Fugitive Snowden's Hopes of Leaving Moscow Airport Dashed

[Hissyspit]

Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Reuters/AFP/Associated Press

Fugitive Snowden's hopes of leaving Moscow airport dashed

By Lidia Kelly

Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:35pm EDT

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Fugitive U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden's hopes of leaving Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport for the first time in a month on Wednesday were dashed when he failed to secure permission from Russia to leave.

An airport source said Snowden, who is wanted by the United States on espionage charges for revealing details of government intelligence programs, was handed documents by his lawyer that were expected to include a pass to leave the transit area.

However, Snowden did not go through passport control and lawyer Anatoly Kucherena, who is helping him with his request for temporary asylum in Russia until he can reach a country that will shelter him, said the American did not have the pass he needed.

It was not clear whether there had been last-minute political intervention or a hitch, or whether the pass had never been in his possession.


@BreakingNews: Report: Russia gives Edward Snowden documents allowing him to leave Moscow airport, source tells RIA Novosti state news agency - @AFP

@AP: BREAKING: Russian state news agency says leaker Edward Snowden has documents to enter Russia. -MM

@Reuters: Snowden granted papers needed to leave Moscow airport: source http://t.co/CFQkHqoZt4

Snowden granted papers needed to leave Moscow airport: source

Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:59am EDT

Former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden was on Wednesday granted documents that will allow him to leave a Moscow airport where he is holed up, an airport source said on Wednesday.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Snowden, who is wanted by the United States for leaking details of U.S. government intelligence programs, was expected to meet his lawyer at Sheremetyevo airport later on Wednesday after lodging a request for temporary asylum in Russia. The immigration authorities declined immediate comment.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE96N0KH20130724

[shawn703]

1. So he gave up his freedom for a little bit of security

Just like any Libertarian really would once it's his or her ass on the line.

[madrchsod]

2. now greenie can pay for snowden`s plane flight to where ever...

after all greenie must have gotten a big advance on the book deal snowden won`t see a penny of. i mean that`s the least greenie could do.

[DontTreadOnMe]

3. Cuba? Dubai? North Korea?

run Rudolph run!

[Mojorabbit]

4. First steps to him being able to visit some embassies. Good news. nt

[Igel]

7. Or be killed on the street.

Now that this wouldn't be happening in a restricted space.

That cup of kofe, the pel'meny ... You just never know when that kolbasa will hold something untoward that isn't usually in already dangerous kolbasa, or the kotlety will have a nasty surprise.

And just don't drink the beer. As a matter of tastebud preservation.

[midnight]

5. K&R

[marions ghost]

6. Glad to hear this

I'm sure his family and those who care about him are relieved.

[dotymed]

8. It saddens me to read that

some (all on this thread so far) DU'ers (?) have swallowed the MSM talking points. His political affiliation, his private life, etc... have no bearing on the facts (some of which he has exposed) of the totalitarian state that America has become.

It speaks volumes of the success of the propaganda machine.

At least most other countries "get it" (especially their citizens, and are appalled.

[JoePhilly]

9. Should we give this totalitarian state of America control over Healthcare?

I mean, many of us support single payer or even Medicare for all. Government run, universal, healthcare.

Programs that would be run, with the records all held, by the government.

Our evil totalitarian government.

Wouldn't that same totalitarian government data mine our medical records and use that information to spy on us?

[dotymed]

11. Really Joe?

You don't see the difference between H.C. for all (as it should be) and recording our every phone conversation, e-mail...all "private" communications? Really?

[karynnj]

13. No one is recording every phone call i

What is saved is the record of a call being made.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

19. Is that what some NSA guy assured you on TV ?

Too bad they're storing the actual calls, too.
To be mined later, if anything calls attention to you.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/14/nsa-utah-data-facility

Do you protest illegal wars ? Government doesn't like that.
Try to prevent fracking in your neighborhood? Sounds like a "domestic terrorist" to me.

As long as you're a nobody, doing nothing, no political ambitions, no activism, just watch TV and drink beer -
you're perfectly safe from the NSA.

[Major Hogwash]

22. Do you think the people on tv can see you in your living room??

[JDPriestly]

30. And if they think your call record is interesting, let's say you are a senator and you call your

secretary or one of your fabulously rich donors late at night a very often, then they can subpoena the contents of your messages.

