Israel cutting off electricity, fuel and goods to Gaza

[brooklynite]

Source: NBC News

Israel's government will halt the supply of electricity, fuel and goods to Gaza, according to a statement tonight from the office of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Netanyahu said that the "first stage" of Israel's counteroffensive against Hamas had ended, claiming that Israeli military forces had fought off the "vast majority" of Hamas militants behind the early morning incursion.

He pledged to continue counterattacks without "limitations nor respite."

"We are embarking on a long and difficult war that was forced on us by a murderous Hamas attack," he said.

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/live-updates-hamas-israel-gaza-attack-rockets-gunmen-palestinian-rcna119316/rcrd20130?canonicalCard=true

[angrychair]

1. Sooooo starve innocent people to death

Everybody just cheers I guess?

[MissB]

2. It's often hard to see the good guys during a war

But todays actions point to Israel being the good guys.

I realize that folks have all sorts of reasons why they may disagree with that assertion but our leaders back Israel.

Lots of folks will die on both sides, and it’s going to be hard to watch that.

[RockRaven]

4. You realize it is possible to have situations without "good guys," right?

Not every circumstance has a good guy-bad guy dichotomy. That's unnecessarily simplistic.

Sometimes everyone is bad, in various ways and degrees.

And it is okay to say so. We don't need to pretend otherwise.

[Magoo48]

33. Both sides ism horseshit.

Which side has killed the most people over the decades?
Which side has relegated huge numbers to heavily oppressed ghettos?
Which side has built separation walls.
Which side has built more and more into the lands of the other.
Which side’s sole justification for complete dominance is references from millennia old storybooks?
Which side has been supported in this oppression for decades by the worlds most powerful military?

I’ve hated the killing and death in this region since I first saw photos of children throwing rocks at tanks when I was young. I’m now 75. One thing has remained the same; the people who lived on this land before Isreal are disregarded and presumed to have no rights. It reminds me of how indigenous people were, and still are, treated in the Americas.

[HUAJIAO]

34. Touche !!

[duhneece]

37. And there I was feeling alone on DU and there you were, saying what I was thinking

Thank you.

[MissB]

39. Eh

I refuse to get drawn into that argument.

Others can go for it. I think we have a forum dedicated to it, in fact.

[prodigitalson]

75. none of which justifies raining missiles on kids at a music festival

FYI - I strongly support the Palestinians right to their own nation. What Hamas did today rallies Israelis behind the hated Netenyahooo. What they did was not only evil bt counterproductive.

I don't remember Ghandi slaughtering kids and taking hostages.

[Magoo48]

76. I don't believe I condoned any type of killing.

[EX500rider]

87. "none of which justifies raining missiles on kids at a music festival"

Except it wasn't done with missiles, they invaded the festival and used machine guns on the civilians, full Nazi style.

[prodigitalson]

89. why did I think it was missiles?

I think I saw some drone footage (I believe taken by Hamas) and leaped to the assumption it was an attack from the air.

[prodigitalson]

95. a witness is telling cnn that the attack at he festival "began with an artillery bombardment"

[EX500rider]

98. He mean a rocket barrage which happened as Hamas was breaching the border

[prodigitalson]

99. that's what I figured.

[EX500rider]

88. "Both sides ism horseshit." yes it is

Which side tries to avoid civilian casualties and which side tries to cause them?

Hitting civilians by accident happens in all wars and is not a war crime.

Surrounding a music concert and trying to mow down all the civilians there and killing 250+ certainly is and is something the Nazi SS Einsatzgruppen would do.

[cab67]

40. Good guys sometimes make horrible mistakes.

This particular action is likely to lead more Palestinians to the Hamas side. It's a strategic blunder that any rational leader would have avoided.

Israel certainly has the right to defend itself, and there's no immediate justification for Hamas' attacks. But the solution to this problem should be as much diplomatic as military, and so far, there's been far too little of the former.

[obamanut2012]

79. They are not "the good guys" here at all

The only good guys are the innocent people in all of Israel and Gaza.

[EX500rider]

8. They can still bring food in via the border with Egypt

Cutting off trade with the enemy is pretty standard, maybe Hamas should have thought of that before literally biting that hand that feeds it.

The Israeli army has asked residents of several areas of the Gaza Strip to flee their homes in preparation for retaliatory strikes against Hamas https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895

Feel free to show me where Hamas ever warns civilians. (instead of purposely targeting them)

[angrychair]

11. Does Israel warn civilians

When they plow down Palestinian homes and take their land as a new Israeli settlement?

