Court cites clergy-penitent privilege in dismissing child sex abuse lawsuit against Mormon church

[Ptah]

Source: KVOA (Tucson TV)

An Arizona judge has dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ruling that church officials who knew that a church member was sexually abusing his daughter had no duty to report the abuse to police or social service agencies because the information was received during a spiritual confession.
In a ruling on Friday, Cochise County Superior Court Judge Timothy Dickerson said the state’s clergy-penitent privilege excused two bishops and several other officials with the church, widely known as the Mormon church, from the state’s child sex abuse mandatory reporting law because Paul Adams initially disclosed during a confession that he was sexually abusing his daughter.

“Church defendants were not required under the Mandatory Reporting Statute to report the abuse of Jane Doe 1 by her father because their knowledge of the abuse came from confidential communications which fall within the clergy-penitent exception,” Dickerson wrote in his decision.

Although the church excommunicated Adams, its decision to withhold his abusive behavior from civil authorities allowed him to continue abusing his daughter for seven years, during which he began abusing a second daughter, starting when she was just 6 weeks old.

Read more: https://www.kvoa.com/news/local/court-cites-clergy-penitent-privilege-in-dismissing-child-sex-abuse-lawsuit-against-mormon-church/article_ad453c5e-12da-5f04-a23e-9695ae829084.html

[pansypoo53219]

1. WTF.

[niyad]

2. May all involved receive everything they deserve.

[MLAA]

3. Misogynist effing elders chose not to protect the little girls.

[keopeli]

4. Wow. It seems the Mormon Church is very influencial, wouldn't you say? Utah voted Trump twice, in case you need reminded

[Escurumbele]

20. They have to protect their pedophiles. I hope the girl who alleged being raped by trump when she was 13 years old

opens her lawsuit against the SOB once again, I hope that once trump is found guilty of more crimes that all the women he abused come forward and sue the SOB.

[RockRaven]

5. There was a thread the other day complaining about painting religious people with

a broad brush... I guess I'm about to commit that sin here.

Anyone who is part of that church is complicit in this abuse because it was enabled by the church's policies and its people choosing to keep vile secrets while children were violated in the most abhorrent way. For years.

[stopdiggin]

6. you either understand the penitent/confessional part of

religious practice and belief - or you don't. (or conversely, don't see it as valid or applicable)

But the court's ruling absolutely follows in the precepts of that tradition and belief. (and presumably state law backing such?)

(atheist here by the way)

[Chi67]

14. Good god!

Then the law clearly needs to be changed! Religious belief should never excuse child abuse!

[cstanleytech]

36. Then should attorney client privileges or doctors confidentiality be flushed to?

[orleans]

39. when it comes to sexually abusing your kid? or sexually abusing your

SIX WEEK OLD BABY?

YES!

[cstanleytech]

40. That might make it rather difficult for an attorney to provide a defense in a case where

someone is accused of commiting such a crime as the attorney according to you would be required to report it.

[orleans]

44. i'm not saying the attorney who reports would also be the defense attorney for the rapist

and this makes me wonder how often, when someone is charged for sexually abusing a child, do they actually confess/admit this crime to their attorney.

[cstanleytech]

45. Generally speaking an attorney would only be aware of it if they were representing a client either

in a criminal case or civil one regarding divorce.
Either way it would be privileged information among the client and the attorney which is what you are advocating doing away with.

[BWdem4life]

15. I'm just glad that wasn't your 10,000th post. nt

[stopdiggin]

24. merely stating what the practice (and law?) prescribes

while clearly making no 'endorsement' of either. I don't understand the offense.

The AP found that 33 states exempt clergy of any denomination from laws requiring professionals such as teachers, physicians, and psychotherapists from reporting information about child sex abuse to police or child welfare officials if the abuse was divulged during a confession.

Although child welfare advocates in some states have backed legislation to eliminate the privilege, lobbying by the Catholic Church, the Mormon church, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses has successfully persuaded lawmakers to maintain the exemption.

[Hekate]

32. The offense you don't understand is against the laws of the secular society that shelters them

We are all granted freedom of religion (or freedom from religion) with this caveat: one does not get to break secular law by claiming their religion endorses illegal behavior.

Or, it used to be that way for most of my life. There’s been a steady erosion of the separation of church and state over the past 20 or 30 years

The father in this particular case went right on molesting his little girl for another 7 years, and started sexually abusing her baby sister at 6 weeks. The Mormon church got off the hook by excommunicating him — but imo you’re either a mandatory reporter or you’re not.

[stopdiggin]

34. a misunderstanding

the 'offense' I spoke to was for the response to my initial post.
And if you think I disagree in any fundamental way with what you have said above - that would be another misunderstanding. But I think your argument has to be with the religious institutions - and the laws and elected officials that are clearly intent on shielding them. My own part in all of this is only to call a spade a spade.
(and I walked away from all the posturing and pretense, somewhere shy of a 15th birthday .. )

[Hekate]

35. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part

Really

[Duppers]

7. A criminal act should have NO exceptions!

Not with clergymen or Presidents!!!

[24601]

31. No exceptions? That would really cut down public defender workloads. After a suspect tells his assigned counsel that he

did sell pot to his roommate, the attorney can just report everything to the prosecutors and testify against his client. The resulting guilty plea will save a lot of money that otherwise would be spent on ensuring a fair trial.

[angrychair]

8. This is why I'm an atheist

This is completely fucking insane.

These people knowingly let that person molest a child and did nothing and the courts are like "oh well, nothing to see here"

Seriously, what fucking world am I living in.

[3Hotdogs]

10. --- but don'tja sometimes wish Hell was real?

