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hack89

(39,171 posts)
Thu May 23, 2013, 12:47 PM May 2013

New evidence in George Zimmerman case : Trayvon texted about being a fighter

Source: Orlando Sentinel

Defense attorneys in the George Zimmerman case today released evidence they discovered on Trayvon Martin's cell phones, including text messages in which he wrote about taking part in organized fights.

Zimmerman described Trayvon to police as an aggressive young man who punched him, knocking him to the ground then climbed on top and began hammering his head onto a sidewalk.

In one text message Trayvon sent Nov. 22, 2011, he wrote about his unnamed opponent, "he got mo hits cause in da 1st round he had me on da ground an I couldn't do ntn."

In another text send Dec. 12 he acknowledged earning a reputation in the neighborhood – although because words were blacked out, it's not clear what his reputation was. His reputation came, he wrote, because of "Duh way I fight nd duh golds (teeth) I had last year."

Read more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-20130523,0,939183.story?track=rss



The key to this trial is what evidence the judge will allow. Zimmerman's lawyers will do their best to smear Trayvon and paint him as an aggressive thug. It is going to be ugly as hell.
121 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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New evidence in George Zimmerman case : Trayvon texted about being a fighter (Original Post) hack89 May 2013 OP
None of that is remotely relevant to the night he was killed. morningfog May 2013 #1
Zimmerman's defense is that Martin attacked him hack89 May 2013 #3
Why did he pursue him in the first place? Blue_Tires May 2013 #16
Because he is a racist jerk? nt hack89 May 2013 #20
Answer: Because Zimmer wanted a confrontation? Katashi_itto May 2013 #31
Maybe Zim had heard of this lid BlueStreak May 2013 #83
he was the aggressor the moment he got out of the car...because: he is not a cop noiretextatique Jun 2013 #111
Supposedly it was because the neighborhood had a lot of burglaries FrodosPet Jun 2013 #116
Evidence that Martin had been in fights in his past is not relevant to morningfog May 2013 #32
Not saying it is hack89 May 2013 #35
evidence that Martin sought out to be in fights ... quadrature May 2013 #59
Oh really? How so? morningfog May 2013 #60
'organized fights' . first paragraph of text. .nt quadrature May 2013 #61
What does that have to do with the night he was killed? Was it an organized fight? morningfog May 2013 #64
It isn't relevant, but it will probably get introduced. Kennah May 2013 #70
My nephew was into cage fighting bitchkitty May 2013 #98
not a thug ... quadrature May 2013 #99
There is no evidence that Zimmerman started the fight cheyanne May 2013 #85
getting out the car, after being instucted not to do so, with a gun, is aggression, imho noiretextatique Jun 2013 #112
"Anyway, I was chasing the colored boy with hoodie down the street..." Buzz Clik May 2013 #8
You made me laugh, I am sick. Good summary though. uppityperson May 2013 #103
The prosecution might not wish Trayvon to be viewed as a fighter Jake Izzy May 2013 #26
But the defense opened the gates. atreides1 May 2013 #27
Zimmerman was charged with "resisting an officer without violence" Jake Izzy May 2013 #30
Prosecution can't use Zimmerman's past, Benton D Struckcheon May 2013 #58
Jury is already selected so jury pool is not a consideration unless there is a retrial. yellowcanine Jun 2013 #118
It is highly relevant. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #113
After watching Star Trek SCVDem May 2013 #2
Depends. Are you a scary black man in a hooded sweatshirt? If so, I must kill you now. Buzz Clik May 2013 #9
even if any of this were true, on that night, an armed, very large man, stalked (despite being niyad May 2013 #4
True - but guilty people are found not guilty all the time hack89 May 2013 #5
I know--and the thought that this murderer might get off makes me ill. niyad May 2013 #6
We get it... Blue_Tires May 2013 #18
I think he is guilty and should go to jail. hack89 May 2013 #22
That's not true Hyper_Eye May 2013 #10
Self inflicted libodem May 2013 #11
There is no evidence of that. Hyper_Eye May 2013 #21
Seconded. knixphan May 2013 #36
Those wounds are totally superficial Downtown Hound May 2013 #14
I agree. Hyper_Eye May 2013 #19
I believe Zimmerman to be guilty, Jenoch May 2013 #33
Zimmerman's family doctor said a nose fracture was likely Jake Izzy May 2013 #34
Likely or happened? Downtown Hound May 2013 #42
How soon after the rupture did you see these noses? Jake Izzy May 2013 #44
If his nose was still bleeding then it was pretty shortly afterwords Downtown Hound May 2013 #86
mine didn't bleed at all TorchTheWitch May 2013 #93
Do you have John2 May 2013 #41
The coroner's report Hyper_Eye May 2013 #43
the video of him in the police station shows a person whose shirt is clean, who does NOT have blood niyad May 2013 #50
