Trump supporters try to doxx jurors and post violent threats after his conviction

[pnwmom]

Source: NBC News

WASHINGTON — The 34 felony guilty verdicts returned Thursday against former President Donald Trump spurred a wave of violent rhetoric aimed at the prosecutors who secured his conviction, the judge who oversaw the case and the ordinary jurors who unanimously agreed there was no reasonable doubt that the presumptive Republican presidential nominee falsified business records related to hush money payments to a porn star to benefit his 2016 campaign.

Advance Democracy, a non-profit that conducts public interest research, said there has been a high volume of social media posts containing violent rhetoric targeting New York Judge Juan Merchan and Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, including a post with Bragg’s purported home address. The group also found posts of the purported addresses of jurors on a fringe internet message board known for pro-Trump content and harassing and violent posts, although it is unclear if any actual jurors had been correctly identified.

The posts, which have been reviewed by NBC News, appear on many of the same websites used by Trump supporters to organize for violence ahead of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol. These forums were hotbeds of threats inspired by Trump’s lies about the 2020 election, which he lost, and that the voting system was “rigged” against him. They now feature new threats echoing Trump’s rhetoric and false claims about the hush money trial, including that the judicial system is now “rigged” against him.

“Dox the Jurors. Dox them now,” one user wrote after Trump’s conviction on a website formerly known as “The Donald,” which was popular among participants in the Capitol attack. (That post appears to have been quickly removed by moderators.)

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-supporters-try-doxx-jurors-post-violent-threats-conviction-rcna154882

[ificandream]

1. Damn idiot magas

[Journeyman]

2. I take it as confirmation they know he's guilty. Why dox jurors if not in a fruitless effort . . .

to turn back the clock?

[Jim__]

3. Trump supporters are scum. But, of course, we already know that.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Such rage and lunacy in a controlled environment is rare

I'm thinking this has some parallels to the French Revolution, but carried out in the modern, digital age, and in a larger country with more dispersed centers of power. That being said, are we entering the Reign of Terror? It won't be off with their heads, but more like targeted officials, and who knows how far MAGA will go. Trump is telling us HE is the patriot for the Constitution here, but he's convicted and is trying to destroy the system of law. Is the public aware, do they have the skills to sort it out? No. So what do we do but sit and wait. Be careful out there DUers!

[Irish_Dem]

5. I think it is more akin to Hitler's takeover of the German gov't and people.

Or Stalin's repressive regime.

The extremely dangerous goon squads who controlled the population with fear and brutality.

[GB_RN]

8. I've Been Reading William Shirer's Book...

Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, and let me just say, I see some disturbing parallels.

The rich, the powerful corporate elite, and top military leaders all got behind Hitler as he rose to take the Chancellorship in Germany of what was then known as the Weimar Republic. All of them thought they could control him. By the time these guys realized how big a monster they’d unleashed, it was too late to do anything about it; they were neck deep in with him. And we all know how that turned out.

Almost as soon as Hitler gained power, revenge was one of his first moves. He went after those who’d stopped him/locked him up for the Beer Hall Putsch. He had potential rivals (like SA leader, Ernst Röhm killed in the Night of the Long Knives). No one escaped his wrath. No one.

The rich and corporate bosses lined up behind Cantaloupe Caligula back in ‘16, and got a lot of what they wanted. Now they want more, but a tRump, unhindered by needing to face another election, would be the beast they can’t control. Revenge, treason and destruction of the government (as we know it) and the social safety net, would be all but guaranteed. After all, who’s going to stop him when his administration is filled with corrupt, incompetent yes-men? Court orders won’t mean shit to Agent Orange and his people.

[Irish_Dem]

10. Yes exactly, the parallels are stunning and disturbing.

Trump's corporate backers are in for a rude awakening.
Once Trump comes to power again, he will demand a cut of their profits.
Or suffer the consequences.

US generals have balked at supporting a fascist Trump.
But I am sure Trump can take care of that problem.

[slightlv]

16. I worry he'll nuke some country...

maybe even a state of our own! We know he hates NY and CA. He wouldn't care if the fallout drifted over red states. Human life means nothing to him.

[Warpy]

21. I read the books when they were first published

and my mother said the books were bigger than I was. I have never forgotten the progress of a loudmouthed minority to seizing full power over a modern state in crisis.