[Phoenix61]

12. All too often in the last few years. nt

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

19. No, I don't

I can't imagine being so full of rage, hate and cruelty to torture someone for five minutes, never mind forever. It takes real evil to do it forever. Even Hitler and Ted Bundy weren't that evil.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

21. You're living in the part of the world where christians

Cover for each other, whenever they think they can get away with it. When they can't, they take great delight in blaming not-christians for the bad behavior of their wrongdoers, one way or another. And if even that doesn't work, they'll trot out their typical and well-worn persecution fantasies.

[cstanleytech]

41. Going by their relies beliefs they did what they could which was expelling him. Do I agree with them though? Nope.

[Bristlecone]

9. If you have ever Read "Under the Banner of Heaven"

It is more about the fundamentalist sect(s) of LDS, but it really is an indictment of the whole org.

Jon Krakauer author

[not fooled]

11. LDS were the first whites in several parts of AZ

LDS extremely influential in AZ to this day.

I looked up this judge's bio but couldn't find any reference to religious affiliation. Wouldn't surprise me if he's either LDS or Catholic.



Oh, and from this article https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/court-cites-clergy-penitent-privilege-in-18478790.php]:

Lynne Cadigan, an attorney representing the Adams children who filed the 2021 lawsuit, said she will appeal the ruling. “How do you explain to young victims that a rapist’s religious beliefs are more important than their right to be free from rape?” she asked. Cadigan also said the ruling, if allowed to stand, would “completely eviscerate the state’s child protection law.”

[Mysterian]

18. That's good news an appeal will be filed

Let's see how that plays out.

[Chi67]

13. WTF?

This is why religion gets a bad name. This is utterly insane.

[PufPuf23]

16. Should be criminal for clergy not to report crimes and in general to be mandatory reporters of crimes.

Would solve lots of chronic sexual and other abuse problems,

[cstanleytech]

42. Problem is the Constitution and its treatment of allowing freedom of religion.

Its kinda like the gun problem where if we want to really change things we need to amend that and make it more clear.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

17. This is the second time the mormons

Have squirmed free of sexual abuse allegations.

The first happened more than three years ago:

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/crime/2020/03/02/mormon-church-seeks-dismissal-lawsuit-over-reporting-sexual-abuse/4881888002/

You can bet that courts wouldn't give non-christians the same get-out-of-trouble card.

But, yeah, we're the immoral ones, because only "real" christians are moral. Just ask all the people who claim that criminal christians are actual "fake" christians, ergo, not christians.

[Farmer-Rick]

22. The results of Mormon's failure to stop a known Child abuser

A little girl was sexually abused for 7 extra years.

A 6 week old baby was sexually abused and it continued for years.

How can these people who call themselves Christian let that happen? And then the court turns around and blessed it.

All I can say is I am glad I'm an atheist. I know, I wouldn't have let those babies be sex toys for a grown man. I know that would be wrong. As an atheist I know it would be immoral to do nothing.

Why couldn't one of them just anonymously reported the abuser? Why couldn't one of them done the merest thing to call in an anonymous tip?

And the courts said Mormons and Christians can continue to ignore child and baby sexual abuse. It's A OK with the law. Ignore all the horrors your religion creates because it's legal. There is some seriously bad law.

[bringthePaine]

23. "religious exception" waiver is utter BS, just like the tax exemptions

[sarisataka]

25. Typically part of the penance

To be forgiven for such a sin would include surrendering oneself to the authorities. Spiritual forgiveness does not absolve one from temporal consequences.

[Freethinker65]

26. I always understood if the confession was to a crime that had already taken place, it was protected.

However, if the confession was about an ongoing crime it should be reported to LE.

[melm00se]

27. Here is an interesting document

that discusses clergy as mandatory reporters.
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/clergymandated.pdf

For laws to be changed:

This is not as simple as just saying "change the laws". In the US, the legal basis for the priest-penitent privilege is in the 1st Amendment.

The argument goes thusly:

- Religious belief says that this privacy of this relationship is absolute.
- Legislation to bypass this is passed.
- Lawsuit is filed referencing the 1st Amendment text: "Congress shall make no law...prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
- Court looks at this and says "Nope. Legislation cannot alter a religious belief".

Any ruling to the contrary sets the precedent that Congress can alter a religion and its beliefs. This can then be taken further to limit: speech, affiliation, press and assembly.

I would like to point out that historically messing with a person's religion is a very dangerous and foolish action.

When people start messing around with fundamental rights because of a micro-event, the macro big picture and the worst case implications of the change must be considered (actually assumed the worst case will come to fruition).

[cstanleytech]

43. Yup its the same problem with passing laws regarding guns.

Though I personally think the way around that would be to pass legislation requiring states to form and operate a well run militia along with details over what qualifies as well run.

[melm00se]

47. The Court's position on

priest-penitent immunity fates back much farther than the Court's current opinion on the 2nd Amendment so the 2 are not anywhere near comparable.

[sakabatou]

28. WTAF?!

[ificandream]

29. There's a similar situation in the Catholic Church.

According to Google, priests are forbidden to disclose any crimes they hear. They can only tell the penitent to go to authorities and reveal the crime.

[republianmushroom]

30. Parents protect your children from the three "C's".

[Vinca]

33. Let's hear it for religion.

[The Roux Comes First]

37. Lord, I Have Enough Trouble Gagging Down the Abuse of Attorney-client Privilege

Now we have some sort of church custodian-pedophile exemption for child abuse reporting? My impression is that the rules are pretty damn strict for anyone working in educational institutions in particular when it comes to reporting ANY evidence of child abuse. Why is this not the case when a donation plate or fanciful spiritual claims come into the picture?

Where does this originate?

[pfitz59]

38. All Mormon men 12 or older are 'clergy'

So how can a penitent rule apply? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_(LDS_Church)

[grandpamike1]

46. Total

Bullshit.