It was grainy and low-res Hyper_Eye May 2013 #53
Zimmerman was 5'9, 170 lbs. Jake Izzy May 2013 #48
Trayvon was 5'11" and 158 XemaSab May 2013 #66
yes, poor, defenseless Zimmerman cvoogt May 2013 #7
two fist bubba4249 May 2013 #12
Two Fist is good..... clarice May 2013 #28
How is this Jamaal510 May 2013 #13
It shows how Zimmerman will smear Martin's character hack89 May 2013 #23
He could be talking about a video game for all anyone knows Blue_Tires May 2013 #15
Irrelevant erpowers May 2013 #17
It shows how Zimmerman will smear Martin's character hack89 May 2013 #24
But would his being a fighter undermine the claim that Zimmerman dominated the fight against him? Jake Izzy May 2013 #29
Yup naaman fletcher May 2013 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl May 2013 #25
yes me 2 lunasun May 2013 #55
Martin may have used his fists to fight...Zimmerman definitely used his gun to murder. SoapBox May 2013 #37
You are correct. nt hack89 May 2013 #38
That's a circular argument Jake Izzy May 2013 #46
doesn't that hideous beat Thug Zimmerman have a fucking police record of violence against others ? JI7 May 2013 #39
Do you have google? Jake Izzy May 2013 #45
Ugly side of justice - Guy stalks his victim then says it was self-defense and his lawyers 2Design May 2013 #47
Did the 9-11 operator really tell Zimmerman to stay in his car? Jake Izzy May 2013 #56
Read the 911 transcript Art_from_Ark May 2013 #107
this explains a lot klyon May 2013 #49
zimmerman wasn't neighborhood watch--he was an armed vigilante. neighborhood watch does niyad May 2013 #51
Just like the rape victim in her short skirt Generic Other May 2013 #52
Zimmy is guilty of first degree murder. He was told to back off and he didn't.To the max after guilt graham4anything May 2013 #54
Considering the state of Florida charged him with 2nd degree murder hack89 May 2013 #57
The federal government should look into this as a civil rights violation graham4anything May 2013 #68
It still would not be first degree murder. nt hack89 May 2013 #73
If Zimmerman, the NRA poster person was packing a tennis ball, Mr. Martin would still be alive graham4anything May 2013 #75
No shit. nt hack89 May 2013 #78
Zim should have kept his ass in the car. rrneck May 2013 #62
Very true. nt hack89 May 2013 #63
Projecting much, George? alp227 May 2013 #65
Is this the new NRA spin? baldguy May 2013 #67
Cool! +4.3million!!! Well worth my time to go and have a look see. graham4anything May 2013 #69
Ouch! Kingofalldems May 2013 #72
Only if the NRA thinks he is guilty. hack89 May 2013 #74
. NoGOPZone May 2013 #91
Nice to know. Explains why this JimDandy May 2013 #104
Mr. Martin took part in organized fights. No evidence for 'unorganized' fights. agentS May 2013 #71
Zimmerman's guilt begins when he got out of the vehicle and started stalking... Frustratedlady May 2013 #76
I know. hack89 May 2013 #77
So let me get this straight WeekendWarrior May 2013 #79
It is an attempt to smear Martin's character and paint him as a violent person hack89 May 2013 #80
I'm convinced that WeekendWarrior May 2013 #81
I think Zimmerman committed murder. hack89 May 2013 #82
As does any sane person. nt WeekendWarrior May 2013 #94
Ditto. n/t RebelOne Jun 2013 #121
There was an eyewitness. GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #115
You absolutely know that the defense will... Bay Boy May 2013 #84
How the fuck is this even relevant? Arkana May 2013 #87
It is insight into the defense strategy hack89 May 2013 #88
scarey & weird a neighborhood watch would only, stare, follow, stalk, chase and never say a word. Sunlei May 2013 #89
a HS kid texts like a HS kid. adult wannabcop Zim hung around w/ Sanford police kids who did 'fight Sunlei May 2013 #90
didn't one of the witnesses say something about "on top of him mma style?" ileus May 2013 #92
Irrelevant. MrSlayer May 2013 #95
Nothing is irrelevent if a jury sees it. hack89 May 2013 #96
Agreed. MrSlayer May 2013 #97
Martin's hoody was gray with red lining. LanternWaste May 2013 #108
If his lawyers raise the issue and try to get it introduced as evidence hack89 May 2013 #109
So, by this "logic" (and I use the word loosely), everytime Glorious George said "I'm gonna kill MADem May 2013 #100
Why would they allow this to be opened to the public still_one May 2013 #101
poisoning the jury pool Bradical79 May 2013 #102
Has NOTHING to do with why Trayvon was killed Politicalboi May 2013 #105
And that is what the trial will determine marshall May 2013 #106
The one question the Zimmerman defense team cannot logically answer: Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #110
Muhammed Ali was great in organized fights too. Jamastiene Jun 2013 #114
So Trayvon deserved to die? tblue Jun 2013 #117
No. Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder. hack89 Jun 2013 #120
The ONLY thing that matters is did Trayvon Martin have the reasonable fear in MillennialDem Jun 2013 #119

