Robert F. Kennedy Jr: Fox News Has Divided Country In A Way Not Seen Since Civil War

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

Source: Huffington Post

Robert F. Kennedy Jr told HuffPost Live host Josh Zepps in an interview Friday that he believes conservative media outlets such as Fox News are damaging the country.

Asked how he thought things have changed in the political landscape, Kennedy pointed to "big money" and "the right wing control of the American media, starting with Fox News" as hurtful to collaboration between differing political interests.

"Twenty-two percent of Americans say their primary news source is Fox News," Kennedy told HuffPost Live. "It's divided our country in a way that we haven't been divided probably since the Civil War, and its empowered large corporations to get certain kinds of politicians and ideologues who are in the United State Congress elected -- the Tea Party ideologues who control the Republican Party."

Kennedy, who is the nephew of John F. Kennedy and Ted Kennedy and attorney specializing in environmental law, also spoke about the hydraulic fracturing -- or fracking -- and the health risks and associated costs the practice represents for the country.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/robert-f-kennedy-jr-fox-news_n_2261043.html

[Scuba]

1. He must be a highly perceptive man with great deductive reasoning skills.

Or not.

[truebluegreen]

17. ???

What was that about?

[Scuba]

26. Lame attempt at sarcasm. Anybody and everybody can see what he's describing.

[plethoro]

28. It wasn't a lame attempt. I got it right away. nft

ddddddd

[truebluegreen]

30. My bad.

RFK Jr. is one of my heroes.

[liberalmike27]

42. Fairness Doctrine

FOX was created because of an earlier decision in 1987, to repeal the Fairness Doctrine. You once had to watch an hour of one guy, with an hour of another, one conservative, the other liberal. Better, most of the time they were both on at the same time, exchanging ideas.

This kept people from being able to watch just one, or the other. Everyone at least got whatever was considered liberal and conservative, no matter which station they watched.

Now, with the repeal of the need for the rich-man's media to bother with fairness, it allowed Rush, and FOX to spring up, Demons from the Earth in the late 1980s, early 1990s. In fact, with FOX leading the right-wing push, the rest of the networks pretty much followed, throughout the 1990s, into the 2000s, when finally ONE guy came on MSNBC, Keith Olbermann. They followed that model, and mopped up people like me, people who had completely abandoned the ridiculous right.

They paraded on one person after another to call the media "liberal." Then they proceeded to put on the most vacuous, bilious stuff, the most right-wing ideas, with no one there to counter their myth that they were liberal, or the positions presented by this new right-wing corporate media.

If we ever want to fix our media, it's going to involve some sort of attempt at righting this divide. Commercial radio still has roughly 97 percent right-wing talk, and liberals are still regularly being removed, or having sports substituted, even when they are getting good ratings, and on markets where sports stations already abound.

[Still Blue in PDX]

57. Thanks for reminding me . . .

I need to go back to KBOO to get my fix of progressive radio since KPOJ was murdered here in Portland. Now I feel bad that I abandoned them when Air America first came to town.

[classof56]

73. I have been listening to 760AM-Denver and 92.1 Madison WI since KPOJ left us high and dry

Denver's where I grew up, so lots of street names, etc., are familiar, though I probably couldn't find them if I went back there. I hear Ed, Thom and Randi, but Lord, how I miss Carl and the local news from what Lars calls Havana on the Willamette. Can't believe Lars he has an audience--would have thought better of PDX listeners. KPOJ recently sent me an e-mail, in response to which I promptly ordered them to unsubscribe me. Thanks for the KBOO rec. I'll give 'em a go!

I appreciated Carl's post on Blue Oregon the other day. Again--Lord, how I miss him! He is so intelligent and well-informed. Mornings are pretty empty without him!

Tired Old Cynic

[AnotherMcIntosh]

59. Reagan, of course, was the president in 1987.

[coalition_unwilling]

68. President in name only as, by 1987, according to several sources, Reagan

was already suffering the onset of Alzheimer's. (Lawrence Walsh apparently declined to indict or prosecute Reagan for Iran Contra after Walsh interviewed him and realized what was happening.)

[greyghost]

69. Very true. Howard Baker was really the President. eom

[AnotherMcIntosh]

75. It might have started in 1962.

[DBoon]

74. and Keith was on Comedy Central

Not a major network or news station

[dreamnightwind]

90. Actually he was on MS-NBC

not Comedy Central. But the larger point is correct, they don't let true left-wing views on the major networks, except to mock or discredit them. Ed Asner and Phil Donahue learned this the hard way.

[cprise]

86. The Fairness Doctrine was, at best, a red herring

In fact it may have given conservatism a leg-up in the 1970s, guaranteeing the public was exposed to ideas that would have embarrassed people in most situations as too outmoded or backwards.

The real downfall of media policy in this country was the lifting of ownership restrictions and walking away from community service standards. The Clinton-era deregulation, on top of that from the Regan era, set the stage for merger-mania (corporate centralization) and the rise of broadcast and news monopolies in rural, Midwestern and Southern markets.

