US drones helping local police agencies

[cal04]

Predator drones are being used in domestic law enforcement cases, raising concerns that the aircraft are being deployed beyond the missions that Congress originally authorized them for, the Los Angeles Times reported Saturday.

The Times said a North Dakota county sheriff asked federal authorities to employ a drone for surveillance in a standoff with three men on a large farm on June 23, resulting in the first known arrests of U.S. citizens involving the spy planes in domestic cases.

Since then, the Times said, two unarmed Predators based at Grand Forks Air Force Base have flown at least two dozen surveillance flights for local police. The Times reported that the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration have also used Predator drones in domestic investigations.

"We don't use (drones) on every call out," Bill Macki, head of the police SWAT team in Grand Forks told the Times.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/11/9360170-report-us-drones-helping-local-police-agencies

[burrowowl]

1. Bomb that HOUSE!

Whoops! Wrong house. So sorry.

[pscot]

9. Hey! Collateral damage!

We'll get used to it.

[Fearless]

2. Soooo when they crash in my backyard can I keep them like Iran has?

I really could use a world-class camera... and the radar proof covering would come in handy somewhere I'm sure, knowing my family gatherings!

[Eljo_Don]

6. radar proof covering

Sorry, Planes made out of wood and plastic don't need a radar proof covering. The radar can't detect them.

[Fearless]

7. I was referring to the skin of the plane that dropped in Iran which did have such a covering.

[secondvariety]

3. Crime must be out of control

Glad to hear they're not used on EVERY call out...yet.

[LiberalEsto]

4. Big Brother is here

Our worst sci-fi nightmares are turning into reality.

What's to stop the government from using drones to spy out any effort at opposing or resisting a controversial policy or program?

Drones should, at the very least, be banned from domestic use against our own citizens. Is anyone in Congress capable of listening?

[Shoe Horn]

22. The world is overpopulating, they have no choice...

[img][/img]
prepare...preppaaaarreeeee....

[SHRED]

29. They use helicopters and sattelites now...

...what's the difference?

Don't get me wrong, I am not favoring these expensive toys.


--

[Eljo_Don]

5. cheap technology

See the following CNN report and you will see that the equipment acquired by police is a cheap imitation of a real drone.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e5f_1196086126

This is supposed to be a demo of the equipment needed to operate the drone. The rotating radar antenna is an old 2nd war rotating type. The drone (see the end of the movie) looks like an small RC plane that can be build by any advanced remote control model plane amateur. In fact, I have seen much more sophisticated designs. Just Google "RC airplanes". The police and politicians present can't distinguish the difference. This no more than a super valued RC plane with camera to transmit video. Price to build, say $100,000. Price for the police dept., a couple of millions.

[psychopomp]

14. That report is from 2007

Can you be sure they are using the same tech four years on?

[orpupilofnature57]

8. Police & Military have two different functions

Blending equipment and personal ( cotractors ) along with function is facsist.

[grantcart]

16. No military drones were used

Since 2005 the Border Patrol has used drones in areas with vast territory and limited action, i.e. ND.

Deputy Sherriffs were called to settle a dispute of missing cows and armed men drove them off the land.

The Sherriffs, understandably, didn't want to walk into an ambush and asked for ariel recon to find them. Could have been an airplane or helicoptor but in this case it was a law enforcement drone.

The drone was helpful in identifying where they were and they were arrested without loss of life.

The people arrested are armed fanatics who are against the federal government, namely real facists.

[Gormy Cuss]

30. Right, not military. Border Patrol drones which were funded for a different reason were used.

Following the link to the original L.A. Times article one finds an excellent discussion of why this is problematic.

[sarcasmo]

10. Police State!

[Boudica the Lyoness]

11. Do you remember when America was great and respected?

During the 'going to the moon' era this country was looked up to by the world and Americans benefited from all the new technology that was developed for the space program.

Now that the US has become great at invading other countries and killing innocent civilians there...what do we get back home? We get treated just like the people in those invaded countries. We get our doors kicked down and some get gunned down inside their own homes. We get abused at airports and accosted for peaceful protest.

And now drones!

[L. Coyote]

12. No

But, I clearly recall they thought they were

The USA was built on a century of genocidal extermination of the indigenous nations. If you are seeking enlightenment, look elsewhere.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

13. Maybe you don't understand the point I was making.

I grew up in England in the 50's - 60's and the US was admired during that time there. Now people in England generally look down upon the US for its greed, war mongering, 'friendly fire' and its general bad treatment of its own people.

Roll around and laugh at me all you want. I think you rude.

[Shoe Horn]

18. Or maybe he does and just disagrees?

Not trying to be rude, but, the UK gov't certainly has plenty of blood on it's hands from 'genocidal extermination of the indigenous nations'. And is there, right along with our own corrupt politicians, doing the dirty deeds right out in the broad daylight.

I doubt tut tutting about another nation's greed, war mongering, etc is called for when your own country's gov't is guilty as well. Doesn't that seem reasonable?