hack89

(39,171 posts)
3. Zimmerman's defense is that Martin attacked him
Thu May 23, 2013, 12:55 PM
May 2013

after Zimmerman gave up his pursuit and was returning to his car. So painting Martin as being violent would buttress such a defense.

Besides - character assignation is a tried and true legal tactic. It works all the time.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
16. Why did he pursue him in the first place?
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:50 PM
May 2013

I'm going to keep asking this question until I get an answer...

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
83. Maybe Zim had heard of this lid
Fri May 24, 2013, 10:09 AM
May 2013

and sought him out -- to be king of the hill himself.

Why knows? That line of defense could potentially backfire on Zimmerman's lawyer.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
111. he was the aggressor the moment he got out of the car...because: he is not a cop
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:17 PM
Jun 2013

he had no right to confront, question or detain Martin, so he claim of self-defense is complete bullshit. funny how some peoplle think he had some "right\' to question the young man

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
116. Supposedly it was because the neighborhood had a lot of burglaries
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:18 PM
Jun 2013

But Trayvon Martin was just walking down the street, minding his own business.

If he was looking in people's windows, or doing something that was actually suspicious, Zimmerman should have called the police, at most getting a picture of him, and staying out of the way. But Martin was only walking down the street. It's a clear case of "None Of Your Business, George".

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
32. Evidence that Martin had been in fights in his past is not relevant to
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:33 PM
May 2013

who started the fight the night Zimmerman killed him.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
60. Oh really? How so?
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:30 PM
May 2013

The texts suggest he was in fights, not that he sought to be in fights.

What does any of it have to do with the night he was murdered?

Kennah

(14,256 posts)
70. It isn't relevant, but it will probably get introduced.
Fri May 24, 2013, 02:06 AM
May 2013

Unless Zimmerman knew in advance that Trayvon Martin had participated in "organized fights"--whatever the hell that is--then it wasn't information Zimmerman had at the time. As such, it isn't information that would have in any way influenced Zimmerman's actions.

I did FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) for a couple of years, I sparred, and I fought at tournaments. Were those "organized fights"? Seems that Zimmerman's defense team is testing the waters with loaded words to try out in court.

bitchkitty

(7,349 posts)
98. My nephew was into cage fighting
Sun May 26, 2013, 10:49 AM
May 2013

some time ago. He's far from a thug. Organized fights are barbaric, but so is any kind of aggressive sport - boxing, wrestling, football.

I don't see participating in an organized fight as relevant to the man's murder.

 

quadrature

(2,049 posts)
99. not a thug ...
Sun May 26, 2013, 02:44 PM
May 2013

I never wrote that I thought that
Trayvon was a street thug.

OTOH, I find it hard to believe
that Tub-o-Lard could run down
Trayvon in a foot race.

cheyanne

(733 posts)
85. There is no evidence that Zimmerman started the fight
Fri May 24, 2013, 10:29 AM
May 2013

Remember there is a difference between what happened and what can be proved in court . . .

Criticizing the societal environment is a necessary step combating racism and vigilantism, but it must not be confused with what can be proved in court.