[FlyinButter]

107. So true.

[Scuba]

62. No problem. Yes, RFK jr is to be admired, as was his father.

RFK's assassination was the tipping point in my political understanding. I was raised in a far-right wing family but was secretly idolizing the Kennedy's. I was 15 when JFK was killed and believed the "lone gunman" line.

In 1968 it all changed.

[truebluegreen]

76. I remember it well...

I'm younger, but my earliest political memory was staying up "late" to watch election returns in 1960, in fear that Nixon would win.

JFK's assassination was a staggering blow, as was MLK Jr, but it seemed like the lights went out for good when RFK was murdered. It feels like we've been fighting a defensive action ever since.

[love_katz]

94. That is exactly how it has felt.

Your statement: "it seemed like the lights went out for good when RFK was murdered."

It seems like we haven't just been fighting a defensive action ever since...too often it has been fighting a losing battle, since then.

I know...that is sounds too pessimistic...but it seems we take one step forward, and two steps back...at least too many times, for my taste.

I became extremely angry when Ronnie Raygun was elected (?) in 1980. I can remember being outraged when the t.v. stations were calling the election for him before the West coast polls had even closed, and many people out here had not voted yet. Then I re-read Jerry Manders' "Four Arguments For the Elimination of Television", and I decided to stop watching t.v., and got rid of my set.

However, it was during Jimmy Carter's presidency that the Wrong Wing Fundy Whackjobs really ramped up. They had been itching to roll back the gains made during the late 1960's to early 1970's. I, along with many others, knew right from the beginning what their REAL agenda actually was. But, we didn't have the money we would've needed to get our side of the issues onto the media so it could be heard and the evil of the other side exposed.

When Ronnie Raygun got into power...that is when we really stepped onto the slippery slope. And things really went downhill, from there.

[truebluegreen]

106. I was in Europe that fall of 1980, watching the campaign,

and people would ask me what I thought of ol' Ronnie. I remember I said that he'd been around for years and nobody I knew ever took him seriously.

It would have been better to say no one SHOULD take him seriously. "Morning in America", voodoo economics, "the scariest words in the English language," what a pile of ....

In my mind no single person has been more destructive of the good things this country had or could do than Saint Ronnie of Raygun. If I believed in hell I'd hope he was there.

[iemitsu]

51. 22% of Americans can't see what he's describing

or they wouldn't tune into Fox for their news.
I did not know that the number of Fox bots was so high but I should have. Where else would the half of republicans who believe the birther, commie, socialist, fascist baloney about the President get that idea?
The situation is dangerous too. And medieval.
A modern democracy can't survive if a quarter of the adults are so misinformed.
We need to establish a prevarication tax. For every lie or half truth spewed on the air the responsible group ought to pay enough for honest Americans to repair the damage.
If we could do such a thing it would not be just Fox news that ended up paying. All of the television and radio media (well most) are culpable.
If any of the, so called, main stream media wanted to avoid the tax they would have to identify, for the public, the misinformation being promoted by Fox and other purveyors of propaganda .
My personal belief is that, if the MSM worked to inform the public, rather than legitimizing Fox and republican lies, that fewer people would be fooled by the right wing propaganda.

[Scuba]

60. Good response, thanks. You know, Fox can't do this alone. Most of the media is complicit ...

... in this mass media manipulation. Simply repeating what is said is not journalism, but that's what most of the major media outlets do. Ergo the lies are seen to be as credible as the truth.

Fairness doctrine needs to be restored and consolidation of media ownership needs to be reversed. Break up the big conglomerates and make sure the internet stays open, keeping the price of entry low.

[iemitsu]

67. Yes, to all you say.

Propaganda is an art and those in power have perfected its usage.
Since the media is "free and liberal" and our national identity intimately connected to the idea that the press is the watchdog of democracy (Peter Zenger), using main stream media personalities, as the primary vehicle for the dissemination of state propaganda, has been hugely successful in convincing most in the US to buy the government line.
American pundits are not journalists they are state agents (some literally as CIA). Most Americans passively receive their news in front of the television from familiar faces believed to be honest. All the news outlets are corporate controlled and therefore all voice the same perspective when describing events.
The propaganda is reinforced.
Since Fox News is not condemned by the trusted media it is seen as a legitimate source of information.
Left wing perspective is not legitimized in this way.

[love_katz]

95. Someone once posted...

that at least the Russians knew that Provda was propganda, and reacted to any broadcasts from them accordingly.

I wish more people would see that our airwaves have been sold off to the wealthy for the purpose of spewing propaganda.

