Israel briefs US on plan to move Gazans ahead of Rafah invasion

[brooklynite]

Source: Politico

The Israeli military has informed aid groups and the Biden administration of a plan to begin removing Gazans from Rafah ahead of an invasion, according to a U.S. official and two other people familiar with the situation.

The Israel Defense Forces recently told the U.S. government and aid groups operating on the ground that they had developed a plan to move people out of Rafah, the main humanitarian hub in the enclave, to al-Mawasi, a small strip of land on the southern Gaza coast. The IDF sent a map of the area to aid workers this week, a copy of which POLITICO obtained.

The Biden administration has repeatedly urged Israel to avoid an invasion of Rafah unless it has a plan to protect civilians sheltering there.
The IDF told aid groups the Rafah invasion will move ahead “soon” but did not give a specific date, the two people familiar said.


Read more: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/03/israel-gazans-rafah-invasion-00156024

[Voltaire2]

1. Another genocidal act.

[EX500rider]

3. So it's "genocide" to move civilians out of the way of up coming urban combat?

Seem more like the opposite would be true

[OrangeJoe]

4. Where's Daddy and Project Lavender

Here's a little piece you might want to watch to see why people are claiming that Israel is committing war crimes. Project "Where's Daddy" is an IDF program that uses cell phone data to follow Hamas members and then bomb them when they are in their homes with their families. The program authorizes the IDF to kill over 100 civilians if the target is a senior Hamas commander. This information was provided by investigating reporting in Israel.

The link is to The Hill web cast.

[Voltaire2]

5. Population removal is one of the qualifying acts.

[EX500rider]

6. Moving them a few miles for their own safety is hardly a qualifying act of genocide...

Last edited Fri May 3, 2024, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Stalin starving 5 million Ukrainians to death and moving certain segments (like the Cossacks) to Siberia it is not

[TeamProg]

21. Wow, just, wow.

So great, ‘it’s all okay then’.

[EX500rider]

32. Well if they want to wipe out Hamas they can't give them a safe Zone can they

Nothing about war is okay, it's all about people dying

[TeamProg]

33. Calling it a war doesn't make it one. It's ethnic cleaning. Has Israel suffered the complete bombardment of schools,

homes, hospitals and businesses like in an actual war? No ? Then this is not a war, it’s a plan to ethnically cleanse Israel.

[NickB79]

36. Israel DID suffer bombardment of schools, hospitals, homes, etc

For decades Hamas lobbed rockets into Israel. Tens of thousands of them.

That's why they spent billions on Iron Dome, to shoot them down.

And then there were the dozens of suicide bombers that killed hundreds of Israelis by targeting buses full of civilians, prompting the border walls and checkpoints.

How do you just ignore DECADES of history leading up to this?

[TeamProg]

37. That was a while ago and I'm sure the Iron Dome has helped, yes. There were also terrorist incursions of Israelis

in Palestinian territories, plus the land invasion by "settlers", the bulldozing of Palestinians' homes. Do you deny that?

At this point, it definielty appears to be ethnic cleansing - not as defined by me but by the experts.
That is a War Crime.

[NickB79]

39. So DECADES of attacks on Israeli civilians is just ignored

Because it was "a while ago"?

Iron Dome has been shooting down rockets since it went active; Hamas never stopped trying to hit Israeli civilians. So it was never a while ago. Hamas just hadn't found a way to defeat Israeli tech, so they carried out Oct 7 instead.

The settler issue is in the West Bank; Israel removed their last settlements in Gaza over a decade ago. The government of the West Bank is largely separated from that of Gaza, and has for the most part refrained from entering the battle.

Israel appears to be the only nation on Earth expected to be under perpetual attack as a condition for their existing.

[Beastly Boy]

42. Calling it ethnic cleansing doesn't make it one. I's a friggin war, and Hamas started it.

[Diraven]

53. It will be ethnic cleansing by definition

If they don't allow them back. So it remains to be seen. Israel has so far warned Gazans not to return to any of the areas they have been told to flee.