If you are really interested in the law in the case,
Talk Left has a Zimmerman blog that outlines what the rules of evidence are in Florida, as well as the strategies that the prosecution and defense may use.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
112. getting out the car, after being instucted not to do so, with a gun, is aggression, imho
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:19 PM
Jun 2013

which indicates that his intent may have included more than just talking.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
8. "Anyway, I was chasing the colored boy with hoodie down the street..."
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:08 PM
May 2013

"I shouted, 'Hey, get your ass back to Harlem' and waved my gun at him. For no reason whatsoever, he became enraged and started him me. Naturally, I killed him."

(why George is unlikely to take the stand)

 

Jake Izzy

(130 posts)
26. The prosecution might not wish Trayvon to be viewed as a fighter
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:14 PM
May 2013

In my opinion, the jury would believe that Zimmerman dominated the fight against Trayvon more if they do not become aware that he participated in organized fights.

A non-fighter can be associated more to a defenseless man screaming for help than a fighter.

The use of marihuana is irrelevant in my opinion. Weed doesn't make people dangerous or violent.

atreides1

(16,076 posts)
27. But the defense opened the gates.
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:17 PM
May 2013

Which means Zimmerman's past will be put out for all to see...including his iteractions with law enforcement here in Virginia.

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
58. Prosecution can't use Zimmerman's past,
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:28 PM
May 2013

and the defense can't use any of the crap they're putting out either. They're trying to taint the jury pool.

yellowcanine

(35,699 posts)
118. Jury is already selected so jury pool is not a consideration unless there is a retrial.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:43 PM
Jun 2013

"taint the jury" is probably what you mean.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
113. It is highly relevant.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:57 PM
Jun 2013

Arizona v Fish, 2009. Fish was convicted of 2nd degree murder. The defense had not been able to introduce the type of person the deceased, Grant Kuenzli, was. Grant Kuenzli had a past that included violent aggression. The Appeals Court granted a new trial and reprimanded the trial court.

The character of both Martin and Z are important and relevant.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
9. Depends. Are you a scary black man in a hooded sweatshirt? If so, I must kill you now.
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:09 PM
May 2013

It's only logical.

niyad

(113,275 posts)
4. even if any of this were true, on that night, an armed, very large man, stalked (despite being
Thu May 23, 2013, 12:57 PM
May 2013

told to stand down) an unarmed, much smaller, teenager, and shot and killed him. period. (and let us not forget that, according to the video at the police station, zimmerman was not covered in blood, there was no indication that his head had been smacked into the concrete, his shirt was clean)

hack89

(39,171 posts)
5. True - but guilty people are found not guilty all the time
Thu May 23, 2013, 12:59 PM
May 2013

Look at OJ or Casey Anthony. Stuff like this may be enough to sway a jury if presented correctly.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
18. We get it...
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:54 PM
May 2013

For reasons only god knows, you're rooting so laughably hard for a Zimmerman acquittal...You're just itching to rub my face in that shit, aren't you??

hack89

(39,171 posts)
22. I think he is guilty and should go to jail.
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:59 PM
May 2013

I just think the trial is not going to be a slam dunk - I thought Casey Anthony was guilty too.

Why would I want to rub it in your face? I don't know you from Adam. I don't recall anything previous interaction between us that would turn this into something personal.

Hyper_Eye

(675 posts)
10. That's not true
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:16 PM
May 2013

There are pictures of his head bleeding at the scene:



There is a picture of his bloodied nose at the scene:



There are pictures of the head wounds and nose wounds at the police station:



I do not support Zimmerman at all but we can't deny that there was a fight. The evidence shows there was a fight. I think arguing that Trayvon Martin did not engage in a physical altercation with George Zimmerman is a losing argument. The correct argument is that it doesn't matter! Zimmerman profiled and pursued Martin while carrying a deadly weapon. That's why Martin died that night. If a stranger followed me and then approached me in a threatening manner I would defend myself as violently as necessary. It was within Trayvon's rights to protect himself from bodily harm or death.

Hyper_Eye

(675 posts)
21. There is no evidence of that.
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:58 PM
May 2013

Your conspiracy theory isn't going to carry any weight in court. Arguing about the fight itself is pointless. The fight should never have happened because Zimmerman should not have pursued Trayvon. End of story.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
14. Those wounds are totally superficial
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:45 PM
May 2013

None of them are deep. A few scratches and a bloody nose. I've had shaving cuts that bled about as much as some of those wounds on the back of the head. And all this came after he stalked Trayvon. And how much did he outweigh Trayvon by? A few cuts and he shot him?