If you are a political activist, and they identify you and follow what you say on the internet in forums like DU, they can subpoena the content of your phone calls too.

Once they have your metadata, they know exactly who you are, what your interests are, what you buy, where you shop, who your friends are, who your doctor is, who your psychiatrist is (if you have one), and if they can view your internet records without a subpoena (which they probably can), they may be able to learn how high your blood pressure is, what your allergies are and all kinds of other useful details about you -- your blood test reports, everything.

And they are recording every phone call. They just don't access all of them. We have no idea how many of the phone calls they record they do access. All that is top secret.

So they keep secret from you what they know about your personal life. That is not democracy. In fact we cannot have meaningful citizen participation in government, not even meaningful elections at the most basic level, when we have an NSA collecting our metadata.

The collection of metadata has to stop. It is the greatest threat to our nation since the invention and dissemination of nuclear weapons. I think we should be asking whether General Alexander and his team in the NSA are on a par with some of the traitors that sold the secrets on how to make an atomic bomb to the Russians. I really see the collection of metadata and the secrecy as threats as great to democracy as any other potential totalitarian attack.

I'm not meaning to harm anyone, not General Alexander or anyone else, but if there ever was an imminent danger to our Constitution and our system of government, it is this ubiquitous surveillance.

When you fly and you have your x-ray or picture taken in that machine, what they get is the image of your iris. With that, they can identify you. It is more certain, as I understand it, than DNA. To have them keeping the records of our metadata on top of that is sheer treason. It is a coup, a silent coup.

[99th_Monkey]

37. +100 Nicely put. ~nt

[karynnj]

44. They are NOT recording every call. They are recording and saving the phone records.

Consider that in NONE of recent controversial trials were phone calls introduced. For instance, Trayvon Martin's last call would have answered a huge amount of questions - was it pulled? There they would have someone indicted. I have seen no good source that says that they are recording all phone calls. The only place I have seen it is from internet sources without any credibility.

Note that even Saint Edward did not say all phone calls are recorded.

Your post suggests that at this point, you will believe anything on excessive surveillance without questioning any source.

[hueymahl]

48. Yet.

I think you meant to say "They are NOT recording every call, yet."

And the only reason they are not recording every call yet is because the technology is not quite there YET. Just wait a few years until they complete all the build-outs in Utah, North Carolina and god-knows (obama-knows?) where. The could not do what they are doing now 10 years ago.

Technology is awesome. Technology is a bitch. It all just depends on who is using it. And it is our job as citizens to make sure the bastards in our own government don't misuse it.

[marions ghost]

49. This has nothing to do with Trayvon

--ridiculous argument. And for SURE the NSA is keeping a low profile and would not disclose anything they don't have to.

You do not know for sure about the phone calls. None of us do. But some pretty sharp people have definite suspicions. So to go around saying they are NOT (caps) doing it is naive...

So then, what about PRISM--ie. all the other data from everywhere they can get their hands on. We do know a lot about that via the Guardian. Nobody in government is denying it. Notice that?

"NSA internal slides included in the disclosures purported to show that the NSA could unilaterally access data and perform "extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information" with examples including email, video and voice chat, videos, photos, voice-over-IP chats (such as Skype), file transfers, and social networking details.[2] Snowden summarized that "in general, the reality is this: if an NSA, FBI, CIA, DIA, etc analyst has access to query raw SIGINT [signals intelligence] databases, they can enter and get results for anything they want." (Wiki)

But this is all OK with you, I guess. Don't worry, be happy.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

51. You really think the NSA would stir up a hornet's nest

just for another murder trial ? "Oh, by the way, I got this phone call, and email, and surveillance footage from the NSA, as a personal favor, even though they are publicly denying they have such data. It will prove beyond a reasonable doubt what I have been arguing this week." As if our national security agencies care one way or the other about Zimmerman.

Such data would only be used to nail Bradley Manning in a closed-door session,
or to convict Ed Snowden of treason in a secret trial (if they ever get their hands on him).
Or to pressure a billionaire like Ross Perot to drop out of a Presidential race.

Do you still "believe" that the US Military did no torturing in Iraq ?
That's a quick test of your gullibility to Authority.

[JDPriestly]

59. The calls are not being saved to help the ordinary police.

Why do you think the NSA/FBI has to subpoena records? What do you think they are subpoenaing? They already have the metadata, that is, the phone bill records. The only things left to subpoena are the records of the voices or e-mails or messages sent.