It's hard to argue that Israel treats Palestinians as human beings when any Israeli can just take their land like they don't even matter.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/07/israel-un-experts-condemn-forced-eviction-east-jerusalem-families

[EX500rider]

12. Yes they do unless you think they bulldoze houses with people in them, have a link for that?

[angrychair]

13. You looking past the bulldozing of homes

Of innocent civilians? I already gave you a link to the UN calling it a war crime.

It is also a Article 53 violation of the Geneva Convention.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-53#:~:text=Any%20destruction%20by%20the%20Occupying,absolutely%20necessary%20by%20military%20operations.

[EX500rider]

43. Since the example you posted happened in Jerusalem certainly not a war crime

Happened in Israel to Israeli citizens, more a civil matter like US imminent domain.

Lets compare Israelis bulldozing a empty house to Palestinians surrounding a peaceful music festival of civilians and then trying to kill them all with machine gun fire, very Nazi/SS behavior IMO:


How an Israel music festival turned into a nightmare after Hamas attack

The number of people killed and wounded at the festival is not yet clear. It is also not known whether Hamas took anyone hostage from the party, as they have done in other towns and villages.

But Yaniv, an emergency medic who was called out to the party, told public broadcaster Kan News: "There are at least 200 bodies of Israelis in the area I was in."

"It was a massacre," he said. "I've never seen anything like it in my life. It was a planned ambush. As people came out of the emergency exits, squads of terrorists were waiting for them there and just started picking them off. In the parking lots, people started running, murdering people inside the toilets.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67047034

[duhneece]

36. Are you not familiar with Rachel Corrie?

We only hear about it when it’s an American bulldozed, breaking her back and killing her.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/rachel-corrie-justice-palestinians-only-way-forward#:~:text=During%20Wednesday's%20online%20webinar%2C%20Corrie's,think%20my%20back%20is%20broken.%22&text=Rachel's%20death%20made%20her%20a,book%2C%20Let%20Me%20Stand%20Alone.

[EX500rider]

41. She wasn't in a house, was warned to move and unwisely decided not to

The forward visibility in a D9 armored bulldozer is very poor, the driver would not be able to see close in front

[MarineCombatEngineer]

60. Operated those in the Marines,

and you are correct, visibility was limited.

[EX500rider]

64. "We only hear about it when it's an American bulldozed"

Only time it has happened as far as I know unless you have some links

[Beastly Boy]

19. So what ever happened to the report you cited?

Was it ever acted on in any way? No? Do you know why?

Well, it appears that the only family mentioned in the report by name in your source had no right to occupy the property they were legally evicted from. They were squatters who moved into the property without the knowledge or permission of the rightful owners. The title to the property belongs to a trust who were illegally displaced by the Jordanian authorities when Jordan annexed East jerusalem following the war of 1948.

Israeli Supreme Court eventually ruled in favor of the rightful owners, after giving the family in question every legal opportunity to provide evidence of their right to occupy the property.

The facts of this case were repeatedly misreported by the media and, apparently, condemned by your source without any legitimate reason.

https://www.camera.org/article/aps-substandard-coverage-the-sub-laban-real-estate-saga/

[angrychair]

22. "my source"

Is the UN. I didn't make that determination, the UN did. Your argument is with the UN and the Geneva Convention not me. It's not personal, just reality.

[Beastly Boy]

27. I didn't accuse you of creating the report.

I only accused you of citing it. And the reasons you cited what you did is not controlled by the UN or the Geneva conventions. It was your choice.

I am just bringing your attention to the source other than what you cited which provides facts of the matter rather than condemnations absent of facts that have no grounds to be acted on.

[Beastly Boy]

16. Speaking of the Geneva conventions,

Article 29 of the Fourth Geneva convention places the responsibility for the safety and protection all non-combattants (or protected persons) on the "party to the conflict in whose hands protected persons may be" (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf). In this conflict, it is Hamas, and Hamas alone who is responsible for innocent people not being starved to death. Hamas' murderous incursion into Israel constitutes their conscious and deliberate disregard for their responsibilities towards all Gaza residents. Hamas failed to live up to their responsibilities not by error, not by omission, not by negligence, but by deliberate wanton disregard for the safety of the populations in their care.

But what does starving civilians to death mean to a terrorist who is outright murdering civilians to death? The allegiance of the said civilians doesn't seem to make much difference to Hamas.