What a wimp. Sorry but, last I checked, you can't shoot someone for giving you a bloody nose and a few cuts, especially after you've engaged in aggressive stalking behavior with them.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
33. I believe Zimmerman to be guilty,
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:34 PM
May 2013

however, what would have happened if the fight had continued without Zimmerman's gun. You don't know what he was thinking at the time, you also don't know what Martin was thinking or how much more fighting would continue. Hell, he could have cracked Zimmerman's head open on the pavement. Or, Zimmerman could have gotten away without a shot. That's why there are trials with evidence presented in cases such as this one.

 

Jake Izzy

(130 posts)
34. Zimmerman's family doctor said a nose fracture was likely
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:39 PM
May 2013

To say that they were superficial is debatable.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
42. Likely or happened?
Thu May 23, 2013, 04:22 PM
May 2013

If the doctor still doesn't know by now, then he's just really not very good at his job. And if there was a fracture, then let's see the X-rays to prove it.

Oh and on edit: I've seen more than one broken nose before. Every one of them bled a hell of a lot more than Zimmerman is in that picture. Broken noses tend to not just lightly bleed. They gush.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
86. If his nose was still bleeding then it was pretty shortly afterwords
Fri May 24, 2013, 11:12 AM
May 2013

That blood is fresh, still wet. And most broken noses produce enough blood to where it would have left dried smears all over his face, neck, and shirt, ect. All I see on Zimmerman is a little trickle down his lip. Every broken nose I've seen leaves a bloody mess all over. Dried smears, shirt stains...

And I'll repeat, when a doctor says a fractured nose is "likely" well, what was the final verdict? Is he just going to go on saying it was "likely" for the next ten years? Ever hear of an X-ray machine, doc? Was it fractured or wasn't it? Forget me and my testimony. What did the doctor say? the mere fact that I haven't heard a single thing about Trayvon breaking Zimmerman's nose is to me very strong evidence that it didn't happen, because I think every Zimmerman humper out there would be frothing at the mouth with such news.

So either it didn't happen, and that "family doctor" is lying, or he's the worst doctor in the world and doesn't know about x-rays.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
93. mine didn't bleed at all
Sat May 25, 2013, 01:37 AM
May 2013

It was a bad break though. It felt like my nose was coming out of my ear, and three quarters of one nostril was blocked by cartilage. I had to have overnight surgery to get it fixed.

Hyper_Eye

(675 posts)
43. The coroner's report
Thu May 23, 2013, 04:26 PM
May 2013

The full report is available at the end of this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/trayvon-martin-autopsy_n_1525763.html

I do not intend to look for pictures of Trayvon post-mortem. That is not something I am prepared to see. Again, I am not disputing whether or not Zimmerman attacked Trayvon. The statement that I disputed was that Zimmerman arrived at the police station without injuries. That was based on an early low resolution photo taken by a security camera. Higher resolution photos have been released since then that show that initial assessment to be incorrect. I just want to make sure we are basing our opinions and arguments on the facts as they are currently known.

niyad

(113,275 posts)
50. the video of him in the police station shows a person whose shirt is clean, who does NOT have blood
Thu May 23, 2013, 07:23 PM
May 2013

or marks anywhere on his person. sorry, those pics were taken later.

Hyper_Eye

(675 posts)
53. It was grainy and low-res
Thu May 23, 2013, 07:38 PM
May 2013

It is impossible to tell if his nose is busted in those stills. Also his jacket is closed at the scene and open in that footage. It was raining that day. Consider that his shirt might be clean because he had his jacket zipped up during the incident.

This photo is clearly at the scene:

To say that the picture was taken later is to say that police were complicit after they were already under incredible scrutiny. I don't dive into conspiracy land with right-wingers and I'm not doing it with anyone else. You have to show me something more convincing than some grainy security camera footage, which is far from conclusive anyway, first.

 

Jake Izzy

(130 posts)
48. Zimmerman was 5'9, 170 lbs.
Thu May 23, 2013, 05:51 PM
May 2013

Whether he was "very large" or not is a matter of opinion. Some would say that's very large, some would not.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
66. Trayvon was 5'11" and 158
Thu May 23, 2013, 10:17 PM
May 2013

2 inches taller and 12 pounds lighter.

