Dutch Far-Right Leader Wilders Scores Shock Election Victory

[Polybius]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Lasher (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Bloomberg News

Far-right lawmaker Geert Wilders won the Dutch elections and said he plans to lead the country’s next government, in a shock result that will resound across Europe.

The frontrunner Dilan Yesilgoz-Zegerius conceded defeat after a late surge in the final days of the campaign catapulted Wilders’s anti-EU party past his mainstream rivals. Wilders’s Freedom Party will win 35 seats, according to an initial tally, more than doubling his representation from the previous parliament and giving him 10 more than his closest rival.

Read more: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-22/far-right-leader-wilders-scores-shock-victory-in-dutch-election?embedded-checkout=true

[PortTack]

1. They'll regret it....they despise our orange monkey here, so what do they do???? Elect their own

Good luck with That!

[quakerboy]

2. Is it shocking when it happens over and over?

[tornado34jh]

3. I keep saying that right-wing populism is more popular than we think

The EU is fracturing, we see that in Argentina, and we are seeing that in Europe. We better be aware of this quickly, because the US could be next if we don't wise up.

[OrangeJoe]

8. It's all about immigration

Europe has a real problem with the large number of immigrants and asylum seekers entering their countries. It's tempting as an American to tell them to accept the fact that the world contains lots of non white people and they need to get used to it, but that doesn't fly in the old world.

European nations have been racially monolithic for hundreds of years. They have a real fear of seeing their countries populated by people who don't look like them. And while it's a bit much when former colonial powers like Great Britain & France whinge about these foreigners arriving on their shores without invitations, the fact remains that a growing number of their citizens are feeling overwhelmed. The Netherlands is just the latest country to support the anti immigrant right in elections. Sweden & France have also seen anti immigrant feelings grow.

There is a lesson for the USA in all of this. The Democratic party's strong embrace of immigration, especially for the undocumented and asylum seekers with dubious claims of persecution, is going to come back and bite us on the ass come election time. Trump has masterfully played this card and it is not only very popular in many areas of the country but support for shutting the gates is growing.

Given climate change/global warming combined with population growth and we are going to see migrants machine gunned on the beaches of Europe and Texas in another decade if we don't halt it now.

[tornado34jh]

11. Well, I think part of it is humanity's own undoing, particularly with exploding population

Before I begin, let me be clear. I do not agree with the fascist "immigrants are poisoning the country" that the orange bastard projects. With that being said, we live in a planet that, as current projected models suggest, are supposed to reach 9.7 billion people by 2050. The planet just can't handle that. Earth could be twice as big (which would cause uncomfortable if not dangerous results due to increased gravity and a thicker atmosphere, but that's a whole different story for a different topic), and I think it still wouldn't be enough. Combine that with cheap energy (oil, gas, fossil fuels, etc.), and climate change, and the amount of climate refugees will only skyrocket. Figure it was only about 2 billion people around a century ago. It has since quadrupled. Of course, corporate greed/cheap labor is a big part of that.

But then again, wars many times often caused by other countries, or at least supported by, play a big role (e.g. Ukraine, Sudan, etc.). Everyone talks about MS-13 and all that, but the US was a big reason for that, having supported the government of El Salvador in the civil war there. Look, I am in no way saying immigration should be unlimited, and I understand there are very complex things going on, but again, we hear a lot about how many of the immigrants take the jobs that nobody, particularly in the US, wants. So who's fault is that? You can't complain about immigrants taking jobs yet you don't want to do those particular jobs.

In regards to Europe, I think a big reason for why is because the Netherlands, like most of Europe, are part of the Schengen area. This essentially means that people in those countries can move freely around other countries there and there essentially are no passports and limited border controls. That of course becomes an issue. Say if a whole bunch of people were to migrate from Libya and go to Italy, well, this becomes a problem.

[OrangeJoe]

19. Yep

Too many people combined with the human induced changing climate is the main problem.

[lostnfound]

12. In Europe: hijabs and safety, especially of women

There are more issues than “a real fear of seeing their countries populated by people who don't look like them”. You want your daughter to grow up in a liberal democracy where she is independent, free-spirited and educated to view herself as a modern human with equal rights and equal freedom? You want your gay son to be allowed to marry?

Take France for example. Does a society you were educated to maintain have those freedoms? The small towns too, all throughout France. But now the small town you live in has an increasing number of families whose men force their wives and daughters to wear a veil, or their young men patrol the local beach to enforce a ban on bikini bathing suits? “Honor killings” are in the newspapers. When elections are held, an increasing number of votes for mayor are going to someone who wants to require “modesty” in women?

(The flip side, of women on French beaches being forced by police to remove body coverings, is also a horror show.)

The town is converting to a different culture under your feet.
Then what?

In parts of Greece, I drove with my sister both of us wearing shorts, and found ourselves driving many hours through towns where no women were visible. Only men sat in the cafes on the streets, and we received odd looks as we passed. We were afraid to stop for lunch or medicine. We had not expected it and might have dressed differently if we had known. We finally saw a couple women — they were fully covered, and carrying a burden on their heads down a long dirt road. This was not about immigration, but about the absence of a sense of freedom for women.

