Sequestered Zimmerman trial jurors had alone time with family during trial
Source: WFTV
SANFORD, Fla. — The six women who acquitted George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin's killing were sequestered during the trial, but Channel 9 learned those jurors were allowed hours of time alone with friends and family.
Channel 9's Kathi Belich confirmed the jurors were left unsupervised with guests at times, which WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said is more than enough time for a member to have said something that could have influenced a juror and possibly impacted the verdict.
The Seminole County Sheriff's Office said Judge Debra Nelson allowed jurors generally no more than two hours of alone time with visitors once a week.
Nelson didn't decide until three days into the trial to sequester the jury after potential jurors voiced concerns about their privacy and safety.
Channel 9 obtained the agreement the judge had all of the jurors' visitors sign in which they agreed "the case or anything even remotely related to the case must not be talked about."
Sheaffer said allowing sequestered jurors to have unsupervised visits invites criticism and questions over the integrity of the verdict.
"It only takes two seconds for an inappropriate comment to be made to a juror by a family member inadvertently or otherwise to possibly affect the verdict, how they look at the case," Sheaffer said.
Read more: http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/zimmerman-trial-jurors-had-alone-time-family-durin/nYwNG/
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JI7
(93,561 posts)
Ruby the Liberal
(26,651 posts)And his "opinion" being shared with what is apparently a woman without the requisite critical thinking skills capable of tying her own shoes without assistance.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)There is no doubt now that this trial was poisoned a long time ago.
I think the verdict and the whole case can be thrown out now due to jury tampering.
premium
(3,731 posts)for an appellate court to overturn a not guilty verdict, it would have to be proven that either the defendant or his lawyers were directly involved in corrupting the jury process, where's the proof of this?
There is absolutely no proof of any jury tampering by the defense, the verdict will not be overturned.
And there's no proof of jury tampering at all, just supposition here.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)One of John Gotti's early trials and "not guilty" verdicts were thrown out due to jury tampering.
You'll just have to wait for the system to catch up to the news.
premium
(3,731 posts)I've searched all over the internet and I can't find anything about a Gotti not guilty verdict overturned, I found a guilty verdict overturned.
If he had a not guilty verdict overturned, it was because he or his lawyers were directly involved in jury misconduct.
That is the only way a not guilty verdict can me set aside, is if the defense is directly involved in the corruption of the jury.
You may not like it, but it's fact.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)So is Trayvon Martin.
You may not like it, but it's a fact!!!!
premium
(3,731 posts)Gotti had a not guilty verdict set aside, right?
Here's a link to what constitutes Double Jeopardy.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Double+Jeopardy
You are 100% wrong about the courts setting aside the not guilty verdict.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I don't manage Google.
Boo-yah!!!
premium
(3,731 posts)You can't provide a link because it didn't happen.
Once again, the only way a not guilty verdict will be set aside and a new trial ordered is if the defendant or his lawyers are involved in the corruption of the judicial system, where's the proof?
Kennah
(14,578 posts)http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/138/302/473725/
Couldn't find where Supreme Court ruled on this, so I'm presuming they refused to grant cert and allowed the 7th Circuit ruling to stand.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)proceeding...
This thing was a Kangaroo Court...Show trial only because they were goaded into holding one....For shame Sanford Florida.
JI7
(93,561 posts)to really look into it. maybe in some years when some of these people are old and dying they will talk. especially the bs at the police deptarment.
how the whole thing was such an injustice with corrupt racist officials.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)just wow ... well said btw.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)true!!! man what a sham. I called it a sham at the beginning and it's proving to be just that. This is some banana republic bullshit. Defense, prosecution, jury and not the least judge. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that they're all related somehow. Fuck Sanford.
nenagh
(1,925 posts)in the Courtroom for part of the trial...
O'Meara explained that when Mrs. Zim was not allowed to stay in the Courtroom during the trial, she asked this friend, a defense witness to stay in Court and keep George company.
The witness was in the Courtroom on all of day one and half of day two..that is on day 2, as they broke for lunch, Don West saw the witness and told him to leave and not come back.
The Judge then reviewed what was presented during those hours..and decided that the damaging testimony started after the lunch when the man was no longer in the Courtroom.
I think the Judge decided to let it go as he had not viewed pertinent testimony, etc,
I was very disappointed..I wanted fireworks and the witness disgraced, just didnt happen.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)at both the city and county level of government... from the Sanford police, to the county prosecutors, and the judge. Unsupervised visits with sequestered jurors? Just takes my breath away...