From Trayvon's perspective, Zimmerman would not have been "very large."

cvoogt

(949 posts)
7. yes, poor, defenseless Zimmerman
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:03 PM
May 2013

whatever could he do to protect himself? He just *had* to 'stand his ground' which of course means fatally shooting a teen. What a hero.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
23. It shows how Zimmerman will smear Martin's character
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:03 PM
May 2013

to show that Martin was violent. Remember that Zimmerman's defense is that he stop pursuing Martin and was headed back to his car when Martin attacked him.

There were no witnesses - all the evidence is circumstantial. What evidence the jury sees or does not see is critical.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
15. He could be talking about a video game for all anyone knows
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:49 PM
May 2013

unless the defense has someone willing to testify that he/she personally saw Martin at these Fight Club championships...

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
17. Irrelevant
Thu May 23, 2013, 01:53 PM
May 2013

The things this article talks about are irrelevant to this case. Just because he supposedly fought in organized fights does not mean he would attack a person who was just walking around a community.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
24. It shows how Zimmerman will smear Martin's character
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:04 PM
May 2013

to paint him as a violent person. Character assassination is a popular legal tactic because it works - who knows what a Florida jury will believe.

 

Jake Izzy

(130 posts)
29. But would his being a fighter undermine the claim that Zimmerman dominated the fight against him?
Thu May 23, 2013, 02:20 PM
May 2013

Due to the conflicting reports from expert audio witnesses as to who screamed when and who said what, wouldn't the prosecution wish Trayvon to be viewed as a person not used to fighting?

Isn't it harder to bring a non-fighter to the ground and make him scream for help?

Response to hack89 (Original post)

 

Jake Izzy

(130 posts)
46. That's a circular argument
Thu May 23, 2013, 04:54 PM
May 2013

It goes like this. Killing is murder on certain circumstances, according to the law. But when asked why this particular shooting was a murder (according to the law), your answer would be as follows:

Q: Why was Zimmerman's shooting murder?
A: Because he's guilty of murder.

JI7

(89,247 posts)
39. doesn't that hideous beat Thug Zimmerman have a fucking police record of violence against others ?
Thu May 23, 2013, 03:49 PM
May 2013

the Trayvon stuff sounds like stupid teenage talk to make themselves sound tough to others .

 

Jake Izzy

(130 posts)
45. Do you have google?
Thu May 23, 2013, 04:52 PM
May 2013

Maybe if you went to google (or even Bing) you wouldn't have to ask others whether this "police record of violence" exists.

2Design

(9,099 posts)
47. Ugly side of justice - Guy stalks his victim then says it was self-defense and his lawyers
Thu May 23, 2013, 05:47 PM
May 2013

are trying to paint his victim as the aggressor - if Zimmerman had stayed in his car as 911 operator told him - Trayvon would not be dead

 

Jake Izzy

(130 posts)
56. Did the 9-11 operator really tell Zimmerman to stay in his car?
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:00 PM
May 2013

Does the police call transcript mention a car?

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
107. Read the 911 transcript
Tue May 28, 2013, 01:36 AM
May 2013

Zimmerman

(unclear) See if you can get an officer over here.

Dispatcher

Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman

Okay. These (expletive) they always get away. Yep. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher

So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman

No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left, uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. (expletive) he's running.

Dispatcher

He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now walking. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.
Zimmerman

Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher

Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman

The back entrance…(expletive)(unclear)

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear.

Dispatcher

Are you following him?

Zimmerman

Yeah.

Dispatcher

Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman

Ok.


http://bizsecurity.about.com/od/creatingpolicies/a/A-Transcript-Of-The-George-Zimmerman-Police-Call.htm

klyon

(1,697 posts)
49. this explains a lot
Thu May 23, 2013, 06:51 PM
May 2013

Zimmerman gave chase to a teenage boy (who had done nothing wrong and was minding his own business), then when the kid was beating the hell out of him he used deadly force to extract himself from the mess he had started and brought on himself.
Lock the asshole up for a long time. Guilty guilty guilty
Neighborhoods should be very careful who they allow to do neighborhood watch.

