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BumRushDaShow

(129,068 posts)
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 06:42 PM Feb 16

Pesticide linked to reproductive issues found in Cheerios, Quaker Oats and other oat-based foods

Source: CBS News

Updated on: February 16, 2024 / 1:32 PM EST


A little-heard-of pesticide linked to infertility in animals is showing up in the overwhelming majority of oat-based foods sold in the United States, including popular cereal brands Quaker Oats and Cheerios.

The chemical, chlormequat, was detected in 77 of 96 urine samples taken from 2017 and 2023, with levels increasing in the most recent years, a new study by the Environmental Working Group finds. Further, chlormequat was found in 92% of oat-based foods sold in May 2023, including Quaker Oats and Cheerios, according to the research published Thursday in the Journal of Exposure Science and Environmental Epidemiology.

Some studies have shown chlormequat can damage the reproductive system and disrupt fetal growth in animals, a cause for concern as to "whether it could also harm humans," EWG stated.

Environmental Protection Agency regulations allow chlormequat to be used on ornamental plants only, not food crops, grown the U.S. However, its use has been allowed since 2018 on imported oats and other foods sold across the country, and the EPA is now proposing to let chlormequat be used on barley, oat, triticale and wheat grown in the U.S — a plan the EWG opposes.

Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cheerios-quaker-oats-infertility-chemicals-in-cereal-ewg/



Link to EWG PRESS RELEASE - New peer-reviewed EWG study finds little-known toxic crop chemical in four out of five people tested
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Pesticide linked to reproductive issues found in Cheerios, Quaker Oats and other oat-based foods (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Feb 16 OP
Hello Class Action!!! no_hypocrisy Feb 16 #1
Ohhhh! I love Cheerios! I guess I"m glad I don't get Cheerios all of the time, perhaps 1 or 2 boxes a year. SWBTATTReg Feb 16 #2
There are Organic equivalents StClone Feb 16 #10
My wife hasn't been pregnant in nearly 40 years. I know she has been eating Cheerios. twodogsbarking Feb 16 #3
Damn it - I love Cheerios and Quaker Oats jpak Feb 16 #4
It's all about the benjamins. Cereal companies have lobbyists. Cereal eaters do not. Midnight Writer Feb 16 #5
Yup jpak Feb 16 #7
the oatligarchy orthoclad Feb 17 #33
Never forget... GiqueCee Feb 18 #49
For oats, try Bob's Red Mill organic oats RandomNumbers Feb 17 #40
I love Bob's Red Mill cereals, too Random Boomer Feb 18 #46
And in the news the past week BumRushDaShow Feb 18 #48
Glyphosate is one of the big contaminants of oats womanofthehills Feb 17 #41
Thanks for for the info jpak Feb 18 #50
The food is poisoning us bucolic_frolic Feb 16 #6
Argggghhhhh. I love to eat Cheerios. Owl Feb 16 #8
Why should the repukes bother trying to outlaw birth control Wicked Blue Feb 16 #9
The thing for me, is ... Diamond_Dog Feb 16 #11
Yes, glyphosate is in Goddessartist Feb 17 #26
I really do believe Diamond_Dog Feb 17 #28
We have a garden every year, as much as we can here. Goddessartist Feb 17 #29
In the Roundup lawsuits (glyphosate) womanofthehills Feb 17 #42
When there are hundreds of potential orthoclad Feb 17 #34
How about all the reproductive problems of those who were pregnant slightlv Feb 16 #12
You know what I wonder about? llmart Feb 16 #13
Cheerios for toddlers has been my concern as well BumRushDaShow Feb 16 #16
We also need to clean house in the EPA. Delmette2.0 Feb 17 #23
You are absolutely correct, Delmette2.0 Diamond_Dog Feb 17 #27
We definitely need to clean up FDA & EPA womanofthehills Feb 17 #43
As I sit here..... BigOleDummy Feb 16 #14
"If you can't beat 'em" Blue Idaho Feb 16 #15
Exactly... slightlv Feb 16 #18
We use the wrong paradigm orthoclad Feb 17 #35
Should not be surprising that oats are a target for pesticides, given that soldierant Feb 16 #17
Those of us with green thumbs are going to make out like bandits. slightlv Feb 16 #19
I can't grow anything either - but even if I could, I wouldn't be trying grains. soldierant Feb 16 #20
Where are the imported oats coming from? Old Crank Feb 17 #21
From Canada & USA womanofthehills Feb 17 #44
Chloroquat is essentially chlorocholine, choline being an essential molecule of physiological importance. NNadir Feb 17 #22
Capitalism takes us in strange and sometimes destructive directions SouthernDem4ever Feb 17 #25
Excellent anti-Panic points here! BUT! Why is this illegal substance in food crops??? PTL_Mancuso Feb 17 #30
I have had occasion professionally to evaluate certain types of industrial compounds in human plasma. NNadir Feb 17 #31
You are right about media hype and existence of much more serious issues, however, PTL_Mancuso Feb 17 #37
I am a scientist, have access to all the Nature journals and I don't take this paper all that seriously. NNadir Feb 17 #38
I appreciate your well-reasoned and presented responses! PTL_Mancuso Feb 17 #39
"There is a difference between detection and physiological importance." Well stated. honest.abe Feb 17 #32
One other issue Old Crank Feb 17 #24
this is what i know about growing oats, told to me by an organic farmer- mopinko Feb 17 #36
Cinnamon Cheerios are food crack!!! wolfie001 Feb 17 #45
Does anyone know DownriverDem Feb 18 #47
There may not be any safe cereals Submariner Feb 18 #51

