FEMA Plans Clear-Cutting 85,000 Berkeley and Oakland Trees

[thatsrightimirish]

Source: California Progress Report

"The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is moving to chop down 22,000 trees in Berkeley's historic Strawberry and Claremont Canyons and over 60,000 more in Oakland. This destructive plan is rapidly moving forward with little publicity, and FEMA cleverly scheduled its three public meetings for mid and late May while UC Berkeley students were in finals or gone for the summer.

UC Berkeley has applied for the grant to destroy the bucolic Strawberry and Claremont Canyon areas, claiming that the trees pose a fire hazard. The school has no plans to replant, and instead will cover 20% of the area in wood chips two feet deep. And it will pour between 700 and 1400 gallons of herbicide to prevent re-sprouting, including the highly toxic herbicide, Roundup. People are mobilizing against this outrageous proposal, which UC Berkeley has done its best to keep secret."

Read more: http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/fema-plans-clear-cutting-85000-berkeley-and-oakland-trees

[SunSeeker]

1. This is insane. If fire is their worry, the 2' of woodchips will be an even worse threat.

[truedelphi]

8. And note tht they don't mention doing this during the early part of the summer, when fledgling

birds still need their nests. This is beyond contempt!

[OmahaBlueDog]

2. I bet Cal wishes they had done this before Zachary Running Wolf delayed the SAHPC project

It would have saved a lot of time.

[byeya]

3. WTF. I am ignorant of any details but this sounds like one of the worst ideas yet.

[enough]

4. It appears from the link that this is some kind of combination of

supposed fire-suppression and removal of non-native species with hope of long-term reversion to native plant communities (without actual re-planting).

It all sounds so crazy is so many ways, it took me a few minutes to believe it's real. But apparently it is.

[truedelphi]

7. I hae particpated in citizen protests against some of the

Government's "non native species" requests to do in dozens if not hundreds of trees. Back when eucalyptus tress were threatened in West Marin Calif.


In reading over one EIS, the paper blithely stated that the baby birds and other critters depending on the trees would simply locate to other trees. Note how these activities are done in the early part of the year, when there can be flegling owls etc.

In one case, the trees were the only trees for about six or seven miles. How is a fledling bird going to move from its nest to a tree down the road? Call up its llmo driver?

[snooper2]

13. They can find a tire...

Watch this from YouTuber I follow

[upaloopa]

5. Time for some 60's style sit-ins and student riots

Come on millennials let's get tough it's not like the school doesn't have a history of ignoring student demands.

[bluedigger]

6. Sounds like it's UC Berkeley's idea.

FEMA is just helping fund it.

[City Lights]

9. W. T. F.

[warrior1]

10. sad but read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_firestorm_of_1991

[freshwest]

16. Wow! I only saw news of this, not how bad it was. But clear-cutting, woodchips and herbicide...

There has to be a better way. That pollutes the water, and I don't think it's that effective in the long run.

And it does seem to be at the behest of the school. FEMA's name is being tossed in just to get the ingnorant riled up.

[former9thward]

45. FEMA is funding it.

They own it. They are not some innocent bystander looking in.

[OmahaBlueDog]

50. The Eucalyptus trees are the big problem

They are non-native and (arguably) invasive. In the '91 fires, the trees literally exploded, and were a big part of fueling the fire.

If the request is at the behest of Cal, I'd point out that they have one of the nation's premier Forestry schools, and would not make such a decision lightly.

.. and I apologize if my remark upthread offended you. The reference was to protests of the removal of a small grove of man-planted live oak to accomodate the building of an athletic center. a) I'm a smartass, b) I bleed Blue & Gold and I want a Rose Bowl before I die.

[pansypoo53219]

11. sounds like a corpse of engineers plan. stupid.

[silvershadow]

12. Fire prevention huh? Two feet of wood chips. Yeah. That should do the trick.

[NickB79]

24. It's called mulch

A pile of wood chips 2 ft thick will be cool and moist a few inches into it as it retains water from rainfall, making it VERY difficult to burn. It's not like they're throwing piles of brush around the place.