niyad

(113,275 posts)
51. zimmerman wasn't neighborhood watch--he was an armed vigilante. neighborhood watch does
Thu May 23, 2013, 07:27 PM
May 2013

not go armed.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
52. Just like the rape victim in her short skirt
Thu May 23, 2013, 07:33 PM
May 2013

walking in a darkly lit area...Trayvon Martin's past is used to paint him as deserving to be attacked. Sickening that they have fallen back on this defense.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
57. Considering the state of Florida charged him with 2nd degree murder
Thu May 23, 2013, 08:28 PM
May 2013

you might want to reconsider that particular legal theory.

alp227

(32,019 posts)
65. Projecting much, George?
Thu May 23, 2013, 09:20 PM
May 2013

He's got nothing to stand on. This "evidence" = DESPERATION. Keep digging yourself deeper and making yourself into the fool you are, George.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
104. Nice to know. Explains why this
Sun May 26, 2013, 03:40 PM
May 2013

Last edited Tue May 28, 2013, 11:55 AM - Edit history (1)

gunned-down teenage murder victim's juvenile braggadocio is being posted here.

agentS

(1,325 posts)
71. Mr. Martin took part in organized fights. No evidence for 'unorganized' fights.
Fri May 24, 2013, 05:57 AM
May 2013

He certainly wasn't attacking anyone in the street when Mr. Zimmerman accosted him.
Maybe he wanted to become a MMA style fighter, maybe it was a hobby? We don't know cause he's dead and can't tell us!
But, unless he's on record as having attacked random people in the streets, then this doesn't help the defense.

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
76. Zimmerman's guilt begins when he got out of the vehicle and started stalking...
Fri May 24, 2013, 09:22 AM
May 2013

What was the kid supposed to do? Stand there and take it without defending himself? Talk about aggressive. Zimmerman was the aggressor.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
77. I know.
Fri May 24, 2013, 09:26 AM
May 2013

But with no eyewitnesses this trial is not a slam dunk. I thought Casey Anthony was guilty as hell too.

WeekendWarrior

(1,437 posts)
79. So let me get this straight
Fri May 24, 2013, 09:31 AM
May 2013

You confront a guy, you're carrying a gun, and YOUR life is in danger because he took part in organized fights?

Someone please tell me why the stand your ground law only seems to apply to the guy who isn't African American?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
80. It is an attempt to smear Martin's character and paint him as a violent person
Fri May 24, 2013, 09:36 AM
May 2013

Zimmerman's defense is that he stopped pursuing Martin and was walking back to his car when Martin attacked him. For him to pull that off, he has to paint Martin as a violent person.

It is pure desperation but with no eyewitnesses who knows what a Florida jury will do.

WeekendWarrior

(1,437 posts)
81. I'm convinced that
Fri May 24, 2013, 09:47 AM
May 2013

Zimmerman politely shook Martin's hand and wished him a good night before walking away. He also gave Martin his phone number so they could keep in touch. Oh, and Zimmerman complimented Martin on his shoes and the rest of his ensemble, which inexplicably caused Martin to fly into a homicidal rage.

Fortunately, Zimmerman had a gun.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
115. There was an eyewitness.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:24 PM
Jun 2013

W-6, John Good says he saw the fight and saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him up. Good claims that he yelled at Martin to stop but Martin continued to hit Z.

Bay Boy

(1,689 posts)
84. You absolutely know that the defense will...
Fri May 24, 2013, 10:11 AM
May 2013

...at least try to enter this info into the trial. Whether it's allowed or not is another question.

But if you were the prosecutor would you rather have the text message: "he got mo hits cause in da 1st round he had me on da ground an I couldn't do ntn."

or a text message: "heading for the MLK non-violence meeting" ?

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
87. How the fuck is this even relevant?
Fri May 24, 2013, 02:11 PM
May 2013

He wasn't armed. Zimmerman was. I don't care how skilled a fighter or boxer you are, a gun changes the equation.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
88. It is insight into the defense strategy
Fri May 24, 2013, 02:12 PM
May 2013

they are going to smear Martin's character to paint him as a violent person.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
89. scarey & weird a neighborhood watch would only, stare, follow, stalk, chase and never say a word.
Fri May 24, 2013, 02:16 PM
May 2013

not a word to ID himself. Sometimes the stalked fight back like their life depends on it.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
90. a HS kid texts like a HS kid. adult wannabcop Zim hung around w/ Sanford police kids who did 'fight
Fri May 24, 2013, 03:50 PM
May 2013

The old stalker hung around with the people in this video. They're a bunch of assholes who hit people from behind.

