Study: Lack of diapers linked to depression
Source: Connecticut Post
Low-income mothers in New Haven who can't afford enough diapers to keep their babies clean and dry are more likely to report trouble with stress, depression or trauma, according to a study published today in the journal Pediatrics.
The survey of 877 New Haven mothers found nearly 30 percent said they didn't have enough diapers to change their children as often as they would like, and the problem was more common among Hispanic women and caregivers over age 45, usually grandmothers. Women who reported diaper need were nearly twice as likely to experience mental health issues, although the nature of the link is unclear.
The authors hypothesize that the link could be direct, or it could be part of more complex interaction between mental health and poverty.
"It could be that moms who have more mental-health difficulties have trouble obtaining diapers," said the lead author, Megan Smith, an assistant professor of psychiatry, child study and public health at Yale University. "We're not assuming causality."
<snip>
Read more: http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Study-lack-of-diapers-linked-to-depression-4693718.php
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)Maybe it's because they're poor.
bananas
(27,509 posts)Best-selling books will be titled "Listening to Diapers" and "Diaper Nation".
Listening to Diapers: A Psychiatrist Explores Antidepressant Diapers and the Remaking of the Self is a book written by psychiatrist Peter D. Kramer. Written in 2013, the book discusses how the advance of the anti-depressant diaper might change the way we see personality, the relationship between neurology and personality.
Kramer coined the term "Cosmetic diaper-changing", and in this book he discusses the philosophical, ethical and social consequences of using diapers to change one's personality. He asks if it is ethically defensible to treat a healthy individual to, for instance, help her climb a career, or on the other hand, if it is ethically defensible to deny her that possibility.
<snip>
Diaper Nation (sub-titled Young and Diaperless in America: A Memoir), an autobiography by Elizabeth Wurtzel, was published in 2014. The book describes the author's experiences with major diaper deficiency, her own character failings and how she managed to live through particularly difficult periods while completing college and working as a writer.
The book was adapted into an independent film of the same name starring Christina Ricci and released in 2015.
<snip>
Thank you!!!
reusrename
(1,716 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Yep whoduhthunkit ...lack of enough money to acquire necessities causes depression.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Biggest DUH ever.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)not having enough money to provide the basic needs for your child can lead to depression and stress, roll out the Noble prize for these folks
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)with 'Kodak moments'.
Poverty alone is bad enough, why would anyone want to expose a child to it is beyond my comprehension. BTW, I wonder what the level of depression in parents was before disposable nappies became a norm.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Many of us here grew up before they even existed.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)My Mom raised six kids on little money in the days before Pampers and we were always clean and dry. So I'm having a hard time relating the lack of Pampers to a national crisis.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Do like millions of mothers did when WE grew up, use washable diapers.
I'm sure the next thing will be that they're depressed because they dont have smart phones.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)restricted access to family planning (though that doesn't apply to UK), and steady diet of bullshit people fed every day. That's why I mentioned 'Kodak Moments'. I've met enough middle class parents crying about hardship because suddenly they can't afford new phone or trip to Spain. That's not what they saw on telly, it was supposed to be smiling cute genius babies, and comfortable country houses, and perfect family life.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)it's about diapers.
peace13
(11,076 posts)It's about young parents working two jobs each at fast food to make the living wage of yesterday while grandma takes care of the kids. It's about families with no health care going without. There is very little room to blame the people at the bottom these days. Things are beyond that.
Look to Congress and their phony emergency cuts. Look to the people who receive social Security and Medicare that cling to their benefits without opening their eyes to what is happening out there..... without getting up and making a call or writing a letter. Look to those who receive yet mock those with need. That is where the problem lies.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)It's blame-the-victim-to-reassure-myself-it-can-NEVER-happen-to-ME.
Not knowing how easily, yes it can.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Poverty sucks. Washable diapers require money, too - money to buy them, money to launder them, whether you have your own washer or, more likely, have to schlep them across town to the laundrymat, money for soap, money for the dryers, etc. That might be hard to do when you don't have a vehicle and public transportation is limited. On top of that your baby might be hungry, too. The constant, grinding pain of poverty marches on, and poor people are just as subject to sadness about not being able to give their baby what it needs and deserves as rich people are. Try a little compassion - we're not talking about a fucking smart phone.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Some people have no imagination.
