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people

(821 posts)
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 02:25 PM Saturday

Trump Has Long Disdained Europe's Elites. Now, It's Official.

Source: New YorkTimes

The Trump administration issued a national security strategy paper this week that called for European nations to take “primary responsibility” for their own defense, indicating that the United States should no longer guarantee Europe’s security. It accused the European Union of stifling “political liberty,” warned that some NATO members risked becoming “majority non-European,” and said the U.S. should align with “patriotic European parties” — code for Europe’s far-right movements.

The blunt, bracing and official nature of the document added injury to incessant insult, making clear to mainstream European leaders that they stand at a strategic crossroads. On a paper stamped with the president’s seal, the trans-Atlantic alliance was being openly denigrated by the superpower across the ocean that has ensured European security in the 80 years since World War II.

“It’s up there at whitehouse.gov staring the world in the face,” Charles A. Kupchan, who was senior director for European Affairs on the National Security Council in the Obama administration, said of the document. “And that makes it very hard to digest,” added Mr. Kupchan, now professor of international affairs at Georgetown University.

The now explicit prospect of the United States’ withdrawing its protection came days after Russia — whose talking points on European countries, some experts said, were echoed in the strategy document — warned that it was ready for war with Europe. It made more urgent a debate within the continent about whether its long-term interest lay in holding on to America regardless of the humiliations, or in facing a new reality, arming up and going it alone.

-- -- -- --- ---

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/06/world/europe/trump-europe-strategy-document.html



The Trump administration wants to ditch Europe except to the extent that it wants to join with far right European parties. Truly HORRIBLE.
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Trump Has Long Disdained Europe's Elites. Now, It's Official. (Original Post) people Saturday OP
Does this mean we get free education, healthcare, month long vacations, Irish_Dem Saturday #1
No. You get nothing except European allies never trusting you again. And another stain on our country Evolve Dammit Saturday #6
Paying cash for our shame, humiliation, loss of our country. Irish_Dem Saturday #12
Post removed Post removed Saturday #13
Back in the day when we believed in democracy, freedom, rule of law. Irish_Dem Saturday #15
Hi, Vlad not fooled Saturday #19
Trump's U.S. loses credibility and moral legitimacy with each passing day bucolic_frolic Saturday #2
So much for us being the "Leader of the Free World" Nictuku Saturday #3
The Trump Magat goal: all white everywhere. ananda Saturday #4
So ... Trmp not only hates foreigners, he hates foreigners' foreigners ? Wouldn't that include us ? eppur_se_muova Saturday #5
I said years ago that the EU should imagine a world where they are estranged from the US and prepare for it. Solly Mack Saturday #7
Real headline: GOP gives green light for Putin to invade bronxiteforever Saturday #8
Luckily, Russia ground down its "glossy brochure" military in Ukraine. paleotn Saturday #9
Republicans are actually preparing all the NATO popsdenver Saturday #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Omaha Steve Saturday #11
You could call it the law of unintended consequences if it wasn't so bloody predictable and ironic: Emrys Saturday #14
The next three years cannot pass fast enough. Sneederbunk Saturday #16
Then Trump needs to get out amcgrath Saturday #17
So if there are any drone attacks on Drumph golf courses, not only will there be no forces mustered. jls4561 Saturday #18
Trump disdains ALL foreigners, not just elites. He hates the elites because they see right through his cheap-ass bluff. Martin68 Sunday #20
So one Macron's predictions comes to fruition again. Xolodno Sunday #21

Irish_Dem

(78,697 posts)
1. Does this mean we get free education, healthcare, month long vacations,
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 02:27 PM
Saturday

great working hours, free childcare, etc etc??

Since we are saving so much money on cutting back our military?

Evolve Dammit

(21,373 posts)
6. No. You get nothing except European allies never trusting you again. And another stain on our country
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 04:01 PM
Saturday

Irish_Dem

(78,697 posts)
12. Paying cash for our shame, humiliation, loss of our country.
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 07:27 PM
Saturday

Americans have to be the most stupid people on the planet.

Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #12)

Irish_Dem

(78,697 posts)
15. Back in the day when we believed in democracy, freedom, rule of law.
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 08:20 PM
Saturday

And we were decent, fair, honest people.

We saw the world descend into darkness and evil and stepped up to the plate.

Yes greed and selfish behavior is now good.
Doing the right thing is bad.

bucolic_frolic

(53,586 posts)
2. Trump's U.S. loses credibility and moral legitimacy with each passing day
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 02:29 PM
Saturday

These are the things that were foundational to human rights, economic growth, private banking and capitalist profits and sound currency and lending, democracy. All the lessons we learned from two World Wars, eroding down the drain.

ananda

(34,185 posts)
4. The Trump Magat goal: all white everywhere.
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 03:11 PM
Saturday

The only problem: there won't be much of a
world for those whites to live in.