[iemitsu]

101. Hear, hear.

I wish that were so too. If we all recognized that our media was the voice of our oppressors we would better understand what they say.
When I watch television news I see millionaires laughing at us as they twist the truth to legitimatize the ugly behaviors of the uber-classes. I hate Diane Sawyer the most. I can barely keep from spitting every time I see her creepy smile.
Years ago I discovered that what was being said on the nightly news, I had read about three days earlier on DU. Often, I had had the opportunity to read several articles about the topic and digest the ideas and comments of DUers on related threads. I had time to think about what was being reported and make sense of things before I saw the story on television. Therefore, I would notice how the personality relating the "news' was interpreting the story for the audience, which aspects of the event were being emphasized and which were being buried.
Actually my 85 year old mother-in-law, who doesn't read DU and who barely reads English, has noticed the same thing about the news. She sees the stories being reported on the evening news three days earlier on her computer. She laughs about it.
Maybe others are discovering the same thing?

[pnwmom]

88. Why the lame attempt at putting him down? Fox viewers can't see what he's describing,

and neither can millions of others who don't follow news or politics very closely.

[Scuba]

99. It was definately NOT an attempt to "put him down" , but to ...

... make the point that Fox's bias is so obvious that anyone can see it. Good on RFK jr for speaking up, which so many are unwilling to do.

[pnwmom]

100. Unfortunately, millions of Fox followers aren't smart enough to see it.

So I agree with you that it's good when higher profile people speak up.

[Scuba]

102. I think many of Fox's viewers know they're being used, but they're more comfortable ...

... with that than they are with re-examining their personal beliefs with an open mind.

[RKP5637]

2. Yep, and Rupert Murdoch is working to buy up more media outlets in the US so he can

spew more RW propaganda. If there were a psychiatrist for countries, the US is woefully in need of one. As the propaganda bends, so does the country.

[dawn frenzy adams]

15. We can't allow that.

STOP MURDOCH!
http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/stop_murdoch/?r_by=51248-5414735-q3p_Knx&rc=mailto1

[RKP5637]

25. You should also post this, I think, as an OP for visibility if not already done. n/t

[woo me with science]

19. And Obama's FCC is getting ready to help.

Anyone the least bit surprised?

MORE Media Consolidation on the Table before Christmas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021896902

Moyers: FCC moves toward more media consolidation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021924578

[RKP5637]

24. In the big picture, no, I'm not surprised. It's just another WTF moment in my life of

which I sadly have many.

[pacalo]

37. First I've heard of this; thanks for passing it on.

[GatorLarry]

72. It's mostly the same . . .

Regardless of a Democrat Administration or a Republican Administration, the agencies give favorable rulings to the industries they regulate and then, like magic, the Director or Assistant Director will "retire" from their "public service" and take a job with someone he/she gave a sweetheart ruling to just a few months prior.

[llmart]

78. Please use the correct adjective to describe our party.

It's "Democratic" Administration.

Words matter.

[abelenkpe]

27. What happened to anti trust laws? Nt

[RKP5637]

32. Amazing, isn't it ... we now seem to be a country that embraces monopolies and stifles

individuals. Another example, Walmart. And one day it will be the Koch Brothers, declaring they have monopolized the US and are now the rightful owners of the country.

[ThomThom]

38. I imagine Bain Clear Channel may have some more outlets for sale soon

harvest time you know

[mazzarro]

39. And We Continue To Wait For A Challenger!

When will an enlightened money man from the left rise up to buy sizeable portion of the media to challenge Murdoch empire. We cannot rely on corporate controlled MSNBC to do the job for too long.

[RKP5637]

44. If we continue to allow them to buy up media and broadcast propaganda then frankly

all is lost IMO. Countries are often controlled through propaganda. The right knows how to take over an entire country, bit by bit and IMO the left willingly allows this to happen. I often think the left is not a collective of the brightest tools in the tool shed when it comes to controlling the message to the masses.

[Joe Bacon]

64. Won't happen.

After seeing how Air America self destructed, it's clear that nobody on the left will try again.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Point well taken, but don't forget Rush.

He's the seething cyst of hatred that was the catalyst for all of this. Twenty years ago, I was sounding the alarm about that guy. By the mid-90s, most that I knew agreed - he made hatred and dismissing of those with whom you disagreed just fine for the right wing.

Fox has taken it to another level, but it's Rush who was the instigator.

[Octafish]

23. ABC and the Rise of Rush Limbaugh

CIA played a major role in the ascension of the right via media.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-libmedia.htm

[blm]

34. It started with Rev Moon, the Korean cult leader and longtime crony (since the 60s) of GHWBush.

Then Rupert Murdoch the Australian extortionist was tapped to expand his empire into the US media market, with the serial child rapist Rush Limbaugh dominating broadcast radio.

New World Order media targeted the rightwing brain for exploitation and now those same people who used to warn about NWO are its leading protectors in service to their corporate masters. That couldn't have happened without Moon, Murdoch and Limbaugh crafting the GOP's pro-NWO talking points in ways to attract these voters and mislead them into betraying their own country.

[kelliekat44]

36. Some people because of their behavior becom history's villans. Rush is one.

May he never have a peaceful night of sleep and may he never find oxy.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

48. I noticed it, too...

... and all I would get were laughs when I would mention that this guy is injecting so much hate into the unknowing.