[Boudica the Lyoness]

20. No, I don't think you are being reasonable by piling on.

Did you just want to take a jab at the UK?

I was giving my point of view from someone who grew up in England during the space race and it is clearly not appreciated here.

Drones my arse!

[Shoe Horn]

21. You don't think it's reasonable to consider your own country's problems...

as you publicly condemn America, on an American Political Forum?


[img][/img]

See, to me, your 'compliment' seems like a backhanded one. You only mention how wonderful America was...to further emphasize how unwonderful we are. And Lord knows, everyone in the world can find something to criticize about America. Meanwhile, their infrastructure is falling apart and rioting in the streets, but let me take time out to remind the Americans how far they've fallen.

Okay, dear England.
Thank you, gentle knight of kindness.
[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]

Be well, in your travels, spreading good cheer the internet over, hither and yon, and know that you, dearheart, are forever appreciated by the world! Where, i ask, where would we be without the genius of Britian?

What? You dare mock me?

Watch this, scully naif, an half drag I beg, still thou wagging tongue...
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/genius-of-britain


Also, this olde arse wot wot and think nough ill mung trot of mine flatuaskance:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/736311/Arrogant-unfriendly-and-no-sense-of-humour-what-foreign-tourists-think-of-the-English.html

Here, verily thou art a rose of enlightened non-judgement and good will:
[img][/img]


Thank you.


Thank you.


Thank you.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

23. Didn't read your shit...but

before I put you on ignore enjoy this....and your fucked up healthcare!

[Shoe Horn]

24. "Enjoy this and your fucked up healthcare"?

Hope ya feel better soon.

[img][/img]

No hard feelings.

[L. Coyote]

27. Maybe you don't understand the point I was making.

I grew up in the 50's - 60's and the US was NOT admired during that time and generally look down upon for its greed, war mongering, 'friendly fire' and Mai Li massacre alike, and its general bad treatment of its own people and sponsorship of fascistic and brutal dictatorships killing their liberal activists.

I roll around and laugh at you not to be rude, but because derision is the only political tool we have left

[unkachuck]

15. why do the police....

....need predator drones?....when did their role in civil society become a military role?

"...sheriff asked federal authorities to employ a drone for surveillance in a standoff with three men..."

....if it's a standoff, what's the necessity for a drone? Where are the suspects going to go? It's a siege. Where's the presumption of innocence?

....surveillance, my eye....they want to Hellfire missile them dudes....

[vminfla]

17. Really? Hellfire missiles? If I told you once, I told you a million times...do not exaggerate

Are you equally worried when school children fly their unarmed Radio controlled planes?

[Shoe Horn]

19. I think you're right, actually...

I think they do want to drop bombs on them (er, *US*).
It's like a video game from their perspective.

Like crushing ants, it's always easier to kill those who have been dehumanized, isn't it?



P.S.
I am so very, very glad they kept the feature that alerts the world when you sneek back in to edit a typo 1/2 a second after you hit submit!

[hack89]

31. It the safest way to keep an eye on potentially dangerous criminals

you can keep police away which is not only safer for them but also avoids escalating the violence. If you know what the suspects are doing all the time there are no surprises and a better chance for a peaceful ending.

[vminfla]

32. Exactly right. Lives are saved using drones

I think many are caught up in the symbolism of the drone name - Predator drones - more than anything else.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. I hope that they don't get into the wrong hands

they could be dangerous.

[ManiacJoe]

26. In what way?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

35. A number of ways

[SHRED]

28. Other than outrageous cost to taxpayers

How are these toys different from a helicopter or space camera?


---

[Xithras]

33. Local police agencies answer to your local leaders. Your local sheriff is probably elected.

Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2011, 05:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Our political focus too often overlooks these "minor" local races in favor of "more important" state or national races, but issues like this really highlight the importance of keeping a close eye on races closer to home. Local political pressure is usually FAR easier to apply than national pressure, and getting your local county board of supervisors to ban the use of drones is a much simpler task than convincing Congress or the FAA to do the same.

The next time you have a local racedebate come up, attended by your local paper, make a point to seek out a reporter beforehand and mention that civilian drones are now available for police use, and that you intend to ask the candidates about their position on their use. When you get a chance to speak, make it clear that you are concerned about drone flights, and pointedly ask the candidate(s) whether they would support allowing local law enforcement agencies to use drones to monitor your local city/county citizens. Get them on record, and do your best to convince your local media that it's an issue, so that it will be reported.

Most local political races are run on shoestring budgets and shy away from anything that would require any real conflict. You may not be able to convince Congress to stop the deployment of these things, but you MAY be able to convince your local leaders not to use them. Act locally.

[vminfla]

34. But...what if I *want* local law enforcement to use drones

In this case, it clearly prevented the escalation of additional violence. Drones can save lives here by targeting potential threats, as this case had.

I agree, act locally. I would vote for the local sheriff that is willing to use tools responsibly in order to ensure the safety of the local community.