Female inmates sterilized in California prisons without approval

[Galraedia]

Source: The Sacramento Bee

Doctors under contract with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation sterilized nearly 150 female inmates from 2006 to 2010 without required state approvals, the Center for Investigative Reporting has found.

At least 148 women received tubal ligations in violation of prison rules during those five years – and there are perhaps 100 more dating back to the late 1990s, according to state documents and interviews.

From 1997 to 2010, the state paid doctors $147,460 to perform the procedure, according to a database of contracted medical services for state prisoners.

The women were signed up for the surgery while they were pregnant and housed at either the California Institution for Women in Corona or Valley State Prison for Women in Chowchilla, which is now a men's prison.



Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/07/5549696/female-inmates-sterilized-in-california.html#storylink=cpy

[Demeter]

1. Sue the Governator and everyone from there on down

I thought we were clear that this WASN'T allowed, period! Evidently, somebody has to go to jail to hammer the point home.

[xtraxritical]

2. Prison Drs. are the worst, they're only in it for easy money.

[LiberalFighter]

33. There needs to be legislation that criminalizes the doctors performing it.

[Live and Learn]

3. WTF, they can't provide adequate medical care so they have to release prisoners

but they can afford these unnecessary and immoral surgeries?

[jwirr]

4. "War Against The Weak: Eugenics and America's Campaign to Create a Master Race" by

Edwin Black. As a member of a family who was a victim in Iowa of this practice in the 1930s I hope all involved go to hell. But before they get there I want to see them sue the state and all participants.

[Arcanetrance]

6. If it wasn't for the rise of Hitler eugenics in the United States would have continued

It was this country it took off in its early days

[Posteritatis]

8. Definitely not just the US - it was widely popular all over the place

The Second World War mostly discredited it, but I think it was sometime in the eighties when the US and Canada both finally did away with the last of their explicit, described-as-such eugenics programs, and stuff like this is still slipping through the cracks here, in the US, and in many other places.

(Eugenics is still quite popular on a man-on-the-street level too, mind. How often do you hear people sincerely talking about groups who shouldn't be permitted to breed?)

[Arcanetrance]

10. I'm very aware of the man on the street eugenics. My grandfather kept a diary and after he died

We found it and the things he wrote were sick about members of the family he'd prefer to have never bred. I knew he was racist but to find his thoughts on forced sterilization it really disturbed me

[ForeignandDomestic]

13. You're right

The Nazi's stigma put the Eugenics crowd underground for awhile, but they have never left.

They've been trying to make inroads lately with this Earth is overpopulated movement crap.

The question is who is it overpopulated by? Who are you trying to eliminate?

[link:

|

[Arcanetrance]

14. It's scary part is that if you look it is making huge in roads sadly I see more and more people

Advocating for permits to have kids and low IQ people to be sterilized. The funny thing is those who advocate these things rarely meet their own standards

[closeupready]

15. Yes, a longtime DU member promoted 'license to bear children' recently.

I told him/her where to go, but seems like it's an argument that pops up here more frequently over time.

[Arcanetrance]

16. It's the antithesis of what it means to be a progressive and a liberal

[ForeignandDomestic]

19. Exactly..

at the very end of the fascist rabbit hole is humans denying other humans their right to bear children.

[ForeignandDomestic]

35. That is sad..

But the human spirit is strong and their are tales of people who come from situations just like that who persevere and become outstanding citizens and make a positive difference on society as a whole.

How arrogant are some humans who feel they should be the authority on when life can be created, this planet was here before there were humans and will be here long after we stupid humans have destroyed ourselves.

This is a planet beaming with life and abundant resources that could sustain everyone on this planet and the many more to come behind us, the only scarcites are the manufactured ones because of greed.

[RILib]

45. that's nonsense

This is nonsense: "This is a planet beaming with life and abundant resources that could sustain everyone on this planet and the many more to come behind us, the only scarcites are the manufactured ones because of greed. "

The planet is already at 130% of its carrying capacity in terms of human population.

[ForeignandDomestic]

48. Nonsense right back at ya...

Sounds like 1% mumbo jumbo to me. People are being born everyday Atlas hasn't shrugged yet...

[link:

|

[eggplant]

70. do you care to back that up with some actual evidence? n/t

[Tumbulu]

60. I am with you

and I am sorry, but producing children into these situations is morally wrong and the pro-life nut jobs are making these people feel that they have done something right by producing a child- regardless of their ability to care for him or her.

