Careful with those drinks; tougher standard for drivers may be on way

[alp227]

Source: CNN

A decade-old benchmark for determining when a driver is legally intoxicated -- the 0.08 blood-alcohol content rate -- should be lowered to 0.05, reducing the amount a motorist can imbibe before being presumed to be drunk, federal safety officials said Tuesday.

At a meeting in Washington, the National Transportation Safety Board is recommending that all 50 states lower the threshold to reduce the nation's drunk driving death toll, which has plateaued at about 10,000 deaths a year. A vote on the recommendation is expected to take place at 11:30 a.m.

Lowering the rate to 0.05 would save about 500 to 800 lives every year, NTSB staff members said, and is a crucial part of the board's attempt to eliminate drunken driving in the United States.

Under current law, a 180-pound male typically will hit the 0.08 threshold after drinking four drinks in an hour, according to an online blood alcohol calculator published by the University of Oklahoma.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/us/ntsb-blood-alcohol/index.html

[Common Sense Party]

1. Here's an idea: If you're going to drink ANY alcohol, don't even think about driving. Period.

Isn't that simpler? Smarter? Safer?

[Exultant Democracy]

2. So if I want a glass of wine with dinner I need a taxi home? Seems like overkill

Then again I am 180 pounds and if I slammed four drinks in an hour there is no way I would want to drive.

[Common Sense Party]

4. I think so. Because the most common response when people are pulled over for DUI is:

"But I only had one glass of wine with dinner!" or: "I only had two beers!"

But then they forgot that they ordered another glass, and then maybe they lost track of what they consumed.

I say play it safe. If you're going to have some wine, get a taxi or have someone drive you, and then enjoy the evening--and let other pople on the road enjoy theirs.

[liberal N proud]

14. The one glas or two beers is what any drunk will say

Alcohol tends to blur the abilty to count.

I tend to keep it to one drink or beer when I have to drive. It also depends on if I am eating with that drink.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. As a former medic, have a designated driver

That has coffee or soda only.

[Bo]

63. Liquor Lobby will never let this pass...dream on

another way for the crooks on K street to milk clients.....

[BainsBane]

3. That's my approach

[Common Sense Party]

6. It makes more sense.

[skeewee08]

13. Agree

Especially if you lost a loved one, the person that hit my sister-in-law said she only had one drink.

[RebelOne]

23. I had 2 people in my family killed by drunk drivers.

My step-father and my daughter's husband. And the drivers were stinking drunk.

[happyslug]

7. That is the rule I follow, and I have NEVER been picked up for DUI

In Collage I ran across an Attorney who was trying to help her client get a Driver's License. The problem was he had been convicted of DUI, while riding his bicycle. A Bicycle is a "Vehicle" under the DUI laws and thus was valid. The problem was he had paid his fine, served his sentence, but never turned in his driver's license for he had none at the time of the conviction (and he did not need a license to ride his bicycle, his only means of transportation at the time of the DUI incident).

Under Pennsylvania law (and I suspect the law in most other states) suspension of driving privileges starts upon conviction, but the time for the suspension only starts to run once a driver turn over his license to Penndot. Since the client had no license to turn in, how can he turn it in and start the running of the suspension?

Penndot wanted him to turn in his license and wait for the suspension period to run, this was to be done before he could even apply for a permit to learn to drive. Think about it, he had to turn in his license six to nine months before he even had one.

Hopefully the Courts saw the stupidity of the above and permitted him to get a learner's permit, but if you operate ANY vehicle, even a bicycle, do not drink.

[former9thward]

21. That is not the law in my state.

Anything human powered is exempt from DUIs.

[Jenoch]

34. I think I remember

someone getting a DUI while riding a horse in Minnesota. I rememer a guy just a few years ago got a DUI in Duluth for driving a motorized La-Z-Boy®.

[former9thward]

38. Yes, they could get a DUI in my state (AZ).

They are not human powered. A person in a rowboat can't get a DUI. I person in a power boat can.

[kestrel91316]

10. That's absurd in the extreme. There is no reason why normal people can't have

a glass of wine with dinner and then drive.

If it's that easy to make you a dangerous driver, you probably shouldn't be driving at all. Ever.

[Common Sense Party]

15. Yes, but too many "normal" people think they're just having A glass of wine, and wind up

having TWO glasses, or was it THREE?

Why not make it safer for everyone and let someone else drive?

[kestrel91316]

17. You can have 2 or 3 or however many as long as you spread them out over a period of however many

hours it takes to metabolize the alcohol.