[pandr32]

4. The problem is that Fox so-called News viewers

think they are watching the channel that 'has the balls' to tell them the truth, and do not recognize that they are being manipulated.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/1964:fourteen-propaganda-techniques-fox-news-uses-to-brainwash-americans

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Sadly, that's exactly what they think. Everything else is just liberal lies.

[The Wizard]

18. They've got the unwitting dupes

believing that everyone with a different view of the world is victimizing them. And Pox is their lone refuge. Very Machiavellian.

[ThomThom]

40. I think some viewers are figuring it out

we need to point out all the things they predicted if Obama is re-elected when they don't happen and talk up the things that do happen that help all those people

We need to point out the obstruction of republican'ts every day over and over

Democrats need to find a voice
Obama needs to speak directly to the people more ... like FDR

[RKP5637]

45. EXACTLY!!!!!!!! "Obama needs to speak directly to the people more ...

like FDR." I OFTEN think Obama misses a lot of golden opportunities. Why, I don't know, but often it's very disappointing!!!

[rainin]

5. This is not hyperbole.

Radio Rwanda, folks. If we don't study the past, we are likely to repeat it. Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Our country won't be broken apart by machetes. It happens by making fellow Americans the "other". Poor people, minorities, immigrants, liberals, atheists, gays, lesbians are all the "other". Divide and conquer.

My family has seen this division personally. Our family is split down the middle. Half liberals and half conservatives. It has been a couple of years since we were able to come together and have meaningful discussions. We have different sets of facts. Not different opinions, different facts. Plus, the conservative side of my family is full of hate. I grew up with these people (my mom, my siblings). This is new. They hate democrats because liberals think small businesses "didn't build that", because liberals haven't realized that Bush is not the President, because America is in more danger than ever because of an illegitimate President who apologizes to America's enemies. It never ends. We're irreconcilably divided.

One only has to listen to Fox News for a single segment to hear how unhinged they are. They are creating an alternate reality that represents liberals as the enemy of democracy, liberty, and country.

Robert F. Kennedy is right, but he could have been even bolder. Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda.

[Johnny2X2X]

6. Exactly

You have hit the nail on the head. It's about facts. The 2 sides can no longer debate or discuss subjects because one side has a completely different set of facts than the other side.

FOX viewers have been brainwashed into thinking FOX is the only reasonable source for facts.

With as biased as MSNBC can be, at least MSNBC viewers do not have a different set of facts than the rest of the World.

FOX is tearing this country apart. I thought their embarrassing election coverage might push some people away from them or might force them to start being more truthful with the facts. It doesn'e seem to.

[The Wizard]

20. Have you noticed that conservatives

rarely laugh and absolutely don't understand irony and satire.
Pox has made them permanently angry. As Lindsey Graham astutely commented: "We don't have enough angry white guys." When people are angry and seething they can't think clearly and become easy prey for media predators like Pox.

[rainin]

22. Remember when Romney laughed?

It looked like it made his face hurt.

[mountain grammy]

35. Just last week, my brother in law was quoting the "Obama bowing to Muslims" crap

that he's seen on Fox news. Obama's not a Christian, blah, blah, blah. But the last time we had a discussion, I heard him actually say "taxes will have to go up." He's brainwashed but he's not stupid. We have to pay for Bush's wars and he knows it. He hates it when I say "Obama is a devout Christian and moderate Republican," you know, facts!

[RKP5637]

47. We are witnessing the brainwashing of America into possibly another civil war of

sorts with the hateful rhetoric spewed by these sewers we call news, for example, Fox News. OK, free speech is fine, but when that so called free speech destroys your country, maybe it's time to wake up and not just mimic the words. We are moving away from free speech in this country into large monopolized RW megaphones spewing hatred and misinformation. That, is NOT free speech. And sadly many in this country are not educated enough, willfully stupid, too stupid or just too damn naive to understand the difference.

[dreamnightwind]

91. And where do their "facts" come from?

Many of them come from places like Heritage, CATO, American Enterprise Institute, etc. There's a huge, well-funded infrastructure of "research" that supplies Fox and their friends with what passes for facts. I don't know of any realistic way to fight that, debunking only goes so far when the viewers are in an info bubble and will never see their "facts" debunked.

This works both ways, of course, similar issues on the left, but nowhere near the scale, since the rich and the corporations are better served by funding right-wing talking point research.

[vinny9698]

7. The Righ Wing has become a group fo true believers

No matter how much the facts are against them, they make up their own reality. I have coworkers who believe the Fox nonsense as gospel. No matter the facts.

[iemitsu]

58. All Americans are, in a sense, subject to the sorts of lies spewed by Fox.

Fox banks on the reality that Americans believe that the US is exceptional and that we represent freedom, justice and liberty.
Anyone who challenges these notions is discounted as anti-American. Therefore we don't see or hear those in authority questioning Fox's veracity.
For a country that claims to defend the free exchange of ideas we really tolerate only a very narrow range of them.
Our system is good, therefore other systems are not as good.
Because we perceive that America is best, we vilify perfectly reasonable ideas and policies (like socialism) making it impossible to consider making changes that might benefit most of us.
Even DU works to scrub "radical" ideas from the public discourse, if not by design then by default, due to the many voices that shout down any ideas that challenge the status-quo.

