.Panama Seizes North Korean Ship.

[elleng]

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: nyt/ap

Panama's president says on his Twitter account that authorities have seized a North Korean-flagged ship traveling from Cuba with "undeclared military cargo."

President Ricardo Martinelli offered no details but posted a photo of what appeared to be a green tubular object sitting inside a cargo container or the ship's hold.

Panamanian officials verified the tweet was authentic but did not immediately respond to requests for further details.

UPDATE: The Panamanian authorities impounded a rusting North Korean freighter on a voyage from Cuba toward the Panama Canal and back to its home country, and said the ship was carrying missile system components cloaked in a cargo of sugar. The arms would appear to represent a significant violation of United Nations sanctions imposed on North Korea. . .

In an e-mailed statement, IHS Jane’s Intelligence, the defense consulting firm, said it had identified the equipment shown in the images of the seized cargo as an RSN-75 “Fan Song” fire control radar for the SA-2 family of surface-to-air missiles.

“One possibility is that Cuba could be sending the system to North Korea for an upgrade,” it said. “In this case, it would likely be returned to Cuba and the cargo of sugar could be a payment for the services.”

But IHS Jane’s added that the fire control radar equipment could also have been en route to North Korea to augment North Korea’s air defense network, which it said was based on obsolete weapons, missiles and radars.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/world/americas/panama-seizes-north-korea-flagged-ship-for-weapons.html?pagewanted=1&hp



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/07/16/world/americas/ap-lt-panama-ship-seized.html?hp

[WheelWalker]

1. Kick

[NYC_SKP]

2. Here are those green tubular objects:

:large

From Presidente Martinelli's twitter here: https://twitter.com/rmartinelli

[WheelWalker]

4. Looks conclusively tubular to me...

"tube alloys" ?

[Berlum]

7. ...strangely evil Tubular Sounds coming from ship's hold

[ForgoTheConsequence]

3. Captain tried to kill himself.

....

[Lurks Often]

10. Probably thought that was a better choice then the rest of his life in a labor camp

or whatever punishment the NK government was going to inflict on him for allowing the ship to be searched and seized

[geek tragedy]

12. More likely his family. Desertion/turning infgrmant would be such an attractive

option that they doubtlessly have leverage on him back home.

[trusty elf]

5. "We've gotta stand with our North Korean allies."

[IMG][/IMG]

[DeSwiss]

6. ''Green tubular object?''

- Comme ça?

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. President calls it "sophisticated missile equipment"

Panama has seized a North Korean ship carrying a cargo of undeclared “sophisticated missile equipment”, according to the country’s president.

Ricardo Martinelli told local media that the ship had been travelling towards the Panama Canal from Cuba when it was stopped by authorities and searched. Items believed to be weapons were subsequently found on board, hidden in containers of brown sugar.

Mr Martinelli also took to Twitter to share images of the large green objects he says are suspected weapons.

According to the president, the captain of the North Korean vessel attempted to kill himself during the raid, which occurred as part of a routine drugs search on ships approaching the Panama Canal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korean-ship-carrying-sophisticated-missile-equipment-held-by-panama-shortly-after-vessel-left-cuba-8710530.html

[DallasNE]

9. Russia - North Korea Connection

Is the one that counts. Cuba is likely just a depot for these arms shipments that have to be sanctioned by Putin. Not sure why Russia just doesn't ship the stuff from an east coast port directly to North Korea rather than 3/4 of the way around the world.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Or, indeed, across their common land border

Really, it's silly to say this is about Russia.

[hughee99]

14. Perhaps it's because people are watching that border closely.

The shell game is to make it more difficult to track the shipments. Russian ships travel to Cuba often and drop off cargo (and pick some up). NK ships also have trade in Cuba. It's a shell game.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Yes, the easy way to send something from Russia to North Korea

would be 3/4 of the way round the world, through a canal that is subject to searches by another country (and which is quite influenced by the USA), rather than just taking it across a border the 2 countries control, or from one port to another on the same coast. I mean, that border is so impermeable that they're reconstructing a railway across it. Clearly, Russia spends all its time trying to make it look like it has no trade with North Korea, doesn't it?