jpak

(41,758 posts)
4. Damn it - I love Cheerios and Quaker Oats
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 06:57 PM
Feb 16

I'm switching to Special K until they find out what its contaminant(s) are...ugh.

Why-oh-why is EPA proposing to import this stuff?...ugh x 2...




orthoclad

(2,910 posts)
33. the oatligarchy
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 12:05 PM
Feb 17

Pesticides mean money.
Money in the pockets of the agri-rich.
Money from the pockets of sickened people.

GiqueCee

(631 posts)
49. Never forget...
Sun Feb 18, 2024, 04:51 PM
Feb 18

... their profits are more important than your life. Or the lives of your children.
And then there are the neonicotinoids that kill honey bees and other pollinators. Most civilized countries have banned them. We haven't.
Hugh Grant (not the actor), the one time CEO of Monsanto, said, "... [In the future] no food will be grown that we don't own." When monsters tell you who, and what, they are, it is wisest to believe them.

RandomNumbers

(17,600 posts)
40. For oats, try Bob's Red Mill organic oats
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 04:15 PM
Feb 17

It's a great company. Employee-owned. Also from the EWG link (emphasis mine):

EWG conducted its own tests of oat-based foods in 2022 and 2023, finding chlormequat in numerous non-organic oat-based products. Organic oat products had little to no detections of the chemical.

Random Boomer

(4,168 posts)
46. I love Bob's Red Mill cereals, too
Sun Feb 18, 2024, 09:19 AM
Feb 18

We can't find them in the local stores anymore, so I order batches of the Mighty Tasty Hot Cereal online.

BumRushDaShow

(129,068 posts)
48. And in the news the past week
Sun Feb 18, 2024, 12:58 PM
Feb 18

was that "Bob" of "Bob's Red Mills" just passed away - Goodbye to Bob Moore, Whose Red Mill Changed the Way We Bake

They had specialty flour like teff, that I couldn't get (at least at the time I needed some to do some Ethiopian recipes) from King Arthur (that itself has a huge selection of flour from a variety of grains).

womanofthehills

(8,712 posts)
41. Glyphosate is one of the big contaminants of oats
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 09:48 PM
Feb 17

American & Canadian farmers often spray glyphosate right before harvest so plants dry uniformly and weeds die making harvest easier.

This is done on the Florida & Louisiana sugar crops too - so always buy organic oats, wheat, sugar, lentils, soy etc.

You can but organic oat cereals. But there is often cross contamination of fields so organic will probably have some - but less glyphosate.

bucolic_frolic

(43,175 posts)
6. The food is poisoning us
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 07:08 PM
Feb 16

Not all the time, not all brands. I am very sensitive to different brands of ice cream. It's the stretchers and fillers. Also some brands. The top half of the carton will make me sick (because it's exposed to air as they seal it), while the bottom half does not.

