Donald Trump defies judge, gives courtroom speech on tense final day of New York civil fraud trial

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Source: Associated Press

U.S. NEWS

Donald Trump defies judge, gives courtroom speech on tense final day of New York civil fraud trial

BY MICHAEL R. SISAK AND JENNIFER PELTZ
Updated 2:54 PM EST, January 11, 2024

NEW YORK (AP) -- Barred from giving a formal closing argument, Donald Trump still seized an opportunity to speak in court at the conclusion of his New York civil fraud trial Thursday, unleashing a barrage of attacks in a six-minute diatribe before being cut off by the judge.

Trump spoke as the judge was trying to find out if the former president would follow rules requiring him to keep his remarks focused on matters related to the trial. Asked whether he would comply with the guidelines, Trump defied the judge and simply launched into his speech. ... "We have a situation where I am an innocent man," Trump protested. "I'm being persecuted by someone running for office and I think you have to go outside the bounds."

{snip}

Judge Arthur Engoron -- who earlier denied Trump's extraordinary request to give his own closing statement -- let him continue almost uninterrupted for what amounted to a brief personal summation, then cut him off for a scheduled lunch break. ... Trump's in-court remarks ensured a tumultuous final day for a trial over allegations that he habitually exaggerated his wealth on financial statements he provided to banks, insurance companies and others.

{snip}

On Wednesday, Engoron had nixed an unusual plan by Trump to deliver his own closing remarks in the courtroom, in addition to summations from his legal team. The sticking point was that Trump's lawyers would not agree to the judge's demand that he stick to "relevant" matters" and not try to introduce new evidence or make a campaign speech. ... After two of Trump's lawyers had delivered traditional closing arguments Thursday, one of them, Christopher Kise, asked the judge again whether Trump could speak. Engoron asked Trump whether he would abide by the guidelines. ... Trump then launched into his remarks.



Former U.S. President Donald Trump, with lawyers Christopher Kise and Alina Habba, attends the closing arguments in the Trump Organization civil fraud trial at New York State Supreme Court in the Manhattan borough of New York, Thursday, Jan. 11, 2024. (Shannon Stapleton/Pool Photo via AP)

"This is a fraud on me. What's happened here, Sir, is a fraud on me," Trump said. He later accused the judge of not listening to him. "I know this is boring to you." ... "Control your client," Engoron warned Kise. ... Engoron then told Trump he had a minute left, let him speak a little more, and then adjourned.

{snip}

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-lawsuit-new-york-closing-arguments-b36abe2fd695d0172e71f8ef9c5ee7f3

---

I got the picture from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Tha AP has a weird format that won't show up at DU. The PPG had the picture in a format that will show up here.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2024/01/11/donald-trump-civil-fraud-trial-new-york-bomb-threat/stories/202401110112

-- -- -- -- -- --

Hat tip, Joe.My.God.

Trump Demands "Damages" In NY Fraud Trial Tirade, Attacks AG, Judge Tells His Lawyer "Control Your Client"
January 11, 2024

https://www.joemygod.com/2024/01/trump-demands-damages-in-ny-fraud-trial-tirade-attacks-ag-judge-tells-his-lawyer-control-your-client/

[WmChris]

1. Enough

Just jail his fat lying ass already enough is enough.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

71. It's a civil case, not criminal

So no criminal penalties.

I know it's difficult to keep straight the different trials, but it's important to remember which court is dealing with what.

[WmChris]

75. I get that

I've just had enough of him and want him jailed like any other con-man would've been years ago even before he started a revolution.

[rpannier]

77. True. But if the judge tells you not to do something and you do that is contempt

Which is an offense you can be jailed for
That they don't hold him to the law is becoming more of a problem every day

[getagrip_already]

2. The judge allowed it....

Though he didn't answer his question.

But the judge did allow it.

[Bev54]

20. Yeah that is the problem, they wouldn't allow any other defendant do that without immediately

shutting it down but they allow Trump to get away with whatever he wants. Sick of it!

[getagrip_already]

27. Its a bench trial.. he is looking to cut off any ground to appeal

And giving him rope to hang himself, which he did.

No skin off the judges nose. The trial is now over snd he gets to finish writing his ruling.

He may also sanction the attorneys which he mentioned much earlier. He could, for example, pull hubba and kleis's special bar permit to practice in ny. They aren't members of the bar, they are only granted special privelage to practice, and he can have that revoked as a sanction. They won't be able to practice in nys again.

They deserve that.

And stinky deserves much more than James is asking for.