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)For example, here is from the missouri courts website:
http://www.courts.mo.gov/hosted/resourcecenter/TJCB%20Published%20April%208.2011/CH_06_JurySeq_files/CH_06_JurySeq.htm
5. If the trial is going to be over a couple of days, some judges make arrangements for the jurors to have contact with their family in the evening. This will go a long way in keeping the jury's mood positive. This often can be done by arranging for a couple of hours where jurors may visit with their family at the hotel. The deputies should meet with the visitors prior to contact and instruct them they are not to ask the juror about the trial or discuss the case. Some judges provide that the deputies do not have to be present during the visit, but the jurors must always be under the supervision and custody of the deputies. See State v. Leisure, 810 S.W.2d 560 (Mo. App. 1991).
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)the jurors should have had supervised visits only.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)It's just not that out of the ordinary.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Yeah, the system worked perfectly. 
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)
frylock
(34,825 posts)taaffe called it 5-1 for acquittal. that juror knows GZ. fucking bank it.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)When does THAT ever happen.....
madaboutharry
(42,032 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)demeanor on a police detective who was testifying on the stand. I sure would like to see videos of him on the stand in other cases. I bet his demeanor would be way more assertive and a whole lot less of a 'bent-to-the-side-bowed-head-under-the-brow-submissive-glances' look.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)morally corrupt, and trying to cover their asses.
alsame
(7,784 posts)had to cover their asses for the way they handled the shooting. No arrest, no securing the crime scene for evidence, no canvassing of potential witness. They believed GZ and let him go. They didn't even bother to try to identify the victim even though his cell phone was there, they sent him to the morgue as a John Doe.
The only way to justify all this was to say they 100% believed Georgie.
you know all during the trial these points were brought up, NONE of the Zimpig supporters/apologists would address this John Doe disrespect. Not one called any of the authorities out on this fact. Very telling I'd say. geez
montanacowboy
(6,710 posts)didn't Taffee tell this to Fox News? 5-1 to acquit? I lost it when I heard that, and said how the hell did he know that? Now we know. What the hell is the good of sequestration if they get to fraternize with outside influence??
What did the State of Fla pay $33000 for besides pedicures and manicures and dinner out?
Jezus H Christ this gets worse by the day
24601
(4,139 posts)"The woman, known as Juror B37, told CNN's Anderson Cooper that when the jury began deliberations Friday, they took an initial vote. Three jurors -- including B37 -- were in favor of acquittal, two supported manslaughter and one backed second-degree murder.."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57593887/zimmerman-juror-half-of-us-at-first-voted-to-convict/
alsame
(7,784 posts)juror who was the holdout threatened to leave.
DinahMoeHum
(23,591 posts). . .that shit should result in a MISTRIAL, even when a verdict has been reached.
The Seminole County sheriff's office has some 'splainin' to do.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Some of the instructions have been posted here on DU and there was no way for them to find him guilty of anything.
The judge was very specific, had made up her mind that SYG law had cleared Z not matter what!
See this brief clip with that here:
Thom Hartmann: Media Ignoring a Shocking Fact about Trayvon & Zimmerman
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017132740
So much wrong here, it makes me feel bitter although some may say I don't have a right to be.
hack89
(39,181 posts)it was not Z's fault. There could be sanctions on the prosecutor and judge but there will not be a second trial.
much as I hate too, I have to agree on that point only. Zimpig did no jury tampering. His 'friends' on the jury, behind he bench and out in the field made sure he'd walk.
premium
(3,731 posts)is if the defendant is directly involved in the corruption of the trial resulting in a false verdict.
There is absolutely no evidence of Zimmerman or his attorney's being involved in anything like that.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)It is possible the allegedly untainted ajurors never heard a word about this trial during the intense media coverage on cable or broadcast television, radio or internet for months. But I don't think that was the case, nor did I think that no one in their community talked about it either. That's magic thinking, it's not like these women were totally removed from the world. Nope. Uh-huh.
My main problem is with the Judge; what she did and didn't allow, and those instructions.
She allowed Trayon's social networking history into the trial and his school record and blood analysis; she did not let the prosecution enter Z's long record of arrests and charging sheets, nor his disgusting social network posts that would have gone a long way to prove what the prosecution tried to prove as to intent using Florida law term that guilt required 'a depraved heart.'
If his criminal record, which is quite ugly isn't proof a thug mentality, IDK what is. And we've read that SYG was not going to be in play, just simple self-defense; what I've seen posted shows the judge was very specific that he could not be convicted due to that law.