Grains are a crap shoot. I guess I'm going to have to try organic all the way. Breads are same, some good some bad. I've eliminated most pork and turkey because of carbadox and ractopamine. And finally my inflammation is settling down. I've gone very light on oats for about 8 months. It just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I do notice McCann's Irish oats don't bother me!

Doctors are no help. They only treat symptoms and never get down to the root cause of illness.

Wicked Blue

(5,834 posts)
9. Why should the repukes bother trying to outlaw birth control
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 07:20 PM
Feb 16

when their corporate masters can wipe out the population's fertility all by themselves

Diamond_Dog

(32,005 posts)
11. The thing for me, is ...
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 08:11 PM
Feb 16

If chlormequat can damage an animal’s reproductive system, do I really want to eat something laden with it? What else does it harm? Is it a carcinogen?

Oats have been found to contain glyphosate, as well.
https://oatsincoats.com/blogs/news/should-you-buy-glyphosate-free-oats-for-your-kids#:~:text=Glyphosate%20in%20oats%20exploded%20as,they%20deemed%20safe%20for%20kids.

Mr.Diamond loves his breakfast cereal, but we only buy organic cereal. Cascadian Farms Organic Purely O’s is the same thing as Cheerios but without the chemicals. It comes in Honey Nut, MultinGrain, and a couple other varieties. We buy it at our local grocery store.

EPA should ban both of those chemicals in cereal grains, IMO.

Goddessartist

(1,800 posts)
26. Yes, glyphosate is in
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 10:34 AM
Feb 17

most of our food, so we only buy non GMO organic. I can't have gluten or sugar or dairy - I have EDS and it messes with my digestion - IBS from the EDS.

The horses that were dying in droves at the racetracks were, no doubt, being fed glyphosate filled food, which basically terrorizes the body, and makes bones snap.

Yes, the EPA should ban both chemicals.

Diamond_Dog

(32,005 posts)
28. I really do believe
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 10:55 AM
Feb 17

Chemicals in processed foods cause cancer. Hormones in meat as well. Granted, it impossible to escape it 100% but in my house we buy organic everything whenever possible. I am lucky that Mr. Diamond plants a veggie garden too.

Why did I get cancer 15 years ago? No one as far back as we have researched in my family ever had it even though they say it’s hereditary (breast cancer). I don’t smoke …. I always wonder if it was hormones in chicken (which you can buy hormone free now, thankfully)

Goddessartist

(1,800 posts)
29. We have a garden every year, as much as we can here.
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 11:00 AM
Feb 17

I'm glad your cancer is gone - I've lost two siblings to it, one to non Hodgkins lymphoma, and guess what? Our parents used all of the weed killer stuff growing up. Lost our sister Mary to ovarian cancer, which runs in our family.

Sending you lots of love.

womanofthehills

(8,712 posts)
42. In the Roundup lawsuits (glyphosate)
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 09:57 PM
Feb 17

The cancer is usually non-hodgkins lymphoma.

“Bayer fights string of Roundup trial losses including $2.25B verdict in Philadelphia
The Bayer Corporation has spent more than $10 billion to settle lawsuits that claim the popular weed killer Roundup causes cancer”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/bayer-fights-string-roundup-trial-losses-including-225b-107230214

orthoclad

(2,910 posts)
34. When there are hundreds of potential
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 12:11 PM
Feb 17

carcinogens in the air, water, and food, it's damn near impossible to trace the cause of a cancer. And pollution is not the only cause of cancer.
This is corporate camouflage. They cover for each other by obscuring the trail.

slightlv

(2,818 posts)
12. How about all the reproductive problems of those who were pregnant
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 08:49 PM
Feb 16

and eating this stuff?! Both me and my daughter spent most of our pregnancies in problem-ob throughout our terms. Both of us had kids with problems. Both of us were told not to have any more children. How much of this can we lay at their feet? It's damned scary when the very food you pay dearly for you don't know whether or not its safe to eat!

llmart

(15,540 posts)
13. You know what I wonder about?
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 09:01 PM
Feb 16

Most toddlers love to eat Cheerios for a snack. My little granddaughter used to love them. Mothers think they're doing the right thing by giving them something that isn't laden with sugar.

