(Arizona Gov.) Brewer vetoes bill making gold legal tender

[Newsjock]

Source: Arizona Republic

Those gold and silver coins will have to stay hidden in the closet and locked in safety-deposit boxes for a bit longer.

Gov. Jan Brewer on Thursday vetoed a bill that would have made gold and silver coins legal tender in Arizona.

“While I believe the concern over a devalued dollar as a result of an unsustainable federal deficit is justified, I am unable to support this legislation,” Brewer wrote in her veto letter. “The provisions in this legislation need to be more carefully examined.”

Specifically, she wrote, it is unclear whether the legislation would provide income-tax exemptions to transactions involving gold and silver coins, giving certain businesses “an unfair tax advantage.”


Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/free/20130502brewer-vetoes-bill-making-gold-legal-tender.html

[DissidentVoice]

1. She'll be on Glenn Crybaby Beck's shit list n/t

[Gman]

2. Sounds like lobbyists for Gold Line trying to drive the price up

Gotta take care of the rich people's investments. Gotta get them suckers to buy more gold.

OTOH, Brewer's nuts but not not as nuts as she would have some believe.

[former9thward]

8. The value of gold is determined by a world wide market.

What happens in AZ would have zero effect on that market. I am curious why you think someone is a "sucker" if they buy gold. It has gone up in value for 12 straight years. No other asset is even close.

[Gman]

9. Of course Arizona alone can't drive up the price

Last edited Fri May 3, 2013, 05:51 PM - Edit history (1)

But so you think teabagger representatives thought this up all by themselves? They're not that smart. Now if many states, say those that are GOP controlled all fo this, then the price gets a lot of support and probably help to drive the cost up.

The whole issue is moot because its unconstitutional anyway and Brewer did the right thing.

Gold is seriously overpriced right now and it's the hucksters preying on suckers that 's started a survivalist attitude in those of lower investment skills. Commodities have never been known as growth investments. Especially precious metals. They are safe haven type investments.

[Kelvin Mace]

13. Gold is a bad long term investment investment

Here is the price of gold from 1960-2012



Gold has yet to reach the inflation adjusted value it had in 1980. Unless you were very lucky to buy and sell in the narrow windows of opportunity, you pretty much got little for your investment, or more likely, you lost your shirt.

Compare this to the Dow-Jones



The Dow was at $585.00 in 1960. Adjusted for inflation that would $4,473 in 2012 dollars. The Dow closed at $13,104.00 on 12/31/12.

So, if you bought an ounce of gold in 1960, it would have cost you $267.00 in 2012 dollars, and would have been worth $1,690.00 on 12/31/12, a 532% return. The same $267.00 invested in the Dow would have yielded $13,104.00, a 4,807% return.

So, yeah, gold is not a good investment.

[former9thward]

14. What other asset has gone up the last 12 years?

I know of none. If you think the value of the dollar will go up don't buy gold. If you think that the value will go down then buy it. Gold is simply a measure of the value of the dollar.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. No, it is anything but "a measure of the value of the dollar"

It varies wildly not only against the dollar, but also against other currencies, and against commodities. It's more volatile than most major currencies, and certainly more volatile than the dollar.

[Paulie]

16. Stocks?

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=my&s=SPY&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=GLD%2CTLT%2C+aapl%2C+goog&ql=1&c=%5EGSPC&c=%5EDJI

I got my AAPL at 24... and it's quite a bit lighter to carry around.

[former9thward]

17. Stocks have not gone up the last 12 years straight.

Dow lost money in 2003 and 2008. Of course individual stocks are all over the place.

[Paulie]

18. Well gold is on a glide path for a landing too.

Past performance is not indicative of future results. If you don't take your profits is all vapor anyways.

[former9thward]

19. It all depends on what you think the dollar will do.

If you think the dollar will continue to weaken, and I do, then buying commodies priced in dollars such as gold is bound to go up. Gold is a reserve currency. I agree about taking profits. Maintain a 10% trailing stop and sell out if it goes past the stop.

[Kelvin Mace]

20. You cherry picked a window that makes gold look good

I chose a 52 year spread and showed you that while stocks have improved consistently over that period of time, including multiple recessions and crashes, gold has NEVER exceeded its best inflation adjusted price in 1980 of around $2,500. In fact, it is about now $800+ off its best price.