It is wrong and I am all for stronger social services and I want children taken away from these people far faster than has been the case and I am sorry, there are not enough resources for the planet to be filled with people who are recreating in a free for all.

The arguments in this post are ridiculous.

[jwirr]

82. The story was about taking the kids away. We already have a way of handling that situation. I

suspect we do not use it enough because it costs quite a bit to place children in foster care.

[closeupready]

36. Absolutely 100% correct. For a liberal, power rests with the PEOPLE,

NOT with state authorities.

For a liberal, state authorities should ALWAYS need a COMPELLING SOCIAL INTEREST prior to reserving the exercise of any rights to their approval.

That doesn't mean you can't hate child abusers or deadbeat moms and/or dads. But for a liberal, each person's situation is unique.

Cheers.

[Posteritatis]

17. Funny how people who want population culls always want another group on the chopping block

I think I've only ever encountered one person doing the "such-and-such a group need to all be sterilized" thing where they applied it to themselves, and that was someone shoulders-deep into clinical depression so they were obviously not at their most objective anyway.

Just about everyone else I see taking that stance has a target, and they're not willing to volunteer.

[loudsue]

31. You are painting a lot of people with a very broad brush there. I'm WAY in favor of education

for the masses about overpopulation. The earth having too many people provides a ripe environment to make each person worth less, create slave wages, putting too many vulnerable people in competition for too few resources. Not to mention that EVERY person who walks this earth has a HUGE FOOTPRINT.

The earth cannot sustain many more billions of people. Education is crucial to encouraging people to think very carefully about it before bringing another person into this world.

[left on green only]

42. I agree with you Loudsue.

I made a PERSONAL decision during my twenty's that I was not going to partake in the further pollution of our tiny planet by adding even one more hungry mouth for it to feed. As I was growing up I was exposed to the same information as all of my peers were, concerning how we are destroying our planet with over population, versus what the ecological balance should be. The difference between them and me is that I chose to be responsible for my every act on this planet, while they instead clung to their irresponsible and self important beliefs that this tiny place somehow needs to be further polluted by a living part of themselves.

There is nothing bloody "sacred" about the existence of our species on this planet. It is egotistical for anyone to have the audacity to think so. We share this planet with all of the other creatures who live here. And they have just as much right to live here as we do, regardless of our ability to annihilate them. Every hour, 3 more species who we share this planet with become extinct due to our over population (competition for space) and our greed. http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?ID=6429&Method=Full And guess what people? I hate to go Mr. Wizard on you, but the continuation of our species here on this planet depends upon the continuation of every other species who we share this planet with. We are all part of an ecological chain, whether we like it or not.

[awoke_in_2003]

46. The earth is overpopulated...

but the answer should be education and access to free, and voluntary, birth control. Most teen pregnancies are not a choice, but an accident.

[ForeignandDomestic]

53. There..

Is nothing wrong with education and access to VOLUNTARY birth control, if the earth is overpopulated then those most concerned need to start with themselves. No one has that RIGHT to force eugenics and sterilization on whole populations of people.

Like ie: Africa who has always been the apple of the eye of every eugenist.

[awoke_in_2003]

57. When anyone brings up overpopulation...

you go right for the eugenics angle. That is why I responded the way I did. As to Africa, they could definitely use education and access to birth control, especially with the AIDS situation they have. And neither I, nor any other poster I have seen, condone forced sterilizations and birth control.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

59. thankyou for that! FandD appears to be a troll.

accusing those not in agreeance with him of being eugenicists. Waving the "The Creator" banner, and whacking us with it.

Feh.

[ForeignandDomestic]

64. Well maybe you should pay more attention befroe feeling the need to comment.

"But financial penalties - no tax breaks for more than two kids unless adopted."

How are the poor not dispositionally affected by these penalties. Similar to the poll tax of the Jom Crow era, everyone had to pay, but the poor were more affected by this tax than any other group and the establishment got what they desired as result.

You may not want to call yourselves eugenist but the outcome of you proposal will lead to the same outcome.

[awoke_in_2003]

68. My proposal?...

When did I ever propose such a thing?

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. Ironically, I benefitted from state sterilization mentality.

In the late 1960's, when I was a young married mother with 2 toddlers, I wanted to get permanent birth control.
Turns out, a married woman had to jump thru impossible hoops to get sterilized.
Her age plus the number of her children had to total over 120 points ( that eliminated most women right there)
she had to have husband's written consent
she had to get exam and approval from TWO psychiatrists and one gyn doc.

