Ex-Pentagon official: Captured spy plane seems fake

[Robb]

Ex-Pentagon official: Captured spy plane seems fake
Updated 12m ago

The unmanned spy plane recently captured by Iran appears to be a fake, according to a former Pentagon official.

The former official, who saw video footage of the drone on display in Iran, said not only is it the wrong color, but also the welds along the wing joints do not appear to conform to the stealth design that helps it avoid radar detection. The official requested anonymity because he is not authorized to release information on the drone matter.

Iran said it managed to gain control of the RQ-170 Sentinel electronically and guide it down as it flew over its airspace.

The former official also questioned why the landing gear was covered up when displayed by the Iranian military. In the footage, the drone's underside is obscured with banners that read: "We'll trample America underfoot" and "The U.S. cannot do a damn thing."



Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-12-14/iran-drone-united-states-spy-plane/51936376/1

[Scuba]

1. The welds on the wing joints look like masking tape. n/t

[MADem]

30. They do, don't they? nt

[TlalocW]

2. And why are they displaying it in a high school gym?

And over in the corner, aren't those other kids' science fair projects?

TlalocW

[annabanana]

3. So. . The pentagon lost a spy plane?

You'd think they'd keep closer track of them. If this one is a fake, and they know it's a fake, then they know Iran is lying. If this only "seems" to be fake, that means they've lost track of one and they don't know WHERE it is...

[tabatha]

7. Actually, I think they do know where it is.

Probably Iran cannot retrieve it. I think that is what I read.

Thus they will say nothing.

[caseymoz]

10. These drones are now very sophisticated.

They have some intelligence. They have also been known to "go rogue."

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/drone-113388-unmanned-aircraft.html
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-09/when-drones-go-rogue-friendly-skies-how-do-we-bring-them-home

So, it's completely believable that the Pentagon has lost one or few in Iran, and Iran, somehow gaining wind of it, has presented a false one.

And it could also mean that we've entered the Skynet-Terminator stage of automation . . .

[Angry Dragon]

11. They did lose track of one around the coast of Africa

in the last few days..............

[caseymoz]

12. They've also lost track of them over American soil.

Close to Washington, DC in fact.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-09/when-drones-go-rogue-friendly-skies-how-do-we-bring-them-home

As I said in post #10, these drones are getting more intelligent every generation. They can go rogue.

[rocktivity]

16. DING DING DING! Annabanana, you're our grand prize winner!

If...they know it's a fake, then they know Iran is lying. If this only "seems" to be fake, that means they've lost track of one...

But if they know it's fake and therefore Iran is lying, then why doesn't the Pentagon SAY that it's a fake and Iran is lying? And why don't they say so officially, through a currently employed Pentagon official who can dare to speak his name?


rocktivity

[knitter4democracy]

4. Um, they didn't guide that down electronically.

The landing gear is all messed up, and they broke the wing.

The color's definitely wrong, though.

[provis99]

5. so the Pentagon admits losing the plane, but the Iranians don't have it.

Ok, Pentagon...

[tabatha]

8. see #7

[tabasco]

6. Yah, that's why we axed for it back!

It's a really good fake!

[Angry Dragon]

9. Hey ......... I saw that plane in a 1950's- 1960's b-movie

[global1]

13. I Was Thinking It Was A Trojan Horse Diliberately Crashed In Iran.....

let the Iranian government think that they have the latest in technology - so as to make them go on a wild goose chase in trying to duplicate it. All the while we know that it is really a piece of junk tricked out to look like a technological wonder.

[MADem]

31. That's entirely within the realm of possibility. Of course, we'd want to go through all the

usual protocols; asking for it back (like the P3 and the Chinese awhile back), making fussy statements to the press, getting all "faux-hot" under the collar, etc.

Of course, if the color is wrong, then any pics they take of the thing, we know it's hokey before they say a word.

[Poll_Blind]

14. Not fake.

CBS: Obama asks Iran to return downed drone (VIDEO)

http://theaviationist.com/category/captured-stealth-drone/
Many worthwhile things to read at that link, above.

It's not fake.

PB

[Robb]

15. "We'll see how the Iranians respond."

In poker, that's known as "I call."

I'm still not buying it; see my earlier post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1450

[Poll_Blind]

17. No reason to promote conspiracies, Robb. You should really...

...read the material at The Aviationist. I wouldn't have provided it if I thought you'd just skip over it. Everything mentioned in the link in your post is addressed there...and more.

PB

[Robb]

20. He's guessing, same as me.

I think my guess is better.

[i_sometimes]

22. They have it.

"Aviation Week postulates that these elements suggest the designers have avoided 'highly sensitive technologies' due to the near certainty of eventual operational loss inherent with a single engine design and a desire to avoid the risk of compromising leading edge technology."

They have it, we lost it.

[leveymg]

42. They have it, but that's not it.

It really does look fake, and I believe it's a fiberglass mold taken off what was left of the real thing that sustained some damage from a missile or AA. They have the bottom closed off because the landing gear would be difficult to fake precisely.