[Flatulo]

77. Can you expand on this?

"For a country that claims to defend the free exchange of ideas we really tolerate only a very narrow range of them."

Not all ideas get the same volume level or exposure because not all ideas are treated as equally sound, true or valid by a majority. For example, you cited DU as scrubbing certain speech, and in particular, 9/11 conspiracy theores come to mind.

Putting aside for a moment the fact that DU is privately owned and operated, and have no obligation to tolerate conspiracy theories any more than they would be obligated to tolerate RW talking points, do you think it is somehow unfair that such speech is relegated to a sub-forum, or that they are not given headline status on all the evening news stations?

Likewise, since the major media in this country are corporate owned, do they not have the right to determine what material they broadcast that they see as best serving their market?

There is a political spectrum in this country (well, everywhere) that I believe resembles a normal distribution (the classic bell-shaped curve). Fox News obviously caters to the right side of this curve, and MSNBC serves the left side, with CNN and the over-the-air networks more-or-less serve the vast center. The people on the right side think that the media is very strongly left-biased, and the people on the left think that the media is strongly right-biased. This tells me that on balance, the entire spectrum is being served. People can choose for themselves what to watch, and by extension, what to believe.

I think the reason why people on the left go absolutely apoplectic over Fox is that they don't accept that 90% of their programming is opinion (propaganda). Their straight news reporting (man bites dog) is fine with me. But don't people see that MSNBC does the same thing? Keith Olberman always had only liberals on his program. Ed Shulz and Rachel are obviously extremely liberal. People on the right see this as blatant liberal propaganda.

I would propose the following: let each network retain full control over their content, and let people decide what to believe. However, anything other than straight, objectively verifiable news stories be CLEARLY IDENTIFIED as OPINION pieces.

I don't support a return of the Fairness Doctrine because it would force privately held outlets to tailor their programming per the dictates of whatever government is currently in power. Many people here feel that it would restore balance, but I believe we already have balance, and most of the griping is for no other reason than that Fox is highly successful at marketing their message to a wide audience. I think the real goal is to advance the liberal agenda at any cost.

I personally don't feel that Fox is tearing the country apart. I believe that the divisions we see are real, genuine differences in perceptions of what the role of government should be, what kind of society we want to be, whether or not we become more like the European statist model (not a bad thing - the Scandanavians are the happiest and healthiest people in the world) or whether we retain our Big Swingin' Dick model.

But I don't think having the government steer the discussion is the way to go.

Then again, I could just be completely full of shit.

[iemitsu]

80. The Fairnes Doctrine was established to make sure that

privately owned broadcast companies would serve the interests of the public since their programing is broadcast over publicly held airwaves. It was part of the deal companies made to gain access to the airwaves. They still have access to the audience but no longer have to make payment to the public, in the form of balanced programing.
The argument used to justify dumping the Fairness Doctrine was that the numbers of broadcast networks and increased to the public nullified the need for balanced programing since there would be more choice for listeners/viewers. There are many areas of the country where this choice does not exist. And even in urban areas the voice of big business dominates the air (it has been quantified and between 80% and 90% of the total air space has right wing programming.
I am not crusader to have the Fairness Doctrine reinstated but it had the effect of bringing a middling approach top news reporting (catering to the lump in the middle of your bell curve).
Certainly I think that privately owned programming or websites have the right to determine the structure and content of their shows/boards and I was not thinking of official attitudes or rules when I suggested that ideas that question the status-quo are challenged on DU. Rather I was thinking of the tendency of many to defend accepted institutions and ideas even in the face of evidence that indicates they don't deserve defense. specifically I had in mind, those who belittle people's concerns about the nuclear industry but there are other examples. I was not thinking about 9/11 when I posted.
All of these observations I made, not as criticism of DU, but as a way to understand the impact that Fox News has had on the public.
Evidently I was not clear when posting earlier. I don't think you are full of shit but I do think you misread my intent.
I'm sure its my fault.

[Flatulo]

85. Oh, I wasn't implying that you're a Conspiracy Theorist...

It was just the first thing that popped into my head. Your post was actually very clear.

I do understand the rationale behind the Fairness Doctrine, and I understand the calls for its return. It's just the case that I don't believe that 80 to 90% of television news is biased towards the right, with the highly visible exception of Fox. As I mention down thread, I'd certainly look at studies backing such an assertion and who carried them out.

Thanks for not flaming me!

Peace.

[rainin]

81. Full of shit? I wouldn't be that harsh. Uninformed, definitely.

There is a political spectrum in this country (well, everywhere) that I believe resembles a normal distribution (the classic bell-shaped curve).