We need much stricter food regulations in our country. The last thing we need is to go overseas to source our food.

BumRushDaShow

(129,068 posts)
16. Cheerios for toddlers has been my concern as well
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 09:35 PM
Feb 16

given that it was often recommended - not just due to being "heart healthy oats" with minimal sugar but also because it will dissolve in the mouth for those little ones still getting those teeth.

Delmette2.0

(4,166 posts)
23. We also need to clean house in the EPA.
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 08:19 AM
Feb 17

We have too many corporate stooges running the agency. Why would anyone consider approving something so damaging?

Shhhhh...did someone say money?

womanofthehills

(8,712 posts)
43. We definitely need to clean up FDA & EPA
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 10:04 PM
Feb 17

Lawsuits are being won against Bayer for non Hodgkin’s lymphoma cases - from Roundup. Our FDA & EPA still basically claim it’s safe.

Blue Idaho

(5,049 posts)
15. "If you can't beat 'em"
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 09:33 PM
Feb 16

Join ‘em? Are you kidding me? So instead of protecting Americans from a known poison the regulators plan on rolling over and allowing anyone to sell their toxic shit in our marketplace. WTF people, WTF?

slightlv

(2,818 posts)
18. Exactly...
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 10:13 PM
Feb 16

where ARE our regulators? I remember when our food safety was suppose to be par excellence, bar none. Gods, the corruption in this country, from the least to the highest!

I agree about the worries about all the kids eating cheerios as snacks. We've been sold on that for a long time -- even when I was a child. I remember my sis eating them, and getting them stuck all over her face!

But today, when women's autonomy has been taken away from them; when they no longer can make their own health decisions, they truly are stacking the deck against us. It's like they're setting women up to carry pregnancies that are high risk, and then denying them the ability to save their own lives.

Some of those little kids will grow up to carry their own high risk pregnancy. Pray we've gotten our human rights restored to us by then. Because from the littlest to the oldest of us still with a uterus and ovaries, I can't help but feel they've just found another way to kill us. Yeah, hyperbole much? But then that's what everyone was saying when I was screaming about Roe v Wade long before they stripped it from us. And I ain't letting up. I've got a daughter still of child bearing years, and I've got 2 nieces I worry about. And a whole lifetime of reproductive problem issues - some that do and some that don't revolve around pregnancy. But that ain't the only thing they're coming for. IVH and HRT is on their list, as well as contraceptives. These Xtianists won't be satisfied until we all live under the terror they've been taught they have to bear - simply for being born a woman. It's a sin and retribution for the apple... argh...! (and it was a quince!)

soldierant

(6,880 posts)
17. Should not be surprising that oats are a target for pesticides, given that
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 10:05 PM
Feb 16

more and more people are finding that they have issues with wheat. My BFF was recently diagnosed with gluten intolerance associted with menopause. If menopause can bring on (or aggravate and therefore reveal) intolerance to wheat or one of its components, increased reliance on oats appears likely - and likely to lead to more contamination over time.

slightlv

(2,818 posts)
19. Those of us with green thumbs are going to make out like bandits.
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 10:16 PM
Feb 16

Others of us with black thumbs, not so much. I can buy a plant from the store, bring it home, and as soon as it hits my house its like it dies in terror! (LOL) Didn't used to be this way. I did real well down in S. Texas. Moved up here to KS, and haven't been able to get anything to grown since then, no matter what I've tried. The only thing I've had luck with is hydro-gardening.

soldierant

(6,880 posts)
20. I can't grow anything either - but even if I could, I wouldn't be trying grains.
Fri Feb 16, 2024, 10:24 PM
Feb 16

For one thing, it takes so much of them to feed even one person for any length of time.

Old Crank

(3,589 posts)
21. Where are the imported oats coming from?
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 05:55 AM
Feb 17

Plus how much is detected, and at what levels might this cause infertility problems in the mammals tested?

The EU does seem to allow its use. There are guidelines as to how much residual chemical can be in grain and certain meats.