[Common Sense Party]

20. Playing with fire...

You're right: If you are very careful and cautious and responsible about your intake, no problem.

The number of DUI's in this country shows that far too many people are NOT careful, cautious and responsible.

I am not saying it should be illegal to have one drink and then get behind the wheel. I'm saying those who wish to imbibe should voluntarily choose NOT to drive. They and everyone else will be much safer.

[Blue_Tires]

30. Isn't that too dependent on weight/body size/gender/etc.?

There's no one-size-fits-all rule for it...

[man4allcats]

25. I've found the ideal solution is to simply move around the corner from the bar.

That way you don't have to drive home. You can simply walk over there and stumble home. Works for me anyway.

[MountainMama]

51. I hate to say it...

I hate to say it, but I honestly think that's where this country is going. I think within the next 20-30 years, any alcohol in the blood will result in DUI. I don't like it, but it seems to be moving in that direction.

[Yo_Mama]

57. I think that's dumb

I'm not a drinker, so it is probably the right advice for me. I probably wouldn't feel safe driving after one glass of wine without eating first. However, obviously it is not a problem for me since I don't normally drink.

I don't think it is simpler, smarter or safer. I think it is a remarkably inane piece of prudery similar to saying women should cover up and not drive because their pretty little heads can't handle it aka the Saudis.

The real problem you are getting at is people who WON'T have one drink of alcohol -if they have one, they tend to have four or five. For those people, it's probably a good rule. For everyone else, it is ridiculous. In this country we do not make criminals of persons because of other persons' misdeeds, and I think we should continue in that mode.

Drinking some, esp. wine, is supposed to be healthy. Certainly a glass of wine doesn't impair most people's ability to drive, unless they were staggering around with fatigue before they had the drink.

A couple of drinks in an hour will already get many people close to 0.08, so I think that's a safe limit and it should not be changed. The current problem with drunk driving deaths are boozers who are not worrying about the law. Changing the law won't change that.

[Nihil]

62. Agreed ...

> The current problem with drunk driving deaths are boozers who are not worrying about the law.
> Changing the law won't change that.

My standard response to anyone suggesting reducing the limit from its current value (0.08)
is to demand that the police enforce the existing laws properly FIRST.

We have a traditional Christmas crack-down on drunk drivers but I think the roads would be
far safer if this annual increase in activity was repeated throughout the year - not continuously
(as it would become a waste of police time & money) but frequently.

I have no problem with submitting to a random breath-test under those circumstances
as it reinforces the reason that I don't drive home from a "good night out" - walk, taxi, share
lifts or whatever, just don't drive if I'm having more than a single decent beer.

Hell, just require random testing immediately outside the car parks of establishments that
sell alcohol (pubs, clubs, restaurants, whatever) and enforce the results. That will make more
of a difference to road safety in one simple straightforward action than the current quibbling
about reducing the legal limit without damn well enforcing it ...

If anyone in the "zero tolerance" camp cares to comment, I'd appreciate some supporting
evidence to show what proportion of the deaths/injuries caused by "drunk driving" was done
by people with a BAC within 10% of the current limit (i.e., rather than several times over it)
and who had no other incapacitating drug/condition involved (e.g., one glass of wine before
having a heart attack behind the wheel doesn't cut it ...).

Anecdotal evidence (from local & national media as well as police acquaintances) suggests
that DD fatal accidents are primarily due to people who were completely hammered rather
than just having traces of alcohol in their blood.

[villager]

5. probably more about court revenue enhancement than saving lives....

Last edited Tue May 14, 2013, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

The prison/industrial complex has to keep itself funded....

[Mojorabbit]

16. Bingo nt

[truebrit71]

47. WINNER!!!!!

A DUI can cost you upwards of $10k in Illinois....easy money...

[TheMightyFavog]

8. Would never happen in Wisconsin unless the Feds threaten highway funds.

The Tavern League fought .08 to the bitter end.

[Blue_Tires]

31. I was about to bring up Wisconsin

when Yovani Gallardo blew a .22 and only had to pay a fine(!)

[TheMightyFavog]

52. Yeah. Tavern League's doing.

DUI laws in my state are plain dumb.

[OnyxCollie]

9. .05 blood alcohol for someone weighing about 160 lbs.

is one drink.

[HockeyMom]

12. Since I'm 100 lbs.

I should be falling down drunk from one glass of wine. If you go out to dinner, have a full meal, and one glass of wine over an hour or so?