There is a political spectrum.We have more democrats than republicans, but the numbers hover around the 50% mark in elections. But programming is nowhere near a normal distribution. Not even close. Approx. 90% of talk radio is RW. Progressive and Liberal radio shows are disappearing. 90% might be low as that percentage doesn't reflect the losses we've sustained since 2005.

I think the reason why people on the left go absolutely apoplectic over Fox is that they don't accept that 90% of their programming is opinion (propaganda)

No, the reason we despise Fox is that they lie. They misrepresent the truth. They character assassinate. They create a reality that divides our country. MSNBC has shows that do that too, all in favor of RW'ers. The liberals we have... the FEW liberals we have on MSNBC tell the truth. (If you want to argue this, you might be asked to give an example. Warning: it's easy to find examples of Fox lies. I doubt you can find a single lie from Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Ezra Klein and the few other liberals we have at MSNBC.

I personally don't feel that Fox is tearing the country apart. I believe that the divisions we see are real, genuine differences in perceptions of what the role of government should be, what kind of society we want to be

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm afraid that it isn't a very informed one. You haven't been paying attention. People can disagree and have different opinions, but they can't have meaningful discourse if they have different "facts". Fox spews lies so fast, it is impossible to keep up with it.

I have pulled up a 3 minute clip of a Fox Business and stopped it every time I caught a lie or misrepresentation and dissected it. It takes 2 seconds to say the lie but several minutes to explain why it is false. They can weave so many lies in segment, it is virtually impossible to refute.

What Roger Ailes has built is truly dangerous to democracy.

[Flatulo]

84. I appreciate your reasoned response, and I don't question the 90% figure for

RW domination of radio, but I'd like to see some studies that show what the percentage off television 'news' is considered to be biased to the right. To be honest, I watch very little TV outside of HGTV, but I have seen a fair amount of Fox and I find their straight news to be pretty non-controversial. The problem with Fox is that a very large percentage of their programming, probably 80% or more, is 100% opinion, but is not identified as such. Yeah, I'm aware of a number of celebrated falsehoods that they've broadcast, like identifying Rs as Ds with associated unfavorable coverage. Perhaps they should be fined for such transgressions.

But I see the complaints about their election night coverage as being outright lies as extreme. Sure, they had Karl Rove there spinning his numbers, and he was wrong. But was he aware that the actual reality on the ground was not favoring Romney? Election night presents a flood of data, and profound projections are made on somewhat scant data, albeit hopefully using sound sampling methodologies. But was Rove outright lying? I doubt it. I think his cognitive dissonance was running interference for reality, and his projections were based more on wishful thinking and arrogance than on deception. And to their credit, the Fox data crunchers in the back room got it right.

But as regards the Fairness Doctrine, be careful what you wish for. I believe that people of good faith but with different ideological leanings could arrive at vastly different rulings on whether or not programming is 'fair and balanced'. The stuff around the mean can be pretty fuzzy, and I don't want the government deciding for me that I need to see less or more of this or that programming.

Thanks again for not flaming me, and if you have a chance to cite any television news fairness studies, I'd certainly look at them. Myself, I remember a survey a while back where a large majority of journalists self-identified as liberal. It was a long time ago, and yes, their viewpoints do not necessarily make it onto the air if they do not align with the agenda of their corporate masters, but that's one data point. I found it believable since journalists tend to be highly educated and have to be able to understand widely opposing viewpoints, which typically are characteristics of liberals.

[ladjf]

8. Kennedy, Jr. is a smart man. America would do well to heed his warning.nt

[RKP5637]

49. Much as Eisenhower's warning about the Military Industrial Complex was

heeded ... or Jefferson's warning about the mix of corporations with government ... and also only a two-party system. Sadly the warnings by very adept people are often ignored and paved over with $$$$$. I really believe change for the better only comes about through catastrophes, and sadly we well might have to go through that again somewhere down the road.

[slackmaster]

9. A lot of people watch way too much TV

[Adsos Letter]

55. +1. My in-laws are big FOX watchers, and they always seem to have the tv on.

Either that, or the radio. It would drive me nuts (or nuttier anyway).

[Democratopia]

104. My in-laws too and I have never heard ordinary people spew such crap. Their minds have been twisted.

[LynneSin]

10. It's like they are Citizen KKKane

seriously!

[Gidney N Cloyd]

11. Now, now, now... both sides do it.

[SoapBox]

12. Exactly!

I want Murdoch to go back to Australia. Better yet Gitmo.

[smirkymonkey]

63. I want the old man to finally die. Sorry.

The planet would be better off with out him and his hatred.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. He's exactly right.

And I don't anticipate this civil war ending well.