We're definitely not in crisis, not like Germany was in the 20s and 30s. Our crises are all being manufactured by Russian troll farms and onshore punks who are trying to one-up each other, getting Middle America to believe stupider and stupider things.

That our crises aren't real is in our favor. Germany was a mess, the majority being left with little to lose. That's a huge difference right there and I hope it's one that prevents the lunatic wing of the GOP from taking over. Most Americans have a lot to lose.

I don't think TFG is going to be the problem. I see someone like Stephen Miller, assisted by men like Gaetz and Gosar, as being the problem in about 15-20 years. TFG is just too damned old and too damned dumb to pull it off. Others in that party are neither old nor dumb, just young and spectacularly wrong.

One thing Shirer and Hannah Arendt and other authors have taught us is that if it could happen to a country like Germany, industrialized and educated, that it can heppen here, too.

We need to remember that, always.

[GB_RN]

28. I Agree With You.

I wasn’t trying to say that history was repeating itself and we’d see the beginning of the Fourth Reich. I just was pointing out there are obvious parallels between the rise of both. And the differences between Herr Führer and the Hair Furor would be kinda slim if he gets back into office. Plus, Obersturmführer Stephen Miller, Jason Miller, Batshit Bannon, Seb Gorka, and all the other Nazis would be right there, back in the White House with Agent Orange, assisting him with his revenge and destruction.

It’s not a pleasant thought, but unfortunately, dangerously close to becoming reality.

[OAITW r.2.0]

26. One of the great books I read in Middle School.

We read important stuff back then.

[BlueKota]

37. I many see many of the same personality traits in Trump

that match psychiatric issues that were also present in Joseph Stalin according to books I read analyzing his psychological make up.

His bone deep narcissistic personality disorder, and constant paranoia made him very easy to manipulate. Hitler took full advantage of that. I think Vladimir Putin is taking the Hitler role in response to Trump's Stalin.

[NanaCat]

46. The French Revolution isn't a good comparison

France did not have a democracy in place, for one thing. There really aren't parallels to the opponents involved, either. France had almost no middle class. It was mostly the monarch, clergy and aristocracy on one side...and everyone else on the other. The Russian Revolution of 1917 is actually a closer relative to the French Revolution than what's happening in the US.

We needs must compare our discord to more modern democracies. Weimer Germany is sort of a fit...but not really, because our economic situation isn't remotely as dire. We're also not recovering from a devastating war that demoralized and bankrupted an entire country. Our democratic institutions are also older and quite a bit more stable; Germany hadn't been at the democracy game for very long in the 20s and 30s, so they weren't as accustomed to digging in against threats to it.

We have some elements of the Spanish Civil War, and some that are quite close to the turmoil of Italy in the postwar era, but those aren't that great of a match, either.

The alarming comparisons are to the Irish troubles, or to Iran and the Taliban in Afghanistan, all with their fatal marriage of religious fanaticism to a heavily armed citizenry. In some regards, that similarity is beyond frightening in its aptness. But again, this isn't the best match, because these revolution were more about religious than political differences.

I keep coming back to how this is has more similarities to something in Latin America, with former colonies gaining independence, then falling prey to political (not religious) rot and/or fanaticism, especially from the right wing. The increasing concentration of wealth to a rare few, the abundance of gun ownership, long lingering racial and ethnic conflicts, close alignment of conservative christians with right wing extremists, and escalating deterioration of human rights and institutions (government or otherwise)--All of that is definitely a scary equivalent to what's going on here.

Chile before Pinochet, especially with all the outside interference from hostile powers, looks like a good candidate for comparison.

[bucolic_frolic]

47. I totally disagree with your analysis. Have you read books on the French Revolution?

The French Revolution. J.M. Thompson
The Anatomy of Revolution. Crane Brinton.

Because I've read both of them. Brinton twice.

Trumpism and the Federalists are a rolling revolution that has taken years to execute.

[PSPS]

6. Don't worry. Garland is on it! LOL

[BumRushDaShow]

7. This is a STATE case with STATE jurors

NOT federal. The Manhattan D.A.'s office along with the Attorney General of the state of NY (Tish James) would be the proper jurisdiction to investigate.

[JoseBalow]

13. Using electronic communications to conspire to commit a crime

may be Federal jurisdiction, especially if it crosses state lines. I'm sure some other federal charges might also be in play here, it doesn't take much imagination to find a Federal nexus. I wouldn't discount an FBI investigation, possibly in coordination with the NY DA's office.