[silvershadow]

38. Yeah, mea culpa. I was just trying to be funny. (Kind of a habit). I should have tagged sarcasm.

[rwsanders]

14. I read a study that said before the redwoods were clear cut, the area was very different...

In that it had plenty of water and fires were probably rare as the redwoods trapped and held a lot of moisture.

[railsback]

15. More hair on fire news without research

No one seems to remember the massive Oakland Hills fire, when the non-native eucalyptus trees torched 4000 residences and killed 25 people. The city of Oakland, East Bay Regional Park District, East Bay Municipal Utility District, and the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection are also part of this move.

There's been nothing secret about this battle, which has been going on since 2005. The main argument against reducing this massive fire hazard is that the trees 'are pretty'. Well, whoop-de-fucking-do. This isn't some land grab, where they're going to construct parking lots and office buildings. They'll make it nice and aesthetically pleasing.

[RobertEarl]

17. Is this a clear cut in a populated area?

What tree community is this area composed of?

Look forward to your science basis of supporting what seems to be a dumb idea.

[maxsolomon]

19. Fire hazard is serious business in this area.

Here's the FEMA EIS: http://ebheis.cdmims.com/Documents.aspx

The poster you reply to is probably correct. Eucalyptus go up like torches. It's bone dry there much of the year.

I have relatives in Napa and they have very strict rules about yard maintenance and fire hazards. The gubmint comes on your property and enforces, them, too. They had to take out a giant oak that wild turkeys roosted in.

Wood chips won't burn like dry undergrowth. Not enough oxygen.

[railsback]

22. Refer to maxsolomon's post.

[RobertEarl]

23. So, you don't know anything?

And you think I'm going to read an EIS?

Sounds like the 'Hair on Fire' are the three of you: FEMA included.

I am in favor of planetary restoration. Most government agencies can hardly even spell restoration. And then yall come along and say: Hell yeah, cut it down!

But if that is all you know, then that is all you can say, right?

[railsback]

25. Oh, so your hair is on fire.

So, you're calling Mother Nature a complete dumbass, eh? Go figure. And I'm sure when some dumbass dropped pike into Lake Davis and they killed off all the trout, so we ended up poisoning the entire lake to get rid of them, you were screaming 'bloody murder!', right?

Eucalyptus trees do NOT belong here. They are fire bombs waiting to go off. We in the Bay Area saw that first hand and it was really horrific. Nature knows what its doing. Its been doing it for over a billion years.

[RobertEarl]

26. No

Can't you read? I said I am in favor of planetary restoration. There seems to be no restoration plan of which you know anything about, so it seems you know nothing.

I asked you pretty simple questions... you did not answer with any science backed observations. And then you spit fire. That's weird.

[railsback]

30. You need to kill the weeds first

That takes time. Pretty simple. You seem to be in love with pretty covers, disregarding the content. Free the pike!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

58. "I am in favor of planetary restoration."

Like in Jurassic Park?

[RobertEarl]

59. Jurassic Park would be awesome.

But let's not go overboard.

Let us consider that the planetary damage done in the last 100 years may be able to be repaired.

[maxsolomon]

31. If you want to learn the answer to your question, then yes, you will read the EIS.

i do not have the time or inclination to abstract it for you.

because I tend to trust (yes, trust) the government officials and consultants who prepare these things. because i've worked on them, and you can't fake an EIS - they're an unbelievable redtape hassle.

to me, the linked article in the OP is "hair on fire".

[grahampuba]

18. another engineering problem i see.

nothing that a short term fix cant handle!

doesn't deforestation generally contribute to desertification?

what pray tell, aesthetically pleasing replacement do you think is going to appear after a through dousing of roundup also?

[railsback]

21. I'll trust engineers, botanists and biologists

before I even consider the argument that these fire hazards should stay because they're 'pretty'. They're obviously killing off the remnants of these plants first. Self explanatory.