In Britain, there has been public discussion about how to handle the rights of teenage girls whose fathers and mothers take them on a trip back to native country where they are in fact subjected to mutilation as a traditional practice]. Is Britain right or wrong in trying to stop their departure? What expense should Britain bear in these cases? These are questions in European cities over the last 20 years.

[OrangeJoe]

18. You'll get no argument from me on these points

[tornado34jh]

22. I'm not arguing against that, but how do you do it?

Remember when Belarus brought all those people from the Middle East and pushed them to Poland and Lithuania? How do you prevent that? Not to mention, you are opening a can of worms. I am not saying there is should be unlimited immigration, but again, there are no easy answers. We can't predict how people will act, even if you have the absolute best processes available. No one really vetted the Tsarnev brothers (Tamerlan and Dzhokhar). Also, it isn't just limited to Muslims. You mention honor killings. It's also found in many people from India. Getting rid of all the Middle Eastern migrants currently in Europe is impractical. Europe has an area just slightly larger than Canada, at 3.93 million square miles.

I agree with what you are saying, and I do not want to be under any theocracy. However, as I said before, a lot of the problems are humanity's own doing. Many places in the Middle east and south Asia are nearing the limit of human habitability. Some places likely will become too hot to live there. That is only going to increase climate refugees down the road. Now to be fair, it isn't just climate issues. The population growth, although slowing somewhat, is still too high to be sustainable, but many places, especially in Africa and Asia have high birth rates. That won't help the problem.


Of course, religion is a big part of it. Now I don't believe religious nonsense personally, but I am not unaware of the fact that Europe is predominantly Christian, whether Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, etc. It's a clash of religions. Now of course fundamentalist Christianity is just as bad as fundamentalist Islam, but the latter seems to be notorious for it. But again, this is a clash that has been going on for centuries.

[ananda]

14. Agree.

And yes, there is a lesson in this.

[LudwigPastorius]

25. "The Democratic party's strong embrace of immigration, especially for the undocumented...is going to come back...

is going to come back and bite us on the ass"

What do you mean "us"?

[Polybius]

24. I wonder why there is so little left-wing populism

Right-wing populism is all over the place.

[tornado34jh]

26. Well, populism by definition is basically against the elite

However, I think right-wing populism goes into the whole "us vs them". But a big part of it has to do with tribalism, something we have had for as long as humanity has been around. A lot of it is the perception that left-wing populism is socialist, communist, globalist, etc. The right has done a good job of putting this whole us vs them thing and using various terms for it. But a big thing has to do with immigration, especially from the Middle East. When I was in Europe from 2009-2011, the war in Libya was going on and more or less part of the Arab spring, and there were a lot of people upset about that. But I think we have been on the back foot in terms of fighting the terms the right has used. We have let the right dictate the debate more or less.

[SunSeeker]

4. The Apartheid-loving Afrikaners were Dutch, no?

Seems like they have demonstrated these tendencies in their history.

[ananda]

15. And many of our early slave traders were Dutch.

nt

[SharonAnn]

23. Yes, absolutely. And Dutch Reformed religion, of whom there is no more reformed than the Dutch Reformed.

[Blue Owl]

5. Think he'll overturn the Netherlands' universal social health care system?

[ShazzieB]

6. That would be a real face-eating leopard scenario!

"Why yes, I did vote for the Leopards Eatinig People's Faces Party, but I didn't think the leopards would eat MY face!"

I really hope that doesn't happen, but you never know.

[OrangeJoe]

9. Nope

I have relatives in the Netherlands. They love their welfare state but do not want to share it with immigrants. Wilders himself is an odd ball combo like you cannot find in the USA. He's gay & pro gay rights, pro legal drugs, just VERY anti immigrant.

[oldsoftie]

13. One big issue is the explosion of welfare & crime.

Like it or not people need to look at the FACTS in each of the countries that took in large numbers of the refugees from the ME. Too many people want to go to a country but they dont want to live under the rules of society that that country has. Crime has exploded & there are demands that host countries change THEIR rules & laws to accommodate their wants & beliefs.
And as you say, it certainly CAN "bite us in the ass'.

There are 4 things that the Pres has to deal with before the election; 1- gas prices MUST continue to drop. People see this every day. Do whatever it takes. 2- The border situation MUST be a priority. If Congress wont work then use EOs in the name of national security. Ask anyone in Texas what's happening. I have. And yes, there ARE Texans who aren't red neck right wingers. Put it in the forefront so people can SEE who is the obstructive one
#3
#4
Well, we're not allowed to talk about those items.

[OrangeJoe]

21. Agree

[Polybius]

17. Wilders isn't gay

He's married to Krisztina Wilders.

[OrangeJoe]

20. I stand corrected

Spoke to my Dutch sister in law today. She said that for years everyone thought he was gay or bi, but the accepted verdict today is that he is straight. His strong support for gay rights does make him an exception to the standard right winger.

[JI7]

7. Nothing shocking about it

[cstanleytech]

10. Posted already in LBN OP. :-)

[Polybius]

16. He even looks like Trump, bad hair, red tie and all

[Lasher]

27. Locking LBN duplicate thread.

Please continue discussion in this earlier thread.