[BumRushDaShow]

34. "possibly in coordination with the NY DA's office"

And the above part of the quote is the "normal process".

The local/state authorities investigate and gather evidence FIRST and THEN will usually engage with/refer the case to the feds if/when necessary, and they will then partner to resolve.

There are not enough resources for DOJ to police the criminal activities of the entire country at once, where the whole idea of a "Constitutional Republic" and "Federalism" sets up entities with their own SEPARATE, but similar hierarchies (Federal/State/County/Municipal).

[Bayard]

31. Absolutely!

But its his MAGAts that need to be whacked over the head with that fact.

[whopis01]

33. Make threats online is a Federal offense, not state

Even in the case where the person making the threat and the target are in the same state. The threat, or call to incite harassment or violence crosses state lines when it is posted online.

That is not to say the Manhattan DA’s office wouldn’t be involved. But they don’t have the jurisdiction to take the lead on this.

[BumRushDaShow]

35. See this above

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=3249763

That is not to say the Manhattan DA’s office wouldn’t be involved.

THEY (local) are the originators for any criminal investigation that happens in their locale before they determine whether whatever happened involved some type of "interstate commerce", which triggers their need to have the feds get involved (normally in partnership).

What it seems DU wants by demanding that DOJ get involved in everything under the sun, is what would probably require millions of "Big Brother" DOJ employees monitoring the criminal activities everywhere in the country at once and swooping in to "take care of the problem", essentially negating/removing any authority of state/county/municipal investigative and law enforcement. That is "Unitary Executive" stuff.

[whopis01]

39. I said nothing about the DOJ getting involved in everything under the sun.

An investigation into online threats against the jurors, if it happens, is going to involve the FBI almost immediately. There is no other way that happens. They are going to be the primary force behind the investigation, if it were to happen.

[BumRushDaShow]

40. "There is no other way that happens"

If a juror (or other person) is "threatened", normally (unless they work for the government and are even aware of such an option, and even then, that's not always the case), the first thing they do is CALL THEIR LOCAL POLICE.

Once their LOCAL LEO assesses the situation, then THEY (the municipal/county/state authorities) will start bringing in other investigative entities.

As an example, right here in Philly, a committee in our City Council recently pushed forward an ordinance that broadened the scope of what is considered a "hate crime" to not just include harassment/attacks on "individuals" but also on businesses - Philadelphia City Council committee advances bill that would expand parameters of hate crime law to include businesses

These types of "threats" (including doxxing, calls, vandalism, etc) are no different from what those jurors or any others might be subjected to, which may actually be covered under local/state laws.

IOW, the average person is NOT picking up the phone and calling the FBI... for ANYTHING. Some "informed citizens" might be aware of their "tip lines", but that is something that one would often not even be aware of as the "average person" is NOT obsessing over all the levels of law enforcement. They go LOCAL FIRST.

This is from my experience as a retired BUREAUCRAT for the federal government who grew up in a household of 2 parental bureaucrats, one federal (dad) and one state/city (mom).

[whopis01]

41. Again, you mischaracterize what I said.

I never said the average person (or any victim of a crime) is going to pick up the phone and call the FBI.
I never said the average person is obsessing over all the levels of law enforcement.

What I said was that investigation is going to involve the FBI almost immediately.

In no way whatsoever was I saying or implying that the person being threatened is going to call the FBI. I was referring to the investigation. The person reporting the crime, the victim, is not conducting the investigation.

Yes, it is obvious that a victim is going to reach out to the local authorities. The local law enforcement is going to look at where the threats are being posted. They may search around and see what else they can find from that user name at that location or elsewhere. But as soon as they need information which is not publicly available (which happens very quickly), they are going to go to other agencies.

Back in the day of dial up bulletin boards, there was a decent likelihood that one local agency would work directly with the agency that has jurisdiction where the computer was located. But that is rare anymore. The way things are distributed in the cloud crosses way too many jurisdictional boundaries to make that feasible.