[McKim]

17. I thought they already had cut off plenty to gaza for years. Anything left to cut?

Gaza has already had many things cut for years now. Is there anything left to cut besides electricity?

[Beastly Boy]

28. Apparently, plenty.

Rockets, grenades, firearms, ammunition, explosives, RPGs. You name it.

[AZLD4Candidate]

20. So, Israel gets hit with terrorist attacks and should just do nothing?

How about Gaza dealing with Hamas and putting those in Hamas in prison? Nah, it's Israel's fault.

[TeamProg]

23. +1

[Elessar Zappa]

30. Hamas should have considered that.

In addition, I don’t think the Israelis are feeling very merciful given the footage of Palestinians celebrating the terrorist attacks in the street.

[oldsoftie]

32. After THIS type of attack, I'd cheer if they lined up 1000 bulldozers and drove for 20 miles.

The Arab nations dont give a shit about them, only Syria & Iran, both terrorist states, are their big backers. Let THEM have them. They're just like the Russians; constantly targeting civilians & now kidnapping & killing them. Even foreigners.
Screw 'em

[obamanut2012]

80. "I'd cheer if they lined up 1000 bulldozers and drove for 20 miles"

Jesus.

You are literally advocating wanton, random genocide of innocents and their property.

wtaf

[ripcord]

47. Tell Egypt to open their borders and help

[walkingman]

3. The holier-than-thou war is escalating again. The whole thing is disgusting

and never ending.

[TeamProg]

24. +1

[Fresh Water Falling]

5. "goods"

Including food, I presume?

[calvito]

6. Israel is the good guy

Im not saying Israel is perfect, and I dislike Bibi policies but has long the ultimate goal of Hamas is the destruction and extermination of Israel, there is nothing to be done but to defend yourself and kill before you get kill, sad reality
The contribution of the state of Israel to the world regarding, healthcare , the arts, technology , woman and gay rights is unparalleled , unfortunately the only contribution of Hamas and Gaza is terrorism

[MarineCombatEngineer]

7. +100. nt

Welcome to DU.

[rollin74]

9. I agree

Hamas and it's blood-thirsty terrorist actions are to blame for this war

[Elessar Zappa]

31. Welcome to DU, calvito!

[Mz Pip]

72. Israel is a democracy

It’s a pro choice democracy, as well. Not many of those in the mid east.

The Palestinian people are victims. They are victims of Hamas. Hamas has no interest in peace. Nothing other than the destruction of Israel will ever satisfy them.

[Calista241]

10. Shit is about to get fucked up in Gaza.

Cell phone networks will be dismantled, the power plant will be destroyed, and the Israeli's will also take control of the Egyptian border crossings. They'll demolish hundreds of buildings, clear land too close to the border fence. Civilians in Gaza will be entirely dependent on Israel for their very existence. Storing and launching 5000 rockets is not easy, and those storage sites will be targets, examined, nearby people will be interrogated, and all that infrastructure will be destroyed.

They'll also flood Gaza with bribe money, food and other goods for people to 'snitch' on Hamas fighters, leaders, locations, etc. From past demonstrations of this ability, it'll be fairly successful.

Israel is also probably going to block access to the Al-Aqsa Mosque for the foreseeable future. Complete with Israeli police securing the grounds, just to antagonize the Palestinians.

[AZLD4Candidate]

21. So, Israel gets hit with terrorist attacks and should just do nothing?

[oldsoftie]

81. Thats called FAFO. And Israel he'd been issuing MORE work visas & relaxed some restrictions.

And this slaughter of mostly innocent civilians (as usual) is what they get.
So Gaza gets what it gets.

[electric_blue68]

14. I support the best of Israel and at least some of The Palestinians aspirations...

I do not like Netanyahu or Hamas.

Will never forget that Netanyahu helped create the atmosphere for Rabin's assassination! Too much expansion denied Palestinians at least some partial contiguous State.

Otoh the smallish? amount of Palestinian terrorists who are launching missles near to where women, children & elders on their own side are - into Israel; almost guaranteeing that the Israeli Army won't strike back are cowards!

At times I metaphorically throw my hands up at both!

[speak easy]

15. This has happened numerous times in conflicts between HAMAS and Israel.

There are generators at hospitals and water treatment plants for example. Israel cannot be expected to provide material support to a regime that is at war with them.

[James48]

18. There are never any winners in war.

Just those who lose, and those who lose more.

This one is going to be very bad for a while.

[TeamProg]

25. +1

[TeamProg]

26. At some point Israel will go too far in their response and suffer international

condemnation.