[Beastly Boy]

54. And it "will be" apartheid IF... and it "will" be genocide IF...

And it will be an alien invasion IF the Israelis were from Mars. But it is not.

[Old Okie]

58. War

War on Drugs; War on Terrorism; all excuses for Forever Wars.

[EX500rider]

61. Yeah, wrong, it's a war

Did the US suffer any of those things in our last few wars?
And yet they were still wars.
See: Korean War, Vietnam War, both Gulf Wars, Afghan war etc

They aren't "ethnically cleansing" anything, they are moving the civilians to safer areas of Gaza while they fight Hamas, but they are still in Gaza aren't they?

[Lancero]

23. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

"Israel isn't warning civilians and letting them evacuate! GENOCIDE!"

"Israel wants to evacuate the civilians! GENOCIDE!"

And, should the Gazan government ever do the right thing and surrender to end the war they started, I'm sure that people will still find a way to accuse Israel of genocide. Perhaps something along the lines of Israel committing genocide by drawing the war out and not forcing a Gazan surrender sooner?

[TeamProg]

34. We don't know that, do we? It's been a bombardment for months.

[Beastly Boy]

43. We don't know what, exactly? Gratuitous accusations of genocide have been leveled against israel since

before the founding of Israel.

Three quarters of a century of accusations, and not a single charge. A reasonable person would detect a hint of defamation in this pattern, no?

[TeamProg]

44. We don't know this:

"Israel isn't warning civilians and letting them evacuate! GENOCIDE!"

"Israel wants to evacuate the civilians! GENOCIDE!"

[Beastly Boy]

48. We do know what a parody is, do we?

Definition of parody noun from the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
parody noun

/ˈpærədi/

/ˈpærədi/
(plural parodies)

1. ​[countable, uncountable] a piece of writing, music, acting, etc. that deliberately copies the style of somebody/something in order to be humorous

2. ​[countable] (disapproving) something that is such a bad or an unfair example of something that it seems silly

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/parody_1

[Beastly Boy]

35. Population removal from Gaza to Gaza?

Out of harm's way?

Genocide, I tell ya!

[FBaggins]

67. Far from it

In warfare - removing the civilian population from the area of conflict is not just acceptable - it is required (primarily the obligation of Hamas in this case, but the IDF too if it's possible).

[womanofthehills]

7. It's genocide because the men and older boys

Will not be allowed to leave according to Middle East Eye

“Israel planning ring of checkpoints to prevent men from fleeing Rafah, source says
Israel is reportedly setting up a 'complex network' of checkpoints to prevent 'military age' men from fleeing Rafah assault, says senior western official”

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-israel-planning-ring-checkpoints-prevent-men-fleeing-rafah

[bhikkhu]

10. It's exactly what we did in Fallujah

...which still sucked, but the other option was to have much higher civilian casualties.

[EX500rider]

16. Since Hamas does not fight in uniform that is not surprising

They surely don't want them all escaping Justice

[TeamProg]

22. That's the winning ticket ! Yeah, that's the ticket, yeah...

[intheflow]

56. Right?

Who cares if innocents are killed as long as unidentified men won't be escaping justice?

Did you also support rounding up all Muslims after 9/11, regardless of their ties to al-Qaeda?

[EX500rider]

60. They aren't "rounding up all Muslims"

They are moving civilians out of the way for their safety and sorting through the military age males to find the hamas members .....like any military would do when fighting un-uniformed opponents

[intheflow]

62. To what end, tho?

So they can destroy any remaining housing and infrastructure in Gaza? Then they’re going to let those folks go back home? What will they go home to if they have no homes? Bibi is pretending to care about civilians when really he’s just covering his ass as he continues his violent settlement expansion.

[Beastly Boy]

38. Let me get this straight:

Moving Gazans out of harm's way is genocide.