I have a friend who was poor and used cheap flannel squares and plastic pants with her kids - same as what I was diapered in as a baby. She said total investment was $22 ($20 for 2 packs of 12 flannel squares, $2 for 2 pairs of plastic pants). Probably more now, that was 20 years ago. But she had no money for a Laundromat and her apartment didn't have laundry facilities, so she washed the diapers in the bathtub by hand and she would hang them to dry on the balcony (inside on the shower curtain rod in the winter). She breastfed, so her baby wasn't hungry. She said it's doable, but so difficult and time consuming. She was lucky she was a stay at home mom, had a husband with a job, and that her husband was a very attentive father and they shared diaper-washing duties. But it's important to remember - she had enough money to eat and buy detergent. Laundry detergent is NOT cheap. With 24 diapers you are doing at least a load of diapers every other day, especially with flat flannel diapers probably more than that since you have to double up at nights and outings.
It's also important to note that a lot of charities and food bank-type places don't give out cloth diapers - but many places DO give out disposables - for free. Cloth diapers require a larger upfront cost than a pack of disposables as well - that upfront cost puts them out of reach for some people. I cloth diapered 2 out of my 4 kids full time (and the other 2 had cloth part time) and the upfront cost for the cheap pre-folds was $100 with good covers and multiple sizes of pre-folds. Plain flannel squares just simply did not hold my kids' pee, not absorbent enough. I also sewed some diapers with fabric I already had which kept costs down. Most poor people don't have fabric and sewing machines hanging around, nor do they have access to specialty baby stores that sell cloth diapers (I haven't seen cloth diapers in chain stores for 10 years now.) The issue is complex. (I mean other than MORE MONEY would likely solve the issue.)
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)How many are already working several jobs?
Hestia
(3,818 posts)"not understanding poverty" but this is such a non-issue. "In the old days" a baby's diaper was cleaned off in the toilet (of course this means that you have running water) and then soaked in a bucket of bleach and laundry soap. A bar of laundry soap costs around $1.49 today. If you do not have a w/d, get a bucket, some laundry soap, and wash by hand. This isn't even thinking outside the box, this is having a will to get up and clean diapers.
This is such a non-issue. This is from watching too many tv commercials with happy babies wearing very expensive and very non-environmentally friendly diapers.
Just because something is a convenience doesn't mean it is a necessity and disposable diapers falls into that category.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)But do carry on.
NickB79
(19,258 posts)We were poor family farmers, living below the poverty line, getting WIC, free school lunches, food stamps from time to time, etc.
My mom said her method was to make diapers out of scrap cloth, get a large plastic tub with a lid, fill it with soap, bleach and water, and throw dirty diapers into it. After a few days, she'd take it outside, stir it up with a large stick, and dump it out. That eliminated the need to do laundry every day, and the bleach and soap neutralized the odor and basically dissolved the poop by the time it came to actually wash them.
On edit: forgot to add that this was from 1979-1985 too, so it's not like it was THAT long ago....
Hekate
(90,793 posts)... or empathy, but I repeat myself.
Thank you Sheldon.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I did not intend to demean the very real problem of poverty among women and children, who comprise the majority of those living below the poverty line. Many was the time when my siblings and I were hungry and if anything from that time has stayed with me all these years, it was that. Conversely, my best childhood memories are those where we got something special to eat, like a ham sandwich or perhaps a stack of pancakes covered with hot sugar water, since we had no syrup. But a lack of disposable diapers? Really. The problem is POVERTY, not Pampers. Lack of food, shelter, and health care would lead anyone to depression.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)Did she live in a car? Did she have a car to drive to the Laundromat? Did she have money for the machines. Did she have money for the diapers? You see none of those things are free and in today"s world things get pretty complicated.
Wow six kids....that was a lot. If the mother today had six kids we would have so much to say about her!
My point is we really can't be judging someone we don't know. She may be the best mother in the world, just like yours was. Unless you grew up in the first depression, she was parenting in a different world. This great second depression is taking families out by the tens of thousands and well...you won't read about it in the papers.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)The article didn't say.