It’s a given.

[ripcord]

48. It will be hard for them to go too far this time

Israel has officially declared war on Palestine due to terrorist attacks, I don't think people understand how different war is than the border clashes we have seen. Israel is going to bring the full might of their military down on Gaza and the West Bank, there might not be a Palestine after this ends.

[TeamProg]

62. That would be too far. I guess bulldozing Palestinians' homes without notice

doesn't count as terrorism.

The U.N and U.S are going to have to step into stronger diplomatic roles if Bibi goes too far.

But yah, Hamas really, really screwed up! WTF are they thinking?

[oldsoftie]

83. They've STILL been sending warnings. More restraint than I'd have

THEY put these terrorists in charge time after time.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. To some, ANY response from Israel is TOO far, so...

[TeamProg]

54. That is not what I'm saying though, is it? That's what YOU are saying. Good lord. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

56. I didn't say YOU were. I said SOME. Good lord, indeed!

[TeamProg]

58. You changed the subject to an extremist POV that we do not need. Someone hit a nerve?

[Behind the Aegis]

61. No, I pointed out something I have seen time and time again.

Don't like my opinion, seems I hit a nerve.

[oldsoftie]

82. We've already heard it from some of our so-called "elite" universities

Among others.
They've turned down every opportunity for peace AND their own lands. But Israel is ALWAYS supposed to give more.

[cstanleytech]

29. My sympathies to all the innocents that are or will suffer during this crisis on both sides.

[AntivaxHunters]

35. This is not good

This will kill innocent people.
What about people who are hospitalized like cancer patients, people with heart conditions? What about people who require oxygen?

It's always the needy who bare the brunt of violence in war. Always.

[Igel]

51. It already has.

Hospitals will have generators, until the fuel runs out. (And if Hamas deems that fuel is necessary for the struggle, then it'll run out faster--and Hamas will just say, "If the Jews provided fuel, this wouldn't be a problem, so blame *them*!" Or some such self-serving tripe.)

[nowforever]

38. Cruelty and revenge

Should not be part of war operations. These types of actions just build a hatred toward the other and will strengthen resistance and encourage retaliatory assaults.

[dembotoz]

42. hmmm some might call this genocide

Israel should know better

but nutty yahoo has all the marks of a war criminal

[totodeinhere]

45. Any comment from you about the many war crimes committed by Hamas?

n/t

[dembotoz]

46. plenty of blame to go around

the government of nutty yahoo has much blood on their hands and i am just not ready to chase the new shinny object

[totodeinhere]

55. Nothing the right wing Israeli government has done justifies the slaughter of

innocent Jews. Why can't you say that?

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Because to some, there is no such thing as innocent Jews and/or Israelis.

[dembotoz]

63. or innocent Palestinians?

[Behind the Aegis]

65. Also the case. I can say it. Now...ur turn

[dembotoz]

66. and i have but shouldn't there be at least minimal standards?

you beat an animal long and often enough it will turn on you.

[Behind the Aegis]

67. Do it again.

"you beat an animal long and often enough it will turn on you" You talking about the Jews? oh no, only ONE side is innocent, right?

[dembotoz]

68. no

jesus christ have you followed the LONG history about how palistine has been mistreated....

Probably not
The dog was bad somehow and needed to be beaten. again and again

[Behind the Aegis]

69. Thought not.

I am VERY informed on the history of the region, including how the "Jew dogs" were and are treated, as well.

[dembotoz]

70. reread my statements several ttimes and can not see how you would think the dog was in reference to

jews.........


but you can misinterpret what i wrote any damn way you want.

[Behind the Aegis]

71. I didn't. YOU missed the point.

Shocker.

[oldsoftie]

84. Exactly. Its taught in their schools all the time. Preached by their leaders.

Israel is not on their maps. They're taught that Israel has no right to exist. The pick leaders who think the same thing.

[totodeinhere]

90. No such thing as an innocent seven month old Jewish baby who was slaughtered by Hamas

terrorists? Come on now.

[Behind the Aegis]

93. Did you not understand my post?

I was saying that is what some (including here) think in regard to there being "innocent" Israelis/Jews.

[totodeinhere]

94. I was reacting to those people you referred to, not you. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

96. LOL! So, I misunderstood YOUR post.

Happens.

But yeah, I agree with you. Of course, now we are seeing the metaphoric use of children as human shields by those claiming Israel has no right to respond to this terrorist attack because there are children in Gaza. These people are the disciples of the false equivalency narrative. It is like someone saying skin cancer and eczema are the SAME thing because they are both skin disorders.