This is from my experience working directly with law enforcement helping collect and analyze digital evidence for 20+ years.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. "What I said was that investigation is going to involve the FBI almost immediately. "

We may be saying the same thing but there is a prevailing assumption on DU that the evil "DOJ" is sitting back "doing nothing", should be trawling looking for and responding to "crime" all over the U.S. (and world), and should presumably be "on it" as soon as some crime happens anywhere. They DO do targeted "surveillance" for threats, but they are certainly not hunting for "more work" than their designated FTE amount of workload has planned. They will respond when a "partner" investigative entity contacts them (including any other federal agencies giving them referrals), and that is often how they get their assignments.

When it comes to "internet", there are multiple entities that monitor that including CISA (Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency), which is NOT under DOJ or associated with the FBI but is under DHS. However they partner with related agencies and offices to provide resources and expertise as part of a full suite of investigative assistance.

Many federal agencies hold some kind of monthly "multi-state" (or multi-agency, etc.) conference call to catch everyone up on what is going on in their regulated industries. There are also MOUs between federal/state/local entities to facilitate rapid communication and coordination.

But I think my point is - if something happens in some state, the STATE (whether it includes municipal, county, or state-level authorities) will quickly assess and decide whether to refer to the feds. In some cases, the feds are investigating something and stumble on some crime or issue in a state that the state may not have been aware of, and they will then contact the state to let them know so they coordinate activities.

[whopis01]

43. I worked with CISA before it was CISA...

CISA, fyi, is more concerned with helping protect and investigate threats to critical infrastructure and services rather people who use the Internet to make posts against individuals. It grew out of the NIPC (National Infrastructure Protection Center) that was formed in 1998 and overseen at the time by the FBI. After the DHS was formed, it was transferred over there. It got messy at that point while they were organizing and reorganizing - but eventually those services were formed into CISA some years later.

I worked with NIPC starting back in 1999 - back when DDOS attacks like Trinoo and Stacheldraht were the concern. When the SCADA attacks like Stuxnet came around a few years later (around 2005), things really started to grow. That really lit a fire under the agencies to get a better grip on threats to infrastructure and the Nation Protection Programs Directorate (NPPD) was formed. That was turned into CISA in 2018. Like I said, I've been involved in this for 20+ years and am quite familiar with CISA and its mission.


Regarding the juror threats, I would think that the Georgia case is a good example for how this would likely go

Trump and others were indicted on August 14, 2023.
Once the indictment was issued, the names of the jurors were release (as is required per Georgia law). This was immediately posted on right wing sites and the jurors began receiving threats.
On August 17, the FBI announced that it had joined the investigation into the threats against the jurors and Georgia officials.

I am not sure if charges have been brought against anyone making threats against the jurors, but at least one person has been indicted on Federal charges of transmitting interstate threats as a result of that investigation. That was for comments that he posted on YouTube.

Like you said, the "the state will quickly assess and decide whether to refer to the feds". The "quickly assess and decide" is exactly what I was saying by "it is going to involve the FBI almost immediately".

[BumRushDaShow]

44. Oh I remember

the clusterfuck that was the creation of DHS. The building I worked in had 12 different departments/agencies in it and that included a couple that my agency directly worked with (parts of APHIS & what was originally CBP), both of which ended up transferred over... and some of my buddies there were just facepalming all over the place.

Although the NY case was the first in and the first out, I think your notation of the GA case (because they had multiple layers of grand juries that were empaneled based on their law) is a perfect example. I think the NY, D.C., and believe it or not, the FL grand jury processes (that latter one which was actually a shock when it was first revealed that the charges were to be brought in FL for the classified docs), kept it mostly tight, so it wasn't as much of an issue, at least at the grand jury stage.

What ends up happening at any of the actual trial jury selections, will be telling to say the least however.

[whopis01]

45. The fact that we are having this conversation is kind of surreal

Debating / pontificating about who should respond when the former President unleashes his minions to harm and intimidate citizens because they were called to be on a jury deliberating his crimes. Being worried about cyber attacks and unintentional chaos and confusion in government agencies seem nice compared what is going on today.

I can't agree more with your statement.

[tonekat]

9. Behaving like sick children.

Yep, just like their deity.

[AverageOldGuy]

12. Interaction with a MAGAt today

I live in a rural Virginia county that went over 70% for Trump in 2016 and 2020. All but a couple of Trump flags have disappeared but I expect they will start to re-appear.

My old truck -- which I drive everywhere -- has a few decals: US Army Retired, Ranger, Airborne, Vietnam Vet, Lock Him Up, Proud Democrat, Biden-Harris 2024. I'm 79, be 80 in December.

