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Ramsey Barner

(669 posts)
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 05:03 AM Aug 2024

Women claim Texas hospitals denied them abortions for ectopic pregnancies

Last edited Tue Aug 13, 2024, 09:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: Washington Post

Two women have filed complaints against two Texas hospitals for allegedly denying them treatment for ectopic pregnancies, which they say put their lives at risk and breached federal law. In a complaint to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Kyleigh Thurman said that in February 2023, Ascension Seton Williamson Hospital in Round Rock, Tex., discharged her without treating her ectopic pregnancy or transferring her to another hospital. It denied her treatment again when she returned days later with vaginal bleeding, she said.

The delay caused her fallopian tube to rupture, she said. According to the complaint, the hospital treated her only after her OB/GYN “pleaded” with staff to provide the necessary care. Texas law, which bans abortion in most cases, makes an exception for ectopic pregnancies, which cannot result in a live birth.

“None of this should have happened to me, and I want to make sure this doesn’t happen to anyone else,” Thurman added.

Four OB/GYNs who reviewed Norris-De La Cruz’s medical records for The Washington Post, with her permission, said that she should have been offered emergency surgery and that they suspected Texas’s abortion ban played a role in how she was advised, The Post reported in February. The women’s attorneys are seeking an investigation by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services or other relevant authorities into the incidents, as well as the imposition of “all appropriate penalties” for any unlawful conduct.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/08/13/texas-ectopic-pregnancy-abortion/

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Women claim Texas hospitals denied them abortions for ectopic pregnancies (Original Post) Ramsey Barner Aug 2024 OP
A fertilized egg growing in a fallopian tube can't be a viable pregnancy. no_hypocrisy Aug 2024 #1
because doctors (understandably) don't want to face criminal prosecution AlexSFCA Aug 2024 #3
What a Rebl2 Aug 2024 #5
Texas ck4829 Aug 2024 #15
My mother was an anesthesiologist Zoomie1986 Aug 2024 #16
Alex is correct. Unfortunately, doctors have the "right to refuse" for any reason. They have no legal obligation to LeftInTX Aug 2024 #7
And the "Good Samaritan Law" has no effect on a medical emergency? no_hypocrisy Aug 2024 #8
The Good Samaritan Law is civil liability protection. It doesn't protect against criminal. Does not apply to attending. LeftInTX Aug 2024 #9
What about my premise in my post about the criminal defense of Necessity? no_hypocrisy Aug 2024 #10
They don't see it that way. Lots of people die in the US due to denial of services. LeftInTX Aug 2024 #11
But Necessity will immunize the treating doctor(s) from criminal prosecution. no_hypocrisy Aug 2024 #12
Tell that to the doctors in Texas... LeftInTX Aug 2024 #13
The "Necessity" is about "Necessity of deadly force" for self-defense! LeftInTX Aug 2024 #18
Protection from negligence is for civilians who have no training Zoomie1986 Aug 2024 #17
I don't know what they're afraid of... They'll send Texas cops after you. And we all know what they act like. ck4829 Aug 2024 #2
Religion and conservative political power have been shown to be hazardous to women's health. Timeflyer Aug 2024 #4
Yeah, I knew Seton was a Catholic Hospital. LeftInTX Aug 2024 #14
An ectopic pregnancy is not a viable "pregnancy," it's a lethal condition if left untreated. SunSeeker Aug 2024 #6
Might as well say, "TX forces women to go out of state for medical needs" sakabatou Aug 2024 #19

no_hypocrisy

(54,882 posts)
1. A fertilized egg growing in a fallopian tube can't be a viable pregnancy.
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 05:21 AM
Aug 2024

I don't understand how doctors can refuse to treat an ectopic "pregnancy" as it's inevitable that the zygote and possibly, the mother (the host) will die.

AlexSFCA

(6,319 posts)
3. because doctors (understandably) don't want to face criminal prosecution
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 08:02 AM
Aug 2024

It is safer for them to refuse all abortions in all cases. This is what happens when politicians use the power of government to interfere in medical care. I winder if there will be a shortage of OBGYN doctors in states like TX.

Rebl2

(17,706 posts)
5. What a
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 11:28 AM
Aug 2024

horrible place for young women to live knowing if something goes wrong with a pregnancy, they more than likely will not get help from medical professionals, if you can call them that.

ck4829

(37,682 posts)
15. Texas
Fri Aug 16, 2024, 10:14 AM
Aug 2024

Where if you get into a medical emergency, the opinions of cops who stood around and did nothing during a school shooting will take priority over your life.