My husband usually drives anyway. He is over 200 lbs so I suppose even 2 drinks wouldn't put him over the limit.

[Yo_Mama]

58. Or 140 pounds, definitely

That is the stupidest suggestion I have ever heard.

Alcoholics shouldn't start drinking if they are going to be driving later. We can all agree with that, but the current law takes care of that. Everyone else is not going to be impaired from a drink.

[politicaljunkie41910]

11. Most European countries, including those known for their drinking

have for decades had a zero tolerance law for drinking and driving. Our laws requires the person drinking to make a calculation as to whether they are capable of successfully navigating a motor vehicle after having a few brews. Our friends overseas say the answer is "NO", and their society condemns the practice. While we have made some headway with the concept of the 'designated' driver with nominal success, perhaps a nationwide zero tolerance policy ingrained in our culture would be better, long term. It's not like we have a constitutional right to drink and drive, like gun owner's do to own and bear arms which is sacrosanct, so it could be doable.

[maxsolomon]

56. Link?

Europe is not built to force everyone to drive to get anywhere.

[Xithras]

60. That's absolutely untrue. Europe does not practice zero tolerance with alcohol.

Legal BAC levels, by country:

.08% – United Kingdon, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta
.05% - Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany (.03% if you're in a crash), Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Serbia/Montenegro, Croatia, Latvia, Macedonia, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, North Cyprus, Switzerland
.04% - Lithuania
.03% - Serbia
.02% - Estonia, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Norway, Poland, Sweden, South Cyprus

The only nations in Europe with a 0.0% BAC limit are Turkey, Russia, Romania, and Hungary.

The Czech Republic is an odd one. Technically their limit is 0.0%, but it's not actually a crime until you hit 0.08%. Lower than that and they just write you a ticket and make you walk home.

Personally, I'd be fine with a hybrid of the systems in Germany and the Czech Republic. If you're pulled over and found to be driving with a BAC over 0.08% you get arrested. If you're in an accident with a BAC over 0.03%-0.05% you can be arrested. If you're driving poorly with ANY BAC, you get a ticket and get to walk home. But if a cop pulls you over for having a taillight out and you happened to have a glass of wine with dinner? No problem.

[riderinthestorm]

61. Interestingly, for the top countries you listed many of them believe 2-5 glasses of alcohol

per day is "moderate" drinking, not alcoholic levels....

"The French consider three drinks for women, and 4.5 for men to be moderate. In the Netherlands, both genders get 2.75 drinks per day. The UK is slightly higher than the United States, letting women drink 1.75 drinks per day, and men 2.75 before they’re considered over-moderate."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/03/22/can-you-be-a-healthy-drinker.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Do not drink and drive

Not even a beer or glass of wine with dinner.

I know it sounds extreme, but as a former medic I can definitely get behind this.

[Nye Bevan]

29. Why not go one step further? Never eat in a restaurant if you have to drive there.

Only ever eat at home. Then even more lives will be saved.

[tXr]

67. Or why not take the ultimate step and never have children?

Remember, the safest option is non-existence!

Won't someone think of the children?

[Common Sense Party]

22. I have a concealed carry permit. How many drinks can I have and still tote around a weapon?

I say zero.

(Yes, I know that a gun is not the same thing as a car. But both can be dangerous to people around you, especially if you don't have FULL control of your faculties.)

[Jenoch]

37. I am sure your state has a threshold in the CCW law.

[Common Sense Party]

42. Yeah, it probably does.

I'm saying, though, that regardless of what the law says, common sense may dictate a bit more prudence. I don't think anyone should be carrying a loaded weapon after consuming ANY alcohol. Legally, yes, they probably can. Morally, though, that's a dumb move.

[Jenoch]

43. I Agree.

[former9thward]

24. They will kill off the restaurant/bar industry.

Alcohol is where the bills are paid in the restaurant business. Ask any owner. DUI accidents that kill are not caused by drivers in the 0.05 to 0.08 range. Ask any cop. These federal officials will still be collecting their paychecks and snickering at the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of servers, cooks and attendants in the unemployment lines. Any legislator who votes for this should be targeted as a job killer.

[Nye Bevan]

28. +1 nt

[Jenoch]

39. You are correct.

There needs to be more effort to do something about the behavior of the people who are driving in the .10 and above range and less "you could get a dui with just one drink'.

[Xithras]

59. It would absolutely reduce the amount I eat out, and the size of the tips I leave.

I have a glass of wine with dinner nearly every day, and it's a standard part of the fare when I dine out. Not having it would make the meal less pleasant and would unquestionably reduce the amount of dining out I do.