My mother washed out the diapers by hand in the bathtub with soap flakes. But yes, she had a clothesline made of rope. I guess that disqualifies her from grasping the concept of poverty since her life was so uncomplicated.
antigone382
(3,682 posts)The reality is that they are more time-consuming than disposable diapers, and there is also a certain amount of learned skill involved in using and washing them effectively. For a working single mother in the modern world (as many poor mothers are), reusable diapers may not be a viable option, owing both to lack of time and lack of knowledge. I also theorize (though I could be wrong, of course) that reusable diapers may be initially more costly; while they would certainly pay off in the long term, if you can't scrape that amount of money to begin with, you are stuck paying a smaller amount on a more frequent basis.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Assuming you're buying reusable diapers that are generally diaper-shaped.
If you are just talking about a piece of cloth, that's about the same price as a disposable diaper, but you run into the "knowledge" problem again, in that you have to learn how to fold them properly.
antigone382
(3,682 posts)Whoever else might be caring for the kid--Dad, Grandma, older sister, babysitter--also has to agree to use the diapers (which many will not), and the mom has to trust that they actually can and will use them properly. Not to mention, someone else pointed out that disposables are required in most daycare centers.
Don't get me wrong, like I said I favor the use of cloth diapers; but I don't expect a low income mother in a situation I can't begin to guess about to have the time, knowledge, resources, and social support to make a challenging choice that is outside the mainstream, with potential consequences for her child.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)The problem isn't Pampers, it's poverty itself. Lack of adequate housing, food, medical care, etc. To me, attributing the depression arising from grinding poverty as one due of the lack of Pampers diverts attention from the core problem and perhaps even trivializes it. Once you have food security, a roof over your head, medical care for yourself and your kids, other problems can be worked out -- not easily, mind you, but there are ways.
antigone382
(3,682 posts)They make it clear in the article that they aren't even assuming that lack of diapers precedes depression. They suggest that lack of diapers is an indicator of overall poverty, and that poverty and depression are linked, and in all probability in a sort of "feedback loop" relationship--poverty results in depression which results in worse poverty and/or vice versa. It just so happens that in this study, they found a statistically significant link between reported lack of access to diapers and reported depression.
I think a lot of the reaction in this thread (not you specifically) stems from some fundamental inaccuracies about how social research is done and what its' capabilities are. Trying to apply scientific principles to the analysis of social realities is incredibly difficult and at a certain level impossible, because there are so many variables, ethical issues, and abstract concepts involved. These people had the funding for one study with a limited focus area. It happened to include questions about depression and questions about access to diapers, and it happened to find that these two things are correlated. If you read the actual study wherever it is published, they probably link that to other studies and other data to integrate it into a scholarly conversation about the relationship between poverty and depression; but in a news article reporting on the study, you aren't going to get that.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Actually, I would like to read the study. Reacting solely to sensationalist headlines won't contribute to a cogent discussion, I'll admit.
peace13
(11,076 posts)That is the point.
Ednahilda
(195 posts)I did exactly the same thing with my own children. I have never owned a dryer even though I live in the Northeast where it gets cold and icy in the winter, but unless there's snow or rain falling my laundry is outside to dry. Yes, sometimes I can even feel it freeze in my fingers while I'm pinning it to the line, but I'll be darned if I'm going to pay the power company for something Mother Nature will do better for free. When I lived in an apartment, I had an indoor clothesline which we located over one of the bigger radiators so I could dry clothing in the winter; I still have an indoor clothesline. Yeah, it was definitely more complicated than being able to take stuff from a washer and put it into a dryer, but we made it work.
This is not to diminish the awful damage poverty does to a person, to a family. However, it's one thing to decry the lack of disposable diapers and quite another to point to a lack of good food or satisfying, decently-paying jobs.
dem in texas
(2,674 posts)When my children were small, back in the late 1950's and early 60's, we were poor as church mice. I had about 6 or 7 dozen cloth diapers made of layers of gauze. If I could not afford to go to the laundramat, I would wash them by hand. You rinsed the diaper as soon as you took it off the baby and put the soiled diaper in a bucket that had water and 20 mule team borax in it. This kept the diaper from going sour and made it easier to wash. If the diapers were really dirty, I'd put a big pot of water on the stove and boil the diapers for 10 or 15 minutes. Yes, it took more time, but I did not work and it sure did save money. I used those same diapers for all three kids. I also made their baby food because prepared baby food was so expensive. Who would know, I was actually feeding them more wholesome food by making it from scratch.
.