Nowhere is Trayvon given the equal right ot stand his ground with fists, feet or anything else after having been followed, stalked, and stopped from running or going on his way by Zimmerman. Nowhere.
We may not find direct acts of jury corruption, but it is so close with poor sequestration in a case that could have been sent Z to prison for many years could make one think that it was a possibility in such a high-profile case.
And the judge's instructions give no room to convict. A dog could see that. As to the point you bring here, I am very well aware of that aspect of a mistrial. There may be others, such as a corrupted judge, that should come into play.
Whatever is done to Z or them won't bring this young man back, who was menaced by a stranger and killed. I think everyone should strip away all identifying factors. The actions were stalking and murder.
I will never accept an arrogant sense of entitlement Z showed by getting out of that car, never find him guilty of anything less than manslaughter. It would have been a hung jury, no amount of bullying could have taken that fact away from me.
If the judge didn't like my not going along, fine, pull another juror in to give her the verdict she clearly enjoyed getting, as she was all grins and giggles when the verdict came in. Or declare a mistrial because the jury was hung. By someone who didn't buy into the armed privilege routine.
Out of the car - unnecessarily - vigilantism. And Trayvon was not caught in the act of doing anything but going home with a soda and bag of Skittles for his younger brother at his home. The only way that is a crime is if walking while black is still a crime in this country.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)won't 'splain', long as they can get way with it.
skeewee08
(1,983 posts)
Dawson Leery
(19,566 posts)Boycott Sanford Florida.
enough
(13,755 posts)lawyers in the same town where the defense attorney is the head of the local chapter of the ABA?
AllINeedIsCoffee
(772 posts)indicted and loaded into a paddy wagon?
mzmolly
(52,784 posts)Zimmerman in spite if it all. Sigh.
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)if or course the feds can find evidence that he violated a federal law.
mzmolly
(52,784 posts) 
Spazito
(55,433 posts)Allowing two hours of UNSUPERVISED time with family AND friends is not sequestration. It certainly explains the rapid access to the high ranking producer of a morning show, the securing of a book deal by juror B37 and her attorney husband.
I am not beginning to give credence to the loudmouth blowhard, Taaffe, who said he had an inside source who told him it was 5 - 1 for not guilty hours before the verdict came down.
hack89
(39,181 posts)there is a post in this thread that shows at least one state allows short visits like this. Is it really not allowed?
Spazito
(55,433 posts)at least that is my issue.
Edited to add:
"All television, internet use, reading materials, mail, and phone calls were screened, monitored and logged by deputies to ensure jurors were not exposed to any trial information, or content related to the criminal justice system," the sheriff's office said. "Jurors were permitted to receive their cellphones once per day to check voice mails and make telephone calls in the presence of a deputy."
The monitored their cellphone voice mail, their phone calls but left them totally unsupervised during family AND friend visits.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/17/zimmerman-trayvon-martin-sanford-jury-seminole-county/2530283/
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)"Anyone visiting members of the jury were asked to sign an agreement indicating they would not discuss the case with the jury member."
Spazito
(55,433 posts)not in any way shape or form which is why I didn't include it in my excerpt but did include the link to the full article.
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)Now is there any proof that agreement was violated by any member of the jury then of course both parties should be held accountable but until such evidence appears all this is idle speculation fueled by anger that the jury didnt return a guilty verdict.
Oh and yes for the record I think the jury made the wrong call on the verdict but thats just my opinion.
Spazito
(55,433 posts)voice mail as well. Surely if the family and friends are to be trusted by signing something the jury should be yet that did not happen, they were screened, monitored and logged on everything EXCEPT the visits. They just logged the visits, nothing else.
Edited to correct e-mail to voice mail.
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)agree before leaving a message that they wouldnt leave one mentioning the case where as if say its a spouse wanting to visit them to say have sex for example they can get the spouse to sign the agreement not to discuss the case beforehand.
Spazito
(55,433 posts)so who else would know to call that juror to leave a voice mail about the case? That would be the same family and friends not trusted to leave an unmonitored voice mail but trusted to have a face to face visit without monitoring.
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)part of the reason for the sequester to prevent a reporter from doing that and trying to contact them thus tainting the jury.
Spazito
(55,433 posts)and the greater likelihood of a 'breach' with the visits not being monitored. I would contend the 'tainting' of the jury could more easily happen in a face to face unsupervised visit than a supervised one. They covered all the bases except for a very key one, imo.
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)They arent prisoners after all and they still have their rights.