Here is a long, comprehensive,and boring paper.

https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa.2020.5982

womanofthehills

(8,712 posts)
44. From Canada & USA
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 10:20 PM
Feb 17

US sugar (Florida & Louisiana) is also sprayed with glyphosate just before harvest - actually makes it sweeter.

“Why Is Glyphosate Sprayed on Crops Right Before Harvest?”

“Glyphosate, the main ingredient in Monsanto‘s Roundup herbicide, is recognized as the world’s most widely used weed killer. What is not so well known is that farmers also use glyphosate on crops such as wheat, oats, edible beans and other crops right before harvest, raising concerns that the herbicide could get into food products.

Glyphosate has come under increased scrutiny in the past year. Last year the World Health Organization’s cancer group, the International Agency for Research on Cancer, classified it as a probable carcinogen. The state of California has also moved to classify the herbicide as a probable carcinogen. A growing body of research is documenting health concerns of glyphosate as an endocrine disruptor and that it kills beneficial gut bacteria, damages the DNA in human embryonic, placental and umbilical cord cells and is linked to birth defects and reproductive problems in laboratory animals.

What is not so well known is that farmers also use glyphosate on crops such as wheat, oats, edible beans and other crops right before harvest. “

https://www.ecowatch.com/roundup-cancer-1882187755.html

( there are American labs that will test how much glyphosate you have in your body - I know at one point Moms Across America- was studying this and directing people to where they could get tested. )

NNadir

(33,525 posts)
22. Chloroquat is essentially chlorocholine, choline being an essential molecule of physiological importance.
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 07:09 AM
Feb 17

In the presence of salt, cooking food can and does generate chloromequat:

Occurrence of the Plant Growth Regulator Chlormequat in Food May Be Due to Natural Formation: A Preliminary Mechanistic Study Bjørn Eriksen, Aurélien Desmarchelier, Nancy Frank, Richard H. Stadler, and Thierry Delatour Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 2020 68 (29), 7727-7733.

A graphic from that paper showing the structural relationships:



By adding salt to an egg/wheat powder mix and heating it, the authors showed the generation of chlormequat.

The authors concluded thus:

Our findings suggest that 1 is a ubiquitous chemical available in heat-processed and home-cooked foods. It is worth mentioning that the heating conditions applied in our study (200 °C for 30–60 min) reflect those used at home in the oven. As far as compliance of a raw material is concerned, our results suggest that extreme care should be paid in managing the quality control of raw materials traded worldwide, particularly processed ingredients that usually undergo thermal treatment before being introduced in the product manufacturing process. Indeed, our results show that the formation of 1 is effective in egg powder (levels in the range 20–40 ?g/kg with 10–20 min of heat treatment at 200 °C), while significantly less in wheat flour (levels below 5 ?g/kg under the same conditions). However, maximum residue limits (MRLs) for 1 differ significantly in egg and wheat. MRLs in wheat have been established at 2 and 7 mg/kg by Codex Alimentarius (25) and the European Union, (26) respectively, thereby giving at first glance sufficient margin for preventing risks of noncompliance in wheat flour. Conversely, MRLs in egg are much lower, 100 ?g/kg at Codex Alimentarius (25) and 150 ?g/kg in the European Union, (26) putting this material at much higher risks of noncompliance if controlled as a heat-prepared powder. Ultimately, we encourage food operators to pay attention to this risk in processed ingredients, especially those with low MRL, (25,26) for avoiding unfortunate disruptions of the food supply chain.


The concentrations found in the original paper that has been mangled by journalists, as most journalistic interpretations of science are, Temkin, A.M., Evans, S., Spyropoulos, D.D. et al. A pilot study of chlormequat in food and urine from adults in the United States from 2017 to 2023. J Expo Sci Environ Epidemiol (2024).

It is notable that the matrix utilized in their study was urine, not plasma, and thus may show a short biological half-life, that is after exposure it is quickly pissed away. In mass balance studies, we often follow the physiological fate of molecules.