7962
(11,841 posts)Mine did the same thing. And when I grew up in the late 70s, we didnt have much but we never felt poor. I guess if it was today, I'd think we WERE. There are so many people today who equate poverty with a dollar figure, when its much more than that. My brother would be considered poor by the government based on his income and where he lives. But HE doesnt think he's poor. If you ask a child "have you ever gone to bed hungry", of course a lot of them will answer yes. So have I. Who hasnt? But you cant use those answers to say "millions of children are going to bed hungry".
Now a lot of people see what the damn Kardashians have on TV and think they're poor because THEY dont have it too. Extra cars, trips, clothes, phones, DVR,sat tv, 2000 sq ft home, fancy watch, $100 sunglasses, $200 Jordans, the list goes on.
Of COURSE a lot of people are on the edge or below it. And they need help from all of us. Thats why i give to the local Salvation Army, Goodwill and the local food bank when I can. Many others around here do the same. But there are also a lot of people out there looking for any reason to label someone "poor" because it suits their goals.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Yes, there are alternatives such as cloth. Lots of moms used to do that....but lots of moms were also stay-at-home moms.
The main problem with cloth and a single mother is her job. Daycare will require disposables, and caring for cloth diapers is either expensive (diaper service) or very time consuming compared to disposables.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Lack of money to buy disposable diapers then becomes "lack of money to wash diapers at the laundromat" ....
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)are just pigs and wouldn't have the sense to toss poop and do a pre-soak.
I'm talking about the majority that thinks it's ok to throw trash into the streets. YMMV.
Scairp
(2,749 posts)I found it to be easy and had almost no problems with leaking diapers, and I was a very young mother. I used cloth until my babies began to walk and then I switched to mostly disposable. None of my friends were using cloth. But I must confess I had a diaper service so I didn't have to wash them as well. That is very off putting for so many young moms who already have enough work without needing to boil the diapers too. A diaper service even now isn't that expensive and there is a program in place to provide diapers and I am in the process of trying to get a sponsorship-type program that would include helping mothers who want cloth to get a diaper service started. Anyone who wishes to assist with this problem go to http://www.diaperbanknetwork.org/. They collect both diapers and money to help low income and parents on public assistance with their diapers shortage.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)It's been 38 years since I had a need for diapers. Having the luxury of being a stay at home mom at the time, and being environmentally concerned, I stocked up on cloth diapers. After all, my mom had no other choice with her kids and this was the case for all mothers before her. I lasted about a month before I switched to disposable. Already "diaper services" did not exist most places. I did know another new mom at the time who stuck it out, so I'm not proud of myself. Nonetheless, most women I knew from my mom's generation said they'd have killed for disposables. Surely disposable diapers are environmentally sound except for the (easily stripped off if concerned)plastic layer these days?!! Realistically I know most people will not be bothered to do this, anymore than the observe all the many other little ways to help the environment.
Warpy
(111,339 posts)Yeah, it's nuts, I know that, but that's the way things are now. I suppose putting soiled cloth diapers into the right kid's plastic bag might be too much for a busy day care center.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)one income could support a family
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)My Dad always worked between 2-3 jobs when we were growing up. We rarely saw him because he was always working.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)well after disposables had become the norm and used cloth diapers.
Diaper service at first, and then I simply washed them myself.
Warpy
(111,339 posts)used cloth diapers. Unfortunately for my friends who worked, day care demanded disposables. They got sucked into the sheer convenience of being able to throw them away instead of running a load of diapers through the washer (or laundromat) every day.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)the stay at home ones, who used cloth diapers. Not a one.
Warpy
(111,339 posts)Trust me, they're out there.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)There must have been other moms using the diaper service, but in my circle, including the stay-at-home moms, I was the only one.
I even carried cloth diapers with me on vacation and used the laundromat.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)going to be all noble and use cloth diapers. That lasted, like, a day. She decided that she already did a lot for the environment (she does) so it would forgive her this one transgression. I don't have kids, but what I remember about cloth was my mother dunking poopy diapers in the toilet. Never.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)was not fun, but it cost NOTHING!..except for the bleach and water
liberal N proud
(60,344 posts)Lift people out of poverty! Then you will lift people out of depression.