Those far-righters really like destroying
things too much.

eppur_se_muova

(40,688 posts)
5. So ... Trmp not only hates foreigners, he hates foreigners' foreigners ? Wouldn't that include us ?
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 03:12 PM
Saturday

Of course it does, and he does hate us -- after all, we're "non-European" pretty much by definition. But then Trmp was always a low-definition guy.


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mad-magazine-super-patriot/ (The cartoon was actually published in 1969, if that matters)

Solly Mack

(96,220 posts)
7. I said years ago that the EU should imagine a world where they are estranged from the US and prepare for it.
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 04:30 PM
Saturday

It wasn't unimaginable. Not at all.

bronxiteforever

(11,019 posts)
8. Real headline: GOP gives green light for Putin to invade
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 05:18 PM
Saturday

Europe. By elites does the Times mean democracy!!!!

paleotn

(21,328 posts)
9. Luckily, Russia ground down its "glossy brochure" military in Ukraine.
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 05:40 PM
Saturday

They don't have much left to invade with.

And yes, they mean actual, western democracy. Silly NYT's scribblers using weasel words. I sometimes wonder if there's a Weasel Words 101 class at every US school of journalism.

popsdenver

(1,314 posts)
10. Republicans are actually preparing all the NATO
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 06:14 PM
Saturday

countries with what is a harbinger of things to come. Along with closing ALL our Military Bases in those countries and bringing back the Military soldiers to the U.S to beef up soldiers in America, for a time when he declares Military use for Martial Law.......Trump gets Putin off his back, by pulling the U.S. Military out of all the NATO countries Putin has been wanting to invade, like Hitler did...........Also, when the Republicans pull all military aid for Ukraine, and the NATO countries are forced to withdraw their Aid, Russia can take over ALL of Ukraine, without resistance.....

Response to people (Original post)

Emrys

(8,884 posts)
14. You could call it the law of unintended consequences if it wasn't so bloody predictable and ironic:
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 07:52 PM
Saturday
Top US official berates Europe over cutting American industry out of defense buildup

BRUSSELS — U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landau on Wednesday slammed European NATO allies for prioritizing their own defense industry over American arms suppliers, according to three NATO diplomats.

The intervention came during Wednesday's meeting of NATO foreign ministers — which was skipped by Landau's boss Marco Rubio.

Landau, a longtime NATO skeptic who spoke first at the closed-door meeting, told ministers not to “bully” his country’s defense firms out of participating in Europe’s rearmament.
...
A U.S. State Department official said: "Deputy Secretary Landau delivered two key messages. One is the is the need for Europe to turn its defense spending commitments into capabilities. The second is that protectionist and exclusionary policies that bully American companies out of the market undermines our collective defense."

https://www.politico.eu/article/christopher-landau-top-us-official-berates-europe-nato-cut-industry-defense-buildup/


Yeah, nobody likes a bully, huh?

amcgrath

(418 posts)
17. Then Trump needs to get out
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 08:44 PM
Saturday

There is no reason for the US to retain its forty or so bases in Europe. This includes it's many airbases and naval facilities which although "promoted" as forward bases against Russia, have in reality only ever been used as forward bases for attacking the Middle East, securing oil and "protecting" the Suez Canal.
It is almost certain that pulling out of Europe would also mean there would be restrictions on airspace across Europe for US military aircraft, with no refuelling, which would also mean no refuelling for tankers for refuelling in flight, and the closure of ports to the US throughout the Mediterranean.
To put into perspective what a "conflict" in the Middle East could look like in future, we can look at the recent bombing of Iran. For operational (and probably legal reasons) Trumps attack was sent from the USA. 6 bombers flew for 37 hours straight. Along the route they used another 125 support planes, including forward reconnaissance and 52 tankers, the bulk of those planes - not being engaged in actual bombing - would have left from European airbases. The mission inolved 4,000 personnel and was a failure. Without European bases, there would have been no refuelling or support for about 50% of the mission. It couldn't have happened.

jls4561

(2,805 posts)
18. So if there are any drone attacks on Drumph golf courses, not only will there be no forces mustered.
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 09:26 PM
Saturday

The locals will be evacuated, but notification to the department of grab your crotch and grunt will occur two weeks after said attack, because there was a concept of a plan about aiding non-allies.

Hegseth, Patel and Noem vow to investigate “just as soon as they are out of hair and makeup”.

Martin68

(26,802 posts)
20. Trump disdains ALL foreigners, not just elites. He hates the elites because they see right through his cheap-ass bluff.
Sun Dec 7, 2025, 05:19 PM
Sunday

Xolodno

(7,273 posts)
21. So one Macron's predictions comes to fruition again.
Sun Dec 7, 2025, 06:03 PM
Sunday

He's been on the record that Europe will have to create an EU Army at some point. In other words, he knew the USA would not be the powerful ally it once was.

Problem is, it's going to take awhile to coordinate and come up with a comprehensive plan. Who produces what? Where? What is the strategy?, etc.

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