They're not revealing the location of the real thing because the Iranians aren't stupid, knowing the Americans would probably lob a cruise missile at it, since we (wisely) decided not to send in a Seal Team to recapture it.

I have no idea why they used masking tape to put the "wings" on. But, nobody who knows anything about composites would use the term "weld." Here are some shots of the real thing.

[bhikkhu]

44. That's what I would think - a mock-up for public display

while the real thing is probably quite well hidden and secured.

[Little Tich]

21. Excellent link. Thanks.

[Renew Deal]

18. Why would we "ask for it back" if it was fake?

[MADem]

32. To make them believe that they have "the real thing" and not a glorified model airplane? nt

[jberryhill]

40. What would you do to make them believe it was real?

[Dragonbreathp9d]

19. I thought so as well

The material itself just doesn't look right

[cstanleytech]

23. I thought they "shot" it down? If it was a hack then how do we know they didnt hack before it even

entered their air space?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. Cheney had it towed to the high school gym

[ellisonz]

25. Photo for comparison:

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/05/9-tools-that-probably-helped-the-us-military-catch-bin-laden/

I think it's a fake too. We lost a drone, but they haven't found it. The idea that Dick Cheney proposed to bomb it is idiotic because if we knew where it was it wouldn't be lost. It's easy to find more images...

[dipsydoodle]

26. Sounds like sour grapes to me

If its a fake how come Obama asked for it back ?

[hunter]

27. The real one is lost, sitting on a hook like bait, or disassembled in an Iranian lab.

So the Iranians made a model for Iranian Press and TV.

Wouldn't the USA like to see the who, whats, hows, and wheres of an Iranian military engineering facility? Can't take press or propaganda photos there.

So Iran probably puts a quick and dirty model in a high school gym... if that transparent deception twists the underwear of USA observers, that's good too.

[Odin2005]

28. it looks like a cheap plastic toy, not a real drone.

[cosmicone]

29. psy-ops to make Iranians doubt themselves n/t

[MADem]

33. Why are they hiding the undercarriage under those silly posters and a couple of bedspreads?

The undercarriage is where you'd be able to really see what's what. Could it be that this thing has no undercarriage at all...left? Or maybe they couldn't get round to mocking that up believably?

And why is the floor wet with what looks like hastily mopped-up oil or hydraulic fluid?

I am betting that is a base gymnasium, maybe dating to the Shah era, that hasn't seen much use for its intended purpose of late.

[Bucky]

36. They may have overwaxed the floors, but I'm sure the kids' gyms in Iran get a lot of use.

A few years ago I worked for an Iranian guy and he was constantly engaged in fundraising trying to build schools in Iran. They had a population boom in the 80s and from how he described it the country was obsessed with playing educational catch up. What few facilities they have, they take care of.

[MADem]

38. I do not think that is a "kid's" gym. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

I think that is a gym associated with a military barracks for enlisted personnel. They probably chose to use it because the bunkers where the weapons are stored, and the hangars, are too dark to permit decent filming/staging.

I also think that the stuff on the floor is oil or hydraulic fluid--not something that would be used to clean or wax the floor. It's not water, but it is pooled on top of the finish.

[Bucky]

34. I feel sorry for the kids who can't have PE cause of this spy plane in their gym.

I'll bet they canceled co-ed basketball practice for this.

[Robb]

35. I think co-ed basketball was canceled a looooong time ago.

[thescreaminghead]

37. Well duh...

Of course they're gonna say that to save face. Those idiots lost that drone and that's that. We should be bombing the crap out of them right now.

And no, I'm no Republican hawk. Total Dem. But we should be crapping on Iran.

[Wind Dancer]

41. Why?

[JohnyCanuck]

43. Because if the MIC is going to soak US taxpayers by selling them more bombs....

the US has to use up some of the bombs it already has in inventory. Iran just happens to be the bogey man du jour who would make a convenient target.

[unionworks]

39. thanks

For a very interesting thread! Actually, any of the above theories may be true....

[MADem]

45. Latest theory/rumor: Pilot error/crash, and a bit of PAINT, no less!

If it did crash, I'm guessing the undercarriage and maybe some of the "good" bits didn't make it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203733304577102504272876554.html

WASHINGTON—U.S. officials believe the downed spy drone on display in Iran crashed and broke into several pieces, and the Iranians reassembled it to make it appear as though it landed intact.

Officials also believe the Iranians repainted the drone, perhaps to conceal damage done to the body of the plane. In an Iranian video, the drone appears to be white, whereas the actual one is charcoal gray, they said....With one of the most-sophisticated U.S. spy planes now in Iranian hands, U.S. officials continue work to assess how much U.S. intelligence capability may have been compromised. Iran's ability to reassemble the drone and put it on display has prompted U.S. lawmakers to ask why the unmanned drone lacked a feature that caused it to self-destruct if it malfunctioned, a congressional official said.

U.S. officials familiar with the American assessment of the incident forcefully dispute Tehran's assertion and say the pilot lost control of the craft. "They did not commandeer it and steer it to the ground," said an Obama administration official. "It crashed, and they put it back together to make it look whole, like a puzzle being put back together."....they believe the plane broke into three or more pieces when it crash-landed...