When a parent can't care for their children and themselves, they are going to be depressed, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
ejpoeta
(8,933 posts)When I had my oldest, we were quite poor. We were even on all out welfare I guess you could say.... cash assistance, food stamps... We had no insurance though I don't think. Now granted, I have been struggling with depression most of my life, but not being able to provide for your kid is devastating. You have a constant reminder that you can't do for your child what you want and what you need. When I was working right after I had my daughter, I had insurance through work. I would go to work making $300/wk. Subtract the insurance, which seemed to keep going up everytime I turned around. Then I had to pay a sitter.... $100/wk. And she was not the registered daycare either.... THis was just a woman I knew in her home that babysat. She smoked.... But it's not like you have a lot of choices.... I had to go to work and needed a sitter.
Then I had to put gas in my car. By the time I was done shelling out money to the sitter and putting gas in my car, I didn't have money to pay bills or buy diapers or food or anything. IT was rather depressing. I still don't know how we did it. Because it wasn't just me. I had my now husband. Then of course, having to drive an hour to work and an hour home presented it's own problems.... like being tired and almost running into trees and telephone poles. I became scared I was going to have an accident. Then after I finally left that job.... it got bad because you don't have a lot of control over things. My now husband had a job when I left mine.... Not sure how long it was before he lost his job and now neither of us had a job. That was when we ended up on assistance. ANd they sure make you feel like a piece of crap. They want you looking for a job. They don't care that you have to pay daycare.... Go out and look for a job.... so what if you end up not having enough money to pay bills or anything else. Bob ended up getting a job and I stayed home.
I have been a stay at home mom for several years now.... Emily, my oldest, is 14 now. We did not bring anymore kids into the picture until we were on solid ground. But it was and can still be depressing. I have to buy school supplies and clothes now. Very depressing. Luckily my kids love to go to Goodwill to pick out clothes. They don't complain about it. I am very lucky. My husband maneuvered himself to better and better jobs. Ones with a company vehicle and company paying for mileage. We struggle, but I know we are a lot better off than a lot of other folks. But I think back to when we were younger and my oldest was little. How we did it is a mystery. I am thankful that the safety net was there. And I can fully understand how one could become depressed because it is a vicious cycle and one that is hard to escape from.
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)eShirl
(18,503 posts)but everyone will assume you're assuming causality
onehandle
(51,122 posts)No shit.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Washing the diapers and then boiling them to sterilize them - then hanging them on the line to dry. It depends whether you have a stove though. Soaking them with soap and rinsing them can work too.
I feel sorry for the woman who do not have enough money to buy diapers though.
peace13
(11,076 posts)and even then you needed a line to dry them on which would require some doing in today's world, especially if one lives in a car!
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)tying a rope from the car to a post and drying the clothes. Some might not be able to afford a car though.
mntleo2
(2,535 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:48 AM - Edit history (2)
...boiling them does little good when you have no place to wash them.
Believe me as a low income mom with 3 kids, two of them babies in diapers while working full time and no washing machine, it was imperative to have paper diapers. As an older mom (the two babies were born less than 1 year apart) I knew about using cloth diapers. The expense of going to a laundromat was impossible ~ much less the time needed to do that as there was little.
Adding to trying to wash diapers, doing the 6 or 7 loads a week of regular laundry was enough!!! Often I did that laundry in the bathtub and hung the clothes around the apartment to dry. I had learned from my mother how to do clothes in the "ricky-tic" washer, a wringer washer. I did not have a wringer washer, but the method there is quite green. You begin with the hottest water and wash the whites first. You rinse each load in another tub of clear water. Then you re-use the soapy water for the lighter colors on down to the dark colors, as the last load, using the same water and maybe adding a little soap. She taught me how to shave off soap from bars of Fells Naptha soap, which was cheap. It did not make the prettiest apartment but hey, it was an affordable way. Plus I could "do the laundry" at home while dong other imperative chores and minding the kids, helping with homework, etc.
I used to feel guilty about using paper diapers thinking they were "filling up our landfills" until I began to be an activist for low income people. One of the people I met was a policy wonk working for the city whose main job was about waste management. When he told me that over 90% of landfill waste was from business waste, I no longer felt bad ~ but affording those diapers was a constant worry.
To me the biggest luxury would have been to have a washer in the home, but many apartments expect people to do their laundry at their expensive laundry room where the equipment is not kept up. They are expensive when things like the the dryer does not work and you pay over and over in order to get the clothes dry. If I REALLY wanted to "live it up" I might use the washer and then take the wet clothes home to hang up.
I am not saying you are doing this but, often upper income people take for granted things that poor people simply do not have access to and need. They will say stuff like "why don't they just (insert whatever solution they think they have) ..." Well that "just" usually costs money that the poor does not have or it costs precious time that could be used for other needs. I learned to change my own oil, fix simple things in the home, and do what needed to be done to attend to my children's needs with little or nothing. To "just" do something like use cloth diapers and boil them, usually costs more time and money than paper diapers, see?
I hope this helps people who are trying to understand people in poverty because it is very appreciated that at least you try when most people demonize the poor and think they are "lazy" and that is why they are poor. They do not understand that poverty is an institution embedded within our society that they themselves depend upon in order to keep their own class positions. While it is perfectly legal to use class to discriminate against someone who is poor, the reasons this Institutions exists is because it depends on illegal discriminations. The Institute of Poverty is based on the classism encompassing racism, sexism, ageism, and disabilities.
The Institution of Poverty generates $Billions in the Poverty Industry for the upper classes, for things like the cheap labor. Mega "non-profits" exploit the poor by using them for tax deductions and cheap labor (sometimes even forced unpaid labor ~ that for-profit corporations also enjoy while getting government funds for "being so nice" as to "let" someone work for free). The truth is with a mega-non profit gets on the average of $57,000-64,000 per client yet only uses about $2000 of that in direct services, so mega-non-profits are mostly there for the upper classes. The truth is that mega-nons are just employment and tax breaks for the upper classes that does little for the poor,. And then there is middle class employment in order to "fix" poor people rather than address the entire institution. This denial creates government and university jobs that are generated for the upper classes to "study" and "manage" the poor. There is also the mental health and medical fields who employ the upper and middle classes (while exploiting McJob workers to do the hardest work), in order to "fix" the person but does little to address the whole Poverty Institution and the industries poverty generate.
Finally, we do not have any respect for unpaid work. Do you know, according to the AARP, that (mostly) women lose on the average of over $400,000 in a work lifetime performing unpaid labor? It would cost $Trillions if we had to create more institutions to replace that work so that women could go out making rich men richer saying, "Do you want fries with that?" Also according to the AARP studies they have done, this unpaid work SAVES our communities over $450BILLION a year! Yet codified into law that work is "doing nothing" according to the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunities Act only paid work is "doing something". This unpaid labor is not just about the raising of our children to care for our future, it is also about the unpaid care of our elders and our spouse. Each time, this need for 24/7 care causes (mostly) women to make the agonizing choice between working for a wage or caring for these loved ones. http://www.aarp.org/home-family/caregiving/info-10-2012/home-alone-family-caregivers-providing-complex-chronic-care.html
Indeed the Social Security calls all this unpaid labor "zero years" so it will not count any of that labor for any support that is saving $Billions. Most care givers have to live off their loved one's income, they get nothing. After their loved one dies or grows up after using up all the resources, then they are tossed to the street since they "did not work". Poor women do ALL this work, paid and unpaid while making 70 cents for every man's dollar on wages that won't even pay the rent.
I know what I am speaking about is scary. I also do not think this is conscience intent so much as taken for granted and hidden from view by a kind of benign denial. But often the use of "why don't they just..." is really trying to fix individual people who are caught in that poisonous spider's web of the Poverty institution. So by viewing people in poverty who individually need to be "fixed" because they "choose" to live in those conditions, is a way to keep the Institution of Poverty in place and all those illegal "isms" hidden. It blankets all of them with the use of "poverty" in order to pretend the illegal reasons are *not* the reason. This way the huge industry of poverty will never be recognized, from which the upper classes can continue to profit and benefit. See?
Hope this helps and I really appreciate your trying to understand what poor people need!
Love, Cat in Seattle
Board member of POWER: http://www.mamapower.org
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)then she would boil them on the wood stove. She had a wringer (mangle) in the back shed where she wrung out her washing before putting them on the line.
There is not enough money to help people get on their feet instead it is siphoned off for other things to help the big corporations. Helping people in poverty and creating jobs must be a priority of this government..
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)This should be an OP. I could be a great conversation starter and open dialog to help those who may not realize that others do not have the same options.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)When I washed the diapers at home I had this machine that fit on a table top. I put it in the kitchen and did a wash load and a rinse load, wringing them by hand.
