debates and you get the hang of it - it's actually "standard" parliamentary procedure stuff, and even something as simple as a "club" will utilize parliamentary procedure for meetings)

[Blue Owl]

4. Did McTurtle himself shut down?

[Joinfortmill]

7. I'm so sick of this shit.

[orangecrush]

8. +1

[LoisB]

16. You are not alone. We have got to take back the House.

[Kennah]

9. I thought of

[BumRushDaShow]

13. LOL

[sir pball]

31. Myself, I thought of a different Catherine O'Hara quote...

Moira Rose is second only to Delia Deetz and I'm not even sure about that.

[C Moon]

11. I don't trust the turtle, even in this sitatuation. They are doing something sneaky. nt

[sheshe2]

12. Hey, McCarthy?

You gave them to Mad Madge, Gaetz and the rest of the Maggots. That makes you a eunuch.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. He had an unfortunate... um...

accident!

[sheshe2]

23. Ooops!

Can't watch!

[COL Mustard]

36. I love high-speed photography!

Very cool to see things like that!

[yaesu]

14. It's time to put an end to this trpuke made up funding crap

And mint a coin that covers all government costs for a year. Do that a few times and the repuke shit show will fade in the past

[COL Mustard]

37. This is different from the debt ceiling.

This is the actual passage of appropriations for agencies. Many of those expire at midnight on 9/30. Some are for multiple years (RDTE,Procurement, Shipbuilding & Construction, Military Construction, etc.) but all of the one-year appropriations that were passed last year expire at the end of the FY.

[Grins]

18. Don't they first have to deal with the Senate dress code...?

Why, yes; I have been watching Fox…

[Snackshack]

22. The GOP

… must just be beside itself with the incredible luck it seems to have.

After completely phucking up their job, No, not “phuckin up their job” after completely AND willfully ignoring their job of even basic oversight that they took an Oath to fulfill the last time they were in the Senate majority also when they had their designated party leader in the White House, DJT.

A man who willingly lied about a deadly virus because he wanted to “play it down.” He admitted to this on tape to Bob Woodward.

He got up to a podium every afternoon as The President of The United States for months lying over and over and over and over and over calling the virus a Hoax.

The man was so in over his head he suggested injecting disinfectant as a possible potential cure that and shining UV light on it…how you get the right amount of light to the right cells in a human body is anyone guess. He pushed Ivermectin and we know people died for that.

He did all he could to stop testing and slow / stop the over all response. He wanted a cruise ship of ill U.S. citizens to float aimlessly apparently because he like “where the numbers were”… what a POS.

While DJT was doing all of this he was President of the United States of America. He had taken an Oath that 1000’s have died defending and the GOP was right there lying right along with him in lock step. DJT has been identified as the single greatest source of disinformation on COVID so by extension the GOP.

World of Meters shows 1,175,569 Americans have died from COVID. A number that no one paying attention during the worst Pandemic we have ever had thinks is anywhere close to accurate. Many deaths were attributed to the onset of an illness brought on by COVID.

The GOP has been hand in hand with DT in all of the above and so much more…yet still they are given a role of equality, leadership and legitimacy in the funding of the very country they continue to try to kill by the Democratic Senate Majority Leader.

They must feel lucky because there is no way they would ever extend the same adherence to decorum, process, procedures. If the Dems had done what the GOP has done just in the last admin setting aside that whole lying us into an illegal war before that they would have jailed a significant # of Dems by now in some black site in Europe.

[erronis]

27. Excellent post!!! Every item is spot on. Yet, if the Democrats had done

something like this, they would have it with intelligence and with people with the right skills. They would succeed.

Our saving grace is that the (r)epuglicons attract the lowest-IQ, most immoral and unethical types that have no sense of how the world works.

Thank the evangelical gawd that these morons are morons.

[Snackshack]

46. True...

…but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. Eventually gop will find a moron w/ just enough marbles to end it all if it is given enough time to look for it… and it does not take many marbles, just the few DT had almost did it!

[SunSeeker]

24. How could Schumer have expected any other outcome with the House Republican Clown Show?

I sure hope Schumer is ready to go with "Plan B" ASAP.

[BumRushDaShow]

30. They knew

I think once the loons broke the promises of the Debt Ceiling agreement, he was probably having them all get ready to roll.

The one thing to note is that although the House does their own hearings and markups for appropriations (as the chamber having the power of the purse), the Senate ALWAYS does their OWN appropriations bills too. ALWAYS. They hold hearings and markups. That way they have their own framework once they get the House bill in so they can compare and amend as necessary. And because of the 60 vote cloture threshold, they kind of have to work that way because when the time comes for the rubber to meet the road, they need 60 votes to proceed.

ETA - sometimes they will have members from both chambers work on compromises informally (and there is always an option to have that done formally too).

[Alexander Of Assyria]

32. America foes and friends are having their annual chuckle and shake of the head at the worlds

leading economy and military buckle regularly under the weight of stupidity.

Real head scratcher why the world has lost all respect for the American model…shining light on the hill has gone dark…only Americans blinded by he mass propaganda of oligarch controlled media don’t see it the darkness…it’s been normalized, a raging madman leader of half the voters….