[Jarqui]

37. That is exactly what he was doing

Trump will appeal

Trump now can't say he never got to speak
And what Trump spoke about violated what the judge had asked him not to speak about. Aside from attacking the judge and his staff, the judge felt Trump had the forum to say whatever he wanted about the trial publicly - outside the court. But within the court, Trump needed to stick to what was permissible in a civil court case of this nature - like any lawyer.

Judge gave him a little rope and Trump hung himself with his tongue in terms of arguing for an appeal on this basis.

There is no jury by Trump's lawyers choice. The judge is deciding this case. Messing with this judge is not going to help Trump when the judge renders his decision. He's already ruled Trump committed fraud. It's all about how much $ in damages and how much punitive action the court will approve.

It's going to be appealed anyway. But Trump will have to come up with the $350 mil or whatever (like Giuliani couldn't) to put into a bond for the appeal. He can sell properties but it is probably heavily mortgaged. This one is going to sting.

[Bev54]

51. Of course he will appeal but shutting him down would not be appealable. It is BS.

[TomSlick]

63. Preventing him from speaking would be "appealable," just not successfully.

Allowing him to rant removes the issue. It was no skin of the judge's nose and could only do TFG harm in the judge's deliberations.

[Bev54]

81. No it is not, it is not a right except if you go on the stand to testify. Seriously tell me one other court

proceeding that has allowed a defendant get up and say whatever the hell he wants to, without being cross examined and shut down when he goes beyond what he should. He does NOT have that right in a court of law, period. Go on the stand.

[TomSlick]

84. By appealable, I mean it would be argued on appeal. As I said, it would not be successful.

It did no harm, except maybe to TFG, to let him rant at the judge in a bench trial.

[Jarqui]

80. It limits the effectiveness of his bitching in the court of public opinion

because he got to speak.

When he appeals, it underscores the judge's treatment of him was right on.

The bar is much lower here - not beyond reasonable doubt but the preponderance of the evidence => basically, closer to who do you believe?

He was screwed before it started. All he can do is drag it out.

[Bev54]

82. He is going to appeal but this is not something he would ever win on appeal because he

has no right in a court of law to do whatever the hell he wants. The Judge told him NO and like a toddler the Judge should have stuck with his NO, because like a toddler, give him an inch he will take a mile.

[Jarqui]

86. As I said "He was screwed before it started. All he can do is drag it out."

The Appeals court appears to have agreed to stay yanking business licenses, etc until they've ruled.

So unlike Giuliani, it looks like Trump will get a significant delay.

[Bev54]

94. They granted that stay in Oct, shortly after Engoron's ruling. I suspect it will remained stayed

until the appeals wind their way through the courts, probably be a couple of years.

[ShazzieB]

39. Thanks for this summation.

Last edited Thu Jan 11, 2024, 06:23 PM - Edit history (1)

It's very clear to me from reading this that Trump getting away with delivering his little screed in court is actually of very little consequence as far as the outcome of this case. The judge is going to write his ruling, and I am sure that ruling will include stiff penalties for Trump and the Trump Organization. As it should!

[getagrip_already]

43. I'm also hoping he sanctions habba and kleis

He threatened them a while ago but their behavior didn't really change. They were as bad as stinky when it came to attacking his clerk, both in and out of court.

The difference with them is they are officers of the court and are held to a high ethical standard. Those attacks went beyond anything that was needed in defense of their client.

He has the option to revoke their special bar access in New York. They aren't a member of the new York bar, they just have reciprocal rights. Those can be revoked.

They need a good judicial spanking.

[Bev54]

53. Of course but it got Trump what he wanted, to spew his lies and insults and make himself look

like the tough guy for his supporters and everyone steps aside and allows him to continue doing it. Why is there nobody to shut him down and say enough is enough. He should have been immediately shut down.

[Bev54]

49. How would this ever be grounds for appeal? He does not have the right to even speak in the closing

statement it is the Judge's courtroom and it is up to his discretion. The Judge put terms and conditions the same as any of the lawyers and did not give him the permission because he refused to adhere to the rules. That is not appealable. He should have been shut down and he and his lawyers slapped with contempt and sanctioned. He is just allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants. Nobody else would ever get away with it. He wants to spew his bullshit he has the court steps to do that.

[getagrip_already]

58. Denying him wouldnt, but allowing him may be

An argument he can use to show he wasn't biased against him. By giving him an allowance, he showed flexibility and a willingness to listen.

That weakens a likely appeal.

But don't know. I'm not the judge.

[Rebl2]

64. Should not have

Should have had him removed from courtroom.