A man could get sterilzed anytime he wanted to, no problem.Wife did not even have to KNOW he did it.

Fast forward a couple years, I had divorced the spouse, and went on welfare with my 2 kids.
Welfare cheerfully sent me off to the hospital to get my tubes tied when I asked them to do it.
No fuss, no questions, nothing. Completely and promptly free of charge, too.
In my case, a questionable practice had a silver lining.

[RC]

12. In your case, think of it as a sample of what Universal Health Care would be like.

Assuming we had some, of course, instead of some inadvertent crumbs, such as you received.
This country has a long ways to go to even approach anything close to equality.

[dixiegrrrrl]

18. Another factor in that scenario....

back then...1960's, early 1970's....health care was affordable.
We paid for the kid's shots, minor cuts and etc out of pocket.
We even could afford the pay hospital for birth of #2 son ( #1 was born while we were in military).
Insurance was not that common, and a working man on a blue collar job could support a family.
Running up debts was not considered a good thing, but saving money for emergencies was, and it was possible.

[alp227]

78. Reminds me of Jane Roe's story,

because back then abortions were only for rape/incest victims.

[dixiegrrrrl]

79. My Grandmother shocked the whole family when she revealed she had had abortions

in the 1930's. And she had 8 live births.
And I know my mother had at least one abortion in the early 1960's...poor woman, it was illegal and shameful, she went to great lengths to keep it quiet, I found out by accident years later, after she died.
Must have been so scary, so unpleasant.
Lousy birth control, public condemnation for having an out of wedlock baby, and having a "change of life" baby was almost as bad.
My Grandmother's last son was born 6 months before I was born, so she was in her mid-40's...could not have been easy.physically, for her.

Not to mention how tense sex was....when you could never be 100% certain you were free from getting pregnant each time.

I am surprised the American Taliban have not tried to eliminate birth control.
Maybe that is next.

[alp227]

77. if you tried to read the comments section after this article,

you'd think that the USA has turned into Nazi Germany. Comments that CHEERED the sterilizations got the most upvotes!

[think]

5. Heartbreaking

And I mean that with all sincerity. This is abominable...

[Orrex]

9. To be fair, I'm sure that one-percenters get forcibly sterilized all the time.

[awoke_in_2003]

47. Shout out to Orrex's sig line. nt

[ForgoTheConsequence]

11. Forced sterilizations, within the last decade?

And people wonder why I'm not so quick to throw stone at other countries for their human rights abuses.



California has a very dark history with eugenics.

California's movement was so effective that in the 1930s, members of the Nazi party asked California eugenicists for advice on how to run their own sterilization program.
"Germany used California's program as its chief example that this was a working, successful policy," Cogdell said. "They modeled their law on California's law."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/california-forced-sterilizations

[whopis01]

72. Where does it say that they were forced? n/t

[ForgoTheConsequence]

80. They were illegally coerced.

The point of this article is that the doctors skipped over the steps they were suppose to take to prevent coercion.

When you have someone held prisoner they're at the mercy of the doctors.

“Do I criticize those women for manipulating the system because they’re pregnant? Absolutely not,” Martin, 73, said. “But I don’t think it should happen. And I’d like to find ways to decrease that.”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/07/08/california_prisons_have_been_illegally_sterilizing_female_inmates.html

[BlancheSplanchnik]

20. I think EVERYONE should get sterilized after 2nd kid

Incentives for getting sterilized after one

Bigger incentives for getting sterilized and remaining childfree.


But then, I favor extreme measures to get the population down in order to preserve the planet (Sterilization is a lot less egregious than wars, which in the end, serve the same purpose--reduce population. i.e. Wars over resources).

And, I like animals and plants better than people, so.....

[RILib]

23. not forced

but financial penalties - no tax breaks for more than two kids unless adopted.

The good news is I believe the U.S. birth rate is dropping below the replacement level. I just grubbed around the web and the birth rate is 1-3 for almost every place except most of Africa, where it is much higher, but where I assume the mortality rate is very high:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate

I am not understanding how this feeds into the projected large increase in world population I always hear about. Ex how is China's population increasing with a birth rate of 1.55?

So I looked it up, there is a delay before the population stabilizes and starts dropping, which is projected to happen for China. India, on the other hand, is breeding people like rabbits:

http://geography.about.com/od/chinamaps/a/China-One-Child-Policy-Facts.htm

[BlancheSplanchnik]

25. financial penalities and incentives would be really good.