I also had a hand pump for the water. I was on a farm in an old farmhouse and staying home was my job--- taking care of the animals, garden, baby, cooking, etc. Sounds like drudgery but I loved it---I was outside most of the time.
When we moved to a city, we found a diaper service that was much cheaper than throwaways and much easier on the environment.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)SUMMARY
It's been said that money is the root of all evil. Does money make people more likely to lie, cheat and steal? Economics correspondent Paul Solman reports on new research from the University of California, Berkeley about how wealth and inequality affects us psychologically.
MP3 and transcript at link
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/jan-june13/makingsense_06-21.html
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)sosuaslayde
(15 posts)There is no doubt that this causes stress but what can we do about it? I mean, American families have experienced MUCH tough economic conditions than we have now (without govt benefits)- just ask my grandparents. My advice as a single, full time father who works full time and has a part time job ( Masters degree too!) is dont have any more children if you are in or near poverty. This isnt rocket science. Family planning is essential to create wealth and at minimum- stay above the poverty line
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)How about people in my situation? You think people pop out babies they can afford for no reason? How easy is access to birth control? Do you have any idea how much birth control costs (hint, mine's $50/month and a visit to the doctor every 3-6 months for prescription refills)
My situation is I was married. My husband made 6 figures. We had savings. We had new vehicles, and a lot of equity in our home. We could afford children. We had 4. He bankrupted us (I had no idea, he was the one who 'took care of the money') and cheated on me then left me. I'm stuck now, a single (full-time, no 50-50 here) parent of 4, in school full time (and an occasional p/t cleaning job) and living off alimony and child support. I'm lucky that my ex has money to pay me or I'd be destitute. Seriously. I had no education, and student loans and grants, even here in Canada, wouldn't have covered the cost of f/t school while raising children. Even with decent monthly support, things are tight. Luckily the field I went into has a high starting wage and a low unemployment rate (2% or less). I suppose I should've 'not had children' in your world.
I don't think lecturing people on the children they shouldn't have had is a solution. It's a right-wing talking point (blame the woman, tell her to keep her legs closed 'welfare queen having babies to get more money' blahblahblah). Also, my grandparents were poor. Really poor. Like haul water, do the washing in a bucket with a washboard, grow your own vegetables, cry about having to give your daughter hole-y shoes from her older brother, kids go barefoot in the summer, no plumbing or electricity kind of poor. In some ways they had it better than the poor of today. They weren't educated, but they knew how to do things - my grandmother knew how to knit winter wear out of old sweaters donated to the church. She could take donated clothing and alter it to fit the kids. My grandfather knew how to make leather boots from the leather from his cows. My grandmother grew, canned and preserved everything. They picked berries all summer. My grandfather knew how to build things and they had a 'family' sawmill in town, and he was able to build their furniture from the woods surrounding their farm. Poor people today don't have the knowledge, the land or the raw materials to take care of themselves. Where is someone in the downtown of a major city going to get land for a garden for free? Wood for furniture-making for free? The knowledge on how to preserve food, or how to make/alter clothing?
The poor of our grandparents is not the same thing as the poor of today. It's not fair for you to make that comparison, because it's not comparable. Also, while I understand the sentiment of not having more kids than you can support, people's circumstances change, besides...are you saying poor people don't have the right to a family? Is having a family a right or simply a privilege of wealth? Lots of questions for discussion, but I don't agree with "if you have kids when you're poor, you deserve what you get". What can we do about it? How about we figure out a way to reduce the gap between rich and poor? How about we work on ending or lessening poverty?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)You won't get a reply, but I'm glad you're representing so many of us so well.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)tooth, nail, and claw so they can assure themselves a permanent supply of economic slaves? THAT's the problem!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)raccoon
(31,119 posts)caused by ill-fitting dentures. Instead of, the people don't have the money for better dentures.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)almost 100% somewhere or other then that's an even more depressing thought.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)That girl laid some piles in her nappies that could melt steel.
I know, I had to change them.
And they were so bad at times, that if grizzle bears would have been downwind walking towards her, they would have turned and ran the other way, they were so bad.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I wonder what it does to them. I cant imagine that wallowing in your own excrement can be a very positive experience.
bananas
(27,509 posts)crim son
(27,464 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)to families who need them?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)children. I see this not only in mothers but also in fathers. My own mother had a nervous breakdown in the early 50s when my father went broke as a farmer and it was what she could not give her children that plagued her.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)but I'm sure it's not as dumb as it sounds.