[John2]

16. It is best

to remember the results of the Civil War also. You can't stop the forces of change. Fox don't want change, because they are catering to a certain Demographic, that isn't monolithic. That is what forces tension among groups of people. Opportunity needs to spread fairly among every group. Fox has very little diversity, which restricts the voices in the programming. How many minorities do you see expressing the views of African Americans, Hispanics and Asians in their programming? MS NBC does not reflect the image of FOX. So you get this narrow view from one Demographic. And that view comes from right wing talk show hosts in red states. And when they do find a minority to represent the views of someone like Rush Limbaugh, that person is usually a minority within their own ethnic group. They usually go against the interests of that group, because they usually are opportunists, and see a way to move up financially. The Historical comparison are Blacks that supported the South because they themselves, owned slaves.

[malthaussen]

43. I think that's a good point.

Fox isn't converting anybody, they are simply preaching to the choir. And that choir is very restrictive, and declining in numbers.

-- Mal

[blackdiamond62]

21. Every time Fox News

says their tag line "Fair and Balanced" I laugh and think WHEN?

[onehandle]

29. This is our Second Civil War.

Virtually the same states. Same racist gunbaggers.

Backed by 1%ers with an agenda.

[Great Caesars Ghost]

93. Problem is, a lot of like minded people are just too fucking soft.

[abelenkpe]

31. So true

They've broken families and divided the country. Hate FOX news.

[RKP5637]

33. Are TPTB of this country naive, or just complicit and complacent, just cogs in a machine

they have seriously lost control of ...

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. Not just Fox News, Rush Limbaugh et al

the Reagan-era repeal of the FCC's Fairness Doctrine is responsible, as it's allowed the extreme right wing of the Republican Party to employ their frankly Goebbels-inspired Big lie propaganda in the creation of a conservative media universe which includes not only Fox News but conservative talk radio and in whihc many people may never hear any news or information which doesn't have a right-wing bias. This fact is responsible for the right wing's accusations that the American mainstream news media (CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, NYT, Washington Post, et al) are "liberal"; they in fact aren't, mostly, being by and large moderate, but crucially not having a conservative bias; "not blatantly conservative" = "liberal", apparently.

[Uncle Joe]

46. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Adenoid_Hynkel.

[Aviation Pro]

50. Fortunately, the internet...

...and it's free flowing sewer pipe of ideas is beginning to balance the "conservative" biased media. It's no secret that the President's campaign was so far ahead of Lurch the Fucking Stiff's^TM in terms of IT and harnessing the World Wide Web.

[liberal N proud]

52. America has the best disguised propaganda machine the world has ever seen

FOX is leading the charge in propaganda.

[Skittles]

54. but that's the thing - it ISN'T disguised

WE think surely any intelligent person can see what it is - because it is SOOO fucking obvious.....but......WTF!!!!!!!!!!

[love_katz]

98. I agree, Skittles.

Why, why, why, don't so many people get it?!?

Partly from saturation bombing of propaganda from sewer outlets like Pox, and partly because it takes a lot of time, research, and just plain hard work of actually thinking to see that Pox are a bunch of stinking shills for the 1%.

[Blunt477]

53. They Preach Hate And Fear

And Their Good At It!!!

[rainlillie]

56. There's no denying that Fox News has been very harmful to our country..

The biggest threat to the republican party is; an informed public. Fox News has made it their business to keep folks uninformed.

[blkmusclmachine]

61. This goes back to the 90's.

Clinton helped it along a bit, too.

[Robo47]

65. Fox is absolutely a wing of repub party

Faux news is the propaganda arm of the GOP.

[Robo47]

66. Rupert "Goebels" Murdock, enemy of the United States

This filth pot needs to lose his FCC licenses and be tried for treason....maybe that's precisely why he maintains dual citizenship? Time to send this fraud packing.

[LaPera]

70. All for the richest 1% and their corporations & now they want it all including slave labor!

Oh yeah......Fox 'news' is pushing republican corporate propaganda through the lying hateful, greedy republican corporate ideology & agenda.

But who is too fucking stupid not to know this?

[TinCup]

71. One need only read Profiles In Courage

One need only read JFK's Profiles in Courage to read the same kind of hate speak in the run up to the Civil War. I have been saying this same thing for over 2 years.

[rainin]

82. Any insight into what can be done about it?

If we've seen this before and we managed to establish some integrity in news/reporting, how do we get it back? A democracy can't survive without a fully independent 4th estate.

I'm interested in more of what you've been saying for the last 2 years. Can you summarize your thoughts for me? I'm new.

[certainot]

79. kennedy is wrong- fox is a tick on talk radio's ass

t that unchallenged talk radio repetition to 50 mil a week. fox is the visual icing on the lie turd pie of talk radio.

it's been a huge mistake to blame fox for what are mostly talk radio successes. there is no searchable transcript database of the main talkers so there's no way for the analysts and strategist to read and monitor and study th effects. the left has been getting their ass kicked by it for 20 years because they don't notice the effect of all the repetition until the lies become truth- and then it's too late. considering the time lost re global warming ignoring talk radio has been the biggest blunder in political history. look at the effect of the reaction to sandra fluke women- votes and activism. if that reaction had happened when limbaugh was doing the same and maybe worse to anita hill we wouldn't have clarence thomas on the supreme court and if it had continued we might have avoided 20 years of republicans shitting on the country and the people and the constitution.

talk radio is much more effective as a creator of lies and memes. its 1000 or so main stations are coordinated in their messaging. in most parts of the country there are no free alternatives for politics while driving or working. it reaches 50 mil a week. most of the talkers don't take real callers that might challenge their 'facts'. they use paid callers that pretend to be genuine. and they don't have to look into the camera when they lie.

like news papers and websites, fox is one of a number of political channels that can be turned to easily. they have to pretend to be balanced and occasionally allow dissenting opinions. they cannot repeat over and over to the extent talk radio can. you can't get those talking fox heads while driving.

without talk radio and the free speech free ride the left gives it, fox couldn't do shit.