[hughee99]

16. Do you know where the "tubes" originally came from?

That's the point. It's not that they're looking to save on shipping costs. They can ship whatever they want across the border. Later, if Russia tries to claim they have no idea how NK got this sort of equipment, I'm sure they'll be 2 or 3 countries willing to show them pictures of the train that carried them from Russia.

I'm sure plenty of ships go from NK to Cuba. THIS one got stopped. Why? Because someone knew what was on it. The same thing can happen in a shipment right over the border from Russia to NK, but in that case, it's a lot harder for Russia to pretend they had nothing to do with it or no knowledge of it. They do it for the same reason the wealthy people and criminals route money through many different countries, accounts or business before it ends up in some offshore tax haven. To obscure the origin of the money and make it harder for others to follow.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. How would Panama, or the USA, stop a shipment from Russia to North Korea at the border?

They couldn't. They don't. No satellite could prove what was in a container. You are supposing that Russia is involved, and that it went to great lengths (literally) to use a risky way to send something to North Korea, when it would have had a foolproof method of doing it undetected.

[hughee99]

18. I didn't say anyone could stop the shipment.

That's not the issue. If Russia gets caught shipping nuclear equipment or ballistic missile parts to NK, that's a big problem for Russia, and not just between the US and Russia, but China and Russia too. One that they don't want to deal with.

You are suggesting that shipping things over land from Russia to NK is fool-proof and undetectable and then suggesting that I'm the one with the wild theory?

I'm pretty sure if this was missile or nuclear tech, it didn't originate in Cuba. It came from somewhere else (yes, I'm supposing it's Russia) and the only reason to ship it through Cuba I can see is to obscure it's origins.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. No, you did say that

"THIS one got stopped. Why? Because someone knew what was on it. The same thing can happen in a shipment right over the border from Russia to NK"

"You are suggesting that shipping things over land from Russia to NK is fool-proof and undetectable and then suggesting that I'm the one with the wild theory"

Well, yes. Obviously. If Russia and and North Korea want to send something from one country to the other, they can do it, without showing it to other countries. It's not a UN-controlled border. So, yes, your theory is wild.

[hughee99]

25. I didn't suggest that anyone could stop a shipment from Russia to NK over land.

That's what I was referring to. There is active shipping from Russia to Cuba and from NK to Cuba. But it's much more difficult to tell if Russia shipped something to Cuba, let it sit there for some period of time, and then a NK freighter picked it up and brought it to NK. If you load something on a train in Russia and send it to NK, you can't hide the shipment. You can't argue that it didn't come from Russia and wasn't intended for NK. Just because there's not UN guards at the boarder doesn't mean the US, China and perhaps one or two other interested parties don't know what's being shipped and when. That's what the spies and satellites are for. The Russia/NK boarder isn't all that difficult to monitor. It's a very short, lightly traveled border that requires a river crossing.

And as far ask the risk, what would be the greater risk to Russia? Losing a replaceable shipment or having to deal with the political fallout of getting caught red handed supplying NK with something that even China and US agree they shouldn't have.

Just to clarify, it was the poster above that speculated it was Russia, not me. I took up the defense after you suggested a Russian connection was silly. I still don't see any reason to disqualify Russia unless there's some high tech defense industry in Cuba exporting controlled technology to NK that I'm not aware of.

[eppur_se_muova]

22. Stated destination was Cuba, according to BBC; ship was RETURNING with "cargo".

Chong Chon Gang's route
17 April: Departs port of Vostochnyy, Nakhodka in Russian Far East (200km east of North Korean border)
31 May: Arrives at Pacific side of Panama Canal
1 June: Passes through Panama Canal
11 July: Arrives back at Panamanian port of Manzanillo
12 July: Ship searched
16 July: Panama announces its discovery

Russia may have had nothing to do with it; sounds like they picked these up in Cuba -- or maybe somewhere else in the Caribbean. They were traveling with transponder turned off, so only satellite photos can confirm the ship's true route.