Spazito
(55,433 posts)visits. It does, however, make the likelihood of a breach greater. I am in total agreement the jurors are not prisoners but their rights are severely limited while serving in order to protect the sanctity of the process. Sequestration/no sequestration is equally problematic, imo.
With no sequestration, there is a complete reliance on the honor of the jurors they will not talk about the case, search the internet, etc, as was the case in the Jodie Arias trial, another high profile case. I think there is a greater chance of a breach and trust is the dominant factor without sequestration.
Sequestration, which does make trying to protect the sanctity of the process easier, puts the jurors under added duress because they are away from their families and their rights severely restricted. The concern I have with sequestration is that the jury, once in deliberations will have the added pressure to come to a verdict more quickly in order to get their lives back.
I think I have come to believe no sequestration is a better way to go.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)there any proof it wasn't? So quick to come to the defense of a sham trial....geez
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)there any proof it was? So quick to come and attack because you didnt get the verdict you wanted...geez
did not get the verdict that was right. You zimpig supporters, you got what you wanted, so catch a cab.....geez
cstanleytech
(28,458 posts)that the jury made the wrong verdict imo and that they should have convicted him in multiple posts on this forum.
But the difference between us is I refuse to blind myself because while I disagree with the verdict I also understand why they made the verdict that they did and whining about it wont change the verdict.
The best most of us who want justice done here (and not revenge) is that somehow the feds are able to bring him to justice since the state failed.
JI7
(93,561 posts)Spazito
(55,433 posts)and the juror seemed confident she would not be asked any hard-ball questions and she was right. I am torn, though, regarding the Anderson Cooper interview because it did show her racial bias, her and her husband's greed and brought out that the jury, according to her anyway, couldn't understand the manslaughter jury instructions so decided to simply vote no guilty. I am glad we learned what we did through that interview.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)My god Florida is corrupt.
Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)serve on juries, the best way to do that is to make sure they're virtually imprisoned during such service.
No Vested Interest
(5,297 posts)Were these something like conjugal visits as some states allow?
warrior1
(12,325 posts)From the moment he stepped out of his father's door.
Justice for Trayvon.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)seems no one gave a shit about conducting a real trial because they knew what the outcome would be .
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)You can count on it.
premium
(3,731 posts)And please don't think that this would result in an overturning of a not guilty verdict like a couple of people here seem to think it will.
Seeking Serenity
(3,322 posts)DU demands a do-over! And again and again, if necessary, until we get the right verdict!
We must be appeased!
premium
(3,731 posts)Hilarious, ain't it. I was a FLEO for over 30 years and I've got people telling me that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
russspeakeasy
(6,539 posts)
don't think there is malfeasance and or corruption here? Did Trayvon get a fair hearing on his grievances? Just questions FLEO.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)Except for people wanting to come up with a reason for why the verdict didn't go their way.
Did Trayvon get a fair hearing on his grievances? I don't know what that means. That is not what a criminal trial is about.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)otherwise known as obfuscating bullshit. Catch a cab.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #95)
Post removed
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)What is the use of posting at all if one doesn't even address the issues at hand? Is there any value to anyone of any of your posts?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)there is no issue. Trayvon was murdered by this POS zimpig, you like the smell of this POS, so keep sniffing. That's it. Out and out murder was committed by this POS and he got off. What's the big deal. Judge, jury and executioner must be happy with themselves as must zimpg supporters be. No issue, just murder no matter what you might believe. Period.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)Where did you learn to insult like that? It's very mature.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)learned it by dealing with people like you for a long time. Sniff on, may karma catch up with your hero. 
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)People who believe Zimmerman should have been convicted of manslaughter, but now live in the world of reality and realize that the case is over and there is no use in grasping at straws?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)you're right. Keep sniffing. Should make a person like you be in nirvana.
premium
(3,731 posts)a FLEO is a Federal Law Enforcement Officer, which I was for over 30 years, and he got it wrong, again, I'm not an ex-FLEO, I'm a retired FLEO, there is a difference.
there was no malfeasance and or corruption here by the defense, no evidence whatsoever, if you think there was, provide the proof.
Trayvon Martin wasn't the defendant here, George Zimmerman was.
There will be no overturning of the not guilty verdict, hence, no new trial.
People need to quit grasping at unreachable straws here and except the reality here, distasteful as it is.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)I never will expect this verdict of not guilty will be overturned by a jury anywhere in that state. Zimpig got away with murder. Fact. The jury of his peers found otherwise? Fine. That boy zimpig is a POS and you like the smell. Have a good one, sniffing.
premium
(3,731 posts)it would be an appellate court or the FL. Supreme Court.
What's with the insults? Have I resorted to insulting you?
I guess this is the last gasp of someone who can't get their way so has to resort to name calling.
Whatever, you have a great day.
support of this murderer is an insult to me. I hope you have one too.
premium
(3,731 posts)I've been very consistent on my belief that he was guilty of Manslaughter but because of the ineptness of the prosecution, he was going to be acquitted, and, I was proven correct.
Now, there are people here who are grasping at straws with ridiculous theories that think the verdict is going to be overturned and all I'm doing is using my knowledge of the law to correct the mis-statements and suddenly, you're attacking me and anyone else you don't agree with by calling us zimpig supporters.
Dude, get a grip.
COLGATE4
(14,886 posts)People are grasping at any straw they can imagine (or invent) in order to somehow 'demonstrate' that the trial was flawed according to their expectations. Never mind little issues like Rules of Court, Rules of Evidence - it's obvious that the Judge was in on "it", the Prosecution was in on "it", the Defense was in on it, everyone was in on "it" (whatever the "it" de jour happens to be). Now, there should be a mistrial because the Judge permitted sequestered jurors to have some time with their families. Never mind that this isn't an uncommon practice. Somehow, somewhere there must be some reason to have a do-over.
Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #85)
Post removed
premium
(3,731 posts)isn't very popular and grounds to be labeled as a "zimpig supporter".
I really find it quite pathetic that's all certain posters have.
Doesn't matter, I've got a thick skin, I can take it.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)And if permitted by law I don't see the problem. I am sure there were guidelines.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)Something's rotten in Sanford ...
Aldo Leopold
(687 posts)Inept at the least.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)the start when police arrived on scene post shooting to this trial the whole incident has totally disrespected and dismissed Trayvon Martin's worth as a human being. This is an outrage. Tell me those family members didn't discuss relevant things about the trial based on what may have been heard on MSM or discussed in public.
UtahLib
(3,182 posts)Every new revelation just adds to the disgust I have for what they want us to believe was justice in that sham of a trial.
Dawson Leery
(19,566 posts)
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Too many people had to be in on it for it to stay hushed up. Eventually one of the conspirators will be down on his luck and need some money and he'll sell his story to some journalist. Initially it will be denied of course but then more snooping will reveal more connections and a full scale investigation will be undertaken. A lot of political careers and reputations will be ruined and criminal charges could possibly be brought.
Zimmerman of course will not be affected since he is protected by double jeopardy, but the judge, cops, prosecutors and jurors may have something to worry about.
It's widespread incompetence at best and willful conspiratorial lawbreaking at worst.
COLGATE4
(14,886 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)but I'm merely speculating.
If there's some sort of conspiracy going on, it will come out.
madokie
(51,076 posts)premium
(3,731 posts)weren't in the it, they prepared their witnesses poorly, they didn't object when they should have, they allowed the defense to introduce evidence that should have never been allowed.
I don't know if it was incompetence or something more sinister.
madokie
(51,076 posts)methinks that the wheels of justice came off in this case.
The murderers father is a judge with I'm sure some influence, some debts that were called in etc.
This whole thing stinks
They sad part is an innocent 17 year old kids life was cut short and no one is held accountable for it
I'm pissed to say the least 
premium
(3,731 posts)his father was never a judge, he was a Magistrate in VA, which is a low level court officer in VA., other than that, I agree with you.
madokie
(51,076 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)at least the Mall thing was "supervised", whereas THIS is NOT;
so why is this not grounds for annulment of the Jury's decision?
premium
(3,731 posts)For a not guilty verdict to be overturned, the state would have to prove that the corruption was the result of the defendant or any of it's agents were directly responsible, there's zero evidence of this.
It's a very rare occurrence of a not guilty verdict being set aside and a new trial ordered.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)This whole stinkin' court, including the judge (and even the Prosecution at times)
seemed to be mysteriously acting as "agents" of Zimmerman.
premium
(3,731 posts)there's no legal grounds for it, the defense had nothing to do with this, no court in the land would even entertain such a motion and any prosecutor that suggested it would be laughed out of court, and rightly so.
They may have been acting as agents of the defense, (no proof of that) however, they weren't doing so at the behest of the defense.
There isn't going to be any overturning of the verdict, Double Jeopardy attached prohibits it.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)This whole trial stinks to high heaven. 
premium
(3,731 posts)however, morality doesn't figure into law.