[Flatulo]

87. I had kind of the same sentiment. There really is no counterpart to Talk Radio,

whereas one can simply change the channel from Fox to MSNBC.

[Patiod]

108. RW talk & "Christian" radio are all that's on some places

Whole states, like Wyoming. Maybe some Country/Western music but otherwise it's a vast radio wasteland of lies, some of which are wrapped in the sweet protective coat of Jesus - those "Family Research Council" type groups are every bit as bad as Fox, and the association with Christianity gives them even more clout.

[kimbutgar]

83. You are so right. Fox has destroyed families.

I've read here and have experienced a loss of a long time friend. Fox has brainwashed people so much with hate. People forgot love is more important.

[Kennah]

89. This is scary as hell

He's only stating what I know to be true, but the times I've heard him, mostly on Ring of Fire, I find him to be reserved and not given to hyperbole.

This is scary because perhaps we're much closer to the brink of Civil War than I want to believe.

[Great Caesars Ghost]

92. If it's civil war they want, then I am ready!!!

[defacto7]

96. I've been preaching about the takeover of America

through RW media and news control for years. It's here and now. I wish those of us that have been knocking our brains out over this since the 80's would have been taken seriously. Well, here we are.

[lexw]

97. My mother and young sister's brains were highjacked by Fox News.

Very sad to watch: as the words they spoke obviously came directly from Fox /Limbaugh (I think most of you have heard it).

I recall my mom saying one day, when she found all her other children were very liberal and voted for Democrats: "Why would you vote that way?" ...she asked me in a disgusted tone. I don't recall what I said, I just remember cursing Fox News afterward.

[Democratopia]

103. The Obama administration has done a terrible job at communicating its message,

Obama won the election, despite most people believing taxes are higher and that he has been on an unprecedented spending spree. Obama has made little effort to correct the misconceptions. Obama has made zero effort to put the record right on his own health care reform or global warming.

Fox News and Limbaugh disgust me and I am disgusted at what they have done to the country. I have family members who believe their every word, but I also think this divided nation suits leading Democrats as a strategy to win elections. It is not only damaging for the people of this nation, it is damaging to the entire planet.

It is time for politicians of all parties in this nation to stop playing games,

[kydo]

105. It's kinda become a rite of passage

To finally be fed up and post a rant about the evils of fox news. I did a couple of weeks ago. But its not that most of us finally see what is happening, (we have and we know), its more when we are finally sick and tired of being sick and tired of the down right out lies.

When I did my rant against fox news some wonderful DUers help talked me down from my stark raving mad soap box. I think it was the story about Obama being the king pen of the sex slave trade, or maybe it was the over kill on benghazi. Anyway it was DUers that reminded me about free speech, not that I forgot its the seeing red in a blind rage sometimes you need to be slapped around a bit to come out of it. Think Nurse Chapel slapping Spock.

In my rant I didn't want fox news gone, I think I just wanted to sue them for the pain an suffering they are causing me.

I still don't want fox news gone, well if they went bankrupt and had to cease I would shed no tears might even do a happy dance.

But fox news does have the right to exist, just as msnbc. Its just it isn't news. And should not be allowed to say or even pretend to claim to be a news source. This broadcast network should be renamed fox entertainment tv and not allowed to use the slogan fair and balanced.

rush should be taken off the air while courts and legal bodies set fines and these fines are paid. Not to mention sponsors need to stop funding this crap. I say this because right now his show and shows like his, are not conservative programing. It is a hate program and the groups and or people that set standards such as when the f bomb is droped someone gets fined right? There are hate crime laws. This should apply to the whole lot not just rush, beck and that whole hate spewing group. palin should just be fined every time she opens her mouth, or image is shown on tv.

It is a very thin line this free speech thing. But I'd rather have free speech then not have it. We can turn the channel. The only thing that has changed for me, is that in the past I'd say nothing, just nod my head when a ditto head started dribbling the hate talk. I'd wait in the room that forced us to watch fox news or bombarded with hate radio. Those days are over.

I will openly mock viewers of these programs. I will demand the channel be changed. If they don't I will leave but not in silence. They can beat me up I don't care, I'll heal, I got tri-care I'll be ok. Plus I'll sue.

[rainin]

109. Another activist, Chris Hedges, warning of a coming Civil War: