Palestinian Authority claims Israel, not Hamas, committed Re'im massacre

[Kennah]

Source: Jerusalem Post

The Palestinian Authority's Finance Ministry put out a statement on Sunday, denying terror group Hamas was responsible for at least 350 partygoers slain at the Re'im music festival massacre.

The statement says that "preliminary Israeli police investigations" showed that Israeli claims in the media were false, followed up by saying that this was then used by "the occupation to justify its aggression against Gaza."

The statement continues by claiming that the investigations showed that Israeli helicopters bombed Israeli civilians on October 7 and that this caused "great destruction."
...
Prime Minister Netanyahu responded later that day, "Today, the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah said something utterly preposterous. It denied that it was Hamas that carried out the horrible massacre at the nature festival near Gaza. It accused Israel of carrying out that massacre. This is a complete reversal of the truth."


Read more: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-774081

---

I guess this is the logical next step for the PA to claim it was Israel, not Hamas

[Turbineguy]

1. The great thing these days is no matter what you say,

somebody will believe it.

[machoneman]

24. Hillary, no Obama, no Biden did it......................

[Bucky]

31. Call me old fashioned but...

... I remember the good old days when it was Clinton's cock that caused every problem in the world

[orangecrush]

40. DUzy

[Pope on a Rope]

36. Ain't that the truth.

No, it isn't.

Ad nauseum

[maxsolomon]

54. Or use it to deflect from answering a question. "Flood the Zone with Shit" isn't just Bannon's tactic.

In the West, this story is a way to derail questions regarding Hamas atrocities. Make the interviewer waste time refuting a preposterous lie.

Meantime, it spreads all over the Muslim world and gets taken at face value.

[OAITW r.2.0]

2. Is the PA a hostage of Hamas?

Stockholm Syndrome, writ large?

I honestly don't know the evolution of the PA, are they willing partners or are they in fear that they/their families will be wiped out by Hamas should they deviate from the current script?

[Kennah]

3. Either a hostage of Hamas or an ally

[manicdem]

6. PA is the lesser of two evils

The Palestinian Authority was created to mange the Palestinian territories and work towards the 2 state solution which led to Israel de-occupying Gaza in 2005. However they are still very anti-Israel and spread propoganda and hate, but aren't militant like Hamas.

The Gaza people elected Hamas over the PA which led to what we have now. Hamas is related to the Muslim Brotherhood, another extremist group which took over Egypt but was overthrown. The Palestinian Authority is on a tightrope not wanting to go to war with Israel, but at the same time have to be anti-Israel because that's what the people want.

Democracy will not work in the Palestinian territories and the PA hasn't held their elections. The Palestinian people will kick out the PA from the West Bank, and Gaza if they takeover, and re-elect Hamas or Hezbolah or other extremist militant group to continue the cycle.

[AnrothElf]

41. Thank you for this important context. Well said.

Especially the part about democracy in Palestinian territories.

[womanofthehills]

53. Hamas was elected when half the population of Gaza was not born yet

And most of the rest of the population were still children. You make it sound like the current population of Gaza elected Hamas.

Slate -“How George W. Bush Helped Hamas Come to Power
In Bush’s naïveté about the magic of elections, he ignored a crucial point about democracy.”

“It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.

In other words, Hamas’ absolute rule of Gaza is not what the Palestinians voted for back in 2006. In fact, since the median age of Gazans is 18, half of Hamas’ subjects weren’t even born when the election took place. Since they have known no alternative, have absorbed little information but Hamas propaganda, and have witnessed periodic outbursts of violent conflict with Israel throughout their lives, it is impossible to know what they really think about their rulers.

But we need to ask another question: Why did the 2006 elections take place? The explanation lies in the political ideals—or, more correctly, the naïveté—of President George W. Bush. “

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

[Archae]

4. The Palestinian Authority is so corrupt they stink on ice.

Last edited Mon Nov 20, 2023, 01:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Billions of $$$ have gone missing.

When Jordan let the PLO into their country, they tried to take over.

[nycbos]

25. Yup

Into Swiss bank accounts

[perdita9]

5. Does this kind of thing work in the Arab world?

No wonder they can't get their act together

[nycbos]

23. Of course it does.

Not just in the Arab world but around the world. When in doubt, blame the Jews. It's a 5000-year-old prejudice.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

35. Does anyone in the U.S. believe the FBI staged the J6 insurrection?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016368570

[Aussie105]

7. The finger pointing on both sides

is nauseating.

"We are the good guys, you are the bad guys."

In the fog of war, truth is the first victim.

Meanwhile innocent civilians on both sides have died, and are dying.

[TexasDem69]

37. Maybe, but not this

This is a blatant lie. Let’s call it that

[AnrothElf]

42. This is an obvious lie.

I've got a bridge in Brooklyn... I mean crypto NFT AI to sell ya'...

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Finally, the truth!

Of course, some miss the point of this lie and use it as yet one more way to attack Israel. So fucking predictable.

[nycbos]

26. Yup

When in doubt blame the Jews. It's been happening for 5000 years why wouldn't happen now?

[Kennah]

32. When ya find something that works, ya stick with it

[raging moderate]

9. Despicable claim.

Perhaps they justify it in their minds by telling themselves that their guys would not have done it if the Israeli government had done what the Palestinian Authority wanted them to do.

[2naSalit]

10. So...

Probably get piled on for this but...

What if it was a third party?

[TexasDem69]

12. What third party would it be?

I’m not following the logic here. Video clearly shows Hamas carrying out the slaughter, but even if it didn’t what third party could carry out that kind of attack without blame?

[2naSalit]

13. Without naming names...

I can think of at least three private armies who would avail themselves for the right price and aren't friendly to western interests.

[TexasDem69]

15. I'm pretty sure we can name names here

And it if was some private army I would think Hamas would say this private army did it. But Hamas has largely gleefully claimed responsibility for this slaughter. This is the first story I’ve seen where Hamas said they didn’t do it, and that’s after a month of celebrating the deaths they caused. Seems like a thin reed to me.

[Bev54]

28. Not only did Hamas claim responsibility, they have said they will do it again

I cannot believe anyone is buying this shit. Everything they have done and everything they dictate to the PA cannot be even remotely believed. Unfortunately Bibi and his henchmen are getting just as bad. His war room are far right jackasses and he now only has the support of 4% of the Israeli people. That is not an error it is 4%.

[Igel]

16. Which army left from Gaza and returned to Gaza,

while simultaneously launching a massive missile attack from Gaza.

If it wasn't Hamas, it was a very close ally to Hamas, one that Hamas allowed to smuggle thousands of missiles and over a thousand armed mercenaries into Gaza, launch an attack from and then return to.

Then magically vanish while the world was watching. Having hidden the hostages, without Hamas' permission, in Gaza. A Xmas gift in November!

Then, to disguise the true identity of the attacker, Hamas takes credit for it all. And negotiates to the best advantage for its windfall chattel-hostages.

[JI7]

19. Why not name them ?

[NH Ethylene]

30. But Hamas has the hostages.

So suggesting that Israel did it to themselves - a long stretch even for this barbaric administration - is just not logical when Hamas is holding hostages that were taken on that day, from that scene.

[Kennah]

33. Like Ross Perot?

[AnrothElf]

43. C'mon man. Don't be the guy "just asking questions" here.

[SidneyR]

11. I thought the PA

was the reasonable Palestinian authority? Relatively speaking, of course. Weren't they amenable to compromise and negotiation?

[DavidDvorkin]

14. Let's not forget the head of the PA blaming the Jews for the Holocaust

In a speech last month to senior members of his Fatah movement, Abbas said that Adolf Hitler killed European Jews not because of antisemitism, but because of their “social functions” in society, such as money lending.

“These people were fought because of their social function related to money, usury,” Abbas said in the speech. “From Hitler’s point of view, they were sabotaging, and therefore he hated them.”

https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-israel-holocaust-abbas-antisemitism-1d84b3a82f0d8ff3fd8601f06bc1176e

[TheRickles]

17. In this 10' video, a prominent British journalist (The Guardian) debunks several key IDF claims.

Not this claim about the festival, but several others that have gotten a lot of air time:

&ab_channel=OwenJones|

[TexasDem69]

38. What does the have to do with the lies

And slaughter perpetrated by Hamas?

[TheRickles]

46. Yes, those things happened. This clip just shows that IDF statements shouldn't be taken at face value.

Both can be true - Hamas does awful things, and the IDF puts out misinformation.

[prodigitalson]

18. the old PLO ain't what it used to be...they are scared of Hamas..its like non-crazy republican politicians and trump

Also...where did the hostages come from?

[nycbos]

22. Well, they used to put suicide bombers in cafes and on buses.

[Eugene]

20. They are distorting a report from Haaretz, saying that IDF *MAY* have shot some people by mistake.

IDF combat helicopter targeting Hamas fighters at Nova festival massacre shot some partygoers by mistake, says Haaretz (Business Insider)

•The IDF mistakenly hit Nova festival attendees while aiming for Hamas militants, Haaretz reports.
• 364 people were killed at the psychedelic trance music festival near the Gaza border.
• A police investigation reportedly indicates that Hamas did not know about the festival in advance.

A police investigation of the Nova music festival massacre on October 7 indicates that the IDF mistakenly shot some festival attendees while firing at Hamas terrorists.

https://news.yahoo.com/idf-combat-helicopter-targeting-hamas-122629406.html

Business Insider cites Haaretz, which I can read past the paywall.

_________________________________________________

Israeli Security Establishment: Hamas Likely Didn’t Have Advance Knowledge of Nova Festival (Haaretz)

Senior Israeli security officials estimate that Hamas found out about the Nova music festival through drones or from those flying in parachutes, and directed the terrorists to the location using their comms system

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000

[nycbos]

21. Siri, show me how I set back the cause of Palestinian self-determination.

I am a proud, Jewish-American. I am a pro-Israel, anti-Bibi, supporter of "two states for two peoples." The far-right assholes who Bibi is teaming up with now will be able to point to statements like this and say "See this is what we've been telling you. We do not have a partner for peace"

Under the mantra of a broken clock is right twice a day, you can't really argue with that.

[Tomconroy]

27. PA officials were all over the news the weekend

After the massacre. None of them would condemn it despite being asked numerous times. I assumed they were afraid of being killed.

[TeamProg]

29. What do you call terrorists here in the U.S. ???

R E P U B L I C A N S

[TexasDem69]

39. No, we call them Hamas

I don’t see any Republicans slaughtering folks at a music festival or burning babies in cribs.

[Think. Again.]

44. Actually...

...the vast majority of domestic terrorism in the U.S. is committed by rightwingers.

[TeamProg]

47. Pro-gun GOP lawmakers have contributed to mass shootings, no?

And to suffering pregnant women with known deformed babies bring forced to give birth.

[Bucky]

34. My conspiracy theory friend told me some fable of how IDF overreacted bombed some Israeli community

I didn't follow the details cause I thought it was just crazy and I wanted to get back to discussing art.

But it was useful to find out that she was in the grip of Russian propaganda media.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. No surprises.

Look at some of the comments on THIS site; hell, in THIS thread.

[sarisataka]

48. So i guess the hostages Hamas took

We're actually victims of the Israelis? Hamas just happened to be passing by and offered them rides to Gaza for their safety?

I suppose if you are willing to deny the murder of 6,000,000 Jews, denying this massacre is small potatoes.

Sadly we are seeing people believe this drek

[IronLionZion]

49. Maybe it was Antifa dressed up as Hamas

I hate this false flag conspiracy BS. It's what MAGA idiots do in the US.

[Richard D]

50. I do have to wonder ...

... how much more of the "facts" coming out of Gaza are also lies. My assumption is most everything

[Calista241]

51. This is so absurd.

Helicopter based weapons would leave an absurd amount of visual and physical evidence behind that even the most cursory glance would expose.

[Paidon]

52. Al's that's the "moderate" faction

Yikes.