[Big Blue Marble]

73. Nothing that either side has done justifies the slaughter of children and innocent people

on either side. Can you say that?

[totodeinhere]

91. Of course I can say that but only one side is purposefully slaughtering innocents.

Israel is doing everything possible to avoid collateral damage while at the same time defending itself. Any deaths of innocent Palestinians is squarely the fault of Hamas. On the other hand, while Israel tries to avoid civilian deaths the goal of Hamas is to murder innocent Jews.

[Big Blue Marble]

92. Do you really believe what you are saying?

You are rationalizing. The facts do not support your statements. Killing children is wrong period.

[totodeinhere]

97. Of course purposefully killing children is wrong. But children always die during wars and the

fault lies with the entity that started the war. Hamas attacked Israel and slaughtered 1,000 or more civilians. Israel had no choice but to respond. President Biden just said as much in his statement when he again offered unequivocal support for Israel.

[Big Blue Marble]

100. We have different values.

Do you know how many Palestine children have been killed since occupation? Do you care?
In your thinking, for over last five decades were they all justified? A fifteen year child in Gaza is
currently experiencing the bombing, suffering, and death for the fifth time in
their young lives.

The horror that is Hamas is wrong. I grieve for innocent children who have died in Israel.
The horrors that the children of Gaza are experiencing are also wrong. I grieve equally for
their suffering as I grieve for the children of Ukraine and children everywhere that pay
the price for the behavior of the adults.

Adult human beings are responsible for their inabilities to solve problems without
resorting to violence. To say that children always die in wars is to dehumanize them. If they
were your children, I doubt that you would be so detached. Do you really think
a Palestinian mother feels any differently than you?

[totodeinhere]

101. Okay then what would you have Israel do? Hamas is based in Gaza and the only

way to defeat Hamas is to go after them in Gaza. Hamas has as its specific stated goal the total destruction of Israel. There is no negotiating with an entity like that. Would you have Israel just sing Kumbaya and let Hamas destroy their country without reacting? The current suffering of the people of Gaza is the fault of Hamas. If you want to blame someone for the suffering going on in Gaza blame Hamas. And that suffering will not cease until Hamas is destroyed. And the only way to defeat Hamas is to bomb them into the stone age, then invade Gaza and take them out for good.

[MistakenLamb]

50. Should know better how?

Are you suggesting the Holocaust was a lesson for the Jews?

As stated above Israel has done this before, its not genocide not even close

[sarisataka]

53. No, I think Israel knows

Hamas goal is genocide.

However, there are people who are willing to overlook. Hamas attack was directed mostly at civilians and is executing children. Along with launching their rockets against Israeli cities from the center of Palestinian cities, it seems they are trying to provoke a bloodbath with Israel, hoping opinion will turn in their favor.

On the other hand I believe Iran would consider the genocide of all Palestinians a small price in exchange for the elimination of Israel and Jews in the Middle East

[totodeinhere]

44. Cutting off power and supplies is a necessary prequel to a full scale invasion of Gaza

which will happen soon. Innocent civilians always suffer during wars.

[FakeNoose]

59. It's a good strategic move even if Israel doesn't invade Gaza

Also it was probably anticipated by Hamas anyway.

[ripcord]

52. They got tired of supporting terrorists

Palestine can appeal to Egypt for help, of course they might not want to help terrorists either.

[Big Blue Marble]

74. Should all the civilians in be treated as terriosts?

Civilian punishments are war crimes.

[EX500rider]

77. Israel is under no obligation to supply someone they are at war with.

Last edited Mon Oct 9, 2023, 07:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Indeed blockading someone you are at war with is SOP, like the US subs around Japan in WWII, no goods in or out, don't like it then surrender.

[oldsoftie]

85. Odd how everyone forgets there's a border with Egypt.

They act like Gaza is surrounded by Israel.
And why DOESNT Egypt help them more? With things like power and water?

[maxsolomon]

78. Laying siege to a city has ALWAYS meant this.

And that's what Gaza is, essentially. One large, impoverished city.

The innocent suffer, always. It's inevitable in war. Hamas no doubt anticipates a siege and feels it will work to their advantage, somehow - and likely explains the hostage-taking.

[Sky Jewels]

86. What a fucking horrific mess all around.

Last edited Mon Oct 9, 2023, 07:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Humans are the worst species imaginable.

And human MALES are the ones causing the VAST majority of the horrors on this planet.