I saw headlines recently showing that population numbers are actually RISING, contrary to belief that they had started to fall. Sorry I don't have the link, not up for searching. You could probably search it, if you want.

The whole subject makes me so angry. Babeez babeez babeeeeeeeeeez. Puke.

[ForeignandDomestic]

28. But...

But you were once a babeez? Do regret being born seeing how you view it as a negative for this planet?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

32. who we are now is not who we were

you once sat in your own shit. Do you still? That's how useful your "argument" is.

I hate you people who just can't permit anyone to speak who isn't soppy and soggy about babeez.

Do you think everyone should just continue on this path of relentlessly spurting them out? Don't you think some voices for moderation need to come to the fore?



"Do regret being born seeing how you view it as a negative for this planet?" <---what lame bullshit. I've heard this exact comment from so many Fetus Fetishists.

Why don't you go harass women at the health clinic?

[ForeignandDomestic]

37. It seems

you have the issue with women at the health clinic, especially if they are expecting and about to "spurt them out" as you say.

You're not moderate at all if you have a problem with babeez then you can moderately not have any.

You have no right to extremely tell someone else when and how they can procreate, a right given to them by their Creator not by YOU!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

44. Religious Browbeating. Fail.

I have every right to dislike babies. You don't get to dictate. Troll.

Also, overpopulation kills.


Your arguments are fallacious, 'fallacy' being incorrect argument in logic and rhetoric resulting in a lack of validity, or more generally, a lack of soundness.


Aren't your Birthright buddies missing you by now? (BirthRight/Crisis Pregnancy Centers--noted for deceptive advertising, manipulating women with fear, and pushing religious extremism. CPCs have been reported to disseminate false medical information, usually but not exclusively about the supposed health risks and mental health risks of abortion.
CPCs are typically run by pro-life Christians according to a conservative Christian philosophy, and they often operate in affiliation with one of three non-profit organizations: Care Net, Heartbeat International, and Birthright International.)

[awoke_in_2003]

49. That one has typical republican...

Black/white thinking. If you endorse birth control and education you must be into eugenics

[ForeignandDomestic]

52. I have every right to dislike babies. You don't get to dictate. Troll.

I'm a dictator because I don't women sterilized against their will?

I'm what neither you nor the Right wingers are; I'm actually pro-choice meaning it's human beings natural right to decide whether they do or don't want to bring forth offsprings.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

58. Another Logic Fail--putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

I did not say I support sterilization against will.

My ideal is no more than two kids per family, and preferably one or none.

I support meaningful incentives toward that end.


But you pounce on me for expressing my individual preference. I don't like babeez. That doesn't mean I think everyone should feel the same.

I have seen you posting other tripe about the Creator, and population numbers being meaningless because the Earth can support more and more and more........

You're not operating in reality world, my friend.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

63. Thank you for putting your bullshit so clearly on display.

And accusing me of being a eugenist.


I don't need to say anything further.

[ForeignandDomestic]

65. You know what they say...

If it walks like a duck....

[Kolesar]

67. Welllll, that is going to HAVE to be your last word

post 61, IIRC
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: There is more than one post in this thread that needs hiding, but since I can't hide all of them, I don't see the point of just hiding this one.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Hope TOS was checked.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Called Blanche a "eugenist". I suspect he is a religio-styled-troll. The weight of his previous comments suggests that he is here to fight.
--
Tell me more about the TOS box

[ForeignandDomestic]

55. Here is some religious browbeating for ya..

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--

[BlancheSplanchnik]

62. so what? You're ascribing intentions to "The Creator" and attempting to strong-arm

us with your mythology.

and you're shifting the subject, appealing to religion and other unrelated topics.

Will you puh-leeeeze study some Critical Argument materials before bothering us any further?

[Ilsa]

50. Just because you have a right doesn't mean exercising it

is always the best option.

I may have the right to have as many kids as I can possibly bear, but that doesn't mean it's the smart thing for my body, my pocketbook, my career, my sanity, or my planet.

There's a reason that most women wanted safe birth control developed in the last century. They wanted better control over how many and when because it affected their marriages and finances, among other things.

There's no reason for society to push this idea that everyone needs to be parents, either.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

56. thank you!

[nomorenomore08]

81. Overpopulation is more of a potential issue in the developed world anyway, due to per capita

resource usage. Which isn't to say we shouldn't be encouraging people to have smaller families everywhere - we should - but I feel it's more urgent in wealthier countries where people consume more "stuff" (including, obviously, fossil fuels).