So today I was at the hardware store, came out to find a guy in his late 20's standing by my truck. I figured I knew what was coming. He started out with some bullshit about well, you know the judges and juries are controlled by Biden and he won't stop until he puts Trump in jail. I ignored him, opened the passenger side door and put my purchases in the truck.

He followed me around to the driver's side, ragging on me all the way -- look at me when I'm talking to you, old man -- what's the matter, afraid to talk to me -- you know there's going to be a lot of trouble --

I ignored him as best I could, opened the driver's side door and stepped back so he could see the pistol on the front seat. He looked a bit startled, I told him -- bring it on, shitforbrains. Got in the truck and drove off.

Goddam but I am so tired of these sonsofbitches who never heard a shot fired in their direction. I spent a year in the bush in a place called Vietnam (Google it, it's in most of the history books) and I'll be goddam if some halfwit backwoods goober is going to fuck with me. I didn't bother to show him the shotgun behind the seat.

No, I'm not going to shoot anyone. Yet.

[Traurigkeit]

14. Stand Proud. You served your country with your life.

[slightlv]

17. Good for you!

I don't own a gun anymore. My depressions, when I find myself in one, are tending to be serious. I eventually get myself out of it, but when they pair with a lupus flare, I've been very grateful for NOT having a gun around.

I most definitely would have opened my mouth and inserted my foot inside his! I'm short; I'm small. But I'm a woman who's watching rights being stripped away from me, my sisters, and my daughter. My nickname used to be Taz (Tasmanian devil) for the way I'd be when someone worked me up. Well, I still got those buttons and they're a hell of a lot easier to push these days. I'd have no problem taking a flying leap onto the guy's back, wrapping my legs around his belly (hoping they're not to short and he's not overly the couch potato!) But I am a ball of fire when you wind me up. Problem is, it takes nothing these days to wind me up!

But I'm also like you in that I am so tired of their crap. And they call US snowflakes? My gods, do they realize how stupid that sounds when you talk about it in context to the way they whine and cry and bitch and moan all the frigging time about *everything*? I think all the excitement has gotten to me tonight. Been worshipping the porcelain Buddha all evening. This old soul can only take so much, it seems... and it's reaching it's "up to here" point.

I still feel solid in the belief we're going to win overwhelmingly in Nov. For that, I work and continue to fight to 'keep on truckin' ... I'm 68 and feeling every one of my years lately. But I'm not gonna lay down and let them walk over me... and I'll fight with anyone else like us to support and protect them. We may be going into a time where that's gonna be important. Damn magats.

[pnwmom]

18. "look at me when I'm talking to you"??? Wow. I'm glad you had a good response to that. nt

[Bayard]

32. Good for you!

That's pretty ballsy for somebody to be laying in wait for you. Could be dangerous.

Bullies back down quickly when their intended victim gets in their face though. I'm not a large woman, but I've used that tactic plenty of times.

[sakabatou]

15. They do know jury tampering is illegal, they just don't care

[SomedayKindaLove]

19. Call off the goons, Donny

Or spend the rest of your life in jail.

[FakeNoose]

20. I hope the feds can trace those threats quickly

[Warpy]

23. I hope they can track these assholes down

because they're going to get someone killed and that someone is probably not going to be a juror. These are not the sharpest tacks in the carpet and we all know they're going to get it wrong more often than right, not that it makes any difference.

[Warpy]

25. He wants to be. He's too stupid.

Junior is even stupider, as they're about to find out to their utter horror.

I think reality will start to set in fairly soon, that they bet on the wrong horse this time, mostly because he's too old.

[orangecrush]

27. Clean up in aisle 34

Let them crawl out from under their dungheaps and see what happens.

[SunSeeker]

30. Whosever addresses those are, their lives are in danger.

I hope police alert those residents and provide security.

[The Grand Illuminist]

36. As I stated since the verdict came out.

I fear for the jurors and the governor should exercise her executive powers to order law enforcement to provide security for those brave 12 for a prolonged amount of time.

[myohmy2]

38. law enforcement...

...needs to do something quickly...

"The posts, which have been reviewed by NBC News, appear on many of the same websites used by Trump supporters to organize for violence ahead of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol."

...conspiracy and insurrection must be confronted...