[XemaSab]

34. I remember the hills fire

and there should not be a single eucalyptus left standing in those hills. They're not native and they're dangerous.

[railsback]

37. Exactly

but first, they need to be eradicated.

[Yo_Mama]

41. Ah, that I did not know

I am pleased that there is some rationality.

Two feet of wood chips aren't native.

[Mz Pip]

44. I watched that fire burn

It was like watching a volcano erupt. Something like 2200 homes were lost and 25 people were killed.

We are having a very dry year with forest fires starting now, in May. That Oakland hills fire was in October. It's going to be a long fire season and I doubt anyone wants a repeat of that devastating fire.

[NickB79]

20. They're removing non-native, invasive eucalyptus trees

Which is probably a good thing on the whole.

It's a shame they won't replant with native trees to replace these though. A good tree canopy is vital to saving energy and promoting a sense of well-being, along with being good for the environment.

And anyone who classifies Round-Up as "highly toxic" doesn't remember the bad old days before they introduced it, when we used to use wonderful shit like atrazine on the fields. Now THAT was highly toxic, in the fact that it eventually ended up giving you cancer. Fun times.

[SheilaT]

27. I don't know anything about this particular situation, but I do know

that fire is an enormous hazard in lots of places, especially where there are severe or extreme drought conditions.

All too often people plant trees and bushes right up next to their houses, want to live on narrow, winding lanes that firetrucks can't maneuver down very easily, and then wonder why whole neighborhoods burn.

I'm in Santa Fe, NM. This entire state is in drought, with about three-quarters considered to be in extreme or exceptional drought conditions. There's a little tiny piece in the southeastern corner that is merely abnormally dry. They've already banned campfires and smoking outside unless standing within an area well-cleared of any debris or flammable material. I don't think they've yet called off the official 4th of July fireworks, but it may well happen. Unfortunately, there's no legal ability to ban the kind of fireworks people buy, so look forward to lots of fires in this state in a month or two.

There have been articles in the local newspaper about the parts of town that are very susceptible to fires, mainly on the north and east of the city where there's actual forest.

[tularetom]

28. Anybody that objects to this might want to watch this video from October 1991

This happened on a warm Sunday afternoon. I could see the smoke from my house over 100 miles away. Over three thousand homes were destroyed and some were never rebuilt.

The severity of the fire was because it was windy and because access to the fire area was difficult due to the twisty, narrow roads in the area, but also because the trees in the hills were eucalyptus, full of explosively flammable pitch.

[OmahaBlueDog]

49. Thank you for posting that!

[tularetom]

52. Go Bears!!

[OmahaBlueDog]

53. Go Bears!

Welcome to the Sonny Dykes era!

[DeSwiss]

29. K&R

Last edited Wed Aug 28, 2013, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

In the late 1800s to early 1900s, this area was hilly grassland with a few trees dotted here and there:




As the area and the school developed and more people moved in they planted trees in these hills and this was the result:





And then this started happening:


http://www.paulkienitz.net/gallery/


http://www.paulkienitz.net/gallery/

http://claremontcanyon.org/firehistoryvideo/

http://claremontcanyon.org/1991fire/

- True story.

[Xithras]

35. Those black and whites are deceptive

It's true that the area was largely treeless in the early 1900's, but that's because the Spanish and the early American settlers in the mid 1800's had already clearcut most of the natal tree cover for construction materials and firewood. Originally, those hills were covered in native oak forest and looked more like this:



This is what Berkeley hopes to eventually restore.

[tabasco]

60. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

In the late 19th century, WEST VIRGINIA was virtually tree-less due to clear cutting for timber.

I like the way you imply that was the natural state of affairs in some regard.

[paulkienitz]

61. those last two photos were taken by me

and lately they've gotten pretty widely spread without attribution.

Not that I ever asked money for them, but I did ask credit.

[DeSwiss]

62. Sorry Paul.

I pulled them from the Google cache and just right-clicked the file. Please forgive my oversight. I've since edited my post. (http://www.paulkienitz.net/)

- You do great work!