And, on top of that, tips are based on the amount of the ticket, and alcohol is usually among the most expensive items on any menu. Not having a glass of wine with dinner (usually more than one, since my wife will have one as well) reduces the overall cost of the dinner, which in turn reduces the size of the tip. It takes money from the pockets of the working poor.

I'd consider any politician who supported this to be too reactionary and unintelligent to hold office.

[AngryAmish]

26. Fuck that.

[Nye Bevan]

27. One or two beers do not impair my driving in any way.

I enjoy a craft beer or two with dinner in a restaurant. The bluenoses and temperance advocates are starting to get annoying.

[RitchieRich]

32. Irony: Very old people pushing for heavy enforcement, but not for driver's tests.

When I lived in Florida, I would commute to Ft. Lauderdale or Miami pretty much every weekend to go out dancing. I would regularly see bad driving associated with intoxication. Back in Delray Beach, with a far greater frequency, I would see old people crashing their cars like it was the new fashionable dance move.
The same old people who filled their leisure time advocating for heavy penalties for DUI pushed just as hard against their having to pass regular basic driving skills tests.

[Nye Bevan]

50. Especially when they are trying to make it in time for the 4PM "early bird" dinner (nt)

[ProgressiveJarhead]

33. Serious Issue, But

When I (safely and cautiously ride my Harley daily). The biggest danger is people driving while talking or texting on their cell phones. Hands free devices are inexpensive, but don't seem to catch on with people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. I need one...to be honest

Until I get it, and even then, I do not talk and drive

[Nye Bevan]

41. Even a hands-free device is distracting. Just never talk on the phone, ever,

hands-free or not, while driving your car. Leave the radio off, and don't eat or drink. And if you have had less than 8 full hours sleep, take a taxi instead.

[Jenoch]

40. I have read that drivers texting while driving

are more dangerous and distracted than most drunk drivers.

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. I wonder what percentage of adult males do in fact occasionally drive while over the legal threshold

[Common Sense Party]

44. Why only males?

Don't females also drink and drive?

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. I'm sure a fear number do. But males tend to rank a lot higher on such things

[Psephos]

46. Temperance movements sure pull our moral superiors out of the woodwork.

It's not about safety at this point. It's about control.

[Nye Bevan]

49. And you know that if they get to 0.05 they will start shooting for 0.03. (nt)

[Zoeisright]

54. I see.

And the 10,228 people killed in drink driving crashes in 2010 are ... collateral? Something alcohol companies consider part of doing business?

Control? Fuck that. It's about life and death. Grow up.

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

[Bay Boy]

48. I'm a better driver when I've been drinking...

Did I get your attention?

In a way I really am, because if I've had a couple beers and am driving home I'm very careful to set my cruise control under the speed limit. Without a beer I don't pay too much attention to the speed limit.

[Evergreen Emerald]

64. It is more than simply an issue of speed

It is the ability to handle the complex multi-tasking. Driving also includes being aware of your surroundings steering, staying in the lane, signalling, stopping at the stop sign or red light, avoid hitting the tree and the car beside

[markiv]

53. I think device distraction is a higher priority

as well as stop light/stop sign running

but i know better than to criticize the toughening of DUI laws, because as everyone knows 'that automatically makes you pro drunk driver'

so i really dont care

but i will say, if this passes, you can forget 'clocking and counting' alcohol consumption against bac charts, which is something i do in the rare occasion i drive after drinking anything at all

at .05, with the possibility BAC machine test errors that go against the suspect, there's really no safe level - any alcohol at all and you're at risk of DUI

[maxsolomon]

55. Why .05? Why not .04? .02? .001?

Why not pass a constitutional amendment banning alcohol? The NTSB's 500 to 800 lives is a theoretical estimate. And it's 2.5% of our yearly firearm deaths. There aren't enough cops in America to enforce this or enough jails to hold the violators.

This nation is built so that vehicle use is nearly required - while Europe is not. Adding a $25 taxi ride on each end of a night out that includes 1 or 2 (or 3 or 4) drinks spread out over the evening is prohibitively expensive.

While we're at it, we could lower the speed limit on all roads to 25. How about installing ignition interlock devices on all vehicles instead? I'm sure the GOP would spring for that government expenditure, right?

[flamingdem]

65. .. but feel free to fill up on prescription meds!

[Dash87]

66. They want more money in fines. lol