Group suing to block Christo's "Over the River"

[Demonaut]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19867661?source=rss

DENVER—Opponents of the artist Christo's plan to suspend giant fabric panels over parts of the scenic Arkansas River are filing a lawsuit in federal court to try to block it.

Honestly, I love art but I think this is a bit much

[hlthe2b]

1. Frivolous and a bit unseemly to use this kind of $$

in this economic climate-- when so many are suffering. I can't help feeling that way...

[TheWraith]

2. I agree, not to mention kind of pointless. nt

[Nye Bevan]

5. Yep. The National Endowment for the Arts gets $150mm of our money each year.

There's a good case that this should be suspended in the current economic climate.

[EC]

8. Christo shouldn't be able to get any of the Endowment money

he's well established in his little world already and doesn't need a matching grant.

[GReedDiamond]

22. Christo funds these type of installations himself - no NEA $$$ -

...by selling other art which is created in the process of visualizing and designing the work -- kinda like the way storyboards are created to help a movie director structure scenes for a movie.

In any case, I would wait to see the environmental impact report for the project, in order to make a judgment on it.

ON EDIT: I followed the link to the Denver Post in the OP, and, at the end of the DP article, followed the link to the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), which stated:

"Through the application process, the BLM determined an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) would be required in order to proceed with the proposal due to the project complexity, controversial nature of the proposal, concerns regarding public safety, and the potential for significant impacts. The applicant also made a specific request for an EIS. An EIS is a document required by the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) for federal government agency actions "significantly affecting the quality of the human environment."

Is there an Environmental Impact Statement?

[XemaSab]

32. Here's a link to the EIS:

http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/fo/rgfo/planning/otr.html

Looks like the project is going through with mitigation for potential impacts to sheep, birds, and traffic. Unless, of course, this suit goes through. If the people who did the EIS did a decent job, the suit will probably go nowhere. NEPA isn't designed to stop projects, and after this much work it'll probably happen.

[GReedDiamond]

36. Thanks for the link, XemaSab...nt

[Chan790]

29. Disagree.

NEA funding mostly funds poorer artisans and tradespeople. It's one of the few direct stimulus programs we have and consistently one of the most effective. NEA funding creates jobs and economic growth. That's why republicans hate it. What's worse than taking tax dollars and giving them to not-their-constituents? Giving them to lefty artist types to create mostly lefty art critical of the GOP's constituents and who through their use stimulate the economy of their typically poorer working-class neighborhoods.

[hedgehog]

3. But it's art!

It's worth remembering that that's the argument that trumps those who would object to art aimed at deliberately religious groups.

[Archae]

4. Christo doesn't make "art."

He does asinine stunts (some that are actually deadly,) and stands on his self-appointed pedestal and calls it "art."

[hedgehog]

6. Being an asinine stunt doesn't preclude it being art!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

[Chan790]

30. I love Serrano's work.

I find it beautiful that he describes himself as religious and watching the RW fundies cringe because he's certainly not one of their kind.

[EC]

7. I agree

whole-heartedly with this. He gives artists a bad name. I've never liked any of his installments and none had any sort of statement other than saying natural beauty isn't enough, you need scrafs flying all over the place to make a statement.

[GReedDiamond]

26. Christo's art is, potentially, dangerous...

...if not, literally, lethal. This has already been quite positively established.

The dangers are: potential environmental impact, potential for bodily harm or even death, when coming into planned or unplanned contact with the "work," and, that Christo, in your words "gives artists a bad name."

Your interpretation of Christo's "installments" is fine as an opinion, but, unfortunately, not very well informed.

If I were to object to one of these Christo monolithic works, I would do so, not based on my lack of conceptual understanding/personal taste in art, but on the fact that one of these works, previously, has already proven to be lethal to two individuals.

[GliderGuider]

31. If two people had died in the building two dozen bridges (or cathedrals) over 40 years...

would you object to building bridges or cathedrals in the same way?

The over-prioritzation of utility and mass acceptability is an unfortunate side-effect of the industrialization of the human spirit over the last couple of hundred years.

We tend to cut things we see as "utilitarian" a whole lot more slack than "frivolous" activities like art. Even if it could (and has) been argued that on a dollar for dollar basis art is much more important than industry for the experience of being human.

You may not like Christo or his art but to argue its value on the basis you do seems difficult to justify.

[GReedDiamond]

35. I suppose I'm confusing things with my response to post #7...

...I actually do like Christo's work quite a bit, I was responding to the statement that Christo "gives artists a bad name."