[paulkienitz]

63. thanx

[Hell Hath No Fury]

32. I am all for it --

The eucalyptus were planted as wind barriers back in the day but are non-native and WILDLY flamable. I think this is a smart thing for FEMA to do. In time the area can return to what it was - beautiful scrub and grasses. Before San Bruno mountain became a State Park it was planted with eucalyptus as well. When park status was granted all the eucalyptus was removed -- I was utterly shocked when I came across them cutting down the trees. Now, many years later, San Bruno mountain is beautiful and native --

[NBachers]

51. I've started spending Friday or Saturday mornings on San Bruno Mountain- How beautiful it is there!

A lot of times, there's only us- it's like we own the whole place.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

56. It is a real treasure --

and you're right, it is very rare to see more than a dozen or so folks when visiting. I like that. I have yet to see a Mission Blue butterfly, but perhaps I've not gone during the right season.

[NBachers]

57. A few weeks ago we were there when it was real foggy- we saw rabbits all over

Some looked half-grown, like they had recently hatched. It's like they felt safer from the ever-patrolling hawks with the overcast skies.

Other times, it's foggy 'till we get part way up the mountain, then we emerge into sunshine. We're overlooking the Bay Area blanketed in fog.

[Xithras]

33. This is a GOOD thing.

These are manmade forests planted with invasive and introduced trees that destroy the natural ecosystem in that area. The projects will eradicate the introduced forest and allow for the restoration of the native oak woodland and the return of the native wildlife that goes along with it.

There are always some people who reject change, and nimby's who worry about "property values", and this change will certainly have some short term negative impacts on that area, but it's the right thing to do in the long term. People who hike through the restored oak forest a century from now will be glad we did.

Go Cal!

[wordpix]

36. wtf? so much for those bastions of liberal thinking and FU, FEMA, terrible idea:-(

[hunter]

39. The sooner they cut these trees down the better.

When the native vegetation returns it will be much nicer and less dangerous.

[Yo_Mama]

40. So FEMA is becoming the disaster-creating agency?

Wood chips two feet thick have to be a very severe fire hazard. I guess it will be a comfort when the smoldering chips release herbicide fumes for a zesty environmental aromatherapy.

I'm from GA. We have peat fires that burn for years. They can be ignited by lightning, and then the fire smolders along. When the wind picks up and the conditions are right, the fire takes off again.

Firebreaks? Is there no moderation possible? Have you folks out there been letting these people hit the medical marijuana too hard?

[mulsh]

42. As a native & still resdent of that area I say "THANK GOD, CAN YOU START TOMORROW?"

Those canyons have burned in devastating ways twice in my life: in 1971 and even worse in 1991. The primary fuel is introduced trees, Australian Eucalyptus to be specific. One of the clever ways this tree propagates is via brush fires. Speaking from extensive personal experience these trees are very difficult if not impossible to eradicate.

The author of the article is impassioned but disingenuous and highly selective of the targeted flora in the area. Both canyons have extensive UC AG dept study areas, any one hiking up there can't help encountering signs and warnings. UC is vigilent in protecting these areas.

The city of Oakland and Oakland hills residents have struggled for years trying to eradicate these trees FEMA"s assistance is very much needed.

[truthisfreedom]

43. We certainly have some wildly differing viewpoints in this thread. Read Carefully!

The thread I mean!

[Dreamer Tatum]

47. Eucalyptus trees are essentially giant matches growing out of the ground

that, oh, EXPLODE when they get really hot.

Cut the fuckers down YESTERDAY.

[OmahaBlueDog]

48. That was THE takeaway from the East Bay fires

Despite my smartass post upthread, I wouldn't ordinarily favor clearcutting in the Berkeley hills. However, your comment is spot-on. The trees explode, and they are non-native. I would somewhat compare this removal to the efforts to rid Florida of non-native Melaeuca trees.

[RILib]

54. mudslides, erosion, canyons welcome to idiocy.

[sofa king]

55. Psst--I've got a carbon offset deal for ya, Berkeley....

Weed, dude! Weed!