Published on Dec 29, 2010


A witness with a camera caught a homeless man being punched by a Sanford police lieutenant's son, who was never arrested or charged for the incident.

In the amateur video, the homeless man is seen trying to break up a fight when the police officer's son, Justin Collison, sneaks up from behind and punches the man in the back of the head.
He knocks out a homeless man in the first 5 seconds of this vid.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ileus

(15,396 posts)
92. didn't one of the witnesses say something about "on top of him mma style?"
Fri May 24, 2013, 10:01 PM
May 2013

or something along those lines?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
108. Martin's hoody was gray with red lining.
Tue May 28, 2013, 08:50 AM
May 2013

Martin's hoody was gray with red lining.

Someone who thinks they are clever should start an OP about that... nothing is irrelevant. Who knows what a jury may think.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
109. If his lawyers raise the issue and try to get it introduced as evidence
Tue May 28, 2013, 09:24 AM
May 2013

then it might be a hint of a possible defense strategy - which would be very relevant if it actually works.

The OP shows Zimmerman's defense strategy - his defense is that he stopped pursuing Martin and was walking back to the car when Martin attacked him. Now I think that is a BS argument but it explains why they would want to smear Martin as a violent person with a history of fighting.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
100. So, by this "logic" (and I use the word loosely), everytime Glorious George said "I'm gonna kill
Sun May 26, 2013, 02:54 PM
May 2013

you/him/her" is open to scrutiny. His bouncer days, his girlfriend-beating days, all of that good "Temper, TEMPER!!!" stuff is On. The. Table.

Assuming "evidence will allow." I hope the judge slaps the shit out of the defense for trying to adujicate the case via the media.

It doesn't matter if Trayvon WAS an "aggressive thug." It wouldn't matter if he was mean to his mama, or pulled the cat's tail.

Georgie boy stalked that teen and killed him, even after he was TOLD to back the hell off.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
102. poisoning the jury pool
Sun May 26, 2013, 03:02 PM
May 2013

Even if this isn't alowed to get introduced during trial, it makes it that much more difficult to find unbiased jurors with Martin publically being painted as a violent drug using thug.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
105. Has NOTHING to do with why Trayvon was killed
Sun May 26, 2013, 03:49 PM
May 2013

He could have been taking about a video game he played and fought there.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,181 posts)
110. The one question the Zimmerman defense team cannot logically answer:
Tue May 28, 2013, 12:37 PM
May 2013

Zimmerman's story:

Zimmerman sees Martin walking. Zimmerman thinks Martin is suspicious. Zimmerman gets out of the car. Supposedly Martin runs, and Zimmerman chases him. Zimmerman supposedly loses Martin, starts to walk back to his car.

Then Zimmerman claims he was "ambushed" by Martin.

Ambushed. By a guy who was being chased by a strange man for reasons unknown. Instead of either a) hiding out until the coast is clear, or b) heading back to the house where he was staying, we are supposed to believe that c) Martin "ambushed" Zimmerman. Why?

Ambushed, my ass.

I know there was a physical confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin. But I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt it resulted because of an unprovoked "ambush" by Trayvon Martin.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
114. Muhammed Ali was great in organized fights too.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:15 PM
Jun 2013

That doesn't mean it would be ok to shoot him just for being in the neighborhood. Their "evidence" is baloney. Zimmerman didn't have a right to shoot an unarmed kid.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
117. So Trayvon deserved to die?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:39 PM
Jun 2013

And Zimmy knew this about him.

Immaterial. Isn't that the legal term?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
120. No. Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 03:02 PM
Jun 2013

the point the post was to show how far the defense would go to smear Trayvon.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
119. The ONLY thing that matters is did Trayvon Martin have the reasonable fear in
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:44 PM
Jun 2013

his mind that Zimmerman could harm him and thus give him the right to self defense

AND possibly

Did Zimmerman give up / surrender and Trayvon continued to beat him?

It seems the latter never happened, the former is very likely to be true. Zimmerman chased Martin on foot (and possibly cut him off with a shortcut) from 7:11 to 7:16pm. That's FIVE MINUTES Trayvon Martin was running away. And he still can't lose a guy who then confronts him yelling at him.

Seems to me that is reasonable for Trayvon to assume that Zimmerman either meant him harm or was crazy and unpredictable. Thus, he had the right to defend himself until either Zimmerman gave up or was KOed.

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