Israeli Military Claims Responsibility for Church Blast in Gaza

[Brenda]

Source: The Wall Street Journal

The Israeli military said that a blast Thursday night on the St. Porphyrius Greek Orthodox Church campus in Gaza City was the result of its airstrike.

The blast resulted in the collapse of a building adjacent to the church where dozens of people were sheltering and killed two people. Hundreds were sheltering on the campus of the church. The Israeli military said a wall of a church in the area was damaged. “The incident is under review,” it said. The Patriarchate of Jerusalem didn't respond to request for comment Friday. On Thursday, it denounced the incident as an Israeli bombing.

(The story is behind a paywall, I don't know how to post the archive link that bypasses that.)

Here's another article from a different source:

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/20/we-were-baptised-here-and-we-will-die-here-gazas-oldest-church-bombed

Gaza City – Ibrahim Jahsan’s young family has been sheltering at the Saint Porphyrius Church in Gaza City since the war began.

One of Gaza’s 1,000 Christians, Jahsan never doubted the church was a safe space for him, his pregnant wife and two children aged five and six. The Greek Orthodox church – the oldest in the city, located in the Zaytoun neighbourhood – has traditionally served as a sanctuary for both Christians and Muslims during Israel’s periodic wars against Gaza.

snip

The church was sheltering hundreds of people when an Israeli bomb severely damaged one of the four buildings in its compound on Thursday evening, causing its ceiling to collapse and leaving dozens trapped under slabs of concrete, according to witnesses.

By Friday afternoon, the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem told Al Jazeera at least 18 people were confirmed to have been killed, including several children.



Read more: https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-conflict/card/israeli-military-claims-responsibility-for-church-blast-in-gaza-ItyUvoIPaeNBEsIeIS6J

[WhiteTara]

1. Monsterous

[Brenda]

3. Yes, it is. nt

[WhiteTara]

4. makes me wonder

who really bombed the hospital

[maxsolomon]

5. Why? Israel is accepting responsibility for this bombing.

Are they lying now? Lying then?

[LiberaBlueDem]

2. Ceasefire!

Stop bombing the city!

Allow aid into Gaza and save innocents from war.

[TexasDem69]

28. Why would anyone support a ceasefire

Until Hamas is eliminated?

[LiberaBlueDem]

29. Why?

Because so may innocents are suffering, is why.

[TexasDem69]

30. They are suffering

Because Hamas slaughtered more than 1,000 civilians from many countries. Burned and beheaded them. Hamas is to blame for every death in Gaza since that attack, and when Hamas hands over all the hostages it took AND hands over all the murderers who committed these crimes AND hands over all the individuals who planned the atrocities THEN a ceasefire seems reasonable. Not before that though.

But let’s assume a ceasefire is declared. When the same child murderers from Hamas commit the same atrocities a year from now are you going to call for a ceasefire again?

[LiberaBlueDem]

31. Yes, all ceasefire all the times

Because it is women and children, the innocents, who suffer the most

Because I never seek revenge. Revenge is stupid and in the US, is 9 times out of ten, unlawful. I pray our victims not seek revenge on the US.

[TexasDem69]

32. Thanks for confirming

I’ll continue to support Israel’s right to self defense and the goal of eliminating these terrorists, all the time. And you are confusing “revenge” with self defense and justice.

[LiberaBlueDem]

34. Their defense failed

And the attackers walked right in. It is not defense now it is offence and offensive to most of the civilized world.

This is in no way justice, it is revenge. We've seen it a hundred times. In the US revenge means Jail, due to justice.

[womanofthehills]

46. Murdering innocent children everyday

is turning the whole world against Israel and endangering the lives of the Israeli people. Hello! Thousands of images of dead and injured children on the whole world’s phones everyday - day after day - and photos of rows of dead babies every day will definitely
lead to WW3. Israel has dropped more bombs on Gaza in 10 days than all the bombs dropped in Afganistan.