In fact, the prosecution brought a motion that was heard late one night during the trial and discussed at length here on DU because THEY HAD OBTAINED THE RECORDS OF THE CONTENTS OF TRAYVON'S TEXT MESSAGES, and they wanted the time to encrypt them. The judge ruled that they were irrelevant and denied the motion.

The content of phone calls, texts, everything is being recorded and saved. The FBI can get a subpoena to obtain them.

I am not in denial, but many other DUers are. I do not deny that the NSA/FBI can get a subpoena to listen in to your calls and read your texts in the future or can, alternatively, obtain past records. The hearing at the Trayvon Martin court suggests that is being done.

[marions ghost]

62. I hadn't heard that--re Trayvon

wouldn't they have to disclose where they got contents of text messages from, and could that be another source, if it were used in this kind of trial?

[JDPriestly]

64. They may have obtained them from the prosecution and from the phone company.

Subpoenaing phone records and electronic data is not unusual.

[JoePhilly]

17. Why do you think a totalitarian government would treat the two differently?

A totalitarian government, if it provided universal healthcare, would also maintain the MEDICAL RECORDS of everyone.

You claim they listen to your calls (that's false, but let's pretend its true). Why would a totalitarian government that is listening to your phone calls not also examine your medical records?

Ever been treated for addiction? An STD? You take meds for anxiety? Suffer from mild depression? Have an other mental health issues? A totalitarian government would absolutely use that information against you.

And so ... please explain why believe that the totalitarian government you speak of would not use the information found in your medical records against you and the rest of us?

[dotymed]

27. Absolutely, a totalitarian regime

would and it is very possible, already has access to our medical records. I never said differently.

I still use my phone and send e-mails.

It is an invasion of our privacy and IMO Snowden did a great service to American citizens by trying (the propaganda machine has steadily used his personal life both as a distraction and to discredit his message) to inform us of the reality that we have no privacy.

Obviously, the propaganda is very successful.

This OP is not a forum for arguing. I have my opinion based on the official facts that surfaced.
You have your opinion. That is what America is supposed to be about. I wish that was still the core of our values. It is mine
and I celebrate it. We should not all agree but hopefully, thanks to whistle-blowers like Snowden and Manning, we can all be exposed to the facts and make up our own minds.

[MADem]

41. His point is a valid one--the "gubmint" is only evil when it's doing things that some don't like.

You don't think a mendacious heart couldn't use health care records in a nefarious fashion, if they had a mind to so do?

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Access to healthcare records is carefully controlled

and can be shared only when it benefits your health. The NSA, on the other hand, uses access to your phone records to see who they can implicate in 'terrorism' - which we still don't know whether includes activism like Occupy Wall Street or protesting the Keystone XL pipeline (the company trying to build it does class that as 'terrorism').

And the people in HHS are basically normal, decent human beings, whereas many of the NSA and CIA personnel are deeply untrustworthy.

[JoePhilly]

18. So a totalitarian government, one that controls the database with the medical records ...

can be trusted to maintain those records and not to data mine them, or to cross reference data between those, and their other data.

So when the NSA is investigating you, they can't say, get information about your taxes and income right?

And they certainly won't look at or notice your calls to various medical professionals, and then want to know whether you are seeing those medical professionals for a valid reason. Which leads to your medical records. Perhaps they wonder whether the terrorists are trying to get unstable people with mental health issues to join them.

One can not claim that we have a totalitarian government and then assert that the same government would respect one's medical records if they had access.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. I'm sure the NSA does have access to everyone's tax information

They are a law unto themselves - literally. They have a shadow court system, in which only they appear before the judges.

A government healthcare system is good for the people. What the US needs is laws saying that spies and law enforcement access with the standard of evidence needed for a normal police investigation, whether that's phone company records, ISP data, tax information, or healthcare information. It would be truly idiotic to say "well, you wanted universal healthcare, but that would give the NSA more information about you, so you should either lie back and take whatever the NSA chooses to do to you, or be labelled as being against universal healthcare". Or truly dishonest. Or perhaps both.

[JoePhilly]

23. Government healthcare is good for the people ... but not if the

government in question is totalitarian.

And that's the claim that some are making.