Not moving Gazans out of harm's way is genocide.

Separating militants from civilians is genocide.

Not separating militants from civilians is genocide.

...Did I leave anything out of what constitutes genocide?

[Igel]

72. I'm sure if Hamas was 50% women, 50% men, things would be different.

But since Hamas doesn't appear to allow women into their regular forces--I mean, disparate impact and all that shows true inclusivity, I guess--it's a reasonable sort of thing.

Sort of like Ukraine not letting draft-age men leave the country, just women and children.

[Cha]

14. You're Correct, of course.. TY

[SoFlaBro]

26. No matter what Israel does, the "blame Israel" crowd will squawk *genocide* like a goddamn parakeet.

[Cha]

49. You noticed too. It only Weakens

their case again Israel.

[SoFlaBro]

59. They fail to mention how shitstain Hamas would rather fucking film the carnage they cause and created.

[Cha]

66. Yeah those Monsters

Freaking Sadistic details

[DemocraticPatriot]

18. Talk is cheap...

[maxsolomon]

2. A ceasefire leading to a permanent ceasefire would be preferable.

Hopefully this planning is just building pressure on Hamas to agree to one.

Even if Al-Malasi is "just" 6 miles away from Rafah.

[womanofthehills]

8. Hamas will return hostages for a total ceasefire

But Israel Gov says if Hamas returns hostages, they will only get a temporary ceasefire - like 40 days and then Israel will flatten Rafah.

[former9thward]

9. You mean like the total ceasefire that existed on Oct. 6th?

And Hamas broke the next day? Of course, that ceasefire was being violated on a routine basis by Hamas when they would fire mortar rounds and occasional rockets at Israeli border towns. I guess that doesn't count. Most of the hostages have probably been murdered by now and all that's left is body retrieval.

[iemanja]

11. Netanhayu has said he will invade Rafah even if there is a cease fire

so pretending Hamas is the only culprit is not factual.

[former9thward]

13. Pretending Hamas will comply with a ceasefire is not factual.

They won't and they never have.

[iemanja]

15. Where did I say they would?

In fact, my post say Hamas was not "the ONLY culprit." You have chosen to ignore the point of what I wrote.

[former9thward]

29. You are trying bothsiderism crap.

There are not both sides. Israel is not going to fall into the trap of a ceasefire that is fake. It is not a culprit.

[iemanja]

50. There is no equivalency in terms of who has killed more people

Israel has slaughtered tens of thousands. So you are right. There is no equivalency.

[former9thward]

52. In WW II there was no equivanlency between the U.S. and Japan.

They killed 2400 Americans at Pearl Harbor. We killed millions of them. When attacked countries kill until the attacker surrenders.

[iemanja]

65. We dropped two nuclear bombs

After the Nazis had surrendered, which by any moral compass was horrific. Mass murder must be condemned.

[FBaggins]

68. ??? Why does it matter that the Nazis had surrendered?

You do know that Japan had not, right?

[EX500rider]

69. "Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!" lol

[iemanja]

71. We dropped them to flex our power to the Soviets

who were our allies. The bombs were not necessary to defeat Japan.

[EX500rider]

73. No. that was just a side effect

The intent was definitely to have Japan surrender before an invasion was necessary

[TeamProg]

31. You just got done saying that there WAS a ceasefire on Oct 6th that Hamas broke on

Oct. 7th.

How does that support anything you say?

[former9thward]

45. There was a ceasefire by Israel.

Kinda like the "ceasefire now" that some folks are demanding. One sided. Allow Hamas to attack but condemn Israel if they defend themselves.

[TeamProg]

46. 13. Pretending Hamas will comply with a ceasefire is not factual. They won't and they never have.

[SunSeeker]

24. Well, there's this guy still held, who miraculously survived Hamas blowing off his hand.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18891451

[questionseverything]

27. The way Israel has been bombing the hostages may all be dead

There wasn’t peace before the 7th , settlers were stealing land constantly

[AloeVera]

28. Over 200 Palestinians killed in 2023.

Before Oct 7.