[agingdem]

76. He allowed it much in the same way Jack Smith did not initially

ask to sanction Trump at the time of his arraignments...when the deranged psychopath spews, there's a 99.99% change he confesses and fucks himself...and today Trump fucked himself...

[AdamGG]

95. The judge could see it was nonresponsive long before Dump spoke for 6 minutes

They should have cut him off after 30 seconds.

[getagrip_already]

98. but it was up to the judge, no?

And the judge does have the option to add, say a few million to the judgement.

And besides, he did admit to fraud in at least one instance, and probably more.

[AdamGG]

99. And since Trump is paying the money anyway...

he uses it as an opportunity to perform to his base.

[BlueKota]

3. When the F.ck is someone

going to hold that asshole responsible for defying the law? They say they will, but don't follow through!

[GregariousGroundhog]

25. I think the judge handled it fairly well

Gave Trump five minutes before telling him it was lunch time and that he had only one more minute. Then he cut Trump off and recessed for lunch. I wonder if there were any ketchup incidents.

[TwilightZone]

26. Agreed.

Much ado about nothing.

[fierywoman]

4. Dark orange face. Ghostly white hands.

[Bayard]

17. Ewww....

Haven't noticed his tiny, ghostly white hands before.

[machoneman]

54. Tiny for sure, like his lower member! Mushroom!

[Bayard]

85. I saw a court drawing of him tonight,

Where the artist made his hands the same color as his face.

There has to be a joke in that somewhere.

[Goddessartist]

23. That's the first thing I saw.

He looks terrible.

[Lonestarblue]

31. He really looks like a sick old man in that photo.

Really thick pancake makeup probably to hide his pallor and oddly white hands, especially the left one. Losing skin color can be a symptom of several diseases, including Addison’s Disease, diabetes and lupus. I would not be surprised if Trump has diabetes since his diet is terrible.

[birdographer]

36. His face is looking thinner and far older than six months ago

And that ridiculous animal on top of his head.

[BigmanPigman]

66. He looks like a lizard about to eat a fly.

[Rebl2]

67. Extremely white

Maybe not enough circulation to extremities?

[niyad]

83. May he be as seriously ill as he looks.

[malthaussen]

5. Allow me to add my voice wondering if anyone will hold this man accountable. n/t

[tonekat]

6. At least trump is too fat to jump over the bench

Like that lunatic in Vegas.

[AdamGG]

96. He's too much of a coward to engage in actual violence

He just tries to incite other people to do it for him.

[Fullduplexxx]

7. So the judge sets the boundries trump does whatever he wants and the judge lets him after everything the judge said

[vapor2]

8. Still claims he is the victim

BUT what about the 763, 000 covid deaths due to his inaction?

[Kid Berwyn]

9. "Sir! What's happened here is I'm the victim of fraud!"

LOL

[Hermit-The-Prog]

33. Isn't traitortrump supposed to have tears in his eyes when saying, "Sir"?

I've heard that's the protocol and pattern for such tales.

[SWBTATTReg]

10. Again showing that he is always a victim, no matter what the circumstances are. I'm glad that he's abused

his court privileges so much, that he's flaunted the normal decorum of a Courtroom of the US. Not everything, thank God, goes per tRUMP's direction and desires.

I, for one, am sick and tired of this nonstop loudmouth.

[bluestarone]

11. At the very least, should have had

TFG removed from the court room!

[MOMFUDSKI]

13. In

Handcuffs and gagged. WTF?

[Maeve]

12. The judge is trying to avoid future trouble

Or having his decision overturned for bias. He has been long-suffering and infinitely patient despite repeated violations. At least, that is my reading of him. He Is facing one of the world's most law-ignorant, stupidly self-important, staggering example of Dunning-Kruger syndrome and needs to keep his temper.

[InstantGratification]

30. I agree with respect to the judge being patient

I think another thing that makes the judge reluctant to jail him for contempt is that this is a civil trial, not criminal. There can be no jail time for what he is charged with. I think the judge is avoiding jail time because that would make the contempt of court punishment more than he could get from a guilty finding. Add that to the fact that this case is almost to the finish line and the judge is probably more than ready for this to be over with and just doesn't want to complicate the proceedings this close to the end.

I really hope when the federal trials get going that the judge lays down some ground rules for Trump (and MAGA to hear) before the trial starts, so that when he does cross the line, the whole world will know exactly what is coming for Trump and can't complain that he didn't know what he was getting into. Something like:

$10,000 for the first time he crosses the line.
$30,000 for the second time.
$100,000 plus 5 days confinement for the third time.
Another $100,000 and double the confinement for every subsequent violation. 10 days, then 20, then 40. Eventually the pain level gets high enough to sink into even Donnie Dimwit's thick skull.