BTW ... Paul Ryan has already started to connect ObamaCare and the NSA story. And if the GOP can scare enough people into thinking that the government is evil, the GOP will gain traction on their efforts to kill all social programs.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. Bollocks. *You* are making that claim. Or maybe some nutcase like Alex Jones

DUers aren't making the claim. Because it's mind-numbingly dumb. So, it's not surprising that Ryan might say it; what is astounding is that you think it's worth bringing up in a discussion on DU.

[JDPriestly]

33. If the NSA did not have access to all our internet data including our medical records, we wouldn't

have a problem with this. That's why we have to reign in the NSA.

I think that the NSA has access to all of our internet data all the time. Am I wrong about this?

[JDPriestly]

32. The NSA also has access to the information on the intenet.

My medical information is posted by my provider on the provider's internet website. I access it with a code, but I don't believe that is a barrier to the NSA. If you bank online, I believe they can access those records quite easily if they want to.

I may be wrong on this. But that is what I have understood from what I have read. Maybe we should ask our members of Congress.

[marions ghost]

54. That is my understanding

based on everything I've read. They can get anything they want anytime.

But people seem to think the NSA is just going to come out and say "yeah, we can do that, so what." The NSA is horrified that their cover has been blown, I'm sure. I imagine the ants in the anthill are kinda disturbed.

Absolutely we should ask our members of Congress for the truth about this & support those in Congress trying to get answers.

Not going to write an essay on all the info I've taken in, but from that and talking to people, I feel convinced that the all-seeing data mine runs 24/7 and it's wide open for access to those in the know. I think people who do not want to face this fact are naive at best, complicit at worst.

[JDPriestly]

58. Thanks.

[Seedersandleechers]

10. Thank you so much

for saying how I felt when reading this thread this AM.

[marions ghost]

12. BS

the thread is about what is happening to Snowden, therefore one can comment on Snowden or anything else having to do with his case or what he has done on the behalf of our rights to privacy. How he is treated by our government now is a BIG part of the picture.

"The success of the propaganda machine" -- nah.

[dbackjon]

14. Is he going to go beat up a gay guy now?

When in Russia...

[frylock]

28. are you going to tie one to a fence and beat him to death?

when in America....

[dbackjon]

34. Are there laws in the US that crimilize gay speech?

While there may be some loonies in the Republican Party that want that, it is not the law of the land.


And FUCK you for using Matthew Shepard for your sick political point.

[frylock]

35. i was merely countering your bullshit political point..

but by all means, do continue to exploit the plight of gay people in Russia to justify your support of the surveillance state.

[dbackjon]

36. Continue to cheerlead Russia - pathetic

[frylock]

39. is this the new talking point from the authoritarian set?

I support Russia? can you kindly dig up any post of mine that shows me supporting Russia, or are you talking out your ass again?

[Ash_F]

55. Guess what? Russia has a right and a left too.

There are many Russians fighting for social justice. Your comments are also quite bigoted.

It is also ironic that you defend an agency and court that is staffed to the brim with right wing Bush/Reagan appointees who are no friends of gay rights.

[Eugene]

15. Reuters banner: Snowden to stay in airport transit zone for now: lawyer

No story yet.

[dipsydoodle]

21. link now up

Fugitive Snowden to stay for now at Moscow airport: Russian lawyer.



MOSCOW | Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:35am EDT

(Reuters) - Former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden will stay in the transit zone of a Moscow airport for the time being while Russian authorities consider his temporary asylum request, a lawyer said on Wednesday.

Anatoly Kucherena, a Russian lawyer who is assisting Snowden in his asylum request and met the 30-year-old on Wednesday afternoon, said Snowden had not yet received the pass needed to leave Sheremetyevo airport after more than a month.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/24/us-russia-snowden-idUSBRE96N0KH20130724

[MADem]

42. ....while Russian authorities consider his temporary asylum request....????

So much for the pass to leave...??? The headline there is
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/24/us-russia-snowden-idUSBRE96N0KH20130724
Fugitive Snowden's hopes of leaving Moscow airport dashed

An airport source said Snowden, who is wanted by the United States for revealing details of government intelligence programs, was handed documents by his lawyer which were expected to include a pass to leave the transit area.

But Snowden did not go through passport control and lawyer Anatoly Kucherena, who is assisting him with his request for temporary asylum in Russia until he can reach a state that will shelter him, said the American did not have the pass he needed.

It was not clear whether there had been a last-minute political intervention or hitch, or the pass had never been in his possession.

