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[Fresh Water Falling]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Fresh Water Falling) on Thu Sep 28, 2023, 05:44 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[gab13by13]

1. So, it was bad for Canada to designate the Proud Boys as a terrorist group

and it is a good thing for America to ignore them?

Go get the Nazis, Germany, fool me twice....

[Fresh Water Falling]

3. I saw nothing in the article. . .

about Artgemeinschaft having carried out acts of violence.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

5. It's their country,

they can make the laws they want and given the past history of Nazism in Germany, it's a prudent action taken.

[Martin68]

23. Indoctrinating children in racial hate is an act of violence.

[paleotn]

30. They're smart enough NOT to make the same mistakes again.

As for the US, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. Even Jefferson got that.

A strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.

[The Magistrate]

2. This, Fellow, Is Absolutist Bullshit

"Banning even the most loathsome of political parties is bad policy in a Democratic country."

[Fresh Water Falling]

4. You have a defective username.

No magistrate in America would countenance the suppression of First Amendment rights.

[The Magistrate]

6. Thanks For The Laugh, Dear

"You can never say it, of course, because silence is the perfect expression of scorn."

[Alexander Of Assyria]

7. These are the most loathsome and violent of cults...and Germany

has hate speech laws America now wishes it did…free speech and banning hate groups is done everywhere in democratic nations….but America…all have a freedom of speech constitution…you can have democracy without permitting hate speech…or the nation suffer the consequences.

What makes America very special is institutional political corruption, blinding he clear logic other democratic nations have no problem with. Hate speech is not free speech, the American constitution is not so special.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

8. And there's the difference,

this isn't happening in America, it's happening in Germany where they have the right to ban neo nazi parties.

[BlueWavePsych]

9. We should do the same here. Ban and arrest the fuckers.

[llashram]

19. exactly

magarats ALL need to be driven to the sewers to live out their miserable lives. Never to run a major political party ever again.

[Seeking Serenity]

26. Ban the Gopper Party

No ballot access, seize any funds raised, put its leaders in jail.

Desperate times and all that

[usonian]

10. Ban nazis in the US?

Logistically impossible, because that would be just less than half ...



Until then, let's just outnumber them at the polls, and create a more just and inclusive culture here.

Sure wish that Mike Bloomberg would buy up all the hate media. He is pledging $500M to end coal-fired power plants, and curb gas-fired plants.

https://www.morningstar.com/news/accesswire/787247msn/michael-r-bloomberg-doubles-down-with-additional-500m-to-help-end-fossil-fuels-and-usher-in-a-new-era-of-clean-energy-in-the-united-states

[ThreeNoSeep]

11. OP's conclusion

[div class="Banning even the most loathsome of political parties is bad policy in a Democratic country."]

Fresh, just do a search on the "Paradox of Tolerance" and try again. The arguments and implications you are making don't hold up under any sort of critical scrutiny. To argue that a tolerant society must endure any intolerant speech/behavior is, frankly, sophomoric at best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,or%20destroyed%20by%20the%20intolerant.

[GoneOffShore]

12. Time to ban them here

Graffiti I saw recently - Aimez-vous les uns les autres, sauf les nazis. Brise leur coeur.
Love one another, except for Nazis. Break their hearts.

[Zeitghost]

33. There were times in our country

When many of the progressive ideas we have here were "against the social contract" of the time.

Banning ideas and speech never works.

[Fresh Water Falling]

34. Sometimes, promoting something is an underhanded method of sabotaging it

Sleazy,, but it can be effective.

[dalton99a]

13. Tolerance is not a moral precept

[llashram]

20. +++

[Hiawatha Pete]

27. +1

[paleotn]

28. Exactly!

[BlueKota]

31. +1

[prodigitalson]

14. Artgemeinschaft - seems like it should involve art in a mine shaft but means "Species Community"

and by that Nazis it seems

[dalton99a]

16. Their real name is Artgemeinschaft Germanische Glaubens-Gemeinschaft

Artgemeinschaft Germanic Faith Community

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artgemeinschaft

The Artgemeinschaft Germanic Faith Community (German: Artgemeinschaft Germanische Glaubens-Gemeinschaft; abbreviated AG GGG) is a German Neopagan[1] and Neo-Nazi[2] organization[3] founded in 1951 by Wilhelm Kusserow, a former member of the SS. In 1983, it merged with the Nordungen (founded 1924). From 1989 to 2009, it was headed by Jürgen Rieger.[4] In September 2023 Federal Ministery of the Interrior banned the Association. ...

“Struggle is part of life” is a belief of AG GGG and written in the group’s “confession of species” in which the guiding principles are laid down. The “struggle” is “naturally necessary for all becoming, being and passing away,” it says. “Every single one of us and our entire species are in this struggle.” Instead of the term “race” in the “species community” (Artgemeinschaft) the term “species” (Art) is used.[8]

[prodigitalson]

17. what a bunch of weirdos

[Kid Berwyn]

15. Good. Share the blueprint and results with the FBI.

And the content of this thread. Congress needs to get rid of the NAZI stench.

[sybylla]

18. Germany learned it's lesson about letting hate groups masquerade

as political parties hiding behind jingoistic patriotism.

You, apparently, have not.

When a group/party has a history like this, banning is appropriate.

Our constitution won't let us ban hate groups from masquerading as political parties, but we damn well better have a way to call them out and name them for what they are. We'd better be prepared for having conversations about what this all means and use Germany's historic bad example.

Except, we're there right now and it's not happening. In fact, the current hate group masquerading as a political party is banning history and books that might undercut their hate.

It's time to wake up and start smelling the flowers that are being prepared to adorn the casket of democracy.

[llashram]

21. ++

last line, simply succinct

[paleotn]

29. A very painful lesson they'd rather not repeat.

And we'd better take note in the US. All rights have limits. And those limits are precisely where said rights impinge on other people's freedom.

[IronLionZion]

22. Mine shaft

US police should do the same

[LiberalFighter]

24. Hate groups don't belong anywhere.

They can be prosecuted here in the USA if it is also the basis for committing a crime.

[Elessar Zappa]

25. Germany can do whatever they want.

Many democratic nations ban hate groups. I agree that it would be unconstitutional in the United States.

[paleotn]

32. Argue that with Jefferson.

Probably the most radicle of our founders. But even he had limits guided by good sense. Ban the bastards.

A strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.