[EX500rider]

37. Less about revenge, more about solving the problem

If they don't eliminate Hamas they will have to do this over and over in the future.

With your methods Nazi's would still hold France.

The Allies (mostly US & UK) killed over 20,000 civilian French citizens in the bombardments leading up to the D-day invasion of France.
Without that there was no guaranty of the success of the landings.

[yagotme]

41. Well, Hamas needs to cease fire, too.

Launching missiles is not "cease firing".

[cstanleytech]

44. Ceasefires only mean something when both sides want it to end for the right reasons.

Hamas doesn't want that because if they did they would not have deliberately targeted those hundreds of civilians to murder.

[Magoo48]

39. Your call for the elimination of Hamas would cost tens of thousands of innocents' lives.

Would you be willing to help with the killing? How many of the armchair generals across the US would be willing to participate in the killing, no picking and choosing though, you must be willing to kill men, women, and children non combatants along with Hamas terrorists?

[TexasDem69]

40. I mean, that's war right?

Hamas committed wanton acts of murder, including killing children in their beds. And Israel is going to attempt to eliminate the threat. How is that any different than Ukraine defending itself against Russia, or the Allies against the Nazis? The Nazis are a very good comparison for Hamas. And again, all deaths are directly the fault of Hamas, nobody else

[Magoo48]

45. Beat the war drums, bomb and crush neighborhoods, Hamas killing randomly.

The faces and bodies of the innocent do not show up again and again in the dreams of the armchair generals around world but in the nightmares of those participating in the killing and those who witness.

That’s why I always ask, “Are you willing to participate in the killing you advocate from afar?”

[yagotme]

42. Improper comparison:

Israel is PURPOSEFULLY trying to not kill civilians. Hamas goes out of it's way to kill civilians. Try again.

Would you be willing to help with the killing? How many of the armchair generals across the US would be willing to participate in the killing, no picking and choosing though, you must be willing to kill men, women, and children non combatants along with Hamas terrorists?

No picking or choosing is YOUR choice, not the combatants over there.

[IronLionZion]

6. I doubt bombing densely populated areas is the best way to defeat Hamas

But it is always going to kill innocent people.

[EX500rider]

7. I doubt Hamas is hiding out in the countryside in Gaza

[IronLionZion]

8. Hamas are not the only people being killed, wounded, or losing their homes.

[EX500rider]

9. Very few Wars have only Soldier casualties

Practically none really

[IronLionZion]

10. Collective punishment is a war crime

so is targeting residential areas.

[EX500rider]

11. If Hamas is hiding in residential areas it is not

They can't use civilian cover as a get out of War free card.

[TheRickles]

21. So what's an acceptable casualty ratio - 1 civilian for every 10 Hamas killed, 10 civilians for each Hamas, etc.?

[EX500rider]

22. Well 1st we won't know the ratio

Because we have to rely on Hamas who never mentions what of their I'd say inflated casualty rate is Hamas fighters.
Could be 90% for all we know, not like its beyond a terrorist group to lie for PR purposes.

[TheRickles]

24. Of course we won't know exactly. I was wondering what ratio would be OK if we had correct numbers.

Or even approximations. Or just in theory. Where do you draw the line?

[EX500rider]

25. I think the responsibility to get the civilians out of harms way is on their government

Which unfortunately for them is Hamas.
Israel has told civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza, if they don't don't be surprised when bad things happen.

I don't think their is any firm ratio, do the best you can, warn them to leave and continue till you gave met the goals of the war, which I assume is eradicate Hamas as a governing power in Gaza and turn the place over to the Palestinian Authority, who currently runs the West Bank.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

26. From a laws of war standard

There isn't a set number or ratio. It comes down to necessity and proportionality. Basically an attack must be necessary and the advantage gained by the attack must be proportional to the harm done to innocents.

So, for example, bombing a 2 story building with a dozen innocents inside because 1 insurgent ran into the building is neither necessary nor proportional.