And I was trying to suggest that if that's the case (which I do not think is true), maybe it has something to do with the unfortunate deaths of two people as a direct result of his umbrellas installation.

I'm a working artist and musician, so I do not consider art to be "frivolous."

I am also intrigued by the idea of "dangerous" art...such as, Chris Burden's work in the 70s.

[GliderGuider]

37. Cool. Thanks for clarifying, and my apologies for misreading you in the first place. n/t

[GReedDiamond]

38. No problem, I thought after I posted that reply...

...that it could have been better expressed.

If anybody gives artists a bad name, I would say it is Thomas Kincaide, the "painter of light" and purveyor of Kincaide gallery franchises, which often end up bankrupting the franchisee, and, for the purchaser of his "limited editions" - which are often numbered into the thousands - a depreciation in value from the price paid for the work.

[GliderGuider]

40. Oh sweet Jesus, Kinkade...

I hope there is a special circle of pastel Hell reserved for that man.

I'm married to a visionary artist, and she goes wordlessly apoplectic whenever his name is mentioned.

In case you or anyone else on this thread is interested in art there is a gallery of her work on a page at my web site: http://www.paulchefurka.ca/KFM/index.html

[GReedDiamond]

41. Thanks for the link, your wife's art looks fantastic...

...I will be back later tonight to have a thorough look at her work (I'm outta time right now).

[Bennyboy]

44. Great work

But no fish?

[Retrograde]

43. His installations have killed people

Tejon Pass, California, in 1991, one of the giant umbrellas came loose and crushed a woman.

[GReedDiamond]

46. Yeah, I know. That's why I wrote what I wrote...

...in the post you replied to. A worker on the project was also somehow killed.

In the incident you cite, where the woman killed, one of the umbrellas was uprooted by high winds, IIRC, which I can only attribute to inadequate engineering of the project, but that is speculation on my part.

I still generally support Christo's work, and, as I've stated elsewhere in this thread, I said I'd form my opinion on the project based on the environmental impact statement drawn up by Christo.

Well, it seems that the Bureau of Land Management has approved the project, back in August 2011, after reviewing the EIS and allowing a thirty day period of public comment. So, it looks like it'll happen.

http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/fo/rgfo/planning/otr/otr_record_of_decision.html

[CTyankee]

14. I kinda liked the wrapping of the Pont Neuf, tho.

And Parisians, who can be huffy with their beautiful landmarks, were OK with it (altho I expect there were some objectors). I don't remember if the Central Park Gates were terribly upsetting to New Yorkers (and New Yorkers argue about anything they can!).

[greiner3]

9. I disagree;

With the sentiment of the posters. I find Christo's art to be beautiful and inspiring. He uses the Buddhist thought of impermanence, in that nothing is permanent. His art is taken down almost immediately and there is little impact on the environment.

Why this attack on the NEA from DU'ers? Boy, times sure have changed!

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. Agreed

Good post.

[The Second Stone]

11. I agree too

Christo's art is temporary and beautiful. I didn't think he was still active.

[Warpy]

13. His installations have always been rare, ephemeral and magical

and Philistines have always sued to prevent every one of them. This really is nothing new.

Then the installations go up for a few days, people marvel at them, and then they're gone, leaving only memories and a few photographs.

The early posters in this thread really have no clue. They're acting as though he's putting up an oil refinery.

[mopinko]

20. +1,000,000

where am i?

[GermanDem]

42. Thank you! The wrapped Reichstag in Berlin

was beautiful. I was lucky to be able to see it in person during the few weeks it was up. It was quite controversial at the time, but most people who actually saw it in person and experienced it ended up liking it. It was completely financed by Christo himself, no public money ever goes into his projects.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Thanks for that.

Reading the first bunch of posts was depressing. Ive only seen one live Christo installation, the one he did in central park in new york, and it was quite beautiful.

[EFerrari]

27. Agreed. With so much ugly in the world

his installations are a place to rest from it all for moment.

[prismpalette]

12. r you over the edge????

Being a professional artist, I can actually reply to this with a lifetime of experience behind me. One of art's primary goals is to allow you to think, remember, feel, smile, frown-all the range of human emotions. Life is art, everything used each day was designed by an artist at some point. If you take what you see as art out of our lives they will become 2 dimensional at best.
I can think of a thousand things I would prefer my tax dollars to not be spent on-war, subsidies, bailouts, congressional healthcare on ad infinitum; but art is not one of them.
For those posters who espouse a love of art-embrace it all, you can't just pick and chose what you like or understand as your neighbor may enjoy what you reject. Just like liberalism, art is a huge umbrella, don't chip away at it with your own prejudices.