[eppur_se_muova]

24. These may have been picked up in Cuba; found on return leg of journey

Chong Chon Gang's route
17 April: Departs port of Vostochnyy, Nakhodka in Russian Far East (200km east of North Korean border)
31 May: Arrives at Pacific side of Panama Canal
1 June: Passes through Panama Canal
11 July: Arrives back at Panamanian port of Manzanillo
12 July: Ship searched
16 July: Panama announces its discovery

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23324170

[hughee99]

26. A possibility. I wasn't aware of the timeline after my original post.

I still contend that countries who want to send things somewhere while obscuring the original source would likely use a "middle man" to do this. I don't see any reason to believe that couldn't be the case here, although more information could clarify that.

[DallasNE]

27. Thanks

Once again it takes a foreign source to get the news.

With the UN sanctions, I'm sure Russia can't make a land shipment of contraband to North Korea because of UN monitors in place to assure such things don't happen.

Russia must think it is also too risky to make a short shipment by sea from Vostochny to a North Korean port. Now that they have these tubes they should be able to trace the origin.

[Scurrilous]

13. K & R

[Comrade Grumpy]

19. This is odd. Where did this cargo come from? Where was it going?

It appears to be headed toward North Korea from Cuba.

Is it North Korean arms exports or imports?

[dipsydoodle]

20. Last port of call seems to have been Cuba

but whether the tubes came from there and what they are has yet to be made clear.

[joshcryer]

30. Cuba says they were being sent to NK for repairs / upgrades.

[eppur_se_muova]

23. more info from BBC: Origin, Russian far East, destination Cuba

***
The ship, the Chong Chon Gang, was stopped near Manzanillo on the Atlantic side of the canal last week.

It had left Russia's far east in April and travelled across the Pacific Ocean before entering the canal at the start of June, with Cuba as its stated destination.

The ship had crossed the Pacific without its automatic tracking system switched on - a move described by the BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner as highly suspicious.

Panama's Security Minister Jose Raul Mulino told the BBC that the ship - carrying 250,000 bags of sugar - was seized on 10 July after a tip-off that it was linked to drugs, but the "resistance and violence from the crew" delayed the search.

He said the suspected weaponry was found in two containers and did not rule out further "surprises" as the search of the ship continues.
***
more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23324170

[geek tragedy]

28. How would a North Korean ship running between Russia and Cuba not expect

to be searched? The only port of call missing was Bandar Abbas.

[joshcryer]

31. Arrogance or desparation.

Given Cuba's response, I'm thinking arrogance.

[EX500rider]

29. Janes says appears to be parts for a SA-2 missile system..

....they think either being sold by Cuba to them or sent there for upgrades and the sugar was payment.

[happyslug]

32. SA-2? The missle that shot down Gary Powers in 1960?

NATO called in the SA-2, the Actual name was S-75 Dvina:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=334

Sorry, it is of the same age and technology as American Nike Missles (Nike Hercules was introduced in 1959 and withdrawn in 1988, SA-2 is similar to the Older Nike-Ajax, which was introduced in 1954 and replaced by the Nike Hercules starting in 1959).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-14_Nike-Hercules


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-3_Nike_Ajax#After_Ajax

The SA-2 was considered a very good high attitude anti aircraft missile. It forced the Israelis in the 1973 Yom Kipper war to fly low, thus opening them up to short range AA fire from anything from Ak-47s up to 23mm AA cannon. Above in the Wikipedia site it states the US "solved" the problem of the SA-2 during the Attacks on Hanoi in 1972. It does not say how (US tactics on Soviet Missiles is similar to what it did in Desert Storm, hit the radars sites early, in Desert storms this was done by Apache Helicopters, in Vietnam the US apparently bombed the SA-2 sites with fighter bombers coming in low below the SA-2's radar destroying them before the B-52s came within range, hitting both the launch sites and any alternative launch sites, and kept them being bombed till the B-52s had drop their load and gone home, an expensive but effective tactic).

The SA-2 is a decent missile in today's service, no longer first string as it was when it shot down Gary Power in 1960, but an adequate defensive weapon.

As to the MIG-21, another relic of the 1950s that in well trained capable hands can still be a threat, but again not first string.