If I had gone back further, say 100 years, gold would have done even worse. If I had cherry picked a 12 year window from 1980 to 1992, I would have shown that anyone who invested in gold walked away with a fraction of their investment, while making out handsomely on the stock market, despite two big recession and the crash of '87.

Gold is a BAD LONG term investment. History backs me up. Companies peddling gold talk up fear of the dollar crashing, but still require you to PAY in dollars to buy gold. Seems that even THEY don't believe their own history.

Yes, SOME people make money on gold, but the overwhelming majority do not.

But, I can play the game. What asset went up in the last 12 years?

Google
Amazon.com
Apple
Exxon

And dozens of others.

[former9thward]

21. The last 12 years is cherry picking?

Most people would call that recent history. Have the stocks you put in your post been always worth more on Dec 31st than they were on the pervious Jan. 1st for the last 12 years? The answer is no and yes you accurately describe yourself as playing a game. Don't like gold then don't buy it. I don't buy anything from companies. Commissions too high. I buy exchange funds like GLD. The trading fee compared to the cost is near zero as a percentage.

If you don't think the dollar has and is crashing please stay away from any internet sites which allow you to compute the value of a dollar in 2013 compared with any other year. You will have a heart attack.

[Kelvin Mace]

22. It is cherry picking when looking at the broader picture

disproves your thesis. You picked the 12 years, I picked the last 53.

"Recent history" is just that, "recent". I am quite aware of the dollars value relative to the past, something that should be obvious since my argument involved using inflation adjusted dollars to price stocks indices and gold.

Gold produces no income stream; no dividends, no interest payments, no rent, nada. It has an industrial use, but beyond that it is just a fetish metal thats rarity in the past made it a medium of exchange. If there is, in fact, an "economic meltdown", then copper-jacked lead and food will be the currency of the day, not gold or any other "precious" metal.

Gold bugs can never be convinced gold is a bad investment until they are wiped out. I wish you luck with your investments, you'll need it. Gold's bubble price today is looking very much like it did in 1980.

[TruBluPhx]

10. Brewer seems sane compared to our legislature

Every time the Arizona State Legislature passes a new bill, an angel gets stabbed in the heart.

[Gman]

11. LOL!

I'll save that to use here in Texas.

[jmowreader]

3. The law would have been as unconstitutional as Phil Hart's Idaho silver coins bill

Idaho representative Phil Hart (I've talked about him before; he's the tax evader who stole logs out of a state forest to build his house...fortunately, he lost the primary and the IRS is fixin' to foreclose on his house to settle his tax bill) tried to get a bill allowing coins minted in Idaho from Idaho silver (we are one of the biggest producers of it) to be used as legal tender in Idaho. Phil's bills always pointed out that the Powers Prohibited to States clause of the constitution forbids states from making anything but gold and silver coin legal tender, but never mentioned the fact that the same paragraph also says states are forbidden from coining their own money.

Regardless of any economic drawbacks to establishing a state-level currency, the fact remains it's unconstitutional to do it.

[left is right]

4. How would the average person be able

to tell the true value of gold or silver? Would we be able to tell if it was pure or filled with a base metal? Would we have to carry a scale around? I do’t get this push for gold or silver as currency

[greiner3]

5. US currency is backed by;

The faith the US government backs every bill in circulation.

It is free to print more as deemed necessary for the stability and continued growth of the US.

ALL precious metals are finite.

With these metals tied to how much the US can print, those holding the silver and gold can actually dictate how much these metals are worth.

The Hunt brothers tried to corner the market on silver in the 80s and I can't remember who but someone tried to corner the gold market in the 1880s.

Scary stuff!

[MrScorpio]

6. At least they didn't try to corner the market on frozen concentrated orange juice

Last edited Fri May 3, 2013, 06:30 PM - Edit history (1)

The bottom of the ocean is littered with the bones of FCOJ's victims.

[Thor_MN]

12. Looking good, Louis!!!

[Mosby]

7. the bill talked about us gold and silver coins

Anything produced by the us mint has exact specs, size, weight, content etc.

[FSogol]

23. Translation: You goldbugs are nuttier than a shit house rat, but I still want your support.