[CTyankee]

15. One has to suspect the Arkansas project is viewed by some residents as part of the evil

"european socialism."

[Demonaut]

16. I'm not looking at this solely from the "art" perpective but the enviromental issue

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/26/us/26artist.html

I know that many issues about environmental damage have been mitigated but it's very controversial here in CO


btw, what edge?

[GliderGuider]

19. Environmental damage? It's going to be up for two weeks.

Anti-art agendas blow my mind. Of all the things human beings do on this planet, art has to be our single most ennobling activity, and has been for over 100,000 years.

We happily pave over hundreds of miles of prime farmland and natural habitat with asphalt in perpetuity so people can shave 5 minutes off their morning commutes, chop down forests to build subdivisions, but we object to this because of it's environmental impact???

Two weeks. Fabric panels going up for two bloody weeks make people cough up blood and bile. Is it because Art has lost its meaning and purpose? Is it because it has no utilitarian value?

What has happened to our souls?

[Demonaut]

21. two years to construct...read both articles

"The project, financed by Christo through sales of lithographs and other pieces, would take two years to build and would be displayed for two weeks in the summer of 2014 at the earliest"

[GliderGuider]

23. In two years they can also build 30 miles of 4-lane superhighway that never ever goes away.

I know which has a higher "environmental impact".

This whole "protest" looks like a right-wing anti-art project.

[XemaSab]

33. I think Christo's a douche and I am a huge treehugger

and unless there's something I'm missing here, I don't see what the fuss is about.

[GliderGuider]

34. I've noticed over the years that most artists who become famous are huge douches.

Any artist who can market themselves is automatically suspect in that department AFAIC. Something about being MBTI "extrovert" types when art is intrinsically a calling for "introverts".

That's no an iron-clad rule or anything, but something I've noticed ever since I married an artist 40 years ago.

And yea, this is a tempest in a teapot.

[pinto]

17. from Christo on 'Over the River' piece -

Disclaimer - I like his stuff. ~ pinto

"Over The River is a temporary work of art by the artists Christo and Jeanne-Claude. Christo plans to suspend 5.9 miles of silvery, luminous fabric panels high above the Arkansas River along a 42-mile stretch of the river between Salida and Cañon City in south-central Colorado.

Christo is currently working to obtain the necessary permits so that his team can begin the installation process. He is hoping to exhibit Over The River for two consecutive weeks in August, 2014 at the earliest."



http://www.overtheriverinfo.com/

Christo homepage -

http://www.christojeanneclaude.net/

[Archae]

47. That is ugly!

"Art?" Bullshit.

Besides, how can anyone go fishing under those drapes?

[pinto]

48. The eye of the beholder, as always. Not his best piece, but I like it.

Appreciate how he and his wife highlight big venues to make what are basically transient pieces of art. A lot of it is conceptual. It's not the 'Mona Lisa', an icon hung in a gallery. Both have their own value, though.

And, I assume the Arkansas River will be fine.

[GliderGuider]

24. ROAR Backfires; Christo Supported

http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2011/11/23/north/roar-backfires-christo-supported.html

“Bighorn Sheep Canyon” is a relatively recent (about 25 years ago) appellation for the canyon between Salida and the Royal Gorge. The canyon has a thriving imported bighorn herd. Or it used to. The bighorns seem to have moved elsewhere.

Then there’s the talk of preserving the “pristine” canyon, even though it sports a highway, railroad and lots of old mines, quarries and kilns along with modern power lines, roadside stands and subdivisions. Trying to preserve this commercial corridor as a “natural” canyon is sort of like trying to preserve Lindsay Lohan’s virtue.

Then there are those who care for the canyon by saying “No” to Christo while living in its midst and every day driving 75 miles through it to go to work and back home.

Add this up, and it’s easy to see how Christo’s opponents make some of us converts: We used to be dubious about “Over the River,” but now we’re supporters.

[GliderGuider]

25. I think the protest is racist. They just hate wrappers...

Wait, what?

[wordpix]

45. BLM approves everything---mining, clearcutting, fracking...

This project is NOTHING compared to the shit BLM regularly approves without blinking an eye.

Still, IMO Christo should erect homes for the poor instead of another absurdity produced as "art."