As a herbicide, chloromequat interferes with gibberellin synthesis, with the gibberellins being plant complex terpenoid hormones generated for stem growth and other aspects of plant physiology. Selective breeding of grain crops is thought to have selected for reduced gibberellin synthesis, leading to higher yields in crops, as a result of the "green revolution" (agricultural and not connected to the much hyped but questionably existent failed energy policies also discussed in our media). This "green revolution" unlike the failed energy "green revolution" is thought to have saved billions of lives.

It is known to interact with some of the cytochrome P450s which have evolved in all living things and are involved in biochemical transformations. One such transformation is metabolism of toxins. This study would have been more useful if it followed plasma levels and included metabolomic features.

I suspect that this is a tempest in a teapot to use the cliche.

I frequently joke that one cannot get a degree in journalism if one has passed a college level science course. People have been cooking food for many tens of thousands of years, often salted foods.

Mass spectrometry, with which I am professionally involved, is an extremely sensitive technology, capable of detecting, and in fact quantitating, molecules at the scale now routinely at the low picogram per ml level. There is a huge difference between the level of detection and physiological effects. We can now see and detect things that have been in the environment for a very long time but were not previously detectable. There is a difference between detection and physiological importance.

In many ways, we see culturally aspects of the novel "A Handmaiden's Tale" which included reference to mass sterility among women. This part of the novel has yet to be observed, although the re-subjugation of women is underway.



 

PTL_Mancuso

(276 posts)
30. Excellent anti-Panic points here! BUT! Why is this illegal substance in food crops???
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 11:08 AM
Feb 17
Chlormequat is approved only for ornamental plants and not for food crops! Industrial farm corporations and private farmers know this and yet it is being found in so many grain crops, probably from chemicals sprayed onto the plants while they are growing. I would have to guess that the manufacturers of these chemicals are well aware of what the laws are, so why would they be selling mass quantities to food-crop farmers?

Here's a google search (I've stripped out the tracking crap ggl likes to sneak in) that likely shows some of the corporations that sell to non-ornamental farming concerns. If I get a chance I'll try to find the main food-farming dealers.

[link:https://www.google.com/search?q=chlormequat+chloride+manufacturer|

NNadir

(33,525 posts)
31. I have had occasion professionally to evaluate certain types of industrial compounds in human plasma.
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 11:23 AM
Feb 17

If one tries, for instance, to find blank plasma that is not contaminated with lithium, one will fail. Because of the battery industry, every living thing on this planet now has detectable and measurable lithium in it. It is now effectively endogenous. So are many plastics. So are certain anti-infectives, and a number of pharmaceutical metabolites excreted in urine and feces that can be found in every body of water on the planet, and thus in organisms that ingest that water.

The authors note of the paper I cited indicated a possible source of this compound resulting from cooking. A similar case can be found for the highly carcinogenic nitrosamines, which result from cooking meat, in particular meat with certain classes of preservatives, but also of meat with no preservatives. Nitrosamines are also formed in certain industrial chemical reactions as well; they are regulated for instance in pharmaceutical ingredients including the active substances, but they are unregulated in backyard grills.

The authors of the paper cited by the media types to generate the hype did not identify the source of the compound they question, only its presence in urine. Frankly, based on my own experience and general reading, I think the science in the paper generating all this concern is not of very high quality, and the media hype of it border on the insane press hysteria about the Fukushima Tuna Fish.

The authors of the original paper on finding a radionuclide clearly from Fukushima in a tuna fish - it was a very good paper devoted to understanding the migration patterns of tuna in the Atlantic - were appalled by the media hype resulting from their paper and published the somewhat pained reaction to it in the same journal, which can be found in the link at the end of my last paragraph.

Trust me, there are far more serious issues than this, the main ones being air pollution and water pollution.

 

PTL_Mancuso

(276 posts)
37. You are right about media hype and existence of much more serious issues, however,
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 01:52 PM
Feb 17

According to this article in Nature (Nature: Journal of Exposure Science & Environmental Epidemiology) (italics mine)

This study reports the detection of chlormequat, an agricultural chemical with developmental and reproductive toxicity, in the U.S. population and U.S. food supplies for the first time. While similar levels of the chemical were found in urine sampled from 2017 to 2022, markedly increased levels were found in samples from 2023. This work highlights the need for more expansive monitoring of chlormequat in U.S. foods and in human specimens, as well as toxicological and epidemiological study on chlormequat, as this chemical is an emerging contaminant with documented evidence of low-dose adverse health effects in animal studies.