On the other hand, if a commander and his staff were in the same building, then it would meet the necessity requirement and the proportional requirement. Dealing a blow to the command of the enemy could ultimately save more than 12 lives in the long run. Even if the number of enemy killed is lower then the number of innocents, it would still be considered proportional due to the wider affect of the loss of a Commander and their staff.

Obviously there are a lot of gray areas to this, lots left up to interpretation, and can only be based on known information at that time.

[TheRickles]

36. Yes, lots of gray areas that are hard/impossible to calculate.

Maybe the most important ratio, one that is rarely mentioned in these discussions (because it is impossible to calculate), is how many new terrorists are created for every civilian that is killed?

There's no way to "target Hamas" because they are so blended in with the populace, so as the civilian death toll mounts, we can be sure that a new generation of terrorists is being created. It's a never ending cycle, and it's why war is not the answer.

[Beastly Boy]

18. If hamas is the target of the punishment, it is not a war crime.

And if there is anything Hamas is known for it's hiding among civilians.

[JI7]

14. So why don't they do something to stop Hamas ?

[womanofthehills]

15. AL -Quds hospital told to evacuate

Look at all the children running around. Thousands are in this hospital for safety

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQA

[liberalhistorian]

12. Former Congressman

Justin Amash just confirmed on Twitter that several of his relatives, Palestinian Christians who'd taken shelter in the church, were among those killed. Truly tragic and infuriating.

[AntiFascist]

13. Meanwhile Netanyahu must be happy that he gets to remain in power n/t

[The Grand Illuminist]

17. Which is why I think he LIHOPed the Hamas attack.

As well as dividing his opposition there and abroad (the US especially) over this. And he is winning.

[Kennah]

43. For now

[Skwishy]

16. I don't think Greek churches are an appropriate target

I don’t know what’s going on there.

[Beastly Boy]

19. I don't think Greek churches are an appropriate hiding place for militants

But like you, I don't know what's going on, so I reserve judgement until the time I have sufficient information to make it.

[Polybius]

20. I'm surprises that are any churches in Gaza

The media led me to believe that it's not Christian friendly in the least.

[LeftInTX]

23. There are quite few Christian Palestinians. Most are Catholic.

Some are also Greek Orthodox.

Yassar Arafat's wife was a Catholic Palestinian.

Keep in mind, that area was once a center of Christianity.

[Polybius]

33. I knew there were Christian Palestinians

Just didn't know there were any in Gaza.

[LiberaBlueDem]

35. They have all been called animals

Not just the animals that attacked on Oct 7, but all Gazans are thought of us just animals. That way they think they can get away with murder.

[orangecrush]

27. I watched a video of Hamas attackers

Abduct a beautiful young German Jewish artist, tape her hands behind her back and force her into a van, gang rape her, then literally fold her alive into the back of a pickup truck and paraded her through the streets, as concerned citizens jumped up taking turns beating her to death.

Sorry, fresh out of fucks here.

[James48]

38. That's the strike that killed Justin Amash's family.

Former Michigan Congressman lost two family members in that strike.

Former US congressman says family members killed in Gaza church blast

Source: The Guardian

The first Palestinian American to serve as a US Congress member said he was grieving after several of his relatives were killed at a Greek Orthodox church in Gaza that authorities report was hit by an Israeli airstrike.

Justin Amash detailed his sorrow over losing family members amid the Israel-Hamas war in a post on X, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter.

“I was really worried about this. With great sadness, I have now confirmed that several of my relatives … were killed at Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church in Gaza, where they had been sheltering, when part of the complex was destroyed as the result of an Israeli airstrike,” Amash wrote in a post that pictured whom he identified as two lost family members, Viola and Yara.

The ex-congressman’s post continued: “Give rest, O Lord, to their souls, and may their memories be eternal. The Palestinian Christian community has endured so much. Our family is hurting badly. May God watch over all Christians in Gaza – and all Israelis and Palestinians who are suffering, whatever their religion or creed.”

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/justin-amash-family-members-killed-gaza-church