[cilla4progress]

14. Fucking dirty fascist

Doesn't think he has to obey our laws.

Has no respect for country or Constitution.

Shit-stain on our history.

[prodigitalson]

15. this is why I have mixed feelings about televising his trials

he is going to try to take over the court rooms and force the judges to either martyr him with jail or let him be openly contemptuous.

[flashman13]

50. I don't think Judge Chutkan will put up with his bull shit.

[Bayard]

16. What happened to, "You're out of ORDER!"

And in contempt of court!? Throw his orange ass in jail already!

[Kid Berwyn]

18. "Control your client."

Here's Bobby Seale under control during the Chicago 7 Trial:



"Nod if you can hear me."

[bluestarone]

19. Is trial over now?

I hope so.

[getagrip_already]

28. Yes, just awaiting the verdict

Judge should have his decision soon. Probably a week or two.

[AverageOldGuy]

21. When? Never.

When will a judge have the balls to slap this asshole in jail, take away his phone, take away his visits with his lawyer?

NEVER.

They all are too goddam afraid of him and his minions.

When the Capitol Police officer shot Ashli whateverhernamewas he made only one mistake: The entire Capitol police force should have hosed the goddam crowd with automatic weapons fire, stacked the bodies ten high.

Merrick "Sleepy" Garland should have had Trump in federal prison the day after he (Garland) took office.

This is a goddam war and we need warriors. But we don't have any. Not one.

[PJMcK]

89. Garland...

Meh.

[iluvtennis]

22. In my opinion, tfg should have been held ion contempt of court and jailed for the night. So tired

of this white privileged cretin getting away with this shit.

[Alice Kramden]

57. Maybe we should call it

"orange privilege"

[apnu]

24. Trump is a spoiled toddler

70 going on 3.

[getagrip_already]

32. 77 actually, almost 78... going on 3

But who's counting?

[RainCaster]

29. If I was on this jury...

That fat bastard would be put away, or put in the electric chair, or fined at least $2.5B due immediately. Whatever the choices are, I would say, make it twice that. Add an extra fine for us poor jurists who had to listen to that jackass braying in the court room.

[former9thward]

40. There is no jury in this trial.

Just the judge.

[jmowreader]

78. However, this is a civil trial

Putting Trump in the electric chair for this is not really an option, especially because the State of New York abolished capital punishment many years ago.

However! Telling the Witless Mr. Trump to go get his shit out of Trump Tower by the end of the day because it no longer belongs to him is a definite possibility.

[pansypoo53219]

34. does fat gollum realize the judge gets to decide how much money he owes new york?

i hopwe he is charged a million before stupid word he said.

[Aviation Pro]

35. I can envision Engoron with one of those old timey adding machines

Just cha-chinging the judgement as Motherfucker speaks....

370M....
450M....
610M....
880M....
1.1B......
1.6B......

Here's your judgement, you stupid fuck.

2.3B....

Pay the fuck up.

[captain queeg]

38. He does look like shit. I'm good with that. I wish the fat fucker would just drop dead and we wouldn't have to listen

Or see him any more.

[Torchlight]

41. Less than a year ago, coworker in coffee-room would say over and over again of his trial:

"I'll believe it when I see it...but I am sure I won't ever see it."

She lost her shirt during a bitcoin collapse earlier this year. Bless her heart, she's a real prescient gem of dim light.

I just can't see anything at all coming out of this that works in his favor; I dig reading Lord of the Rings, but that's the farthest I go with fantasy. My guess is he's screwed and is only now beginning to realize it, also known as the state of Pre-screw.

[bucolic_frolic]

42. Whinings of a guilt-ridden soulless ego

[LudwigPastorius]

48. Soulless? Absolutely

But, guilt-ridden? Not Trump, never, no way.

[TNNurse]

44. I understand the all out threat of violence from locking him up,

but someone needs to lock him up for awhile and get his attention.

[PTL_Mancuso]

65. There's been plenty of violence with him roaming free. Lock him up on Devil's Island!

He should have been shut up and shut down on Jan.6 night. No waiting! No time for pundits to spin things. What the ever-loving fK is wrong with this country? Due process, my @$$! It's like when Obama came in with AG Holder who was afraid to do any damn thing with the DICK Cheney and his bumbling sidekick, W. Yeah, due process.

[orleans]

45. from the ap link:

Trump spoke as the judge was trying to find out if the former president would follow rules requiring him to keep his remarks focused on matters related to the trial. Asked whether he would comply with the guidelines, Trump defied the judge and simply launched into his speech.

that's because he's a dumbass and/or nuts

[Rocknation]

72. "Asked whether he would comply with the guidelines, Trump...simply launched into his speech..."