 

Zoomie1986

(1,213 posts)
16. My mother was an anesthesiologist
Fri Aug 16, 2024, 02:07 PM
Aug 2024

I know it's not an OB/GYN, but much of her practice involved the surgical end of the field. She had close working relationships with many of them, and everything she's hearing from the ones still in practice is that things could get very grim in Texas for obstetrics. The young ones, the future of the field, have their eye on the escape hatch to states that won't put them in jail for doing their jobs. The oldest ones are considering retirement earlier than planned. We'll know within 5 years how that shook out.

She says it's too early to tell how it will affect medical schools and residency programs...but, when they're honest, nobody expects improvements in recruiting the best and brightest. If top candidates abandon training in Texas, that doesn't bode well for the quality of care that women will get in the future.

As with anything, though, even medicine is local. Most future doctors who have grown up in a state will prefer to get their training in that state, and then practice in it, despite the obstacles. If enough of the state's best and brightest choose to stay, then maybe Texas can tread water with women's healthcare.

But that's a mighty big if.

LeftInTX

(34,216 posts)
7. Alex is correct. Unfortunately, doctors have the "right to refuse" for any reason. They have no legal obligation to
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 12:29 PM
Aug 2024

to treat anyone.

The "right to refuse" is legally stronger than their obligation to treat. It's like "no shirt, no shoes, no service", except they don't advertise it.

no_hypocrisy

(54,882 posts)
8. And the "Good Samaritan Law" has no effect on a medical emergency?
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 12:48 PM
Aug 2024

The Texas Good Samaritan Act
While some states’ laws only dictate when an individual may act as a Good Samaritan, other states also have laws protecting Good Samaritans from negligence claims if they act in good faith. The Texas Good Samaritan Act covers both. The law states:

“A person who in good faith administers emergency care at the scene of an emergency or in a hospital is not liable in civil damages for an act performed during the emergency unless the act is willfully or wantonly negligent.”

It’s vital for people who act as Good Samaritans to understand that this law only protects them if they act in good faith, or solely out of concern for another human being’s safety and not for reward or any other motivation. The Texas Good Samaritan Act clearly states the law does not protect individuals who seek payment for the emergency aid they render to others, people present during an emergency situation who were there for business purposes or to sell a service, or “an admitting physician or treating physician associated by the admitting physician of a patient bringing a health-care liability claim.”

Good Samaritan Examples
One of the most common situations that could lead to a Good Samaritan dispute is an automobile crash. A bystander who witnesses the accident may instinctively rush to help and accidentally injure a driver while extracting him or her from a vehicle. Without a Good Samaritan law in place, the driver could sue the person who helped for negligence, despite the fact that the person was only trying to help. Another example could be an injured driver in a single car accident who falsely blames a Good Samaritan for causing an injury. The driver may realize that he or she is at fault for the crash and attempt to sue the Good Samaritan for compensation since no one else is to blame.

In another example, a tow truck driver who transports a damaged vehicle from an accident site to a repair center could face liability if the tow company causes further damage to the vehicle. Despite the fact the tow company is attempting to help the car’s owner, they are present at the scene of the accident for business purposes, and the Texas Good Samaritan Act would not protect them from a lawsuit.

If you have recently been in a similar situation and have questions about the legal protections in place for Good Samaritans in Texas, reach out to a trusted attorney for more information. In the event you are falsely accused of negligence while trying to help someone in an emergency, your attorney can help you gather the evidence necessary to prove you acted in good faith out of consideration of others.

https://www.rosslawgroup.com/texas-good-samaritan-law/#:~:text=The%20Texas%20Good%20Samaritan%20Act,-While%20some%20states&text=%E2%80%9CA%20person%20who%20in%20good,is%20willfully%20or%20wantonly%20negligent.%E2%80%9D

or

Let's say it's criminal liability. There is a defense called "Necessity" which allows you to legally break the law if your conduct was predicated on saving lives.

Sec. 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;

(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and

(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.


Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm#:~:text=(a)%20A%20person%20is%20justified,serious%20bodily%20injury%20to%20himself.