Bt there was a ceasefire, right?

[NickB79]

40. How many rockets and mortars did Hamas lob in 2023?

Iron Dome has stayed active since it came online.

Looks like 580+ rockets were fired in 2022 alone.

So who's been violating the ceasefire again?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/580-rockets-fired-from-gaza-since-friday-iron-dome-at-97-success-rate/

[former9thward]

30. Get your areas straight.

Settlers were not stealing land in Gaza. Israel removed the last settlers in Gaza in 2005. 19 years ago. Israel left in 2005. Gaza has continued to fire mortar rounds and occasional rockets at Israeli border towns since.

[questionseverything]

55. Israel settlers have continually stole land and imprisoned

Palestinians without charges not alone trials

[bhikkhu]

12. Hamas asked for a lot more than that

Including the release of many convicted criminals. Even then it might be worthwhile, but that agreement would leave Hamas in power, with it's commitment to continue killing Jews and eradicating the state of Israel intact. It's hard to see the point of going back to the same status quo that just leads inevitably to more destruction.

[LauraInLA]

17. I believe that the last ceasefire negotiation failed partly because Hamas said they couldn't

find enough hostages to return.

[Beastly Boy]

41. Hamas had their total ceasefire on October 6, 2023.

Hamas didn't have any hostages on October 6, 2023.

They broke the total ceasefire, invaded Israel, brutally murdered over 1000 civilians in cold blood and took hostages on October 7, 2023

Now they want total ceasefire for the hostages. If they can resurrect the 1000 civilians they murdered and throw them in as part of the deal, they may have a fair point.

[erodriguez]

19. Netenyahu will not relent as long as it damages Biden.

He has all to gain by hurting Biden and helping Trump gain control.

He is definitely not working for the good of Israel.

If he decides to attack Rafah, he should do it without US help and arms.

[TeamProg]

20. Yep, 'just round them up'. Where have I heard that before?

[Elessar Zappa]

57. Don't even compare this to the to what happened in World War 2.

It’s extremely offensive to victims and survivors of the Nazi regime. And would you prefer Israel bombard them instead of move them?

[intheflow]

63. The preferable action would be for Netanyahu

to listen to his own citizens protesting in the streets and stop his campaign against Palestinians and their homeland.

[Lonestarblue]

25. The attack on Rafah will allow the IDF to destroy the rest of Gaza's infrastructure.

I doubt there are many Hamas fighters left in Gaza. They and their leaders left through the tunnels, but Netanyahu wants to make all of Gaza unlivable. Cindy McCain reported that northern Gaza is in famine already because the IDF bulldozed olive trees and other food crops. I suppose Hamas fighters were hiding behind those skinny olive trees.

Israel plans to cram the Palestinians in Rafah into a tiny corner of Gaza where they will have no food and no access to medical care. They have already destroyed the last functioning hospital in Rafah (another of many war crimes), but some doctors are still there. Once Israel has razed Rafah, where will Netanyahu force Palestinians to go next? He is trying to make Gaza unlivable to try to force countries like Egypt to take them in. And once there, Israel will never allow them back into to Gaza. No Palestinians, no need for a state.

[TomDaisy]

47. the plan to move the civilians to 6 feet under

[EX500rider]

74. Then it's a very slow moving plan isn't it

2 million Gazans, 30,000 dead according to Hamas in over half a year.. so what about 33 years for your "plan"?

[RockRaven]

51. Relocating civilians to camps "for their safety" always turns out well...

[Richard D]

64. The very best way to prevent casulaties in a war . . .

. . . is to not start one. Hamas did and promises to do it again and again until all Jews are dead.

It is all on them. Every single death.

[Celerity]

70. Former Israeli PM Ehud Olmert - Israelis Must Flood the Streets to Keep the IDF Out of Rafah

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218920798