Immediately after which the judge should have simply charged him with contempt, tossed him in jail and ended the trial...


Rocknation

[flashman13]

46. The judge should have thrown Trump's fat ass in jail for contempt.

[LudwigPastorius]

47. I can only hope that ballooning blood vessel in Trump's head pops when he hears the...

multi-million dollar judgement he's going to have to pay.

[kairos12]

52. He gets away with. Per usual.

[Joinfortmill]

55. Trump is not looking good, people. Not good at all.

[peggysue2]

61. You're right

He looks like crap, even worse than normal.

[Bucky]

56. Drop the hammer on him. Contempt of court charges need to be immediate and substantial to Trump AND his attorneys

He knew the rules, his lawyers had been apprised of the rules and the need to only allow him to speak within very clear parameters in order to keep from turning the trial into a circus. He and his counselors openly defied the directives from the bench and need to be treated as the miscreants they are. This is the courtroom equivalent of tackling the referee.

It deserves to (but probably won't) include an overnight in jail

[mountain grammy]

59. He looks like shit.. hoping he drops dead.

soon would be nice...

[republianmushroom]

60. And what is trump's penalty ?

Nothing ?

[moniss]

62. White privilege to the max

because there is nowhere in America a person of color could just go off for 6 minutes like this in their trial. The judges and the bailiffs would take the person down within moments. We'll see if any of our media giants have the guts to show clips of all the times people of color burst out speaking in court and the results of doing that. I know it won't happen.

[Major Nikon]

68. A Man Who Is His Own Lawyer Has a Fool for a Client

Or in this case a "Fucking Moron" as Rex Tillerson so eloquently put it.

Trump was under the delusion the trial was about his guilt or innocence. That much had already been established by the summary judgement. The trial was only about to what extent he will be sanctioned. The orange dipshit's grandstanding in court is going to be very costly because it gives the judge even more examples that he 1) Showed no remorse for his crimes 2) Thumbed his nose at the rule of law 3) Didn't learn from his fuckups and will repeat them at the first opportunity.

[Warpy]

69. A tirade will backfire, I sincerely hope

After all, he's rather at the mercy of the judge in this one since Habba dropped the ball and didn't put in the paperwork for a jury trial. The judge will likely not be in a merciful mood. I rather think between the antics of TFG and the death threats from his cult, Judge Engoron didn't want to heaar a single word out of TFG's fat gob.

[orangecrush]

70. Still not in jail

When will someone get enough nerve to smack him with actual consequences.

[diane in sf]

73. tRump looks like a Yorkshire hog with orange paint on its face.

[Aussie105]

74. A lot of people have stood before a judge and said:

I don't respect his court.

I know better than you, judge.

The laws of the land don't apply to me.

Don't you know who I am? Or in Trump's case . . .don't you know who I think I am?

Be careful, I have friends . . . they will stick up for me!

Now in the history of all of lawyering, has any of that bluff and bluster done anyone any good?

[Kennah]

79. Desperation smells of Loaded Depends

[E. Normus]

87. Dear Lord,

I hope this little tantrum will cost him another hundred million.

[Snoopy 7]

88. Let this ignorant SOB rant

This SOB is not only ranting he's giving away evidence of his wrong doings. Not only is he doing that he is doing that he is insulting the judge who is also the jury, If he was in a regular court where he might sway at least one juror then that might work but this ignorant child of wealth, who has never had to earn anything on his own, is insulting the "jury" so I say let him rant hahaha...

[BlueNIndiana]

93. I totally agree

Let him throw his tantrum, hopefully he will pop a vessel and lie on the floor sobbing it's not fair and then someone can wipe the tears from his eyes and come come on honey your a big boy.

[sop]

90. Naturally, Trump will lie about this at his next Bund rally.

He'll tell the assembled mob of bloodthirsty MAGA loons Engoron ordered court bailiffs to wheel him out of court on a dolly, wearing a straightjacket and a Hannibal Lector mask.

[CarolinaNC]

91. donald trump and his shenanigans'

Ignore him COURT, just do your job.

[robbob]

92. "We have a situation where I'm an innocent man"...

Clarance Darrow he ain’t. Trump in court reminds me of this:

?si=3SKO8YgyD6YCzD8j

[bmichaelh]

97. Trump was rehearsing his speech for weeks

Now it has been disclosed that he was rehearsing his speech for weeks.

How pathetic.

Not sure how he thinks that will help on appeal.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-closing-argument/