LeftInTX

(34,216 posts)
9. The Good Samaritan Law is civil liability protection. It doesn't protect against criminal. Does not apply to attending.
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 01:07 PM
Aug 2024

It can't force you to treat. It also does not apply to admitting or treating physicians.
Doctors would rather deny care than accept risks.

The Texas Good Samaritan Act clearly states the law does not protect individuals who seek payment for the emergency aid they render to others, people present during an emergency situation who were there for business purposes or to sell a service, or “an admitting physician or treating physician associated by the admitting physician of a patient bringing a health-care liability claim.”


Sounds like it protects doctors only if they are "bystanders".

LeftInTX

(34,216 posts)
18. The "Necessity" is about "Necessity of deadly force" for self-defense!
Fri Aug 16, 2024, 06:54 PM
Aug 2024

It's not from the Texas Medical Practice Act, it's from the Texas Penal Code. It would only be justified if the fetus threatened to kill the doctor!!! Highly, highly unlikely.


Maybe if a pregnant woman held a gun to the doctor's head and demanded that he perform an abortion, it might be considered self-defense or coercion, but I won't even go there.

These women were in distress. The doctor's (actor's) life was not threatened. A lawyer would need to twist himself in pretzels to use a "self-defense" claim in court.

Were the women's lives threatened by the fetus? Yes, but the doctor's life wasn't threatened.


Would a woman have claim to self defense? Yes, she would.
However the doctor is the one who would be legally responsible, not the women.

 

Zoomie1986

(1,213 posts)
17. Protection from negligence is for civilians who have no training
Fri Aug 16, 2024, 02:10 PM
Aug 2024

And through their ignorance miss a simple symptom or treatment that would help someone who dies while they're trying to help.

That doesn't apply to doctors, because they do have training in what to look for.

ck4829

(37,682 posts)
2. I don't know what they're afraid of... They'll send Texas cops after you. And we all know what they act like.
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 05:39 AM
Aug 2024

Timeflyer

(3,751 posts)
4. Religion and conservative political power have been shown to be hazardous to women's health.
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 11:22 AM
Aug 2024

Health care in Gilead--

"Who We Are--
Ascension is one of the nation’s leading non-profit and Catholic health systems, with a Mission of delivering compassionate, personalized care to all with special attention to persons living in poverty and those most vulnerable. In FY2023, Ascension provided $2.2 billion in care of persons living in poverty and other community benefit programs. Ascension includes approximately 134,000 associates, 35,000 affiliated providers and 140 hospitals, serving communities in 18 states and the District of Columbia.associates, ...

Ascension Seton Williamson Hospital in Round Rock, Texas, is a full-service hospital with 24/7 emergency care and level II trauma center. We deliver care for life-threatening injuries and illnesses. Our care teams listen to quickly understand your health needs and deliver care that's right for you. Ascension Seton Williamson Hospital is a destination for specialty care - including heart and vascular health, orthopedics, women's health and maternity services. We provide complex neurosurgical and plastic surgical care in addition to a full-service digestive care program including a Blue Distinction in bariatric surgical care.

Our OB-GYN maternity care teams at our Maternity Unit, which includes a level II neonatal unit, deliver a personalized birthing experience and advanced neonatal care for sick babies. Dell Children’s Emergency care is available onsite as well. We offer a wide range of minimally invasive procedures, imaging, lab tests and rehabilitation services, all on one campus.,000 affiliated providers and 140 hospitals, serving communities in 18 states and the District of Columbia.

LeftInTX

(34,216 posts)
14. Yeah, I knew Seton was a Catholic Hospital.
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 01:24 PM
Aug 2024

I think in the past, they would often send cases like this to other hospitals. I worked at a Catholic hospital for awhile. However, they always had back up hospitals a few minutes away and were pretty good about coordinating. (I didn't get involved with emergencies like this, so not too knowledgeable about the details.) The receiving hospitals were always good about treatment.

SunSeeker

(58,257 posts)
6. An ectopic pregnancy is not a viable "pregnancy," it's a lethal condition if left untreated.
Tue Aug 13, 2024, 12:26 PM
Aug 2024

What the fuck, Texas?!

sakabatou

(46,125 posts)
19. Might as well say, "TX forces women to go out of state for medical needs"
Fri Aug 16, 2024, 10:05 PM
Aug 2024

FFS, ectopic pregnancies are not viable!

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