[GliderGuider]

25. “Come, Watson, come! The game is afoot!"

Or not...

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

26. Meanwhile, elsewhere in Russia...

[Eugene]

29. Fugitive Snowden's hopes of leaving Moscow airport dashed

Source: Reuters

Fugitive Snowden's hopes of leaving Moscow airport dashed

By Lidia Kelly
MOSCOW | Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:52am EDT

(Reuters) - Fugitive U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden's hopes of leaving Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport for the first time in a month on Wednesday were dashed when he failed to secure permission from Russia to leave.

An airport source said Snowden, who is wanted by the United States for revealing details of government intelligence programs, was handed documents by his lawyer which were expected to include a pass to leave the transit area.

But Snowden did not go through passport control and lawyer Anatoly Kucherena, who is assisting him with his request for temporary asylum in Russia until he can reach a state that will shelter him, said the American did not have the pass he needed.

It was not clear whether there had been a last-minute political intervention or hitch, or the pass had never been in his possession.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/24/us-russia-snowden-idUSBRE96N0KH20130724

[stonecutter357]

31. GG

Comrade!

[struggle4progress]

38. Snowden Lawyer Says No Clearance to Leave Airport

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and STEVEN LEE MYERS
Published: July 24, 2013

... But about 6 p.m., Antatoly Kucherena, a Russian lawyer assisting Mr. Snowden with his asylum request, emerged from the transit zone and said that the certificate had not been received.

He did not cite any specific reason for the delay but said officials had informed him that Mr. Snowden’s situation “was not a standard process” and that the paperwork needed to allow him to depart the airport required more time.

Mr. Kucherena said he had met with Mr. Snowden and described him as being in good spirits, with plans to learn Russian. He said he had brought him the copy of “Crime and Punishment” ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/world/europe/snowden.html?_r=0

[struggle4progress]

40. Snowden can't leave Moscow airport yet, lawyer says

By CNN Staff
updated 12:17 PM EDT, Wed July 24, 2013

... Russian media had reported Wednesday that the U.S. intelligence leaker was issued a document that would allow him to wait elsewhere in Russia while his request for temporary asylum was considered.

But Kucherena, after meeting with Snowden in Sheremetyevo International Airport's transit area Wednesday, told reporters that Snowden hadn't received the certificate and that he would remain in the transit area for now ...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/24/world/europe/russia-snowden/

[MADem]

43. You might want to correct your subject line, since the initial reports turned out to be false.

The Russians have told him to pound sand--in the transit zone--for now, anyway.

Your link at the bottom of your post now has the headline

Fugitive Snowden's hopes of leaving Moscow airport dashed

[Agschmid]

46. Are we actively trying to catch him?

Do you know something I don't know?

[Agschmid]

50. No it worked fine...

And it's not spin...

If we wanted him we'd have him... Think about all that spying we know where he is.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

52. They do want him

They don't have him.

Because the US does not lightly enrage Russia - they are big enough to fight back.

Do you really think the CIA will send in assassins or kidnappers - to Russia ?
I would bet heavily against such actions.

[Agschmid]

53. And has he been in Russia the entire time...

And if the NSA were really spying to the degree we all "feel" it is would Snowden have even been able to get OUT of the US?

These are legitimate questions.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

56. He went to Hong Kong first

from Hawaii.

The NSA still has no way to find out what thoughts are in a person's head - if he doesn't put them into emails, blog comments, phone calls or credit card transactions, they wouldn't know what Ed was planning to do after flying to Hong Kong.

So yes, he would have been able to "get out" of the US even if the NSA is spying as badly as The Guardian has revealed.

How do you "feel" about that ?

[Agschmid]

57. Well...

I feel he did, as you stated

put them into emails, blog comments, phone calls or credit card transactions

I assume he bought a ticket?

[Lugal Zaggesi]

60. And yet some NSA contractors take vacations

in places like Hong Kong,
without whistlebowling as Ed decided to do.
Too bad there was no way of scanning Ed's brain for traitorous thoughts.

Perhaps the NSA will require employees and contractors to remain within the USA or it's territories in the future - just to be safe.

I assume Snowden told nobody at the airline his real reasons for travelling to Hong Kong.

[Agschmid]

61. .

[Lugal Zaggesi]

63. In conclusion,

if the NSA were really spying to the degree we all "feel" it is would Snowden have even been able to get OUT of the US?

Yes.