[link:https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00643-4.pdf|

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist and it is a small study and the references to food contamination are pretty small and with no previous data for comparison, I'm interested to see what larger statistical samples and studies might reveal.

Maybe we will know more by the time most of the terrestrial earth has become aquatic. 8^)

NNadir

(33,525 posts)
38. I am a scientist, have access to all the Nature journals and I don't take this paper all that seriously.
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 02:59 PM
Feb 17

This is a Nature Journal, not Nature itself. Even if it were in the parent journal Nature, it could still be meaningless.

Nature does not claim to be quasi-biblical or oracular. In fact papers are often retracted in or by Nature, as this rather long list shows:

Retractions, Nature

Nature is a deservedly well respected journal, but its content, and even more so the content of its daughter journals can be, and sometimes are misleading and even completely wrong.

I am decidedly not saying that this paper should be retracted, by the way, I'm simply saying that I'm personally not impressed with what is being reported, but that to which I really, really, really object is the way the paper has been picked up by journalists. As science, my opinion is that the paper is OK; the science as done is legitimate or extremely likely to be so, but no meaningful conclusion can be drawn from it and the media interpretation is clearly absurd.

We can say that the amount of sugar in a brand of donuts "has increased" but this does not imply a massive outbreak of type 2 diabetes, particularly if the original reading for sugar content was below an action level.

The authors plainly offer the opinion that there should be more tox studies, and allude to "some evidence" but without more definition of risk whether or not concentrations increase or decrease is without consequence. Maybe they're applying for grants. A lot of what is written in the scientific literature seems to be oriented around getting or maintaining grants.

There are certain journalist trigger words that are very poorly used and often highly misleading. These include "pesticides,"
"radioactive," "Fukushima" and, in energy "Megawatt," "Homes" (as a putative unit of energy), and as we see in politics recently "old" and "her emails." The interpretation of these trigger words is amplified by media harping on them, but if one pulls the curtain back, to see the "Wizard" behind it, one is surprised to understand how much of it is balderdash.

Our journalism or what passes for "journalism" is crappier than ever, is designed to avoid critical thinking, and is particularly bad whenever science is discussed.


 

PTL_Mancuso

(276 posts)
39. I appreciate your well-reasoned and presented responses!
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 03:54 PM
Feb 17

If only you and your fellow scientists could have a (much) bigger part in what the public "learns"!!!

Thank you!

honest.abe

(8,678 posts)
32. "There is a difference between detection and physiological importance." Well stated.
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 11:37 AM
Feb 17

Also the dose makes the poison. Many things we routinely ingest can be deadly at a high enough dosage and also we ingest many common toxins but they are low enough dose they have zero effect and also some toxic substances can be beneficial at low doses like some medicines.

These are difficult concepts for some people to understand however so we sometimes get hysteria over nothing.

Old Crank

(3,589 posts)
24. One other issue
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 09:05 AM
Feb 17

The article says detected. What type of concentration was detected? Chemistry these days can find stuff at the molecule level in samples.

mopinko

(70,115 posts)
36. this is what i know about growing oats, told to me by an organic farmer-
Sat Feb 17, 2024, 01:01 PM
Feb 17

oats need to b dry to harvest. if u r lucky, the weather dries it just right. if u arent, u need to do something to get it to dry. i have no idea the mechanism, but commercial growers spray roundup, or similar, a set time b4 the harvest. the time lag is supposed to let it dissipate, but…

the oats he grew were in the middle of his fields, to protect them from overspray from neighboring farms. iirc, he did have some kind of organic drying agent that he used. no idea what.
i believe he did convert a couple neighbors. great little farm.

Submariner

(12,504 posts)
51. There may not be any safe cereals
Sun Feb 18, 2024, 07:18 PM
Feb 18

When my doctor declared me type 2 diabetic, I was banned from eating any cereal or drinking milk products.

He said cereals are highly processed. I took his advice and I'm better for it, but still crave a bowl of frosted mini-wheats.

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