I remember a study about the anxiety caused by choosing between necessities. I think it was in India, and one of the necessities was soap. I actually think about that study every time I buy soap.
Beacool
(30,251 posts)Money problems are oner of the biggest causes of stress for most people. I think that's the real source of the depression, rather than the lack of diapers per se.
The article also mentions why for some women the use of reusable diapers is not feasible.
"While cloth diapers may be less expensive than disposables, most child care centers require disposable diapers. In addition, cloth diapers may not be a practical option, especially for families that don't have a washer and dryer. Some laundromats don't permit washing diapers, and washing them by hand takes time, hot water, space for drying--and detergent, which can't be bought using WIC or food stamps."
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)dembotoz
(16,832 posts)the uproar of disposable diapers.....
yes we used disposable for all 3 boys--oh the humanity
lack of diapers is a sign of lack of resources.
not being able to provide your child with the stuff he she should have
makes you sad
being sad a lot makes you depressed
not rocket science here
as for the clothes line thing--prohibited in my lease
was then, still is. for years lived with no basement
just was not going to happen
I really do not see disposable diapers as a sign of a bad parent
or perhaps you folks believe that I am......
so call protective services-my youngest turns 18 in a couple of weeks
nolabels
(13,133 posts)The little folks don't have much say in it but the parents can learn just as well as those who they would wish to teach.
Toilet training
{Toilet training, or potty training, is the process of training a young child to use the toilet for urination and defecation, though training may start with a smaller toilet bowl-shaped device (often known as a potty). Cultural factors play a large part in what age is deemed appropriate, with the expectation for being potty trained ranging from 12 months for some tribes in Africa[1] to 36 months in the modern United States.} snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_training
Bette Noir
(3,581 posts)I had cloth diapers. I didn't have a washer and dryer. Every day, from the time my daughter was two weeks old, I'd put a sack of soiled diapers over one shoulder, with the baby and a diaper bag in the other arm, and schlep my Caesarian incision five blocks up and down hills (we lived in San Francisco) to the laundromat. There, I'd wash and dry the diapers while the baby screamed (she didn't want to spend her days in the laundromat, strapped into a chair). When they were done, I'd walk home again, and up three flights of spiral stairs to the room I rented in a friend's apartment.
It was hell; I spent my whole life washing diapers. It was almost a blessing when I fell on those spiral stairs, and sprained my ankle badly enough that I was housebound for a month. Since it was a big city, I could get diapers delivered from the grocery store, and I never looked back.
Whenever I hear some self-righteous git complain about the solid-waste-disposal problem caused by disposable diapers (usually men, always childless), I challenge them to wash diapers for a single mother. Not one has ever taken me up on the challenge.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I'll have to use it for those people who criticize.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,364 posts)Maybe an inability to buy diapers can lead to depression.
Or maybe depression can lead to an inability to buy diapers. Or anything else.
There are probably many right answers.
Food, housing, healthcare, other necessities. Our government has no problem giving those things, and more, to Haliburton execs and others. Why not to those of us less fortunate.
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)Poverty leads to stress, anxiety and a feeling of hopelessness.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)for every time I heard the sanctimonious screed, "Poor people have poor ways," I'd be rich!
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)The fact that poor people can't buy diapers has more to do with them feeling depressed than just not having enough clean diapers.
They don't have enough money for FOOD, for Christ's sake!!!
Quantess
(27,630 posts)It's like "There are no diapers in the diaper store. I am depressed because I have all this money burning a hole in my pocket, but the diaper store is all out of diapers."
Or, I know: "I am so depressed that I can't drag my ass out of bed to go get some diapers for baby."
Could it be... Mom is depressed because she doesn't have money for diapers?
Naaaah.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)many other important things that parents are expected to provide for their children. So the real issue, like you said, is living in poverty causes depression for many. Making it only about diapers is weird and only opens it for the silly debates about using cloth diapers (a reasonable suggestion, imo) However, I bet if those same parents all this sudden got a life time supply of diapers (but nothing else changed), they'd still suffer from depression because they'd still be living in poverty.