[Ash_F]

34. OK but that is not what happens with these programs.

They always target specific groups. And are racially motivated.

[ForeignandDomestic]

40. Exactly..

When you peel through the BS eugenics has always been racially motivated!

When you read the works of Sir Francis Galton and early eugenics pioneers they were talking about the Earth already being overpopulated in the late 1800's and early 1900's.

Behind the fluff there is a sinister agenda period!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

66. that's why I said "everybody" in caps.

I know it's just a silly thought.

I just wish we would get serious about facing the population problem, that's all. I've never liked Pro-Natalism and the over-romanticization of breeding.

[Cal Carpenter]

73. Extreme measures is an understatement

[BlancheSplanchnik]

74. puke if you must..

Totally your right.
I didn't mean forced sterilization, though I was feeling very crabby and just dumped my feelings in the moment.

I puke at the ever increasing proliferation of roads, parking lots, housing developments, strip malls, land fills, destruction of equatorial rain forest to serve human needs...etcetera etcetera etcetera.

I puke at the ever increasing congestion of human population, resource depletion, habitat destruction, extinctions of plant and animal species.

Seems those issues will cause a lot more suffering than the angst of social encouragements to breed less.

If someone loves kids so much, why not adopt rather than create more?

[Quantess]

21. Does the article say that anyone was forced into the procedure?

I am not seeing that part.

[leftyohiolib]

24. article says they were coerced

The women were signed up for the surgery while they were pregnant and housed at either the California Institution for Women in Corona or Valley State Prison for Women in Chowchilla, which is now a men's prison.
Former inmates and prisoner advocates maintain that prison medical staff coerced the women, targeting those deemed likely to return to prison in the future.

probably made to sign something that either did or didnt have the t.l. in it

[cali]

30. but it also says that women refused it. definitely coersion involved but

also women who refused the procedure.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

22. Oh sure, lets end the "cycle of dependence".

[Lasher]

26. "without required state approvals"

The misleading headline makes it initially seem that inmates are being sterilized without their consent. Then in the article the author wants us to believe these women are being coerced into submission, and that the practice is common. His argument is not compelling. The decision should be between each woman and her doctor, without interference from "required state approvals" or anyone else.

[arcane1]

27. Thank you, for reading the actual article.

[Lasher]

41. I suspect journalistic ju-jitsu

The author seems to be advocating women's rights, when it appears that his motive is to do the opposite. Just my opinion. I find comfort in knowing my suspicion is shared by some.

[Ilsa]

43. I agree. There are women

who want their tubes tied when their family is complete, and that option should be available to them if they are having C-sections while in prison, without the state sticking its nose into her Fallopian tubes. Trying to do it when there is no pregnancy and delivery by c-section is an extraordinary medical risk to take, and expensive.

A lot of handwringing on DU here, without all of the facts and numbers being known. I'm waiting for the population control DUers to jump in. They normally criticize couples who opt to have large families even if they can afford to have them. Here we have drug abusers who could give birth to sick babies opting out of having more kids. I think that's a good thing, as long as there is no coercion.

[kestrel91316]

38. I care not one whit about "state approval" of medical procedures involving women's

ladyparts. All I care is that the woman involved gave her informed consent without duress.

[Ron Quixote]

39. That's messed up

That's a violation of women's human rights.

[tomm2thumbs]

51. most telling part of what I read

(Heinrich) described the $147,460 total as minimal.

"Over a 10-year period, that isn't a huge amount of money," Heinrich said, "compared to what you save in welfare paying for these unwanted children – as they procreated more."


____

Sure does sound like someone on a personal mission...

[Raven]

54. I had clients in Alabama in the early '70s who had that done to them.

I thought things had changed.

[Tumbulu]

69. Offered free tubal ligation

Is very different from forced sterilization. I am glad it was offerered and sorry if anyone was pressured. But it should be offerered free of charge and as the article stated many pregnant poor women only got arrested so that they would have their births covered medically. Why not offer it?

[cstanleytech]

71. Wow, those doctors should have their licenses to practice stripped for life imo. nt

[Sgent]

75. For what?

at worst this seems to be billing fraud as the doctor didn't get prior approval from the prison system before performing the tubal ligation.

From the article it looks like the doctors gave women having c-sections the option to have their tubes tied -- which is standard medical practice. The only reason this made the news is because the doctor didn't report his conversation to the state and get permission from CA to perform the procedure. There is no allegation of not obtaining consent.